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Now, Biden's Attorney General Pick Faces Senate Questions at Confirmation Hearing; U.S. on Brink of 500,000 Lives Lost from COVID amid Critical Moment; Supreme Court Allows for Release of Trump Taxes to Prosecutors. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired February 22, 2021 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: A remarkable moment there as we continue to watch the confirmation. Merrick Garland, Judge Merrick Garland, you see right there, is President Biden's choice to be the next attorney general.
From Senator Booker, questions about disparate application of the law especially in communities of color in the United States, from Senator Cotton before that, questions about whether he would support the use of the death penalty.
Elie Honig is still with us, Laura Coates is still with us and Dana Bash is still with us. And, Dana, I want to start with personal and then we'll get to the policy at the end there.
Senator Booker essentially trying to explain where this comes from, explain where your sense of justice, your sense of anti-discrimination comes from. And as a 68-year-old man who has been a prosecutor and judge on the bench for 36 years choking up, talking about how his family escaped anti-Semitism and persecution. And he said it's the best use of my skills, best of my skills, to continue a nation of fairness, justice.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: To pay back the country that took in his grandparents and his family. Yes, that was a moment, no question about it, and it was a genuine moment.
And what Senator Booker was trying to do was to harness what we saw all summer, the anger, the protests, the demands for changes in the justice system from top to bottom to make it so that the disparities that he talked about would be changed. And now, there is a chance, more of a chance than before, to do that.
And so what Booker was doing was trying to get the likely soon-to-be attorney general to make that promise, that he wouldn't just pay lip service to it but make it part of his mission to change the laws that discriminate, intentionally or not, against people of color.
KING: And, Laura Coates, on that point, part of it is trying to change laws, but a lot of it, Judge Garland, soon to be General Garland, said it's the application. He says, where do you put your emphasis? Why are so many people charged with marijuana possession been thrown in jail, why don't we spend more of the money more of our focus, time and resources on violent crime?
That proof in the exchange there that elections very much do have consequences and with this new attorney general we expect a very different approach when it comes to issues of sentencing and racial equity under the law.
LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, what he was explaining was the idea that the dirty little secret that prosecutors are supposed to be human beings and humane. And that dirty little secret is that lady justice, she may have a blindfold on, but we know that there are, time and time again, that either, A, she is peeking, or she's able to see right through it.
And a lot of decisions that are made by prosecutors have very little to do with what the black and white issues are of the actual typography of those rules. It's about how the power is wielded. It refers back to his opening statement about how, at their best, prosecutors can be such an asset, but at their worst, if they're motivated by evil or some other mechanism or means, that they can be an injustice to society.
I think he is a testament to the need to restore not only this notion about what the integrity in justice mean in terms of being politically independent but also the idea that it was founded, and one thing we have talked about, it was founded in part to address the extraordinary inequities and extraordinary racism experienced by black Americans in this country and how far away from that vision it has come.
We're not so many months removed when an attorney general would not even admit that there was systemic racism. He was able to do it fluently as a judge, as somebody who knows about the death penalty, and the reasons why you got these (INAUDIBLE) exonerations and this disparate impact. He's confronting it heads on.
And there is a great deal of optimism and the morale of prosecutors who are both humane and acknowledging what the shortcomings of our justice system are. If he's going to address it head on, I think there is an immediate boost and morale and an immediate elevation of our country in that prospect of equal justice under the law.
KING: Right, and the decency of the man just comes through in every question and answer he takes there.
And, Elie Honig, just a reminder, as we listen to this throughout the day, this is one of the most complicated, the one of the most difficult jobs in the United States government. So many issues will cross the new attorney general's desk. And in the exchange with Senator Cotton, Senator Cotton noting when Merrick Garland was a prosecutor in the Oklahoma City case, he supported the death penalty for Timothy McVeigh. Judge Garland says, in the 20 years his position has evolved and he's not so sure about the death penalty anymore.
And he also knows that he does have a boss, the president. He's not the president's lawyer but he does have to implement Biden administration policy. And there was an exchange there, Senator Cotton was trying to get him to commit to continuing to support the federal death penalty, and soon-to-be Attorney General Garland was saying, number one, he said he has personal reservations, and number two, he does have a boss when it comes to policy.
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, John, it was such an interesting exchange because Merrick Garland's end position where he prosecuted the case that resulted in the execution, rightful execution of Timothy McVeigh.
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Yet, look, it's fair game. We should want prosecutors so say, I've evolved overtime. I've reconsidered, I'm open to thinking about the sort of the broader implications of something, like the death penalty. How is it applied? Is it applied fairly?
And I also thought it was such a remarkable moment, and Merrick Garland sort of talked about his own commitment the Justice Department based on his family's experience. That really hit home for me and I'm sure for Laura as well, because those of us who are Justice Department alums, look, we care about DOJ because, sure, it's a great job, but because it means more. It's sort of the best of our government and what our government does and stands for. And so I thought that was really a compelling moment to watch Merrick Garland express that.
KING: Elie Honig, Dana Bash, Laura Coates, I appreciate your insights, as we continue to dip into the hearing, the confirmation of Merrick Garland to be the attorney general.
And thanks for your time today on Inside Politics. We're going to have a lot of reports. We'll stay with that hearing. Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I am Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world.
Today, we are a nation suffering an unfathomable loss. Almost a half million Americans have died from the coronavirus, almost 500,000 lives. And it is, unfortunately, a uniquely American cost that has been paid in this pandemic. It's more than any other country on earth. It is the number of people that could fill six of the NFL's largest football stadiums in New Jersey. It's roughly the population of Atlanta or Kansas City or Sacramento or Miami. It is 100,000 more than the population of Tampa or New Orleans.
It took the U.S. five months to reach 100,000 deaths, then another four months to reach 200,000 deaths. But since November, we lost 100,000 people a month for three months in a row.
Those are the official numbers. They do not fully communicate the loss and the grief of our fellow Americans. They are but a small window into the pain of our country.
A cemetery worker profiled by The Washington Post a week and a half ago says, quote, they, quote, can't get the graves dug fast enough. In January, he said he knew the graves that he was digging were from Christmas when he says, no one paid attention to guidelines and gathered together.
A coroner who explained how to notify families that their loved one is gone says, coroners have to, quote, hit them between the eyes with the news (ph) to start the grieving process.
In one chilling detail about a mortuary, The Post describes six empty hooks were keys for the hearses and vans usually hang. The venue says it turned down three families whose loved ones died over one weekend, something it has never had to do before.
And then there are those on frontlines who stand between life and death, the doctors, the nurses, the hospital workers.
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EMILY BOWMAN, NURSE, HUTCHINSON REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: We've had a lot of people who have passed away, and it's hard to see, and a lot of them are, you know, aware, and they know they're not going to get out of here alive.
JENNY GLAZER, NURSE, RUSH UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: When they pass, they're wiping them down and putting them in the body bag. It's, you know, it's gutting, almost. And like I said, afterwards you zip them up, they go out and you're on to the next.
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KEILAR: In many cases, hospital staff and family members recall the fear of their patients or loved ones struggling with COVID.
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TEMI JULIANNA JIMENEZ SESMA, CORONAVIRUS SURVIVOR: I told my mom, do not be afraid for the Lord is with us. I love you and may God bless you. Keep strong for me, mom. And all she answered me was, yes, mija. Yes, mija, with that voice with fear.
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KEILAR: Another matriarch of a family, May Bunjes, one of her daughters was with her when she died, but her husband and other daughter never got the chance.
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JEANETTE STRUMPF, LOST MOTHER TO COVID-19: She was scared. She said, 00 she called me Nettie. She said, Nettie, am I going to die? And I said, mom, you know, you're like this fighter, you defy the odds all the time, and you're not going to die.
JAIME BUNJES, LOST MOTHER TO COVID-19: It's horrible to sit there and watch my mom gasp for air as she was dying, and when they took out that tube, it's horrible. And we couldn't do anything for her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What were your last words to me?
FREDERICK BUNJES, LOST WIFE TO COVID-19: I love you. I want us to come home, but it never happened.
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KEILAR: An ICU nurse in Oklahoma lost her mother and then three days later her husband to the virus.
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LIZANNE JENNINGS, LOST HUSBAND AND MOTHER TO COVID THREE DAYS APART: This is so raw.
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Sometimes I'm grieving for my husband and then I realize my mom is gone, that I'm grieving for my mom. And I just think, I'm going to go tell Dennis and then Dennis is gone, and so the two people that would have been so supportive that the other one is gone, they're both gone.
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KEILAR: Among the almost 500,000 lost, younger Americans who leave their young families behind. Zarina Rose, a 42-year-old nurse, got COVID and died after giving birth. Her husband, Nick, shared a message for her.
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NICK ROSE, LOST WIFE TO COVID-19: I could tell her anything. I said, babe, I love you so much. I know that the Lord has you, but I got this. I'll take care of the family.
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KEILAR: Another young mother died from COVID after giving birth to a healthy baby boy. Doctors induced Erica Becerra when her condition deteriorated and her brother, Michael, described her last moments.
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MICHAEL AVILEZ, LOST SISTER TO COVID-19: The last moments, she was tearing. I know she heard us. We prayed for her. We comforted her until the last moments.
She was like, mom, I don't feel good. I don't feel like myself. It's hard to breathe. The weekend came along. The doctors saw that she wasn't getting any better and they gave birth to her son. She had a normal labor. She gave birth to her son but didn't get to hold him, because right after she gave birth, that's when they put the tube in.
And then from there, you know, she just started declining. All me and my sister wanted was the best for everybody. And she cared about lives. She didn't deserve to go through what she went through. God needed her more than we did. And with open arms we gave her to God last night.
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KEILAR: Even as a nation where many have become numb, this astronomical loss, I know that these stories of our fellow Americans puncture that armor that is natural to have accumulated over the past year, and that's okay. We need to remember the people that we have lost even if we didn't know them personally. I know it is hard. I hear it from so many of you. I know you're tired, I know you're tapped out. It has been more than a year since the first reported coronavirus case.
The quarantining, the hoping that this would subside only to realize that it wouldn't any time soon, the struggling to make ends meet, the worrying that if this is the day you might spike a fever or start to cough, the juggling your job while you're home-schooling your kids, being afraid to see your grandparents, being afraid to see your grandkids, knowing that there is a vaccine that you or your loved ones can't yet get, struggling with mental health, and for almost 500,000 Americans this past year losing their lives, this is a collective loss.
We're taking this moment to acknowledge that. You are not alone. And if you are lucky enough to still have a little fuel in your tank today, it is a good day to remind someone in your life that you are there for them.
And just a reminder that you can join CNN tonight. We are going to be honoring the lives of Americans who were lost to coronavirus. Jake Tapper will be hosting this. It's called, We Remember 500,000, A National Memorial Service for COVID-19, at 11:00 P.M. Eastern.
We're back in a moment.
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KEILAR: We are following breaking news. A major legal loss for Donald Trump that paves the way for prosecutors to get the inside look at his finances. The Supreme Court says Trump's tax returns should be released not to the public, but to New York City prosecutors who have had to persevere for more than a year of legal wrangling to get them.
The Supreme Court cleared the way for the Manhattan D.A. to receive Donald Trump's taxes. These are from 2011 to 2020. The D.A. is seeking them in relation to case over hush payments made to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal. Daniels and McDougal claimed to have had extramarital affairs with Trump before he was in office, allegations that Trump which he has denied.
CNN Supreme Court Reporter Ariane de Vogue is with us now in this story. What does this ruling mean, Ariane? What does this ruling mean for the former president? Is this going ahead to a grand jury?
ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Well, this is a massive loss for President Trump. The Supreme Court has cleared the way for the release of these tax returns to the New York prosecutor. They won't be made publicly available because they're subject to grand jury rules, but the Supreme Court, in just one sentence, allowed this to go forward. And interestingly enough, there were no noted dissents here.
The documents, as you said, are several years of documents from his longtime accounting firm, and they are including these tax returns. And as you said, the original part of the investigation had to do with these alleged hush money payments.
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Keep in mind, it was last term that the Supreme Court 7-2 did rule against Trump's broad claims of immunity, but then they sent the case back to the lower court so that Trump could make more arguments about it. The lower courts again ruled against the president. It came back to the Supreme Court and the court acted today.
This is a major victory for Cy Vance now, because he will be able to now continue with his investigation. And we talked about how it had to do with alleged hush money payments, but there is some indication that they could also be looking into tax issues or insurance fraud, so this is exactly what he wanted, and the Supreme Court today is dealing this big loss to former President Trump.
KEILAR: All right, big implications here. Ariane, thank you for that report.
I want to bring in CNN Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger and CNN Legal Analyst Carrie Cordero to talk with us about this.
Carrie, what do you think this ruling could lead to?
CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, what it really does, Brianna, is it enables the New York D.A. to be able to conduct their investigation. The former president fought this as much as he could throughout the courts, as Ariane reported, and so now they actually will be able to obtain the records, the New York D.A. will be able to obtain the records they sought in the course of their investigation and then they'll review them.
I don't want to get too far ahead of the facts. This doesn't necessarily mean that Donald Trump will be prosecuted. It doesn't necessarily mean that people will see him going to jail. All it means is that the New York D.A. can do their job, they can review the tax records that he has tried to prevent them from seeing, and they can conduct the investigation to their satisfaction.
KEILAR: We have to note, Gloria, that for years, former President Trump fought having these tax returns made public.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, he did --
KEILAR: Not just public, being revealed to prosecutors, I should say. These will not be made public, just to be clear. BORGER: Well, if you really want to wind back the clock, remember during the campaign he said, oh, sure, I'd be happy to release my taxes but I'm under audit and I can't release my taxes. Well, of course, he could release his taxes if he were under audit. We're not sure if that's true or false, he just didn't want to. Then we have The New York Times reporting that for ten years or so, Donald Trump paid no taxes, and for 2016 and 2017, he paid $750 a year in taxes. And then you have what Carrie is talking about, which is this question raised by Michael Cohen, his former lawyer, in testimony that perhaps the president and the Trump organization is guilty of tax and insurance fraud, which may indeed be what they're looking at.
And so, you know, it opens a Pandora's Box for the president. He wanted to keep it shut, but he can't, and so he'll complain about the Supreme Court again.
KEILAR: And, you know, the Supreme Court issued this ruling, Carrie, without comment or noted dissent. What does that say to you?
CORDERO: Well, it means that it was straightforward for the court. They didn't feel the need to write an opinion. There were not members of the court who disagreed. It shows the unanimity amongst the court members. And so this is the final decision of that court, and the New York D.A. will now have access these records, and so it means that they'll be able to look at whatever they think might be in those records. But then also once they have the records, if that does lead to evidence of potential other avenues of investigation, other potential violations that they might see, they will have that information available to them.
KEILAR: And, you know, it's interesting to note, Gloria, and we've seen reporting even though we had not been privy to Donald Trump's tax returns, we had known from The New York Times what was in his tax information, I guess, you could say, in some tax documents. We also know from The New York Times that his family had a practice of kind of fudging reporting values on things. There is a long history of things that would probably not pass the smell test if it came to very close scrutiny of, you know, a prosecutor.
BORGER: Well, Donald Trump is in real estate in New York, and so that, in and of itself, you have to kind of look at that closely. And I think that, you know, he gets a lot of tax breaks that you and I would not get as somebody in that business. So they'll surely take a close look at that.
And what Donald Trump is going to say, maybe, as he goes to the conservative group and speaks is that he is being persecuted by the Supreme Court which, by the way, did not accommodate the big lie for him, so he's upset about that already, and at this point is handing over documents that he doesn't want to hand to a Democrat.
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So he's got a lot he's going to be upset about, and, you know, he's going to try to use this politically and say they're just out to get me, there's nothing there, I would have released it, you'll all find out I'm not guilty of anything, and it will give him one more complaint to take to his supporters.
KEILAR: Gloria, thank you so much. Carrie, thank you so much for breaking this now with us. We appreciate it.
Senators are grilling President Biden's pick for attorney general. What Merrick Garland said about the Capitol insurrection, prosecuting the Trump administration and the politicization of the Justice Department.
Plus, one of the president's other nominations is on the brink of collapse as more Republican senators join a Democratic senator in opposition of his pick for budget director.
And airlines grounding some Boeing jets after a terrifying incident on a United Flight where airplane debris rained down on a suburb. We'll show you what went wrong.
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