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Trump Responds to Supreme Court Decision; Merrick Garland Confirmation Hearing Begins Today; Oath Keepers Member Alleges She Had VIP Pass January 6th. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 22, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Today, Cohen is saying this, quote, "The Supreme Court has now proclaimed that no one is above the law. Trump will, for the first time, have to take responsibility for his own dirty deeds."

Let's turn now to Tristan Snell, who's former New York assistant attorney general. He helped lead the prosecution of Trump University. And we're also joined by CNN contributor John Dean, who was White House Counsel to President Nixon and testified against him in the Watergate investigation.

Tristan, first to you. What can prosecutors do with this information?

TRISTAN SNELL, FORMER NEW YORK ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, part of the key here though is that it's not about the taxes, it's about all the stuff that comes with the taxes, specifically the bank records. "The New York Times" already got their hands on the taxes, we already know a lot about that. But the bank records are really going to tell exactly where money came in, and where it went out.

So it's -- and it's not just about the hush money, it's also about the other things that might be revealed as prosecutors go through all of these bank records, these financial records. It's all the backups that accountants used to create the tax returns, that's the key here.

KEILAR: The backups? What do you mean?

SNELL: Yes, the receipts. You know, in the lingo of today, it's like, you know, are there -- where are the receipts? Well the receipts, in this case, are all of the bank records that any accountant uses to make the taxes.

So we're talking about the Trump organization, the several hundred LLCs that are affiliated with the Trump organization, and all of their financial records, monthly bank statements, checking accounts, savings accounts, investment accounts, credit cards for all of those different entities.

KEILAR: You know, John, Donald Trump for years fought having this information made public, despite sort of promising it initially. What does that tell you -- and certainly as we listen to what Tristan says about what all this will unveil, we get a sense of it, but -- what does that tell you about why Donald Trump wanted to keep this secret?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think politically he knows it might not be good for him to have this information out. One, he may not be nearly as rich as he claims to have been, we don't know that --

SNELL: Yes.

DEAN: -- the other thing is, this all started with the Michael Cohen testimony about his paying off Stormy Daniels. And the question is, did he take that as a tax deduction when it was really campaign money that was --

SNELL: That's right.

DEAN: -- supplied -- that's what Cohen got in trouble for, is making a contribution at the wrong time under the law. So did Trump turn around and repay Cohen with tax-deductible payments? That's one of the -- that's where it started. It's gone -- as the prosecutor, as Vance has said, it's gone beyond that in their inquiry now, so Trump has much more jeopardy.

KEILAR: And you know, Tristan, this -- as you mentioned, this has to do with the hush money payments, but it's really a Pandora's box.

SNELL: Yes, absolutely. It is absolutely a huge can of worms, Pandora's box, whatever metaphor you want to use. This is a big, big problem. So once all of that stuff is now out there and it's going to be in the hands of Vance and his prosecutors and his investigators, who knows what they're going to find. They're talking terabytes of data here, this is a lot of information.

Now, let's -- for everybody to understand, watching this at home, this is not going to go quickly. It takes a long time to review that much information and, you know, we think of these government offices as being omnipotent? They're not. They're just people and they have a team. And as much -- as many resources as they're throwing at this, it's going to take them a while to get through all of this stuff.

But this is a huge treasure trove of information. And the key here is, you know, other things with the taxes, did he lie to New York City and State tax authorities about the value of his properties so that he would have to pay less on them, while then simultaneously going to Deutsche Bank and these other banks and saying the properties were worth so much more so that he could get more credit given to him on that, he could take out more debt? That's going to be a key inquiry here as well.

KEILAR: John, that was a practice documented of his family of devaluing real estate to pay less in taxes. That seems something that has been at least a practice that Donald Trump would have learned as a younger businessman. If that is the case, I mean, how bad is that for Donald Trump if prosecutors can prove that?

DEAN: Well, we know he's beyond the statute of limitations in a lot of this. That big story "The New York Times" had, devastating story that tracked the family's tax cheating for decades and how they accumulated wealth and passed it on throughout the family without any tax consequences, clearly cheating to get ahead.

So politically, that's never good. He was able to brush that story off. But if he's looking at criminal liability for more recent behavior, behavior that was very consistent with family practice, he could be in trouble now. If he's got a felony hanging over him, that doesn't make his as attractive a political candidate in the future. So there are real life implications for this case and this proceeding.

[14:05:22]

KEILAR: As we've been having this conversation, a statement has come now from Donald Trump about this. So this is just in. I want to read this, I'm going to read this in part. There's -- the top of it just reads like a Twitter rant, so I'm going to kind of get to about a paragraph into it.

It says, "So now, for more than two years, New York City has been looking at almost every transaction I've ever done including seeking tax returns, which were done by among the biggest and most prestigious law and accounting firms in the U.S., the Tea Party was treated far better by the IRS than Donald Trump.

"The Supreme Court never should have let this fishing expedition happen, but they did. This is something which has never happened to a president before. It is all Democrat-inspired in a totally Democrat location, New York City and State, completely controlled and dominated by a heavily reported enemy of mine, Governor Andrew Cuomo.

"These are attacks by Democrats willing to do anything to stop the almost 75 million people -- the most votes by far ever gotten by a sitting president who voted for me in the election, an election which many people and experts feel that I won. I agree."

Just a fact-check there, that's not true.

Going on here, "The new phenomenon of headhunting prosecutors and A.G.s who try to take down their political opponents using the law as a weapon is a threat to the very foundation of our liberty. That's what is done in third-world countries.

"Even worse are those who run for prosecutorial or attorney general offices in far-left states and jurisdictions, pledging to take out a political opponent. That's fascism, not justice and that is exactly what they are trying to do with respect to me except that the people of our country won't stand for it."

"In the meantime," Trump says here, "murders and violent crime are up in New York City by record numbers and nothing is done about it. Our elected officials don't care, all they focus on is the persecution of President Donald J. Trump. I will fight on, just as I have for the last five years (even before I was successfully elected)" -- that part in parenthesis -- "despite all of the election crimes that were committed against me, we will win."

Where to start? Where to start here, Tristan?

(LAUGHTER)

But let's say this is where I will start. Which is, he's blaming New York but this is a Supreme Court decision, which -- and this must sting for Donald Trump -- includes three of his --

SNELL: Three, three.

KEILAR: -- appointees --

SNELL: Count them.

KEILAR: -- nominees.

SNELL: This sounds exactly like what he said -- he went on Twitter to rant about the Trump University case when we first filed it against him in 2013. He said all the same stuff. He's literally just repeating himself, except now he's not limited to 280 characters any more.

So before, you know, he'd have to do like two tweets in a row, and I think it reined him in a little bit. That was a super-long statement. Now he doesn't have a word limit any more, character limit. He can just go on and on and on. I feel bad for you, having to read it.

KEILAR: Well, I do think brevity was his friend before because it sort of focused his messaging, I will certainly agree with you --

SNELL: Yes, come on!

KEILAR: -- on that.

SNELL: Yes, he needs to hire an editor.

KEILAR: John, what is -- what is your reaction, John, to this statement?

DEAN: Well, I think he's actually been lucky. His reaction is kind of delayed. This case was really decided in July by a seven-to-two vote where the Supreme Court said, as president, he is not immune from a state prosecutor and a state grand jury seeking his records. This all is from a body of law that was created by Nixon during Watergate, and just following up on that.

He had the right under that July decision to appeal the breadth and any other particulars about the case, which he did, and lost in two lower federal courts before it went back to the Supreme Court.

They sat on it for almost four months, to issue a 16-word sentence that said we're not interested in this case --

SNELL: Yes.

DEAN: -- it's over. They gave him a break during the election, because this could have come up pre-election, and created a problem for him --

SNELL: That's right. DEAN: So they were -- that helped everybody, to have it not a

political issue during the election.

KEILAR: Tristan and John, I appreciate both of you and what timing, so that we got this statement and we could discuss it as well. Tristan and John Dean.

John Dean, you're going to stick around for me, if you will --

DEAN: Thank you.

KEILAR: We're also following breaking news on Capitol Hill, President Biden's nominee for attorney general is facing day one of his confirmation hearing. And so far, Judge Merrick Garland says his first priority will be the investigation into the January 6th insurrection, calling it the most heinous attack on the democratic process.

[14:10:01]

Judge Garland has also vowed to keep politics out of the Department of Justice and that if confirmed, he would be there to serve the American people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): If the president's interests and the public's interest are in conflict, which interest does the attorney general represent?

JUDGE MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: The attorney general represents the public interest, particularly and specifically as defined by the Constitution and the statutes of the United States.

FEINSTEIN: Do you believe that the president has the authority to order the attorney general to open or close an investigation or a prosecution?

GARLAND: This is a hard question of constitutional law, but I do not expect it to be a question for me. As I said to you, the president has promised that those decisions will only be made by the attorney general and that is what I plan to do. I do not plan to be interfered with by anyone. I expect the Justice Department will make its own decisions in this regard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: John Dean, still here with us, and we're joined now by CNN political director David Chalian. John, what did you think of Merrick Garland's answer?

DEAN: I thought it was terrific, it was consistent with his opening statement, which framed his whole view of the Department of Justice and his role as attorney general in very realistic and historical terms. He is a graduate, if you will, of the department.

He came up as a young lawyer through the department, he knows it both at the line prosecutor level, at the middle level of management, at the deputy attorney general's office. He was there when the -- some of the divisions were created, so he knows his way and knows what the department can and can't do, what it should and should not do.

So I think this is a breath of fresh air for this department, which has been battered severely during the last four years, and I'm sure the attorneys there feel much relieved about their new attorney general.

KEILAR: And, David, this was -- I mean, this was a pretty low-key hearing. But he got emotional at one point during the hearing, let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARLAND: I come from a family where my grandparents fled anti- Semitism and persecution. The country took us in, and protected us. And I feel an obligation to the country to pay back. And this is the highest, best use of my own set of skills to pay back. And so I want very much to be the kind of attorney general that you're saying I could become. I'll do my best to try and be that kind of attorney general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: It was a really moving moment, David. But I also think, considering as he's talking about prosecuting, you know, and investigating January 6th, it speaks to what must be a priority that's very personal to him, of fighting against white supremacy and bigotry.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. I mean, this was in response to a question from Senator Cory Booker, the Democrat of New Jersey, who was asking him to say if there's anything in his personal life and experience that speaks to this desire to really oversee a Justice Department that is serving justice for all, including those that have been historically not well served by the Justice Department of by law enforcement.

And this was his answer. It gets to the heart of the man. It also gets at his humility at the mission before him. And as you said, he said prosecuting those January 6th related cases is going to be the top priority for him, going in here. And I think that's intertwined into exactly what you just heard in that very emotional response to that question.

KEILAR: David, what did you think when you heard Republicans lecturing about the politicization of the Department of Justice after the last four years?

CHALIAN: You know, I think several Republicans were trying to bait Garland into getting into the political back-and-forth on certain issues, right? Whether it was the Russia investigation, and how that was initiated, or -- and he just was not going there at all.

What Josh Hawley of Missouri tried to get him on whether he supports defunding the police, and he was like, you know that President Biden doesn't support that, and neither do I. He's not going to give them sort of the political sound bite they were looking for.

And obviously, listen, hypocrisy exists on both sides of the aisle in Washington all the time, we see this. We went through four years of a heavily politicized Justice Department. Merrick Garland, I think, is actually winning over some Republican votes for his confirmation, Brianna, by asserting, time and again, that his mission is to make sure that the Department of Justice is independent of politics.

[14:15:16]

Not policy, not Joe Biden, Democratic presidents' preferred policies that he will have to sort of get right with the law and make sure that the Biden administration policies are legal. But politics is not going to have an influence on how he conducts himself as attorney general, and I think some Republicans -- you heard from Lindsey Graham and others -- who seem inclined to vote for him at this point.

KEILAR: And you know, John, I wonder because he is a sitting judge, there are many questions that he just wasn't able to answer, which isn't surprising, but it did allow him to avoid commenting on some things -- on his predecessors, for instance. Is that going to cost him any votes do you think, kind of not being able to talk about those things?

DEAN: I don't think it should. As you know, as any observer of Washington and confirmation proceedings understands, if you've seen it a few times, it's a gotcha game. They try to bait witnesses to say things they wish they hadn't said, or that they might want to take back later.

And that was throughout the day, that's what's been the nature of many of these hearings. It's also a chance for members of the committee to lay out their laundry list of favorite projects, and talk about them and hopefully get some commitment from the new attorney general, they'll follow up on.

So these are vulnerable moments for the nominee, and he's handling it -- he's seasoned, he knows how to handle it, he's handling it very effectively and he's not committing to anything he doesn't want to commit to. He's -- you know, after 24 years on the bench, he's been in a lot of situations and he's not going to get boxed in in a confirmation hearing at this stage.

KEILAR: John Dean, David Chalian, thank you so much to both of you.

CHALIAN: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: Next, a Capitol Hill Police officer speaking out for the first time on the mob that he faced during last month's insurrection. Plus, and extremist group leader, arrested in the riots, now claims she was given a VIP pass to the pro-Trump rally and met with Secret Service agents before it all went down.

And more fallout from the big election lie? The CEO of My Pillow is the latest to face a defamation lawsuit from Dominion Voting Systems.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:55]

KEILAR: A leader in an alleged Oath Keepers conspiracy in the Capitol insurrection claims she was given a VIP pass to the pro-Trump rally on January 6th. She says she met with Secret Service agents, and was providing security for legislators and others in their march to the Capitol, according to a new court filing.

Jessica Watkins is one of nine Oath Keepers, members of the far-right militia, to be charged with conspiracy in connection with the attack on the Capitol. CNN's Whitney Wild has been looking into some of these details. Whitney, what is she claiming here through her lawyer?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, through her lawyer, she's basically trying to get out of custody. And so what her defense attorney is doing is trying to tell the judge she was not there to cause any problems, she was not there to cause violence. She was so legitimate, in fact, she was part of the security apparatus of the day, providing security for legislators in fact, meeting with Secret Service agents.

Here's a clip from her filing here, in which she says that on January 5th and 6th, she was, again, preparing for the security apparatus of the day.

"Ms. Watkins was not present as an insurrectionist, but to provide security to the speakers at the rally, to provide escort for the legislators and others to march to the Capitol." This statement goes on to say that that was at the direction by the then-president, and she was also there "to safely escort protestors away from the Capitol to their vehicles and cars at the conclusion of the protest."

The really critical part of this statement is when the defense attorney alleges that "She was given a VIP pass to the rally," and "she met with Secret Service agents. She was within 50 feet of the stage during the rally to provide security for the speakers."

The most important thing here, Brianna, is that this is the allegation from the defense attorney. The Secret Service is vehemently denying that this happened in the way that the defense attorney is describing it. The Secret Service told CNN Sunday that they relied on government partners to provide security for the day, and any indication that the Secret Service was contracting with a private security or private citizens to perform those functions is absolutely false.

Again , the Secret Service, saying that they were relying on government partners, as they always do, to shore up security of the day. But, Brianna, it is a wild accusation and something that we are trying to learn a lot more about. But again, the bottom line here, the Secret Service says that this is just not true.

KEILAR: Very interesting. Whitney, thank you for that report, live for us here in Washington.

And we're also hearing from Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn, who is breaking his silence on the terrifying moments he endured as the mob stormed the Capitol. Dunn told ABC News that the rioters yelled racial slurs, and that he feared for his life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRY DUNN, OFFICER, CAPITOL POLICE: We fought with these people who were prepared for a fight. They had on gas masks, they had on body armor, they had on two-way radios, they had on tactical gear, bulletproof vests. They were ready to go.

PIERRE THOMAS, ABC NEWS CHIEF JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: When you see that level of preparedness, did that surprise you, did it scare you?

[14:25:02]

DUNN: I was scared, I was absolutely scared. I'm on this platform -- I'm a big guy, I'm six-foot-seven, I'm this giant person -- and we had our guns out, and I'm thinking, all these people out there, they're armed, too. And I'm like, I'm going to get shot, they're going to take me out.

I remember at one point, I said, how is this going to end? I said we've got dozens of officers down, we got dozens of officers down. And you got the nerve to be holding the Blue Lives Matter flag? I thought they were going to have a moment where they came to and they realized, like, yo, what are we doing?

But like they instantly snapped out of it, and they said, no, we're doing this for you, we're doing this for you. And as one of the guys kept walking by, the other one pulled out his badge, and said, trust me, I understand, we're doing this for you, buddy. And he's got a badge, he shows me his badge.

THOMAS: What did you think? A fellow officer's in the building (ph) --

(CROSSTALK)

DUNN: You've got to be kidding me, you've got to be kidding me.

I sat down with a good friend mine. I said, is this America? What the hell just happened? And I told him, I got called a (INAUDIBLE) a couple dozen times today, protecting this building. Is this America?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: More than 200 people have now been charged in connection with the Capitol riot.

Next, dozens of jets are being pulled out of service after a near- disaster on a United flight. We're going to show you how that engine caught fire and sent debris flying into a neighborhood below.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00]