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Trump's DOJ Declined Criminal Ethics Probe into Elaine Chao; Trump Investigators Focusing on His Longtime Finance Chief; Cuomo Accused of Sexual Harassment After Speaking Out Against It for Years. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired March 04, 2021 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We now know that the Justice Department declined to pursue the investigation into Chao in the final weeks of the Trump administer.
Reminder, of course, Chao's husband is Republican Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, who in late 2020, was the most powerful man in the Senate.
Joining me now, former deputy assistant attorney general, Harry Litman. He is also a legal affairs columnist for the "Los Angeles Times." He's the host as well of "The Talking Fed's" podcast.
Harry, the Justice Department said there may be, quote, ethical and/or administrative issues to address but there was not predication to open a criminal investigation."
Do you agree with that?
HARRY LITMAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We don't know. We don't know what the investigation showed. It's a 44-page I.G. report.
She's clearly used her office for private gain. It was wrong. And you can fit it into a criminal violation. No doubt about it.
But you can do that to many cases. And the overall violations were pretty small.
It's not unreasonable, if you would predict knowing nothing else, you would say, maybe this would be a fair declination. It's a judgment call.
The problem, of course, is what you underscored. It's when Mitch McConnell is presiding over the impeachment trial and, in a normal, healthy, functioning Department of Justice playing by the rules, that fact wouldn't influence things, because the White House wouldn't be making the calls.
After four years in which those norms and rules were completely trammeled, you cannot have the same degree of confidence.
And that sort of shows the whole fallout from the politicization of the department that the Trump White House perpetrated over its whole time in office.
KEILAR: And Chao declined to respond to questions as part of the investigation.
But the Transportation Department's general counsel provided a memo. And this was in September.
And it reads, in part, "Anyone familiar with Asian culture knows it is a poor value in Asian communities to express honor and filial respect towards one's parents. "And this ingrained value of love, respect and filial piety always takes precedence over self-promotion and self- aggrandizement."
"As the eldest daughter, she's expected to assume a leadership role in family occasions and honor her father and her late mother."
That may be true, Harry. I don't you have on here as a cultural expert.
LITMAN: Right.
KEILAR: But in terms of a legal excuse, what do you make of it?
LITMAN: Yes. I'm not her lawyer, but what a terrible defense. She basically plays an Asian-culture card, to explain why she did it. But it doesn't make it any less the use of her public office for private gain.
She's just saying, you just don't understand our culture. Well, she doesn't bring those cultural norms when she swears an oath to the Constitution, and to faithfully serve the public.
So it's really not just irrelevant but kind of an offensive excuse, I would say.
The whole thing does stink. Does it stink to criminal levels? Normally, you would give the Justice Department the benefit of the doubt because you know how it works, apart from a few grumbles.
This is -- this is exactly what the problem is with the Trump politicization of the department over several years. You can't know what really happened.
Did somebody from the White House call up and say, are you crazy, we're not going to do an investigation of Elaine Chao during an impeachment trial.
We do not know.
KEILAR: Yes. No one's saying she cannot adhere to values she holds dear but she could use her own personal funds to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
LITMAN: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Harry --
LITMAN: Yes.
KEILAR: Harry thank you so much. It's great to see you.
LITMAN: Thank you, Brianna. Same here.
KEILAR: Next, New York prosecutors are reportedly zeroing in on Trump's former money man. We'll have details on just how critical he could be to a potential case against the former president.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:38:01]
KEILAR: The "New York Times" is now reporting that Manhattan prosecutors are focusing on Trump's top money man, Allen Weisselberg, who for more than two decades served at the Trump Organization's financial gatekeeper for years.
I want to talk about this with Tim O'Brien. He is executive editor at "Bloomberg View" and also the author of "Trump Nation: The Art of Being Donald." And he's the former senior adviser for the Michael Bloomberg presidential campaign.
Tim, put this into perspective. How central is Allen Weisselberg to the former president's business dealings?
TIM O'BRIEN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "BLOOMBERG VIEW" & FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, MICHAEL BLOOMBERG PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN & AUTHOR: As central as anyone can be, Brianna. He grew up in the Trump Organization. Donald Trump's father, Fred Trump, hired Allen in the 1970s to become sort of the chief accountant for Fred Trump's company.
He and Donald are the same age. They grew up together in the company. And -- Donald Trump eventually made Allen his chief financial officer.
He knows where all the financial bodies are buried. There wasn't a deal that went through the Trump Organization that Allen Weisselberg didn't sign off on.
In that regard, he was much more crucial to the president's thinking than any of his children were, and really almost any other adviser in the organization.
And he set up a lot of the LLCs that the Trump Organization used to make payments. One of those was -- involved payments to Stormy Daniels that got Trump in hot water.
But they have hundreds of these shell companies that they've used to orchestrate deals, to hold debt, et cetera, et cetera. And he knows where the money is.
And in the midst of a financial fraud investigation, that means he's as about an existential a threat to the president as he could be.
KEILAR: You've compared him to Al Capone's accountant, just to be clear. We should also be clear about this. Weisselberg has not been accused of wrongdoing.
[14:40:04]
But if there was manipulation, and he was privy or participated in that, which you certainly, it sounds like, would expect that he would have, how likely would it be for him to cooperate with the investigation, and how significant would that be?
O'BRIEN: Well that question -- that's the, you know, billion-dollar question, Brianna, is, will he cooperate?
It is a classic prosecutorial tactic to begin squeezing people at the bottom of the ladder in order to get to the top. And if you get to Allen Weisselberg and he flips, then you get to Donald Trump.
I would suspect that there's more than just an interest in speaking to Allen Weisselberg here. He's a cog in a machine.
The reason of comparison to Al Capone is relevant is prosecutors spent years trying to get Al Capone for murder. They couldn't. They tried to get him for a number of other crimes. They couldn't.
They ended up getting him for accounting fraud. And that was essentially what opened up the fissure in the dike that led to Capone's imprisonment.
The Trump Organization is not a super-sophisticated organization. I went there once when I was working on my book. At the time, they were telling the Trump's assets were worth $6 million. My sources were telling me they were worth well less than $1 billion.
I sat in a conference room with Allen Weisselberg. He has a yellow legal pad in which he was tallying up the value of all of Trump's assets to try to get to $6 billion. And when he finished, it only added up to $5 billion.
And I said, Allen, there's a billion missing here. And he said, all right, let me go back to my office and find that other billion. And then he never came back.
They are street smart. They have historically been loyal to one another. But they are not sophisticated.
And if Allen Weisselberg's loyalty to Donald Trump evaporates, then you're going to see a series of other people possibly start to cooperate. And that could get -- that could put a lot of pressure on Trump and his children.
KEILAR: Very interesting. This is just the beginning here. Tim O'Brien, thank you so much.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Brianna.
KEILAR: Next, Governor Cuomo says that he won't resign in the wake of three sexual harassment allegations. We'll roll the tape on what he's had to say about the issue when other people were in the hot seat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:46:43]
KEILAR: New York Governor Andrew Cuomo says he will not resign in the wake of three allegations by three different women.
Two former female aides allege that Cuomo harassed them. And a third woman claiming the governor made unwanted advances.
The latest accusation is from a woman named Anna Ruch, who met Cuomo at a wedding reception in 2019. Ruch says he put his hands on her bare lower back, which she says she physically removed. And then she says he put his hands on her face and asked if he could kiss her.
The newspaper also reported that Ruch says she was later told by a friend that Cuomo had kissed her cheek as she pulled away. According to the "Times," her account is backed up by a friend through text messages and photos.
CNN has not verified Ruch's allegations against New York's governor and Ruch did not respond to CNN's request for comment.
Here's how the governor explained that photo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): It is my usual and customary way of greeting. I did not intend it. I didn't mean it that way. But if that's how they felt, that's all that matters, and I apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: This is a dramatic turn of events involving a governor who has staked much of his political career on being a proponent of women's rights.
Andrew Cuomo waded into the issue over the years, including when other high-profile men faced allegations of various sexual wrongdoing.
As early as 2013, he called for passage of the Women's Equality Act, which included a provision to stop sexual harassment in all workplaces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Maybe it's a man's world, but it's not a man's world in New York. Not anymore. We're going to pass this Women's Equality Act.
(APPLAUSE)
CUOMO: We're going to change the life for my daughters and your daughters and your sisters and your nieces --
(APPLAUSE)
CUOMO: -- and your wife and your significant other, and every person in this room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Now, later that year, when Anthony Weiner tried to mount a comeback campaign for mayor after he was caught sending sexually explicit photos via social media, Governor Cuomo told the Syracuse Media Group at the time, quote, "Shame on us if we elect him again."
In December of 2013, Cuomo called for resignations or expulsions of two state assemblymen accused of sexual misconduct with staff. In a statement, Cuomo called the reports the last straw. And he said
the pattern of behavior was, quote, "repugnant by every standard."
He addressed the issue again the following month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: There has also been a long and troubling pattern of incidents of sexual harassment, particularly in the New York State assembly. It goes back a long time. And it seems like it just doesn't stop.
What makes it worse is there have been complaints that people didn't know where to go, and they didn't know how to make their voice heard. And there have been complaints that people felt that not only were they being victimized but there was no recourse.
That has to stop, and it has to stop once and for all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Two years later, in 2016, is when Governor Cuomo's accuser, Lindsey Boylan, says her boss told her that the governor had a crush on her.
[14:50:03]
Boylan says he regularly made inappropriate comments to her, including on a plane trip home from an event in 2017 when she says he suggested they play strip poker.
Four staffers in the governor's office and Governor Cuomo all denied this ever happened.
That same year, Cuomo had this exchange with a reporter about what he could do to strengthen sexual harassment policies in state government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What could you do differently to, you know, kind of pick up on that?
CUOMO: journalism.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes, I know.
CUOMO: What are you going to do differently?
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: But the question's about state government.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes, I could tell you later in great detail --
CUOMO: No, it's about you and journalism. And it's about you and journalism. And it's about state government. And it's about carpentry. And it's about --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is your administration going to do anything differently to maybe be a little bit more --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: We put policies in state government, obviously that affects state government.
But I think you miss the point. When you say it's state government, you do a disservice to women, with all due respect, even though you're a woman. It's not government. It's society.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: In 2017, Cuomo was one of many politicians who agreed to return campaign donations from movie mogul, Harvey Weinstein, to other women's groups. Weinstein is serving a 23-year prison sentence for committing a criminal sexual act and rape.
And in 2018, Cuomo joined calls for the resignation of New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman after he was accused of assaulting four women that he dated.
Schneiderman denied ever assaulting anyone but said that he engaged in roleplaying and consensual sexual activity. Governor Cuomo called for his resignation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Women have been degraded for a long time. They've been victims of sexual harassment. And it hasn't been taken seriously. And it's been swept under the carpet. And you know what? I'm with the women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor?
CUOMO: I believe that. I believe sexual harassment has gone on for decades. And I believe society has been slow in their response. And I believe powerful people have gotten away with sexual harassment for a long, long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Schneiderman did resign. And after a criminal investigation, he was not charged.
That same year, Boylan says Cuomo gave her an unwanted kiss on the lips. Cuomo responded to the allegations that she initially posted to Twitter when he was asked about them in a news conference in December.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: On the tweets, I totally respect a woman's right, fought for a woman's right to express any concern and issue that she has in the workplace. I support that. But the tweets were simply not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: And, again, yesterday, he repeated his denial that he's never touched anyone inappropriately.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: And again yesterday, he repeated his denial that he never touched anyone inappropriately.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: I now understand that I acted in a way that made people feel uncomfortable. It was unintentional. And I truly and deeply apologize for it.
I never touched anyone inappropriately. I never knew at the time that I was making anyone feel uncomfortable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: In response, Boylan tweeted, "How can New Yorkers trust you to lead our state if you don't know when you've been inappropriate with your own staff?"
In 2018, the same year that Boylan alleges Cuomo kissed her, the governor signed legislation requiring all state government employees to undergo sexual harassment training.
And in 2019, Cuomo appeared with the leaders of the "Times Up" movement to promote legislation that would make it easier to prosecute sexual harassment and abuse. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Current law says sexual harassment has to be severe or pervasive. Severe or pervasive. Look at those words.
Oh, so I can sporadically sexually harass someone as long as I don't go so far as it becomes pervasive. No. It is a terrible legal standard. And it has to be changed, and it has to be changed now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Cuomo's former aid, Charlotte Bennett, says he sexually harassed her as recently as last summer. That's when she claims that he asked her about her sex life and said he was open to relationships with women in their 20s.
She told "The Times" that she interpreted the exchange as, quote, "clear overtures to a sexual relationship."
Bennett's attorney called the press conference yesterday, quote, "full of falsehoods."
In a statement, she said her client, quote, "reported his sexually harassing behavior immediately to his chief of staff and chief counsel. We are confident that they made him aware of her complaint."
[14:55:04]
"And we fully expect that the attorney general's investigation will demonstrate that Cuomo administration officials failed to act on Ms. Bennett's serious allegations or to ensure that corrective measures were taken in violation of their legal requirements," end quote."
The New York attorney general says the findings of her investigation will be disclosed in a public report.
And next, CNN has learned the Capitol Police have requested a two- month extension of National Guard troops amid a new threat of violence from conspiracy theorists. We'll take you live to the capitol.
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