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President Biden Endorses Filibuster Overhaul for the First Time; Biden Tells Cuomo to Resign if Probe Confirms Allegations; DHS Secretary Faces Lawmakers' Questions on Border Surge; Eight Killed in Atlanta Area Spa Shootings, Suspect in Custody; Growing Concern as New Cases Rise in More than a Dozen States. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired March 17, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:14]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Wednesday morning to you. Happy St. Patrick's Day. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Someone remembered the green. Not me. Good on you, Jim. Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow. We're so glad you're with us.

Well, this morning, a critical race to prevent another surge of COVID. Right now cases are rising in more than a dozen states, and in Michigan, new COVID infections are 50 percent higher than just a week ago. So this has the CDC calling two new variants in California a concern. Will vaccines protect against them? A big question this morning.

SCIUTTO: Also this morning, breaking developments out of Atlanta. Eight people killed in three separate shootings at massage parlors. According to local reports, six of the victims were Asian, many of Korean descent. At this time, the motive, however, is unknown. It is unclear if the attacks were racially motivated. A 21-year-old suspect is now in custody. There's a picture there. Security is ramping up in other Asian communities as a precaution.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who was in South Korea, gave this message just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: We're horrified by this violence which has no place in America or anywhere. We will stand up for the right of our fellow Americans, Korean Americans, to be safe and to be treated with dignity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We begin this hour with the latest on the shootings. Ryan Young is in Atlanta.

Ryan, it is early in this, but there is a suspect. What do the police know at this point? RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know the suspect is

Robert Long. He's a 21-year-old from Woodstock, Georgia. That's just outside the city of Atlanta. We know he was captured last night when the Georgia State Patrol performed a pit maneuver. Now that's a maneuver where the police officers get behind a car. They use their car to bump the suspect's vehicle and send it out of control.

They were able to arrest him and so far we are not sure if he's talking to investigators. The big question right now also is, will he have his first court appearance today or tomorrow? And it will be interesting to see in that court filing whether or not there will be any new information in terms of what he's been able to share with investigators as far as the motive is concerned. We do know police have been able to piece a lot of the information together based upon video evidence.

That's why that suspect picture was put out so quickly after the first shooting around 5:00 yesterday afternoon. And they were also able to put out that vehicle information. The first shooting happened in Woodstock. That's about an hour drive away from Atlanta. I'm sorry, it happened in Cherokee County, which is about an hour outside of Atlanta, and then the next two shootings happened here.

You look across the street. Three women were shot in the Gold Spa and then apparently the suspect walked across the street and shot another woman. Now, of course, this is where police have been investigating for hours to try to figure out all the pieces of this investigation to figure out exactly what happened.

I do know because I've learned from a source that when the shootings were going on here in Atlanta, that an all call went out to other massage parlors in this area to tell them to lock the door. Police were aware that there could be a suspect who was targeting massage parlors in the area.

Let's not forget that suspect was able to get almost two hours away before Georgia State Patrol was able to spot him on that road and make that quick apprehension. We do believe also that there could be some new information details coming out today. As far as policemen telling us, though, they were able to string a lot of these events together due to all the video surveillance in the area.

So still a lot of questions about not only the motive but why yesterday was the day that set him off.

SCIUTTO: Well, thankfully they were able to apprehend the suspect.

Ryan Young, thanks very much.

Let's speak more now about this, what we know, what we don't know, CNN counterterrorism analyst Phil Mudd, long experienced in the FBI as well.

So, Phil, it is early here. I mean, the good news is the police do have a suspect. What signs do you look for here in terms of pattern, et cetera, as you are starting an investigation about this and what's behind it?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Boy, it's early for us and I would agree it's early for law enforcement, but remember, this happened last night. The initial reports were that this might have been a robbery. Clearly if you have three incidents all related to Asian locations, that starts to have a different tinge. But when I say early, over the past hours after the arrest you've got to think about categories of stuff that the feds and the state and locals already know that we don't.

They've got records. That is, they've got a license plate and a driver's license from the individual so you can search everything from where that individual got the weapon to whether there's a history of arrest.

[09:05:01]

They've got social media to determine whether this person has liked anything that suggested an anti-Asian bias. They've got friends and family. You've got to believe that overnight investigators fanned out to friends and family and also potentially roommates if this individual doesn't live at home to say, what was the mindset of this person. So we don't know a lot, Jim, but I'm going to guess that the investigators know a heck of a lot already.

HARLOW: I mean, Phil, six of the eight people killed were Asian women. And, you know, obviously, they are going to be looking at that. They're going to be looking at the connection between the three of these. We don't know their identities yet, we don't know if they were parents. There's so much we don't know. What would they be doing in terms of the line of questioning this early on?

MUDD: The first questions have to do with -- would be not related to motive, although I'm sure they're asking those questions. They're related to imminent threat. That is, is this individual involved with other people who had similar mindsets, and can I find those people immediately? Is this individual involved in a social media network among people who talk about violence? So you want to ask questions that we all want answered about why, but my first question has to do with what.

What happened and are there other people who want to participate in what happened? When you're investigating, the first question is always make sure there's no more imminent threat to the community.

SCIUTTO: Phil, in your experience, when you look for motivation in attacks like this one, and again, noting it's early, are there times when there are multiple factors that play into it? As you are profiling this, right, again, early in an investigation.

MUDD: Yes. I mean, you can go from one end of the spectrum to the other. The first people we looked at in al Qaeda had motivations that were back in 2001, and those were obviously hate crimes, had motivations that were crystal clear. Those motivations changed and became fuzzier over time. You go to the other end of the spectrum, you remember the attack in Las Vegas a few years ago.

And investigators closed that by saying, we still don't know, after tens of thousands of hours of investigation what the actual motive was. Let me cut to the chase. You can look at a narrow motive and say maybe at the end of the day, we don't know, maybe this was racially motivated. But as you're suggesting, you step back and say, does this person have a job? Did they lose a job?

Are they socially isolated? Did they lose a girlfriend? We are looking for simple motivations. Sometimes it's a lot fuzzier than that, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's a good point. Something to be aware of.

Phil Mudd, thanks so much. I'm sure we'll draw on your experience again.

Well, the CDC says that two new COVID variants first detected in California in this country could be about 20 percent more contagious. They are now being described as variants of concern.

HARLOW: Right now more than a dozen states are seeing an increase in new cases just in the last week. Take a look at the state of Michigan there. It's dark red because they have a 53 percent increase in cases from one week ago.

Let's bring in our medical analyst Dr. Celine Gounder, she's an infectious disease specialist, an epidemiologist.

Good morning, Dr. Gounder. How nervous or not nervous should people be? Because I don't want to scare them more. There are lots of good signs. A lot of progress on the vaccine front. Are these variants that risky that they could do away with all that progress that we've made?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Poppy, it's been over a month now since me and other members of the Biden transition, COVID Advisory Board published a piece in "The New York Times" warning against exactly this scenario. What we have seen is with this U.K. variant, which is significant significantly more infectious, even more so than the California variants that you were describing just now, the U.K. variant is what resulted in a huge surge in cases in the U.K. prompted them to reinstitute very strict lockdown measures to control it.

We are now seeing that same variant spread in Europe. Now we're seeing surges in cases in Italy and France because of that variant, and that same variant is now going to be the dominant strain here in the United States very shortly, by the end of March or in April. And so what we've seen is our cases are -- improvement has really stalled out. And when we see a plateau like that, whether that's been here previously or in those European countries, that predicts another surge.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Gounder, I want to be clear for our viewers about vaccines, right? Because the data to this point has shown that the vaccines are still very effective against variants. The British one, the South African one, in arguably the most important way, right, keeping people out of the hospital and keeping people alive, right? And you also have other data like in South Africa, though a variant originated there, cases have dropped off a cliff there in new infections.

[09:10:02]

So put this into some context, right, because this is a key time for people getting their vaccines. State in clear terms, if this is true, getting the vaccines as they exist today in this country still the smartest thing to do, correct?

GOUNDER: Yes, that's right, Jim. So the vaccines do remain protective against these variant strains but with only just over 10 percent of the American population fully vaccinated, we really can't count on the vaccines yet to curb a surge in cases. We really do need to be a bit patient, which means that in the meantime, we do need to double down on masking. If we're going to socialize, do so in well-ventilated spaces or outdoors.

I do think spring break is going to contribute to a surge, unfortunately, not because of what happens on airplanes but how people socialize and mix together, unfortunately oftentimes in crowds, in person. And so, you know, I do think these are things that may well set us back.

HARLOW: Take a moment and just listen to this if you would, Doctor, from President Biden in this interview last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I honest to God thought we had it out. I honest to God thought that once we guaranteed we had enough vaccine for everybody, things would start to calm down. Well, they have calmed down a great deal, but I just don't understand this sort of macho thing about, I'm not going to get the vaccine. I have a right as an American. My freedom to not do it. Well, why don't you be a patriot? Protect other people?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: It's a really important point. At least now, finally, former President Trump is telling people to get a vaccine. He could have done it sooner. He could have publicly announced and shown his vaccination back in January.

I wonder if you think since you worked so closely with the Biden administration, is there anything else they can do to combat the skepticism among 46 percent of Republicans who say they won't get vaccinated? Can this administration do anything now?

GOUNDER: Well, what we're hearing is that even former President Trump's message may not be what sways them. You know, I think what you really need is a hyperlocal approach. People in their communities. And it's very often their own primary care provider who needs to be the person that they speak to, who counsels them on a personal level through this decision. And, you know, that's a heavy lift.

That's just not something you can do through a PSA on television. You need to be enlisting legions of people to help with this. HARLOW: Great point.

SCIUTTO: Well, folks, you heard Dr. Gounder say get vaccinated. There's no question the vaccines still protect against all these variants, but be careful in the meantime, right?

Dr. Celine Gounder, thanks so much.

Still to come this hour, President Biden has a message for migrants making their way to the U.S. border. Don't come. Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas is testifying on the Hill today as thousands of unaccompanied minors are now in U.S. custody.

HARLOW: Also a new report says that Russian President Vladimir Putin was directly involved once again in interfering in the 2020 election. And this morning, President Biden says he, Russia, will pay a price for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: For the first time in his presidency, President Biden is making the case for not eliminating but reforming --

JIM SCIUTTO, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Yes --

HARLOW: The Senate legislative filibuster. Listen to what he said last night to "ABC".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think you have to eliminate the filibuster. You have to do it what it used to be when I first got to the Senate, and back in the old days when you used to be around there. And that is that a filibuster, you had to stand up and command the floor. And you had to keep talking alone, you couldn't call for -- you know, no one could say, you know, quorum call. Once you stop talking, you lost that and someone could move in and say, I move the question of. So you've got to work for the filibuster.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: So, you're for that reform, you're for bringing back the talking filibuster?

BIDEN: I am. That's what it was supposed to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, joining us now to discuss this possibility, a hot one in Washington right now, David Gergen; former presidential adviser to Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton and Margaret Talev; managing editor for "Axios". David, you know, Democrats are clearly considering this, whether they have the votes is a question. Mitch McConnell in advance is saying, listen, if you go there, I'm basically going to bring the Senate to a halt. I mean, he says Senate gridlock, you know, will be like a 100-car pile-up. I wonder though, could you make the argument that's already the case right now to some degree, right?

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER ADVISER TO PRESIDENTS NIXON, FORD, REAGAN & CLINTON: You can certainly make that argument that's already the case. I mean, there are all sorts of major pieces of legislation on climate change, on dreamers and everything else, and you know, we're talking more and more about dreamers and other people at the border. And, you know, all those are backed up because you can't get the number of votes in the Senate. You can get a majority, but you can't get the super majority. And you know, so I think the Democrats have a legitimate point, but be careful what you do with this because once you open the door on the democratic side, you open the door on the Republican side when the pendulum swings back the other way.

You know, that's what happened with these Supreme Court nominations. You know, there used to be a rule about that, that you have to get two-thirds, and now, you know, that's gone and look what happened -- look what the Republicans did with that.

[09:20:00]

HARLOW: Yes, totally. So Margaret, what I thought was also striking from Biden last night in that interview was that he said he thinks that Republicans are going to have an epiphany by 2022 and they're going to work with him. And you know, Ron Klain has said that the administration takes a lot of inspiration from what Lyndon Johnson was able to do with voting rights, et cetera. But Lyndon Johnson was operating with a Senate that had 68 Democrats. And so it's just such a different time, such a different make-up of the Senate. I wonder if, you know, if he's holding -- he's going to be holding his breath a little too long for that epiphany.

MARGARET TALEV, MANAGING EDITOR, AXIOS: Yes, Lyndon Johnson was like not exactly known as a gentleman either. I mean, Biden has such a different brand to protect. You know --

HARLOW: Yes --

TALEV: He's not going to be taking seven showers a day and accosting senators in the bathroom to get them to do what he wants them to do. So, I think we are -- it's a different time and a different personality, but this is so on brand with President Biden. You also heard him in the interview of -- the "ABC" interview saying he was surprised, you know, because he thought already that there had been this -- you know, shift around thinking when it comes to the vaccines. So, right, I think it is going to be consistently part of his brand to put out a good-faith effort to reach across the aisle and then discuss his surprising disappointment when it doesn't happen. But he has to do that because that is his message. It is like hope springs eternal.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

TALEV: He'll do his part for that sort of outreach. I think there is a real question coming, right, around this filibuster question. It's a 51-vote threshold, it's a rules change, if I understand the process right, this is actually pretty complicated stuff. But many folks, President Obama, progressives, you know, there's a building chorus for this, and we're going to see it pivot probably around the voting rights issue because that is an issue --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

TALEV: As Democrats weigh this, it's like, do you -- if you don't get rid of this tradition, do you allow Republicans to control state houses and governorships and numbers in Congress longer than the popular vote would have them do it. And so you need to -- like a historical moment for the U.S. that we're building towards.

SCIUTTO: Yes, you do have Democrats, Clyburn, Stacey Abrams, mentioning a carve-out specific to voting rights in the filibuster as opposed to broader changes. I do want to ask you, Margaret, just pivot to the other political challenge right now is the border issue for this presidency. Clearly, not one it expected and presidencies are often defined by the unexpected events. Republicans, of course, trying to make political hay of this. And there's potential there, but I wonder, they and Trump tried to do the same with the border in 2018 midterms and again going into 2020. It didn't work out certainly to the degree they expected, by some measures, it failed. And I wonder, is the threat exaggerated politically to some degree or is this one different?

TALEV: I think, look, as you see, Biden juggle these two dual threats, right? COVID and the border. Right now, the border looks like a much more potent political threat. This is a galvanizing issue for Republicans. This is a divisive issue for Democrats. Biden is taking heat from both sides. Democrats saying you're not doing enough to protect children, and Republicans saying, you -- your rhetoric on this has opened the door and exacerbated the numbers, and there are pressures coming from other countries that President Biden can do very little to control. So this is a really difficult situation right now and he knows that these numbers could get worse throughout the Spring, and that's what we're seeing him address it this way.

HARLOW: Guys, listen to the exchange that Biden had with George Stephanopoulos last night about the accusations against Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: If the investigation confirms the claims of the women, should he resign?

BIDEN: Yes, I think he probably are going to be prosecuted, too. A woman should be presumed to telling the truth and should not be scapegoated and become victimized by her coming forward, number one. But there should be an investigation to determine whether what she says is true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: It's significant, David, not only because he's the president, but because of his long and close relationship with Governor Cuomo. What do you make of what you just heard?

GERGEN: I think that President Biden did the right thing. He said let's get the facts in and then make a judgment. And if he's done these things then he ought -- he should resign. It seems to me that Biden is doing more than just helping a friend. I think he's doing the right thing, and you don't want to shut people out the door after 15 years of service without giving them a fair chance to let their voices be heard. So, I think that's going forward. But I want to come back to the border thing just for a moment, if I may. I do think that there's a potential threat here to the Biden presidency which transcends the issue of the border itself.

And that is that in the opening days here, the first 50 days, he's gotten off to a terrific start, but he's convinced people that he's going to be a different kind of president.

[09:25:00]

That he's going to be a very competent, professional president professional working with them. They just didn't see this coming apparently.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

GERGEN: They didn't -- coming, so, it looks like had they got caught off guard by the severity of this. And then there's the other issue that I think is very important to Biden and his presidency, and that is to be an honest president, a transparent parent. And so far, in contrast to the way they handled the vaccination issues and contrast to how they handled the COVID issues, they -- he's been less than direct. I must say, I mean, with in taking responsibility for what's going on at the border. So I think that there is -- within this whole issue, something that's more threatening to him and his presidency, and it's really important that he and his team get aligned and get aligned on what the policy is and be very open. Let the -- happening.

SCIUTTO: Good point --

HARLOW: It's a really good point, David. Thank you both, Margaret and David. We appreciate you.

GERGEN: Thank you.

HARLOW: On the border issue, in just minutes, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas will face really intense questioning from lawmakers over the developing humanitarian crisis at the border. We're monitoring that.

SCIUTTO: And we are moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Futures mixed this morning, investors eagerly awaiting a Federal Reserve meeting about America's overall financial health. The likelihood that rates will be raised in the near future. Haven't talked about that in a while. And whether stimulus could potentially overheat the economy, we're keeping a close eye on the market.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)