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Derek Chauvin Trial Continues. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired March 30, 2021 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:01]
ERIN ELDRIDGE, MINNESOTA ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: You kind of knew what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That he was dead or not breathing.
ELDRIDGE: And what made you think that he was dead or not breathing at that point?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His eyes were closed and he was just laying there, no longer fighting or resisting.
ELDRIDGE: And, again, when you were saying fighting or resisting before, what do you mean by that? Were you talking about breathing, or are you talking about fight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breathing.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead and play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SCREAMING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all see he's not -- like, what is wrong with you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get off of his fucking neck, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, for real? You're still on him.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What the fuck is--
(CROSSTALK)
(SHOUTING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is wrong? Why are you all still on him? He's not doing nothing to you all.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELDRIDGE: Did you notice anything in particular when the ambulance came about Mr. Floyd, the way he looked to you at that point?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn't look alive. I noticed that the paramedics looked at his eyes, checked his pulse.
They kind of just proceeded to put him on the gurney, didn't really say anything.
ELDRIDGE: And would -- had you previously described his body as limp?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
All right, you can play the rest. Thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go to your partners.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the sidewalk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not going to help him.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all, what the fuck? Like, what the fuck?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- pass out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're a real man for that, bro. He in handcuffs, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is not doing nothing to you all.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact that you guys aren't checking his pulse and doing compressions if you need--
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You guys are on another level.
(CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But, look, he's fucking dead, bro. He's fucking dead, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back on the street!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back on the street!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't touch him.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your badge number, actually?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back on the street!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't try to get rid of us.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back on the street.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're wrong now, bro.
I ain't said a word the whole time I have been standing--
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I even tried to help out, didn't I? I even tried helping--
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn't I? Didn't I?
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELDRIDGE: At that point when you stopped recording, did you end up proceeding into the store?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: All right, we can stop it there.
Was it your voice asking about badge numbers and things like that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. ELDRIDGE: And I think you had said you said that earlier, too. Why
was that important for you, badge numbers, stuff like that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just -- at that point, I kind of felt like all I could do was catch what was going on with the camera. And I just wanted to make sure I got everyone there. That's why I was moving around a lot.
ELDRIDGE: Did you feel it was important for you to document what was going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: How did watching all this in the moment feel for you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It felt really like -- like a lot to take in at first. I almost walked away at first, because it was a lot to watch, but I knew that it was wrong, and I couldn't just walk away, even though I couldn't do anything about it.
ELDRIDGE: And since that time, since you saw this happen last year, what impact has it had on you since then?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it didn't really affect me right away, because I kind of just felt emotionally numb about it. I didn't run to the Internet or anything. I kind of just kept to myself and tried to go on with my day and remember what I really came there for.
ELDRIDGE: And after the fact, after you had some time to process it, what did you feel?
[15:05:02]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt really like -- like I said, numb to the whole situation. I didn't -- I kind of just pushed it aside, because I didn't really know how to feel. It was a lot to take in.
ELDRIDGE: Did you go back to Cup Foods after that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I still haven't been there to this day.
ELDRIDGE: And why is that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't want to be reminded.
ELDRIDGE: Nothing further, Your Honor.
PETER CAHILL, HENNEPIN COUNTY, MINNESOTA, JUDGE: Mr. Nelson.
ERIC NELSON, ATTORNEY FOR DEREK CHAUVIN: Good afternoon, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
NELSON: Just a few questions for you.
Do you recall being interviewed by Agent Petersen and Reyerson of the Minnesota of Criminal Apprehension?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe so.
NELSON: OK.
You remember talking to two police officers about what you observed, what you saw, things of that nature?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
NELSON: And if I told you their names were agents Reyerson and Petersen, would you have any reason to dispute me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
NELSON: OK. And they recorded that call; is that correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
NELSON: And then again, I believe just within the last two or three days, you met with the prosecution team?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
NELSON: And you told them -- gave them some more information as well, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
NELSON: All right.
So, do you recall telling Agent Petersen and Reyerson, as well as the prosecution team, that, while you were there, you observed the officers check Mr. Floyd's radial pulse?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said I believed that they did, the two that were on his body, I thought that at one point I did see someone try. Nothing changed, though. Nothing with their body language or anything changed.
NELSON: OK.
Do you recall -- were you given an opportunity to listen to your previous statement?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
NELSON: Were you ever given a transcript of your previous statement?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
NELSON: Would you disagree with me if I told you said, "I even saw them check his pulse multiple times before the ambulance got there"?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would not agree with that.
NELSON: You would not agree with that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, because I don't remember.
NELSON: You don't remember that now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you restate it?
NELSON: Sure.
Back when you were interviewed by the police officers in September, you told them that you saw the officers check his pulse multiple times before the ambulance got there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not believe I said multiple times.
NELSON: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
CAHILL: You may.
NELSON: Date stamp 364515 (OFF-MIKE)
I'm going to hand it you through this Plexiglas. I'm just going to point to the last underlined.
Can I ask you to read that (INAUDIBLE). OK.
So, did you tell Agents Reyerson and Petersen that you saw the officers check for a pulse multiple times?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I did. And, then, afterwards, I told them that they -- it looked like they did not find one.
NELSON: OK.
Now, you also described to the officers that you were angry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
NELSON: And you would agree to this day that you were angry at what you saw?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
NELSON: And would you describe others in the crowd as angry as well?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would assume so.
NELSON: I have no further questions.
CAHILL: Redirect.
ELDRIDGE: Alissa (ph), you were just asked some questions about a pulse. Did that refresh your recollection about that portion of what you saw?
[15:10:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little bit.
The day those officers came to my house, there was multiple times of being bothered, and it was kind of like they kind of forced the interview onto me, so--
ELDRIDGE: OK.
So, thinking about it today, in terms of what you saw that day, what did -- just tell the jury what you saw in terms of somebody checking a pulse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I don't exactly remember standing right there all the way, because it's like kind of in and out, but rewatching the video, I remember seeing, like, someone move their hands towards his wrist, his vitals, behind his back.
ELDRIDGE: And was that person Mr. Chauvin?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
ELDRIDGE: So, that was someone else?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And are you unclear about whether or not that was an actual pulse check because you said they didn't change anything they were doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
ELDRIDGE: And did you assume that, if they hadn't -- that if they were concerned, they would have changed what they were doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Would they have gotten up off him? Is that what you expected to happen?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that is what I would expect they would do.
ELDRIDGE: And you were asked some questions about being angry. Were you upset about what was going on in front of you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Did you attack anybody?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
ELDRIDGE: Hit anybody?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
ELDRIDGE: You know, threaten the officers in any way?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
ELDRIDGE: So, when you say angry, what do you mean?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was upset because there was nothing that we could do as bystanders, except watch them take this man's life in front of our eyes.
ELDRIDGE: And when you say we, were all of you doing what you were doing, meaning not getting physical and not throwing punches or making threats to the officers?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
ELDRIDGE: Nothing further.
CAHILL: Any re-cross?
NELSON: No, Your Honor.
CAHILL: All right, thank you. You may step down.
The next witness.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: OK. So, as we're waiting to have this second witness step in, this next witness step in, Elie Honig, let's talk really quickly about this 18-year-old, 17 at the time.
This is all just -- just listening to the judge for a second.
This is all incredibly just disturbing and overwhelming on -- as you point out, on a factual, on a visceral level. Watching the side-by- side of the surveillance video vs. what the bystanders were seeing and how they were pleading with these officers to get off him, what did you make of her testimony?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Brooke, that last witness was remarkably powerful and brave as well.
BALDWIN: Yes.
HONIG: I have seen adults collapse on the stand in tears. That young woman stood up there. She answered clearly, directly.
And the prosecutor, by the way, did a really good job asking her straightforward questions, smart questions, taking it one step at a time.
And what the prosecution just did there was a very effective argumentative tactic. They essentially had that young woman narrate the videos. The videos are so compelling.
BALDWIN: Yes.
HONIG: They would play a clip in the video, then ask her, what did you see here? How did you feel here? Very strong moment for the prosecution. BALDWIN: Just quickly, what about the point about the pulse and the knee on the neck? What were they getting at there?
HONIG: Yes, I think what the defense lawyer was trying to do is standard cross-examination, basically argue, you said it a little differently the first time you spoke to the police officers. You said you saw them check for a pulse.
The prosecutor then got up on what we call redirect. That means the prosecutor gets to come back after the defense lawyer's cross- examination and try to clear it up. And I think she cleared up that the witness was confused, because she wasn't sure whether it was really a pulse check, because it looked to her like they didn't find anything.
So, I think that cleared up some of that sort of apparent contradiction.
BALDWIN: To hear her say, I felt like I was powerless there. I felt like I was failing him.
And so it continues. They have taken a quick break, so we will take a quick break.
We will be back with more on this Derek Chauvin trial next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:19:15]
BALDWIN: All right, we are back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.
Charles Ramsey, Elie Honig are both with me, as we are all just watching in -- seeing how these various witnesses are testifying, these young witnesses, right, who were minors at the times, so we're not actually seeing their faces. But we're hearing them. We're hearing the tears as they're describing hearing George Floyd over and over saying he can't breathe.
And, Commissioner, this is for you, because, obviously, the prosecution is trying to, through these witnesses, show that how long Chauvin's knee, then Officer Chauvin's knee, was on Mr. Floyd's neck.
And at one point, just listening to this witness, she said: "I knew time was running out, or it had already." And then she added she believed she was watching this man who we now learn is George Floyd die.
[15:20:05]
Hearing her, your thoughts?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, hearing her and hearing the previous two witnesses, the first thing that came to my mind was, I hope that they're getting some kind of psychological counseling.
I don't know who would be responsible for that. But to witness that at any age, to see someone die in front of you is traumatic. Imagine if you're 8 years old or you're 17 years old at the time. The one said that she wakes up apologizing to George Floyd for not doing enough. The other, in almost a year, hasn't even been back to Cup Foods because she doesn't want to be reminded.
I mean, that -- this is leaving some pretty deep psychological scars, and it needs to be addressed. I don't know who would be responsible for that, but somebody needs to really help these kids.
BALDWIN: Yes. So brave to imagine finding yourself at that age in the middle of a moment that will then become seared in the nation's minds, and all eyes, the eyes of the world on them as they're as they're testifying.
RAMSEY: Yes.
BALDWIN: Again, just they're swearing in the next witness. Is the witness ready?
Let's listen back in.
ELDRIDGE: Good afternoon, Kailyn (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
ELDRIDGE: How are you feeling today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little nervous, a lot of anxiety.
ELDRIDGE: Tell me why you have anxiety today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just because of what happened. Just want the truth to come out.
ELDRIDGE: OK. Deep breaths. We will take it slow, OK?
If you need a break, you just let me know, all right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
ELDRIDGE: You ready?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
So, I'm going to start with some easy questions, background questions, OK? So, why don't you tell the jury how old you are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seventeen years old.
ELDRIDGE: And are you a high school student now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I'm a senior.
ELDRIDGE: And are you in, in person school or online?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Online school.
ELDRIDGE: How's that going?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's going good.
ELDRIDGE: Almost there for your senior year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, almost there.
ELDRIDGE: And what city do you live in now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: St. Paul, Minnesota.
ELDRIDGE: Was there a time that you and your family lived in Minneapolis, South Minneapolis?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, when I was younger.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
Do you still have some friends, family, friends in that area?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And--
CAHILL: (INAUDIBLE) The court reporter is taking everything down with a stenograph machine. It will make it a little easier for her to get everything, so don't worry about it. You're doing fine.
ELDRIDGE: And I talk fast. I will try to slow down, try to make it easy for everybody.
OK. So, you said you still have friends in South Minneapolis?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And is one of those friends named Alissa?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
So, I'm going to ask you some questions about the reason you're here today.
So, why don't you tell the jury why you're here today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For George Floyd.
ELDRIDGE: OK. And when you say for George Floyd, did you see what happened to George Floyd? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So, I'm going to ask you some questions about that, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
ELDRIDGE: You ready?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: If you need a tissue, you need a break, you just put up your hand and let me know, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
ELDRIDGE: But you can grab a tissue any time you need one.
So, I'm going to ask you some questions about that day, the day that all this happened. So, first things first. How did you come to be in the area? What were you doing that day?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me and Alissa were going to get snacks and an aux cord for the radio.
ELDRIDGE: And where were you headed that day? Where did you want to--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To Cup.
ELDRIDGE: And when you say Cup, is that Cup Foods?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: All right. So, you said you were with Alissa. And how did you guys get there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We drove there.
ELDRIDGE: And who drove, you or Alissa?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alissa.
ELDRIDGE: And where were you in the car? Were you in the front passenger seat?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So, just the two of you together?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
[15:25:03]
ELDRIDGE: So, she was driving. You're in the passenger seat. You're headed to Cup Foods. What's the first thing you notice once you get into the area?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We hear George -- George Floyd's voice yelling out for his mom and saying he can't breathe.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
And did you notice -- well, how soon did you notice what was going on? Were you still driving up when you noticed what was going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And is that what you heard from the car?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And what did you see as you were driving up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We seen three officers on top of George Floyd.
ELDRIDGE: And what did you do next? Did you park -- did Alissa park the car?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And then what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She pulled over. And she asked if she should record it, and she didn't have a phone at the time, so she took my phone and recorded it.
ELDRIDGE: And what were you doing when -- did she get out of the car first?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. She told me to stay in the car, in the car, just in case anything happened. We didn't know what was going on.
ELDRIDGE: So, did you stay in the car for some period of time?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So, when you were in the car and Alissa got out of the car, could you hear what was going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I could kind of hear what was going on.
ELDRIDGE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't specifically remember exactly what was said, but I do remember hearing voices.
ELDRIDGE: So, tell the jury just what you remember noticing from where you were in the car. What were you hearing or seeing or observing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard George Floyd yelling still, saying he can't breathe. And then I heard witnesses that were there saying he was unresponsive. And that's -- when I started hearing voices getting louder, I got out of the car.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
So, I'm going to stop you there are for just a second. You talked about George Floyd. You said you're here for George Floyd and you're talking about seeing George Floyd.
Did you know who he was at that time?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
ELDRIDGE: After the fact, did you learn his name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So, you now know him to be George Floyd?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: When you heard -- you said you heard voices getting louder. What prompted you to get out of the car? What made you think you should get out of the car?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess it was kind of just a gut feeling.
ELDRIDGE: When you said you heard voices getting louder, was there something about the tone or what was said that--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounded serious.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
But what made you think it was something serious?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just the way, like, everyone sounded.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
So, what did you do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got out of the car and I walked up. And that's when I saw George Floyd unconscious and Derek on his neck.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
So, I want to break that down a little bit. You said you saw George Floyd unconscious. What made you think that George Floyd was unconscious when you saw him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn't talking anybody. And when we pulled up, he was talking. His eyes were closed. He wasn't moving.
ELDRIDGE: And you said you saw Derek on top of him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And by Derek, do you mean Derek Chauvin?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Did you know who that was at the time?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
ELDRIDGE: But did you learn his name later?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So, when you said that you saw Derek, Mr. Chauvin, on top of George Floyd, what was -- what did you see Mr. Chauvin doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw him kind of digging his knee into his neck more. Like, he was putting a lot of pressure on his neck that wasn't needed.
ELDRIDGE: And how could you tell -- or what made you think, from your point of view, that Mr. Chauvin was putting more pressure on George Floyd's neck?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can see it -- like, his foot movement.
ELDRIDGE: So, when you say digging, are you talking about the position of Mr. Chauvin's knee on Mr. Floyd's neck?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
So, you come out to see Mr. Floyd, who looks unconscious to you. What else do you see and hear going on around you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The witnesses telling them to check for a pulse.
