Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden Speaks as Pandemic Recovery Escalates, U.S. Adds 916,000 Jobs; Testimony Resumes in Derek Chauvin Murder Trial; Prosecution Questions Minneapolis Police Lieutenant. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 02, 2021 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: American jobs plan on Wednesday in Pittsburgh.

[11:30:02]

It's an eight-year program that invites and -- let me put it in another way. I heard from everybody all across the country about the need for infrastructure. How many times have we heard this is -- this is infrastructure week the last four years? About every second week is infrastructure week. But no infrastructure was built.

Well, this is, an eight-year program that invests in our roads, our bridges, broadband, airports, ports and fixing our water systems. This can repair our V.A. hospital as cross the country, many of them more than 50 years old and are in real need of help. It will invest in research and development to outcompete China and the rest of the world.

Independent analysis shows that if we pass this plan, the economy will create 19 million jobs, good jobs, blue collar jobs, jobs that pay well. That's long-term jobs for pipe fitters, health care workers, those who work in the steel factories and the cutting edge labs as well.

The new report out this week shows that nearly 90 percent of the infrastructure jobs created in the American jobs plan can be filled by people who don't have a college degree. 75 percent of those good paying jobs don't need an associates' (ph) degree. It's a blue collar blueprint for increasing the opportunity for people.

This is an economic opportunity through those who have helped build the country and have been ignored or neglected much too long by our government. It's a once in a generation investment in our economic future, a chance to win the future, paid for by asking big corporations, many of which do not pay any taxes at all, just to begin to pay their fair share. And it won't raise a penny tax on a family making less than $400,000 a year, no federal tax, no addition.

When Congress comes back after this Easter break, I'm going to begin meeting with Democrats, Republicans about this plan. I spoke to Republicans on the phone. I'm looking forward to meeting with them. They all have their ideas about what it will take, what they like and what they don't like. That's a good thing. That's the American way. Debate is welcome. Compromise is inevitable. Changes to my plan are certain. But inaction is not an option.

The American people have been promised action infrastructure for decades. They've been promised that after our leaders would take our country and make it more competitive for decades. I have made my plan to address this long overdue need and it's clear.

Polls already show strong support for infrastructure investment from the American people, whether Democrats or Republicans or Independents. Congress should debate my plan. Change it and offer alternatives if they think that's what they have to do. But Congress should act.

Likewise, on the virus, our program there too can be undone. As fast as we're moving, more adults remain to be vaccinated in April, May and June than have already been vaccinated in February and March. We are not even half way done yet. Too many Americans as acting as if this fight is over. It is not.

I've told people that if my administration did the hard work of getting shots to all Americans in the next few months, if the American people continue to do their part, mask up, practice social distancing, we can have a more normal July 4th. But this is still April, not July. We aren't there yet. And so cases are going up again. The virus is spreading more rapidly in many places. Deaths are going up in some states.

So I ask, I plead with you, don't give back the progress we've all so -- fought so hard to achieve. We need to finish this job. We need every American to buckle down and keep their guard up in this homestretch. Wear your mask. Keep safe distance from one another. Wash your hands. Get vaccinated when it's your turn. That's how we're going to beat the virus. Cast off the weight of the pandemic that is holding our economy back.

While the earliest signs from this job report -- announcing today, our promise to the American rescue plan is starting to make a real difference. Today's report also reminds us how deep a hole we started in. After a year of devastation, there are still 8.4 million fewer jobs today than there were last March, 8.4 million. We created 900,000 again, but 8.4 million jobs fewer today than last march.

[11:35:05]

So, too many Americans have been unemployed for longer than six months. Too many women have been forced out of the workforce. Unemployment among people of color remains far too high.

Yes, we made progress by starting to build an economy from the bottom up in the middle out. And, yes, the American rescue plan is laying the foundation for that economy. But we still need the American jobs plan to build on that foundation to build this country back and better.

So the bottom line is this, today's report is good news. Today's report shows that the country can what it can do when we act together to fight a virus, to give working people the help they need, but we still have a long way to go. But I know that we're going to get there and we're going to get there together. And may God bless you all and may you have a Happy Easter and a Holy Easter. Thank you.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM (voice over): And you have just been listening to the president touting and embracing a really strong jobs report for the month of March.

Let's listen in to some questions he may be answering.

BIDEN: Raising taxes will not slow the economy at all. Asking corporate America to pay just their fair share, it will not slow the economy at all. It will make the economy function better and will create more energy.

REPORTER: This whole process is going to fight your administration every step of the way. What is your reaction to that?

BIDEN: If the Republicans argue that we don't need infrastructure, and they've been talking about the need for it for years now, if the Republicans decide that we need it but they're not pay for it, it's just going to increase the deficit. If the Republicans say the next phase of my plan we don't need to invest in V.A. hospitals and keep the sacred obligation we made to so many Americans.

If the Republicans say the 400,000 holes in our schools and daycare centers that have lead pipes, lead pipes delivering water to their doors, if they say, we shouldn't be doing that, what do you think would happen if they found out all the lead pipes were up in the Capitol and every time they turned on a water fountain?

So I think -- look, I think we're going to have -- I think the Republicans voters are going to have a lot to say about whether we get a lot of this done.

GOLODRYGA: And the president there addressing some of the challenges that he will be facing, obviously, touting this very impressive and strong jobs report for the month of March, 619,000 jobs were created, that's the best monthly jobs report we've seen since August. The unemployment rate has dropped to 6 percent. But the president says, as hopeful as this, there is still a lot of work to be done.

And for more on that, let's bring in CNN's John Harwood who is at the White House.

So, John, on the one hand, you have a very strong jobs report. On the other hand, you have a president who is saying, listen, a lot of this is due to vaccines increasing. We're leading the world now in vaccinations, but this is temporary if, in his opinion, more stimulus, more money isn't applied to the economy longer term.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Bianna, this is a new president in an exceptionally fortunate position. He's got the wind at his back both on progress, on vaccinations, which is going to bring the pandemic under control, and on progress on the economy.

But what he's trying to do is make the case, which is not always easy for politicians to make when conditions are improving, that on both fronts, you need -- Congress needs to keep its foot on the gas. He wants to make sure that the American people continue to be safe so we don't backslide on the pandemic.

And more importantly than that, from his point of view, is this long- term plan, build back better, the jobs plan he outlined for physical infrastructure this week, the forthcoming family plan to build up human capital, he's trying to make the case that we don't just get back to a low unemployment economy of the economy of the kind we had before. We want to build a different economy that is a more equitable economy and trying to keep Democrats together behind that plan.

No indication that it's going to get Republican support but he's trying to push to keep Democrats unified and not have the good news that we're experiencing now sap the energy for action going forward both to raise the taxes needed and to do the spending that he has called for.

GOLODRYGA: Right, sort of preemptively addressing some of the issues that Republicans have been raising now for weeks. John Harwood, thank you so much.

And we want to take you back now to the trial of Officer Derek Chauvin. We're in fifth day of testimony now.

[11:40:00]

Let's resume.

LT. RICHARD ZIMMERMAN, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE HOMICIDE OFFICER: -- his well-being and it's your responsibility.

MATTHEW FRANK, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Once you handcuff somebody, does that affect the amount of force that you should consider using?

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.

FRANK: How so?

ZIMMERMAN: Once a person is cuffed, the threat level goes down all the way. You know, to -- they're cuffed. How can they really hurt you, you know? And --

FRANK: Well, certainly there could be circumstances when a cuffed person could still be combative?

ZIMMERMAN: Oh, absolutely, yes. Yes. But you getting injured is way down.

FRANK: What do you mean by that?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, you know, if you're -- you could have some guy try to kick you or something. But you can move out of the way. That person is handcuffed, you know? And they -- the threat level is just not there.

FRANK: so by handcuffing somebody, you've taken way some of their ability to harm you?

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.

FRANK: And if somebody who is handcuffed becomes less combative, does that change the amount of force that an officer is to use under the policy?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

FRANK: How so?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, if they become less combative, you may just have them sit down on the curb or -- the idea is to calm the person down. And if it they are not a threat to you at that point, you try to, you know, to help them so that they're not as upset as they may have been in the beginning.

FRANK: In your 30 years of training with Minneapolis Police Department and your experience, have you been trained on the prone position?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

FRANK: And what has your training been specific to the prone position?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, once -- once you secure or handcuff a person, you need to get them out of the prone position as soon as possible because it restricts their breathing.

FRANK: When you handcuff somebody behind their back -- well, as part of training, have you been handcuffed behind the back?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

FRANK: And have you been trained on what happens to individuals when they're handcuffed behind the back?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

FRANK: So when somebody is handcuffed behind their back, how does it affect them physically?

ZIMMERMAN: It stretches the muscles back through your chest and it makes it more difficult to breathe.

FRANK: If you put somebody in the prone position -- well, is it well known, this danger of putting somebody in the prone position?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, misleading.

JUDGE PETER CAHILL, HENNEPIN COUNTY, MINNESOTA: Sustained.

FRANK: How long have you had training on the dangers of the prone position as part of a Minneapolis Police officer?

ZIMMERMAN: For -- since 1985.

FRANK: And is it part of your training regularly to learn about keeping somebody in the prone position?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

FRANK: And what has the training been with regard to the prone position?

ZIMMERMAN: Once a person is cuffed, you need to turn them on their side or have them sit up. You need to get them off their chest.

FRANK: Why?

ZIMMERMAN: Because of the -- as I mentioned earlier, your muscles are pulling back when you're handcuffs. And if you're laying on your chest, that's constricting your breathing even more.

FRANK: In your training, as a trained police officer, are you provided with training on medical intervention?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

FRANK: I assume you're not, you know, taught to be paramedics, but you receive some level of training.

ZIMMERMAN: Yes. We're first responders, I think, is what our category would be.

FRANK: Does that include doing what we think of as CPR, chest compressions?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

FRANK: How often is that part of your training?

ZIMMERMAN: CPR, it's like every other year or so.

FRANK: And as part of your training within the Minneapolis policies, is there an obligation to provide medical intervention when necessary?

[11:45:03]

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.

FRANK: What is the general teaching that you get with regard to medical intervention?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, again, it's been that you need to provide medical care for a person that is in distress.

FRANK: And would that be true even if you have called an ambulance to come to the scene?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, absolutely. You know, the ambulance will get there in whatever amount of time, and in that time period, you need to provide medical assistance before they arrive.

CAHILL: Why don't we take our mid-morning break? Members of the jury, we'll take our 20-minute mid-morning break. The attorneys are going to help you with an issue while you're on break. And, Lieutenant, you may step down if you wish.

GOLODRYGA: And the court is going to be taking a 20-minute break now on day five of testimony in the trial of officer Derek Chauvin.

I want to bring in our experts and our panel right now to discuss what we have just been listening to.

Laura Coates, while we were away and taking the president's commentary, I want to tell our viewers what we heard from Minneapolis Police officer, Veteran Police officer over 40 years, Lieutenant Richard Zimmerman. Because this was really telling, the lawyer, the prosecutor asked are there different kinds of force that officers can use? Have you ever been trained to kneel on the neck of someone handcuffed in prone position?

The police officer, Lieutenant Zimmerman, said, no, I haven't. Would you consider that force? What level of force he was asked, that would top tier, the deadly force. Why? Zimmerman says, because if you kneel -- if your knee is on somebody's neck, that can kill them.

That sort of lays out exactly what we saw for nine minutes and 29 seconds. What was your take on that?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Wow. That was astounding testimony, really, the most compelling law enforcement testimony we've heard in this trial to date, Bianna, because, of course, common sense would dictate. You would tell a child don't kneel on the neck of another child because you would inherently know of the risk.

To hear this coming from a veteran officer who says that he's known about the danger of being able to breathe in a handcuffed prone position since 1985, he's been trained on this issue, talking about this as a use of deadly force. It blows out of the water any notion that the officer was trained to sustain this level of force on somebody once they were no longer posing any conceivable threat.

I don't know how you're going to cross-examination on somebody who is a 40-year veteran on this issue of training combined with common sense because, again, it's not whether an officer can generally use force. It's about whether the sustained use of force transformed from reasonable use of force by an officer to felony assault underlying the second-degree murder charge.

I mean, it's blowing me away to think about the idea of this officer so matter-of-factly saying what common sense has dictated. A knee on somebody's neck could kill them. Sustaining that knee on the neck even after force is even reasonably required, where do you go from here as the defendant?

GOLODRYGA: And, Chief Ramsey, you have been talking about appropriate force and what isn't considered appropriate force for us throughout this trial. Right now, we have heard from two police officers, two Minneapolis Police officers give their take on what they view in particular with Lieutenant Zimmerman on what he viewed was appropriate force and what's not appropriate force. Would you concur with the testimony that you heard from him?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. And I'm not surprised at his testimony because what he's doing is he's simply -- he's simply referring to his training and also his knowledge. Remember, this guy is in homicide. He's been in homicide for quite a while. He deals with death on a regular basis, unfortunately. And so he knows exactly what he's talking about.

Everything about that was wrong. He talked about the prone position, restrictive breathing. We call it positional asphyxia. And if you have a person in that position, which you may well have to put them in that position to get them under control, but you get them out of that position as soon as you can.

Again, they talked about that critical decision-making model. You have to constantly reassess. Is the threat still there? Is the resistance still there? If the answer is no, then you stop. There is no reason to continue. And there is not a department in this country that has as part of their training after your resistance stops continue to use the same level of force that you used before.

[11:50:05]

It makes no sense. And that is not in our training.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Lieutenant Zimmerman said, once a person is cuffed, you need to get them off of their chest because that's constricting breathing even more.

He was also asked about CPR training and being trained as a first responder. He said that that training is conducted and reevaluated every few years. They have to go under certain protocol to make sure that they are still certified to provide that training. And he said that you are under the obligation to provide medical intervention when necessary when a person is in distress, even after an ambulance has been called.

How damning was that given what we know transpired the night of George Floyd's death?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, very damning. I mean, officers are given CPR training and you have to get recertified every couple of years. Officers now in many departments, I know in the ones that I led, have learned how to use tourniquets effectively for people suffering from gunshot wounds, how to apply direct pressure to an open wound on the chest. I mean, you do get -- you're not an EMT but you do get some level of training to be able to assist an individual until the proper medical personnel can arrive at the scene.

So he's absolutely right, all they have to do is go back in Chauvin's history show that he's had that level of training and is certified, the same with the other three officers, all of them should have been CPR certified, certainly. And that would have been appropriate to use that particular technique under the circumstances once it became apparent that he was no longer breathing.

If I can just add one, because I started to say something earlier, if there's time?

GOLODRYGA: Yes, go ahead.

RAMSEY: There're just minor procedural things that, to me, it's not so minor but I don't know the protocols in Minneapolis. But you had four officers on the scene of that incident. We never would have left them there. I mean, you separate them. You get them to either internal affairs or I guess they got a room 100 down in city hall or whatever. But when Sergeant Edwards got there, two of them were still there in the car together. I mean, that, to me, is a process or a procedure that the department needs to look at because that's not typically what you would do.

And the other thing, and this really goes to Laura being an attorney, I found it curious when they continued to -- when the defense continued to allow the prosecution and the witness to refer to it as the crime scene. At the time, it had not been determined that a crime had been committed. Normally, we would simply call that a critical incident scene, not a crime scene. And if I were a defense attorney, I wouldn't want that word being floated around to the jury too often because I'm there arguing it is not a crime, that the officers did nothing wrong.

So I was just kind of curious about that, Laura.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Laura, do you want to weigh in?

COATES: Yes, I do. Well, the thing about, if you were -- if there's a conviction and there were to be an appeal, the appellate court would look to see whether an objection has been weighed in this area here. If you don't object, you can oftentimes lose the ability to bring that up later on.

But here's another example of why the defense, in questioning why the defense has allowed a number of things to go on. Normally, if you have a very emotional witness, if you've got the witness testifying, they're crying, they've evoking a lot sentiment and resonates with the jury, you do everything you can to derail the monologue. They haven't done that a number of times and allowed a lot of things to linger in the air.

Now, they will have to reflect on the consequence of that because, remember, the defense case is in the future and they're never required to actually bring one. It's always the government's burden to actually prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

There are some lapses in judgment, you're obviously seeing here, but I have to note what Charles is talking about. These other officers are due to stand trial in the future. Now, of course, they're accessories, calling them, accomplice liability, so a lot of their convictions might be contingent on what happens in this particular trial. But the idea they're kept together, I want to know are we going to hear the body cam footage about what they said right after George Floyd was taken away? How about after they were notified he died? Remember, the sergeant, Edwards, said when I got on the scene, I told them turn on your body cams if they aren't already on. So is there a lapse in time for what they actually knew to then when we look at here?

And, finally, Bianna, we're talking about CPR training, we're talking about all of these things. If you, right now, if you were told, take your pulse, move your knee, think of the minimal efforts required, you'd need not be CPR trained, you don't have to be an EMT, you would put your fingers to your neck, on your wrist, move your knee. That's the minimal effort we're talking about here to get to the life saving measures that needed to be taken, or as the paramedic said, to give him a second chance of life. They could have precluded this by very minor actions.

The question still remains for these jurors, why didn't Derek Chauvin do that?

[11:55:03]

It's antithetical to training. It just simply belies common sense. He still has explaining to do. And as of yet, the defense has not been able, in any case, to answer that question.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, as you said, antithetical to training, because as we had seen from those witnesses who had not been police officers, though one of them was an EMT, so trained to attend to somebody who's in distress, their instinct was to help them, right? Now that we've heard from veteran police officers is that is in fact what the protocol is, you have to wonder how damning that is and what impact that's going to have on the jury.

Quickly, before we go in this last moment, Laura, I want to get your sense, was it weird or not, in your opinion, that the defense didn't cross-exam the first police officer?

COATES: I think it was odd in the sense that they are trying -- they didn't address that issue of the officer on the scene. But, remember, these defense attorneys are not worried about the other three. They're worried about the one who is actually standing trial now.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, that is right. Laura Coates, thank you so much. We really appreciate having you on.

And, of course, we'll have more of the trial of former Police Officer Derek Chauvin after a quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:00]