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.Day Six of Witness Testimony in Ex-Cop's Murder Trial; Health Expert Says, U.S. in Category 5 Hurricane with New Cases; Capitol Police Union Chair Says, We're Struggling to Meet Our Mission. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 05, 2021 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DR. BRADFORD WANKHEDE LANGENFELD, E.R. PHYSICIAN WHO ATTENDED TO GEORGE FLOYD: In particular, excited delirium, which is a controversial diagnosis, but it was in the differential in this case.

[11:30:11]

JERRY BLACKWELL, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: And were you able to make any assessments about so-called excited delirium based on your examination of Mr. Floyd?

LANGENFELD: Again, the patient had been in cardiac arrest for 30 minutes. It can be difficult based on the examination. Certainly, there was no report that the patient was ever very sweaty, which is often the case when thinking about excited delirium. There was no report that the patient had ever been -- that Mr. Floyd had ever been extremely agitated.

In my experience, seeing a lot of cases of mental health crises or drug use leading to severe agitated states, that is almost always reported by paramedics. And so the absence of that information was telling in that I didn't have any reason to believe that that was the case here.

BLACKWELL: So when you -- how long was Mr. Floyd in your care in the emergency department?

LANGENFELD: Approximately 30 minutes.

BLACKWELL: And at the end of the 30 minutes, did you pronounce him formally dead?

LANGENFELD: Yes.

BLACKWELL: At the time you pronounced him dead, was he still in some degree in PEA or asystole in terms of describing his heart?

LANGENFELD: I think it's probably best to think of these as sort of a spectrum where PEA is some degree of electrical activity still running through the heart but the heart is not pumping. And then, eventually, that will evolve into asystole, where the heart is not pumping and then the electrical activity stops as well. And so at the end of the case, Mr. Floyd was still in PEA but there was virtually no cardiac activity. And at that point, in the absence of any apparent reversible cause and because Mr. Floyd had been in arrest for by this time, 60 minutes, I determined that the likelihood of any meaningful outcome was far below 1 percent and that we would not be able to resuscitate Mr. Floyd. And so I then pronounced him dead.

BLACKWELL: And, Doctor, was your leading theory then for the cause of Mr. Floyd's cardiac arrest oxygen deficiency?

LANGENFELD: That was one of the more likely possibilities. I felt that at the time based on the information I had, it was more likely than the other possibilities.

BLACKWELL: And, Doctor, is there another name for death by oxygen deficiency?

LANGENFELD: Asphyxia is a commonly understood term.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, Dr. Langenfeld. No further questions.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWSROOM: All right, we're going to jump back out. They're having more discussion inside the courtroom.

Let me get back over to Laura Coates, as we've been listening more to the testimony, Laura, from this doctor that tried to resuscitate George Floyd. We hear now that they worked on him for 30 minutes to try to save his life and then declared him dead. And right at the end, what did you make of that with that final question from the prosecutor about asphyxia?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: That was very key moment. Not only did you learn that it was a total of about 60 minutes that George Floyd was under cardiac arrest but the more likely possibility had actually caused that cardiac arrest, the doctor was very careful to say, was hypoxia, loss or depravation of oxygen.

And, colloquially, what is that? Asphyxia, asphyxiation. We have a link here through the testimony now that, Kate, that suggests that the person who ultimately declared George Floyd dead and tried to save his life in the E.R. was eliminating possibilities based on what the paramedics had not tell him, a very telling moment was the idea of, hey, if drugs had been an issue, if overdosing had been suspected, if the person's behavior indicated that that was a possibility, wouldn't the paramedics have said that?

In his experience, yes, they often offer that information. The absence of that information allowed him to eliminate a number of possibilities and say with quite clarity there that he believed that the most dead on possibility, forgive the pun, the most appropriate possibility that caused that cardiac arrest here was the loss of oxygen.

[11:35:17]

What do we know that could cause that, Kate? Having a knee to a neck. We have causal factor here. The prosecution needs this link to be able to bring that excessive force allegation along with the potential causal factor to get them the elements they need to prove their homicide, murder and eventually, if possible, manslaughter charges as well.

BOLDUAN: We just heard -- the control room just told me that they have announced a 20 minute break in the trial, and then they'll be coming back.

For more, Chief, one question that I have is as we've been listening to kind of this methodical walking through what happened, what the paramedics knew, what the doctor was told, the report to the doctor who tried to save his life, what is the policy or protocol for communication between officers on the scene when the paramedics come to take -- come upon a situation like this?

I wonder, because one of the things that was brought up, Chief, and was asked of the doctor was, they described it as a severe agitated state. It is often something the doctor said that is conveyed by the paramedics if it is something that that doctor would need to know when they get to the E.R.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. Normally, if that were the case, and I've seen people that are going through that particular state that we refer to as excited delirium and, yes, that is something that you would definitely mention to the paramedics, there would be no reason for you not to, right? It doesn't appear there was very little, if any, communication between the officers and the paramedics at the time, that the paramedics arrived.

So if you believe that there was something unusual or something perhaps wrong with an individual, you would let them know. Because, again, that would be important for them in terms of how they treat and how care for that individual. They shouldn't have to start from scratch if you have information that could be critical.

And so I thought it was very important when he did mention why he eliminated -- or at least thought it was less likely that excited delirium or anything like that was possible. They do sweat profusely. They are highly agitated. I mean, these are things that really are very apparent on the scene at the time. So I thought it was interesting when he mentioned that, because none of that was the case with George Floyd.

BOLDUAN: And as you pointed out earlier, Chief, because everything -- every second is critical, we all know this when someone is in cardiac arrest. The doctor laying out that there is 10 to 15 percent decrease in survival rate for every minute that CPR is not rendered. You can count those minutes as you're even watching it on that video, Chief.

RAMSEY: Yes. Whenever you have a person in distress, I mean, if you've got a person who is not breathing, you apply CPR. You may not save him but do you everything you possibly can until paramedics arrive to take over. And paramedics do everything they can until they can get him to a hospital or a doctor to try to save him. So every step along the way, everyone is trying to save the life, or the at least that's what should be taking place, and that didn't happen.

And just one final thing, I know we focus a lot on the knee on the neck, and certainly that is an issue, there's no question about it. But there is also pressure being applied to his back. And when you're in a prone position with positional asphyxia, you're still restricting your breathing of that individual by applying that weight on them because their chest can expand and contract like it would normally do when they're breathing.

So you have got not only the issue with the knee on the neck, you've also got the issue on not only Chauvin but the officer next to him, I believe, who was Lane, who looked like he's actually kneeling on Floyd's back. And in training, I mean, that's something that they talk about constantly. That's why roll him on the side, that's why you get him up because of the pressure. It's unusual to have somebody with a knee on a neck, like you saw with Chauvin, put pressure on the back, yes, that is more typical. And that's why you don't want to hold him in that position very long. Handcuff him and get him up.

BOLDUAN: Real quick, Laura, when they come back after the 20 minutes, we assume that the defense will be able to ask questions of the doctor. What do you -- what is the challenge that they're up against now?

COATES: Well, they're up against a challenge of the idea that the contrast between those who had and owed a duty of care to George Floyd and those who failed to perform it. You see the only people who seemed to failed to actually perform a duty of care owed to someone in their custody is Derek Chauvin and the other officers. You contrast that to the paramedics.

[11:40:00]

You contrast that now to the E.R. doctor.

And, again, this idea split second decisions is usually one reserved for police officers in giving the benefit of the doubt. Remember that opening statement by the lead prosecutor, Jerry Blackwell, who said this was nine minutes and 29 seconds, not a split second among them.

Compare that to what the paramedics had to decide in a split second. In that split second, they knew somebody was unconscious, was seemingly dead, they had to relay information to another person to make a split second decision, the E.R. doctor. And in those moments, they gave the most accurate information they had based on their training, their duty of care owed and they eliminated drug overdose. They did not mention the idea of a heart attack.

And in that moment, the defense is going to have to try to understand and pick apart why the doctor using all of his expertise and his training and his ideas about what was going on and the information he had, had to pick apart why that doctor was able to perform 30 minutes worth of duty of care and why he was able to eliminate or at least dwindle down the possibility of what could have caused this death.

And he did not think the heart attack. Did he not see the craziness that Derek Chauvin talked to his sergeant about. They're going to have a really hard road ahead of them trying to undermine this very disinterested in the sense of not having an agenda to push witness.

BOLDUAN: Yes. The emotion that we saw so much last week is absent from this doctor but doctors are supposed to be without emotion. But this is some critical information that seems to be being established in this testimony here.

We're going take a quick break. We are all watching together day six of testimony in the trial of Derek Chauvin. We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:00]

BOLDUAN: Any moment, we're expecting the Derek Chauvin trial to resume. We have been watching another day of crucial testimony in that trial over the killing of George Floyd. The E.R. doctor who tried to save George Floyd's life is on the stand, has been so far this morning. We're going to bring you back to the courtroom as soon as they begin again.

At the very same time, we're watching very latest on the coronavirus. COVID-19 vaccinations are happening at a record pace in the United States right now. On Saturday alone, 4 million people got either the first or second shot. Still, there are many concerns about a possible fourth wave of infections on the way. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY: At this time, we really are in a Category 5 hurricane status with regard to the rest of the world. At this point, we will see in the next two weeks the highest number of cases reported globally since the beginning of the pandemic.

In terms of the United States, we're just at the beginning of the surge. We haven't even really begun to see it yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: But there is some debate over that now with millions getting vaccinated every day. I want you to listen here to the former FDA commissioner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: I don't think it's going to be a true fourth wave. I think we've probably delayed the point at which we can get this behind us. Well, we haven't forestalled that opportunity. I think with the rate of vaccination that we're having right now, we're vaccinating, as you say, four million people a day, I think that's probably going to reach 5 million people a day. And the level of immunity that we already have in the population, we vaccinated more than 100 million Americans, we probably infected about 130 million Americans. So you have somewhere around 200 million Americans that have some level of immunity in them already.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: New COVID-19 infections are up 19 percent over the last two weeks. Cases among young people are on the rise. That is where especially experts are much watching right now. And at least 19 states are seeing new infections go up compared to the week before.

Another layer to all of this is more and more people are getting out, out and about. The TSA says more people traveled over the holiday weekend than at any point since the pandemic began.

For the very latest on that, let's get over to CNN's Pete Muntean. He's at Reagan National Airport outside of D.C.

Pete, what do these numbers show?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, these numbers are huge for the pandemic. The TSA screened 1.54 million people at airports across the country yesterday, 1.4 million people on Saturday, 1.58 million people on Friday. That is the new pandemic record. And all of this means about 6 million people have flown since Thursday.

Compare these numbers to a year ago. These numbers are about ten times greater than where we were at this point in 2020, but still only about two-thirds of what numbers were pre-pandemic back in 2019. So it's still a long way to go, but the numbers so big that Delta Airlines had to actually fill some middle seats onboard its flights.

Remember, Delta has been capping capacity on flights since it's done with that policy come May 1st, but it had to do this this weekend to keep up with demand. And it seems that the numbers will only go up from here.

The CDC is telling vaccinating Americans that they can travel right now with low risk to themselves but the CDC is also saying in the same breathe that you should avoid travel for non-essential reasons. And the CDC says, if you do travel, be smart about it. You have to wear a mask in airports and in terminals where masks like this are federally mandated, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Pete, thank you very much.

[11:50:00]

Any minute now, we're expecting testimony in the trial of Derek Chauvin to resume. We have been hearing from the doctor who treated George Floyd when he arrived to the E.R., the doctor who pronounced Floyd dead that night. We're going to bring you back to the courtroom as soon as that resumes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BOLDUAN: We are standing by to head back to Minneapolis where the judge just announced a short break in the trial of Derek Chauvin.

This morning we have heard testimony from the E.R. doctor who treated George Floyd and pronounced him dead that night. This is the first witness at the start of week two of this trial. We're going to bring you back to the courtroom very shortly as they're expected to begin again soon.

In the meantime, we want to head to Washington where U.S. Capitol Police are starting a new week in mourning and on heightened alert. Their union chief has just put Congress on notice that the officers, their officers are struggling to do their mission, struggling to meet their mission. This comes after their fellow officer, William Evans, was killed Friday, when a man rammed a car into a police barricade then jumped out with a knife and lunged at the officers.

CNN Congressional Correspondent Jessica Dean is on Capitol Hill watching all of this. Jessica, this latest attack is raising new security concerns at the Capitol. What are you hearing from lawmakers now?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, lawmakers are certainly heartbroken and devastated over what happened here on Friday. But what we are hearing from them is that they want to find this balance between allowing the Capitol to be open in a way that it has been known for for so many years, it is the people's House. People can come here and visit their lawmakers, but also, ensuring security for the lawmakers here, for the people that work here. And where is that balance? What does that look like?

Now, we certainly did get a report, you remember, the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tasked retired retired Lieutenant General Russel Honore with putting together this report to lay out what they needed. That came in with those recommendations that included putting some retractable fencing up, hiring a number, hundreds more Capitol Police officers to serve this mission, a number of recommendations that would need roughly $2 billion in funding.

[11:55:14]

And right now, it's just kind of stalled as to where that goes from here. Can they get bipartisan support to pass that funding package? And what exactly does it look like? What do they all agree to fund and what do they think is appropriate?

You mentioned the union president putting out that statement, putting Congress on notice. I want to read you part of that. It says, we are struggling to meet existing mission requirements even with the officers working massive amounts of forced overtime. I've had many younger officers confide in me that they're actively looking at other agencies and departments right now. So, really, a dire situation here in terms of what they need per the union president. Kate?

BOLDUAN: I'm going to jump in real quick, we're going to head back to the trial of Derek Chauvin getting underway once again. JUDGE PETER CAHILL, HENNEPIN COUNTY, MINNESOTA: And just a reminder, Doctor, you are still under oath.

Mr. Nelson?

ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning, Doctor.

LANGENFELD: Good morning.

NELSON: Thank you for being here today. I have a few follow-up questions for you kind of picking up right where we left off.

You were discussing hypoxia kind of being consistent with asphyxiation, right?

LANGENFELD: Correct.

NELSON: Hypoxia is the lack of oxygen to the brain, correct?

LANGENFELD: Correct.

NELSON: And there are many things that cause hypoxia that would still be considered asphyxiation, agreed?

LANGENFELD: Correct.

NELSON: Drug use, certain drugs can cause hypoxia, agreed?

LANGENFELD: Yes.

NELSON: Specifically fentanyl?

LANGENFELD: That's correct.

NELSON: How about methamphetamine?

LANGENFELD: It can.

NELSON: Combination of the two?

LANGENFELD: Yes.

NELSON: All right. Now, you testified about certain things that happened during your care of Mr. Floyd. You were running all sorts of different tests. You were -- you used the -- I'm sorry, the --

LANGENFELD: Ultrasound.

NELSON: Ultrasound, thank you. You used the ultrasound, you took blood samples as well.

LANGENFELD: Correct.

NELSON: And you took some blood gas samples as well, correct?

LANGENFELD: Correct, from the blood samples, yes. NELSON: So can you explain what the blood gas samples are?

LANGENFELD: So the blood gas samples are analyzing different parts of the blood, specifically looking at the P.H., or how acidic or basic the blood is, looking at the amount of oxygen in the blood, the amount of carbon dioxide, the amount of bicarbonate.

NELSON: And carbon dioxide levels in this case were pretty high, weren't they?

LANGENFELD: Correct.

NELSON: Do you recall what the blood -- the carbon dioxide level was in your blood gas sample you initially took?

LANGENFELD: I believe the initial blood gas sample I took was venous blood gas sample, which is less preferable as opposed to an arterial blood gas sample. At the time, I believed it was a venous sample and I believe the CO2 level in that sample was around 100.

NELSON: Okay. A little over 100, perhaps?

LANGENFELD: Yes.

NELSON: And that indicates an exceptionally high carbon dioxide level?

LANGENFELD: Agreed, yes.

NELSON: What would the average for a healthy person, and you did a blood gas sample, what would you expect the CO2 or carbon dioxide level to be?

LANGENFELD: For a healthy individual without any sort of lung disease, you would expect somewhere between 35 and 45.

NELSON: Okay. And so Mr. Floyd's carbon dioxide level was more than two times what you would normally expect?

LANGENFELD: Correct.

NELSON: Now, when you -- the reason that you're doing these blood gas samples is, in part, to help you analyze and figure out courses of care, agreed?

LANGENFELD: Yes.

NELSON: And that -- that's -- the carbon dioxide number that we're talking about is essentially -- that would be indicative of a person who is not eliminating the carbon dioxide, right, for it to go that way?

LANGENFELD: Correct. For it to be high in the blood, that means that they are therefore not eliminating it through ventilation or breathing. [12:00:00]

NELSON: And that's -- that points to a possible respiratory problem, right?

LANGENFELD: It can, yes.

NELSON: And that - that.