Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

DMX Dies; Republican Congressman Calls For Matt Gaetz to Resign; Prince Philip Dies; Expert Testimony Continues in Derek Chauvin Trial. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 09, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:03]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Our special coverage continues now with Brooke Baldwin.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: You are watching CNN on this Friday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

Day 10 today in the Derek Chauvin murder trial there in Minneapolis. Hours of testimony today from this forensic pathologist has been so important for helping the jury really understand the final moments of George Floyd's life and whether the former Minneapolis police officer is indeed responsible for his death.

The court is on a lunch break right now. We will get you back to those proceedings as soon as they get under way.

After the break, we do expect -- expect to see the chief medical examiner who wrote George Floyd's autopsy. But let me just play this clip for you. This is what this expert pathologist has testified so far today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. LINDSEY THOMAS, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: There was nothing sudden about his death.

So, that's what I would have expected if it was a cardiac arrhythmia or an abnormal beating of the heart. Typically, those are someone really falls over pretty quickly, and this was not that.

Likewise, it was not the type of death that has been reported in fentanyl overdose, for example, where somebody becomes very sleepy and then just sort of gradually, calmly, peacefully stops breathing. This was not that kind of a death.

So, I felt comfortable ruling out those as causes of death. This is a death where both the heart and lungs stopped working. And the point is that it's due to law enforcement subdual, restraint and compression.

What it means to me is that the activities of the law enforcement officers resulted in Mr. Floyd's death, and that, specifically, those activities were the subdual, the restraint and the neck compression.

JERRY BLACKWELL, MINNESOTA PROSECUTOR: And does this then also represent your own conclusion?

THOMAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All of this testimony so far, I know it's been traumatic for so many just Americans sitting there and following along this trial.

So it's hard to imagine what these past 10 days have been like for the family of George Floyd.

My next guest is George Floyd's cousin, Shareeduh Tate.

Ms. Tate, my deepest condolences to you and, of course, to your family. Thank you for joining me.

How are you? How is your family holding up through all of this?

SHAREEDUH TATE, COUSIN OF GEORGE FLOYD: Thank you for asking.

I think that we're doing about as well as you can expect. I mean, as we go through reliving this testimony is bringing back thoughts of what we were going through the very first time when the tape was released showing his murder.

And so I think we are dealing with it as best that we can.

BALDWIN: I read that you were, you put it, pessimistically optimistic about this trial, even before it started.

Shareeduh, how are you feeling 10 days in?

TATE: Well, I will tell you, with the testimony, I have been really pleased with the prosecution thus far, particularly on yesterday.

And I thought, today, the testimony from the experts really drove home what we thought all along, is that his cause of death was from the neck compression and not from the drug overdose. I believe based on thus far, I think that it's going in the right direction.

BALDWIN: You know, this trial really comes down to how your cousin died. You listen to the defense, the defense has been relying heavily on George Floyd's drug use and the presence of drugs, specifically fentanyl, in his system that day in May last year.

The prosecution has been making the case that it was Derek Chauvin's knee for nearly 10 minutes that ended your cousin's life. Has there been any particular moment, one moment for you, Shareeduh, that really has stood out?

TATE: Well, what really has stood out for me is probably a couple of things.

I talk about the very first day of the trial because it was the first time that I actually saw the video. So, that definitely stuck out for me, and the way that Mr. Blackwell just kind of laid it out, like step by step, even calculating the number of times that he said that he couldn't breathe and what have you.

And, also, I would have to say the testimony of Mr. McMillian was very moving for me.

[14:05:03]

BALDWIN: The community elder who had been...

TATE: Yes.

BALDWIN: He was really the last person who had ever spoken to George Floyd, as we see him there as a bystander.

TATE: Yes.

BALDWIN: And how he broke down, broke down that day.

TATE: Yes. Yes.

And his response to it was like -- there is now a lot of prayers and support for our family, but I would ask that be for the same for these bystanders and these people who are testifying, but who are essentially having to relive the fact that they watched this murder in real time.

So, I really liked the way that he seemed to really connect with what was going on. And, also, there was a -- the clip from talking, trying to talk with Derek Chauvin about his opinion about what had happened. And to hear him then say, well, that's just your opinion, was also something that stood out for me.

BALDWIN: What did you make of Derek Chauvin's response in that moment? Because we saw a couple of days ago -- you see Mr. McMillian speaking to the officer after everything happened.

And I had a lawyer on my show saying he was surprised how calm, given everything that had just happened, how calm Derek Chauvin was.

What did you make of that.

TATE: Well, I thought that his response was consistent with what I thought about him all along, someone who is very callous, lacking care and compassion and concern for the people that he was sworn to protect and serve.

So, it really did not surprise me. In fact, it just solidified in my mind what I thought about him all along.

BALDWIN: I should be clear, the lawyer meant calm as in a pejorative way. Like, given everything that had just happened, he was a bit too calm for the situation.

TATE: Yes.

BALDWIN: You are so gracious in offering prayers for those eyewitnesses that day, of course, in addition to you and your family. And it must be -- it is traumatic, I know. In talking to so many people, it is traumatic for so many Americans to watch this trial. I can't even imagine what it's like for you and your family, but particularly, Shareeduh, for black Americans who are wondering, depending on which way the justice system goes in this case, as to whether or not their lives really do matter.

And I'm curious what you're hearing from the community, and how you view it.

TATE: Well, I think the community most of them are feeling the same way that I do.

When I speak about being pessimistically optimistic, I'm talking about the fact that we have been in a place where officers have been to court, and we did not get the conviction.

And so, even though it seems like it should be a slam dunk, for lack of a better term, that we watched this play out on tape, we just are waiting, because we know that it's not a foregone conclusion that we will end up with a conviction.

I believe that we will, but I think the community is echoing my sentiments.

BALDWIN: We wait. We watch to see.

In the meantime, my last question. Last summer, the world watched as Floyd's 7-year-old daughter, Gianna, was caught saying these few words at this demonstration. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. Daddy changed the world.

GIANNA FLOYD, DAUGHTER OF GEORGE FLOYD: Daddy changed the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did what?

FLOYD: Daddy changed the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daddy changed the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Daddy saved the world.

How is she doing now, and how much does she understand about all of this?

TATE: I mean, I think she is doing well, about as well as you can expect. She is just 7.

So, it's limited, I think, in my mind, knowledge about everything that's going on. I think her mother is doing a good job of making sure that she is shielded from as much as she possibly can. But when I see her, she seems to be doing well, all things considered.

BALDWIN: Ms. Tate, again, prayers, condolences. Thank you so much for spending the time with me. I appreciate you.

TATE: And thank you once again for having me.

BALDWIN: Of course.

We will get all of you back to this trial in Minneapolis once it resumes.

Also coming up, reaction from across the world to two huge losses, that the palace in England mourning the death of Prince Philip.

And, also, fans are in shock after the death of rap icon DMX.

Plus, Pfizer taking a key step toward making their COVID-19 vaccine available to kids under 16.

You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:14:21]

BALDWIN: Britain is in a state of national mourning.

The palace announced this morning that Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh and husband to Queen Elizabeth II, has died at the age of 99. The former naval officer had recently spent time in the hospital for heart surgery and to treat an infection. The palace says he passed away peacefully this morning at Windsor Castle.

Prince Philip was the queen's wingman, her closest confidant and political adviser. They had been married for more than seven decades and had four children. Tributes are pouring in, as the world remembers the duke's impact and influence on the monarchy.

[14:15:00]

Max Foster is our CNN royal correspondent. He is standing by with some reaction.

And I know you're in Windsor, where the funeral services will be held.

I mean, he -- 99. He leaves behind such an incredible legacy.

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, a lot of people saying he had a good run, but I think he will be missed.

For most people in the United Kingdom and across the commonwealth, he has been always been there in their lives. And he no longer will be. And he was sometimes a divisive figure. He had this very sort of wicked sense of humor. Sometimes, people didn't really like that.

But they do appreciate, I think, broadly what he did for the queen. It was described to me today by someone that knows the queen and Prince Philip, quite well, or has known over the years, that it was quite poignant, really. They describe the sort of sense of humor that the two of them shared. And that was a great connection and a great support for the queen.

But it was also described as Prince Philip was the only person the queen could be normal with. Even her own children have to curtsy or bow when they meet her. There's always a formality around her, apart from with Prince Philip. And that has now gone, so the queen in the castle behind me on her own in a bubble now, a great sense of loss for her.

And people were very much feeling for her today. And people are doing what they can to come out and pay tribute to Prince Philip. These are a few of the voices we heard outside Buckingham Palace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED YOUTH: He was a big symbol for a lot of people in England, and it's nice to pay our respects to him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have deep respect for the queen. I love her. I think she's a wonderful woman. And I'm very sad for her today, because she's lost her life partner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he embodies everything about the country, really. And I think he's just a real kind of royal (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This morning, I was in tears. And it's just sudden news about him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he was a complicated man, but he was very hardworking. And she loved him. And I think, in his way, he loved her. And I think that was wonderful. And it was a very, very long love story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, despite his age, a lot of people really shocked by the news, and the grieving.

The great difficulty, though, Brooke is that the government and the police are trying to encourage people not to go and lay flowers. They're worried about the spread of coronavirus. So, people are going to have to find some other way of grieving.

It's quite a tense atmosphere, I'd say, actually, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I was just at a doctor's appointment this morning sitting next to a woman from Anguilla and I heard her go, "Oh," and I know exactly what story she was reading on her phone, that he had passed away.

Max Foster, thank you very, very much.

Now, also, fans and music lovers are mourning the death of rap icon DMX. Born Earl Simmons, he died after being placed on life support for nearly a week following a heart attack. His family shared in a statement that he was -- quote -- "a warrior who fought until the very end."

Known for his signature raspy growl on hits like "Ruff Ryders' Anthem," DMX will also -- he also became a film star and most recently he appeared alongside Snoop Dogg for the wildly popular "Verzuz" battle.

He was 50 years old.

Political pressure is mounting on Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz. It's not just from the left either. The first Republican member of Congress is now calling on the Florida congressman who is facing federal investigation and sex trafficking allegations against him to resign.

Illinois Congressman Adam Kinzinger took to Twitter last night, urging his colleague to step down, pointing to this Daily Beast article about these Venmo payments that Congressman Gaetz allegedly made to his associate-turned-indicted Florida official Joel Greenberg.

CNN has not confirmed the details of the allegations in that story.

CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid, is on this.

And so, Paula, we are now learning, with all these developments, that Congressman Gaetz is now beefing up his legal team. What do you know?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's why.

He has added to New York defense attorneys to his team that now includes at least four attorneys in Florida and in New York. I have calls out to them to understand how exactly they're going to divide this case up, as it becomes increasingly complicated.

As you noted, a new report saying that Venmo records obtained by The Daily Beast show that, in May of 2018, Gaetz sent about $900 to his friend and then Seminole County tax collector Joel Greenberg, $900. And then the next morning, Greenberg transferred money totaling that same amount to three women.

Now, Brooke, there's no indication that these women were underage. We have not confirmed this. And we don't know what these payments were for. But just yesterday, an attorney for Greenberg was in court, and he revealed the Greenberg is likely to enter a plea deal with the government to resolve his own case, where he's facing over 30 federal criminal counts.

And it is expected that, as part of that plea deal, he is likely going to have to cooperate share what he knows about Congressman Gaetz. And this is a perfect example of something they could potentially ask him: What was this money for? Why did it go to you and to these women? Why didn't it go directly from Mr. Gaetz?

[14:20:11] This is the kind of transaction that Mr. Greenberg could potentially have to give information to the feds about.

BALDWIN: We will see what this all means for Matt Gaetz, the man himself.

Paula Reid, thank you very much for the latest there today.

Any moment now, we will get you back to Minneapolis, inside the trial of the former police officer there, Derek Chauvin. We are waiting to hear key testimony today from the medical examiner, chief medical examiner, in this case.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:18]

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Any moment now, we expect testimony to resume, day 10 of the testimony in the trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin.

Back with me today, CNN legal analyst Elie Honig, CNN law enforcement analyst Chief Charles Ramsey, and Dr. Joye Carter, currently a forensic pathologist and works directly with law enforcement officers. She's also a former chief medical examiner, so, perfect as we go into this next bit of testimony.

Elie, just set us up first. We know that Dr. Thomas had testified earlier that -- quote -- "The activities of the law enforcement officers resulted in Mr. Floyd's death."

What does her testimony tell you?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Brooke, I thought it was really compelling testimony.

It can be a tricky thing for a prosecutor in a murder trial to present evidence from a medical examiner. That evidence tends to be technical, scientific, even gruesome. Here, however, I thought this witness, Dr. Thomas, was very clear. I think she talked directly to the jury. She explained the science in a really clear manner.

She was like sort of if you get a really good college professor.

I think the prosecutor gets some credit too in the way he examined her. He would ask her several times, what do you mean by that? Or a couple times, he said, what's the bottom line there? And I think, as a result, her conclusion that this death, that George Floyd's death was caused by lack of oxygen due to Derek Chauvin's actions, came through crystal clear to the jury.

BALDWIN: Dr. Carter, Dr. Thomas today testified that but for the interaction with the police, George Floyd would have lived that day. The defense seems to be trying to establish that Floyd's heart was in

such bad shape that he was particularly susceptible to death because of his exertion, his drug use before the officers held him down. What did you make of Dr. Thomas' testimony that George Floyd would have lived if it weren't for his arrest that day?

DR. JOYE CARTER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, one of the basic philosophies of forensic pathology is you take the victim as you find them.

And so circumstances of death are very important, as is the investigation. And the doctor was asked repeatedly, and she described the death in terms of the circumstances. And that's the way generally it is done.

BALDWIN: And, Chief Ramsey, I know that, normally, forensic pathologists don't actually have the benefit of watching the events that led to the death and -- determine caused by process of elimination.

And, here, she's describing being able to also assess cause of death by the virtue of watching what she referred to as this terminal event. What does that tell you about the importance of just body-cam video, which I know you have had a huge role in making happen, and documentation?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It is tremendously important.

That's what makes this case unusual, because they have so much video evidence. In many of these cases, you have written statements and things of that nature, but you don't have video. And if you do have video, sometimes, it's from a distance, it's a little grainy, you can't really see clearly.

But even when you looked at or listened to Dr. Tobin yesterday, I mean, he broke that video down step by step, minute by minute. And, I mean, you just can't deny it. I mean, I think Dr. Thomas' testimony supported what Dr. Tobin said yesterday, and it's just added a lot to this case.

There's no way that the actions of the officers did not contribute in a very significant way to the death of George Floyd, period. And I think it's pretty clear. And, I mean, people aren't stupid. They know what they're looking at.

And I think the jury, the same way. They're listening to the evidence, but they're also watching that video. They're listening to the experts. I think the defense has a tremendous uphill climb in order to try to present anything that would negate what's already there.

BALDWIN: Elie, why do you think the prosecution wants Dr. Thomas to explain the death certificate issued by Dr. Baker, the Hennepin County medical examiner who performed the autopsy on George Floyd?

HONIG: Yes, what the prosecution is doing here is, they're building a protective shield, essentially, for Dr. Baker, who is the official Hennepin County medical examiner who issued that death certificate.

Remember, the prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's the highest burden of proof known to our legal system. Now, think about it. By the time Dr. Baker takes the stand in a few minutes here this afternoon, this jury has already heard from Dr. Thomas today and from the pulmonologist Dr. Tobin yesterday, both of whom, I think, were very clear, were very compelling, and reached the same result.

So, when Dr. Baker gets up and gives the jury essentially the same conclusion, they won't be surprised. He's bolstered by these other two experts.

BALDWIN: Dr. Carter, this word asphyxia, you know, Dr. Thomas talked about