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Michigan Governor Calls for More Vaccine Supplies; Biden Holds Bipartisan Meeting; Ukraine Front Lines amid Russia Tensions. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 12, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:58]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: The White House says it is sending help to Michigan as that state experiences a big surge in new COVID-19 infections, and crucially hospitalizations. But that state's governor says that help is not enough.

Last week, Michigan accounted for seven of the ten worst COVID-19 outbreaks in urban areas, seven out of ten in the country. Governor Gretchen Whitmer wants the government to surge vaccine doses to her state. The White House says it will send additional testing supplies and drugs to treat patients, but not more vaccines.

Let's speak now with Dr. Megan Ranney. She's an emergency physician at Brown University.

Dr. Ranney, good to have you back.

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, to this point, you know, the government's just trying to be even handed here, right, in terms of handing out vaccines evenly across the country. Now you have a major surge in a state. I wonder, should the government re-visit that strategy of allocating those just based on population as opposed to immediate need and level of outbreak?

RANNEY: No, and they shouldn't for two reasons. The first is, as we know, vaccines, depending on which kind of vaccine you get, take between two and six weeks to start to protect you. The outbreak is happening now and the way to stop the outbreak now is with those public health measures that we've been talking about for a year now, things like masks, avoiding indoor dining, physical distancing and having social gatherings outdoors. That's what Michigan needs to do today to stop the spread of the disease.

The second thing is, if they divert vaccines to Michigan today, well, the outbreak could be worse in another state tomorrow or next week. And, in fact, we expect it will be because this new B117 variant is spreading across the country. So they're going to constantly be playing catch-up. The better thing to do is to continue with the current population- based strategy and to work as hard as they can to get vaccines in arms quickly, to protect us in that two to six week period literally across the United States where we're all going to be facing the same challenge in a couple of weeks.

SCIUTTO: Listen, your advice is consistent from you and other folks who know this kind of stuff. You've got to keep the mitigation measures in place. It's too early to lift them wholesale. But it's happening, right? And here even you have a Democratic-run state, right, where the governor's saying, listen, I just can't reimpose all this stuff. Given that reality, that sad reality, what do we do as a country then to control these outbreaks?

RANNEY: You know, we are all tired of the virus, but the virus is not tired of us yet. And it really comes down to community leaders helping to communicate with their local folks. There have been reports from Michigan. You know, my own parents lived in Michigan for over a decade. I understand the culture quite well. And I know that folks are not wearing masks despite the mask mandate.

It's really on local businesses, on local community leaders to speak up and talk about why those masks matter, especially right now when things are getting warmer. They can take dinners outside. It's really the best strategy that we have while also getting vaccines in arms.

But it is a challenge for sure and I feel for Governor Whitmer and for the folks in Michigan.

SCIUTTO: And it's a step to protect yourself, your families and everyone else, right? It goes in every direction.

Dr. Megan Ranney, thanks very much.

RANNEY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead -- still ahead this hour, President Biden lobbying both Democrats and Republicans in a push to advance his infrastructure plan by Memorial Day. Can he get it done? Can he get Republicans on board? Is he willing to compromise a bit? We'll be live.

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SCIUTTO: Congress is back in session, but that endless question, can compromise happen? In hours, a big test as President Biden holds his first bipartisan meeting on his proposed $2 trillion infrastructure plan. A plan that despite Republican pushback, he wants to kick off, at least the initial steps, in the coming weeks.

Let's begin in the White House. Jeremy Diamond is there.

Jeremy, I wonder, given -- given the Democrat -- the question is to whether he has all the Democratic votes lined up with Joe Manchin's opposition to reconciliation, or at least discomfort with it, and Republican opposition to this point with the size of the plan. I mean is the footing from the White House already, we may have to compromise here, bring down that target asking price?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, they've been very clear from the beginning, that they know that this is going to be a month's-long negotiation process with both Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill. They have put a larger focus in terms of the compromise aspect on how you exactly pay for this $2.2 trillion infrastructure package. The president himself, in his remarks, making very clear that's something that he's willing, perhaps even eager to negotiate on with Republicans.

[09:40:06]

They haven't put as much emphasis on negotiating the size of the package. But it is clear that even among some of those lawmakers who are coming today, like Senator Roger Wicker, who was talking just yesterday about the fact that this is too big of a package right now, it's clear that that will be a point of discussion today as President Biden meets with a group of Republican and Democratic lawmakers from both the House and the Senate today.

It was really Pete Buttigieg, the transportation secretary, yesterday, who made very clear what he was looking to do here with this infrastructure proposal, with the fact that they will push Republicans, even if they disagree on the definition of what exactly infrastructure is, he was essentially making the argument yesterday, look, call it what you want to call it, we just want you to vote for it. That, of course, is easier said than done, for sure, though.

So, look, we will see some discussion today about the size of the package, about the way that you pay for the package, but it is just the beginning of this process of negotiation that is going to stretch on for weeks and, frankly, months here.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Understood.

Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much.

With me now is former Republican U.S. Senator Rick Santorum. He also now serves on the advisory board for Advancing American Freedom. That's a conservative policy group led by the former vice president, Mike Pence.

Rick, welcome back. Nice to have you back again.

RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Jim. Great to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So you are -- you're invested in this yourself. You're part of a bipartisan group that includes yourself, Bobby Jindal, Republicans, John Delaney, Julian Castro on the Democratic side, looking for regulatory reform as it relates to infrastructure. But you're plugged into this issue.

I wonder, what would a compromise bill look like if there's hope still of getting, say, ten Republicans on board? What would it look like? What would the price tag be? What would be included and what would not be included?

SANTORUM: Yes, I'd say it would be smaller. It would include, you know, obviously, the infrastructure that I think Republicans embrace, which is everything from roads, bridges, water, broadband, all those basic infrastructures for making us more economically competitive. I think Republicans would embrace that, in fact, are bracing that. It's all the other things that are -- that are in there -- in that package that, you know, some of which Republicans would support, like paid family leave and things like that. There's be -- there'd be support for that. But, again, it doesn't belong in an infrastructure bill.

And the second part of it, and this is where Republicans have to step up, and that is, how do you pay for this.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SANTORUM: And whether it's user fees, which, again, Republicans, in the past, have supported, whether it's a gas tax or electric tax, because we have many electric vehicles now using the roads, or some vehicle tax, something like that has to be put forward and Republicans have to, you know, have to be willing to compromise on their side to get something like this done.

SCIUTTO: You've already there defined infrastructure more broadly than at least the Republican talking points at this point because you hear that figure, this is only 6 percent infrastructure, but that -- but that's only if you define infrastructure purely as roads and bridges.

SANTORUM: Right.

SCIUTTO: You include other things, and I think most people do, you know, water treatment. I want my water to be clean, right?

SANTORUM: Right.

SCIUTTO: Rail and even broadband.

I just wonder, do the politics -- you know the current politics right now on The Hill as well as anybody, do the politics of the 2022 cycle and 2024 already give GOP lawmakers an actual political inventive to compromise here and give what would, in effect, be something of a win for the Biden administration?

SANTORUM: Yes, I mean this has -- this has been the problem for the last ten years. We just had both sides, all they care about is the next, you know, congressional or presidential election, whichever is coming up. And as a result, Congress has done pretty much nothing other than things that have been done on a strictly partisan basis using reconciliation, whether under Trump or under Obama or now under Biden. And the question is, you know, is it possible to do it? And I would just say, you know, a part of that is leadership. I mean I can -- I would -- I would argue that Barack Obama and Donald Trump weren't really willing to buck their base and to compromise and didn't put the deals on the table that were necessary to bring people together.

And the question is, is Joe Biden provided that leadership? It all comes down to leadership and whether it's the president or whether it's the Republican leader in the House and Senate, or the Democratic leaders in the House and Senate, they have to be willing to, you know, really work it and put something out there that can -- that can bring people together.

And so far we've now seen two presidents in a row that haven't been able to accomplish that. The question is, is Joe Biden able to do that?

SCIUTTO: Right. And this is -- this will be a big test, can he get it through because he even has to keep the Democratic caucus in line here.

SANTORUM: Yes.

SCIUTTO: You talk about leadership. And, as you know, there's a battle for leadership within the Republican Party.

[09:45:01]

SANTORUM: Right.

SCIUTTO: And we saw that in this Republican Party conference this weekend and you saw president -- former President Trump speaking in terms that we're familiar with, right?

SANTORUM: Yes.

SCIUTTO: About -- even about other Republicans, like Mitch McConnell.

You have a long history with former Speaker John Boehner. You guys were founding members of the Gang of Seven back in the early 1990s. John Boehner has been withering in his criticism of the current Republican Party. I want to play a quick clip from him on "CBS This Morning" then get your reaction.

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JOHN BOEHNER (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: I'm a Republican. But we've got some people in the party who believe more in making noise than they do with making policy. I went to Washington to serve in the Congress, not because I wanted to make noise, but because I wanted to do something on behalf of our country. And I think if Republicans begin to focus more in on the policies that we all believe in, we can unite the party in a place that Americans will recognize once again.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: We've heard that criticism from you. We've heard it from Adam Kinzinger, Liz Cheney and others, but who's winning -- who's winning that battle on the Republican Party right now?

SANTORUM: Yes, I mean it's sort of funny because both John and I came into Congress, we were part of this group called the Gang of Seven and we certainly made a lot of noise and we certainly upset a lot of folks, even on our side of the aisle. So it's not unusual for new members of Congress, whether it's the Ted Cruz who he blistered or on the other side, AOC. You have new members come in and -- who are, you know, fire crackers and blow things up. And that -- that's sort of the normal course for Congress over the past 30 or 40 years.

But his point about, you know, getting to policy decisions and focusing on getting things done, it's gotten harder and harder. And, again, I come back to leadership. And, yes, you can complain about the bomb throwers, whether it's Ted Cruz or Matt Gaetz or whoever it is or Jim Jordan, who I think he criticizes. You can complain about those folks. But in the end, you know, Speaker Boehner, you know, it's up to the folks who are in charge to be able to pull the people together to make it happen. And that's not just the president, but it's also the speaker and it's also the leaders and they've got to be willing to take the hits. And, right now, the only ones willing to make those -- make those kinds of deals, and that's -- that's why we are where we are.

SCIUTTO: Yes, political courage, a rare species on The Hill these days.

SANTORUM: Rare species right now.

SCIUTTO: We'll see if it's extinct.

Senator Rick Santorum, thanks very much.

SANTORUM: You bet. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: A tense face-off between Russia and Ukraine. CNN's cameras are in the trenches, that's today, at the border, as the Kremlin stations another 50,000 troops near Crimea. What the standoff could mean for potential talks with the U.S. ahead. Is he planning to invade? We'll have more.

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SCIUTTO: This morning, CNN is learning more details about an incident that Iranian officials are calling a terrorist action. It caused a blackout at Iran's Natanz underground nuclear facility on Sunday. This is where they enrich uranium, possibly for use in bombs. An Iranian intelligence official telling an Iranian media outlet that one person involved in the sabotage of the facility's electrical grid has been identified. Reports in several Israeli media outlets are quoting intelligence officials saying that Israel's national intelligence agency, known as Mossad, is responsible for the attack. It comes as U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin was in Israel this

morning. There he is arriving, meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. It also comes just days after indirect talks between the U.S. and Iran on restarting the nuclear deal after those talks wrapped up in Vienna. That's a priority for the Biden administration. The effect of this attack on those talks still unclear.

SCIUTTO: Turning now to the growing tensions, real ones, between Russia and the Ukraine. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken warning Moscow of consequences for aggressive behavior as Russian troops, an estimated 50,000 of them, have now gathered along Ukraine's eastern border.

CNN went with Ukrainian President Zelenskiy as he toured the front lines of this ongoing war.

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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean we've entered this warren of trenches that have been dug along the front line. I can tell you, I mean it's like being thrown back to the early 20th century and the great war because I've not seen anything like this in modern warfare.

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SCIUTTO: Reminder, that war has been going on for several years now, has killed many thousands of people.

CNN's Matthew Chance joins us now from Kiev.

Matthew, has the Biden administration signaled its support for Ukraine in the midst of this threat?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it has. I mean, in fact, earlier this month there was a phone call between President Biden and President Zelenskiy here in Ukraine in which, you know, Joe Biden sort of offered his ongoing support. You know, he offered, you know -- they talked about, you know, the possibility of more military aid. They talked about support from the United States for their economic reforms that this country so badly needs. And, of course, the Biden administration is generally supportive of Ukraine's aspirations to join the western military alliance, NATO.

But, I mean, the trouble is, it doesn't go much further than that. And you sense, speaking to Ukrainian leadership, that there's an increased amount of frustration when it comes to speaking not just the United States but western allies in general that, you know, words are not enough.

[09:55:13]

They want actual actions. They want a path towards membership of NATO. They need more money to continue to prosecute this expensive war with Russia, and weapons, and they just generally want to be seen, in their words, as the eastern outpost of democracy in the broader conflict to resist, you know, Russian expansion and the Russian threat, Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question.

Listen, if they join NATO, that would put them in the mutual defense part of that treaty. Russia certainly wouldn't like that. It would be a new commitment (ph).

Matthew Chance, good to have you there. We'll continue to follow it.

Moments from now, testimony picks up again for week three in the trial of Derek Chauvin. We're going to take you inside the courtroom the moment it starts. That's coming up shortly. Please, stay with us.

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