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GOP's Jordon Told to Shut His Mouth After Ranting to Dr. Fauci; City of Chicago Releases Video of Police Shooting of 13-Year-Old; Pfizer CEO: Third Vaccine Dose Likely Needed Within 6 to 12 Months. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 15, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Patients carry a lot of weight, Dr, Fauci, we just had the chair of the Financial Services Committee said she loves you and you're the greatest thing in the world.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: My recommendations --

CALIFORNIA REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): Will the gentleman yield?

FAUCI: -- are consistent --

WATERS: Will the gentleman yield?

JORDAN: No, it's my time.

FAUCI: Now can I answer the question, please? My recommendations are not a personal recommendation, it's based on the CDC guidance which is --

JORDAN: And I'm asking the question what measures have to be attained before Americans get their first amendment liberties back?

FAUCI: I just told you that. I told --

JORDAN: No, you haven't given anything specific. You said we hope when -- tell me something specific --

FAUCI: Right now we have about 60,000 infections a day which is a very large risk for a surge. We are not talking about liberties. We're talking about a pandemic that has killed 560,000 Americans. That's what we are talking about.

JORDAN: And I get that -- and I don't disagree with that and I understand how serious that is, but I also understand it's pretty serious when businesses have been shut down. People can't go to church, people can't assemble in their own homes with their friend, with their families. People can't go to loved one's funeral. People can't get to their government, petition their representative to redress their grievances,

FAUCI: Right.

JORDAN: I also understand the first amendment is pretty darned important and it's been a year and I want to know when --

FAUCI: Right.

JORDAN: -- Americans will get those first amendment liberties back?

FAUCI: You just said people cannot assemble in their own homes. They can, that's a CDC recommendation for vaccination --

JORDAN: Not last fall, they couldn't.

FAUCI: I didn't hear.

JORDAN: Not last fall they couldn't. At number do we get our liberties back? Tell me the number.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): When --

JORDAN: Tell me the number.

CLYBURN: When 90 percent of the members of Congress get vaccinated.

JORDAN: But you're not a doctor, Mr. Clyburn. He is. What is the number?

FAUCI: I can't give you --

REP. CAROLYN MALONEY (D-NY): Thank you for recognizing me, Mr. Clyburn, thank you.

CLYBURN: The Chair now recognizes for five minutes Ms. Maloney.

JORDAN: I'd like my question answered! I don't want (CROSSTALK).

MALONEY: Reclaiming my time. Reclaiming my time.

WATERS: Regular order. Regular order.

CLYBURN: Just a moment.

JORDAN: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, I don't want you to answer my question. The American people want Dr. Fauci to answer the question.

CLYBURN: Well.

JORDAN: What does it have to be?

WATERS: But your time expired, sir. You need to respect the chair and shut your mouth.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Any moment the people of Chicago will get their first look at the bodycam video of police shooting this 13-year- old boy. We will take you live with the breaking developments there in that case, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:00]

BALDWIN: The city of Chicago is on edge right now and that's because officials have now released bodycam footage of the police shooting of Adam Toledo, the 13-year-old boy shot and killed by an officer who chased him into an alley last month and police claim Toledo was carrying a gun at the time of the shooting.

CNN's Ryan Young is on the story for us. And Ryan, just give us a little context for people who aren't as familiar with this Toledo case and also you have now seen this video.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I have seen the video, Brooke. And first of all, let's just say it is tough anytime you see a police-involved shooting where there is a fatality. It's doubly as tough when you think about the fact that the victim in this, or the person shot was 13-years-old. Adam Toledo was 13 when he was shot. But the police department, the city has done as much as they think they can so far to present this in a way to show why the events happened in the way that they happened.

And so we break it down from the start. In the city we know there's a lot of gun violence. So with that said there are shot spotters all throughout the city and they are integrated into a computer system. So what we see in the video is you hear the shots, one after another, eight shots were reported by the shot spotter. The officer is responding to it.

In the video that we saw, we saw two people standing on a corner and it looks like they fired toward a moving car that is going by. As the officer gets on scene, this video is very clear. The bodycam is activated, the door opens, you see the officer engaging in a foot chase and then you hear the audio start where he's basically telling the person who's in front of him to stop running, listen to commands, saying stop, stop, stop, show me your hands.

And I would say in less than a second and a half when they slow it down, you can see what looks like a silver weapon in the right hand and the person's turned away from the officer, and that's Adam Toledo, he is turned this direction.

When he starts turning, when the officer says show me your hands, that's when the officer opens fire. It's a split-second decision and it looks like that gun is turning toward the officer when the shots are fired.

Now we're not showing the video right now because obviously we have to put it through a process. It is very difficult to watch. It's one shot to the chest. It seems like the officer responds immediately to try to render aid to that young man, calls it in.

But once again, you hear the commands from the second the officer leaves the car screaming toward the young man who is running away, stop, stop, stop, show me your "f***ing" hands is what is actually said there, show me your hands. That's when it turns. They slowed it down so you can see the gun and it comes up and that's when the officer opens fire.

Now as we talk about this, especially in the city of Chicago, one thing I know from covering the city for so long, is that in cases where people have guns, it is something that has baffled officers for quite some time, that people don't always drop their guns when they're running away from officers.

Now this young man was with a 21-year-old. It's believed that 21-year- old was actually the one who fired the shots that set off the shot spotters. That 21-year-old is in custody as we speak. And then he apparently handed the gun to the 13-year-old as they ran away from officers and that's when this fatal shooting happened.

[15:40:00]

This is going to be tough. Community members have been calling to see this video for quite some time. The family had a chance to see the video days ago and they released a joint statement with the Chicago Police Department, obviously -- with the Chicago City trying to make calm with folks to make sure there was nothing that would sort of impugn his memory.

Because they are obviously wanting to make sure there's no violence in the next few days. But Brooke, when you talk about how difficult this is, especially for police officers making a split second decision, you do not know how old the person is who's holding a weapon.

This is tough to watch, when the video comes out there will be a lot of questions, but it appears by the way the video is played it lines up exactly with what the Police Department has been telling us.

Of course, the mayor had an impassioned speech today about where we are in this city, and I can say after covering the mayor for several years, I don't think I've ever heard her be so clear about the problem with the gun violence in the city.

Anyone who's lived here can tell you it is heartbreaking to know so many young people have guns and availability to guns, the stat that's always said where guns are confiscated in Chicago, then L.A. and New York combined, when you think about that fact, it's just mind boggling.

But once again, this video is very tough to watch, and hopefully we'll be able to play it for you soon. But obviously it's going to be some tough hours ahead to see how the city reacts when they see this video -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: I appreciate you with all of those details and also just explaining to our audience, you know, we just have to put this video -- we have to just put it through all the appropriate systems before we throw it on the air. It's a very delicate system here at CNN.

YOUNG: Absolutely. BALDWIN: Let me ask you this, Ryan, just staying with you. You know, just given the unrest we have seen nearby in Minnesota over those officer involved killings, and these are all different, this is all different, but is the city preparing for demonstrations?

YOUNG: Yes, I think they have to. And Brooke, I know you probably feel the same way I do sometimes. It's hard to cover these stories over and over again because you feel like you have no recourse to help people, right. And that you're just a vessel to kind of show them what's going on. And obviously there are going to be people who make decisions about this video before they even watch it.

But sitting there and watching the video, one, it's very hard to realize that this young man lost his life in those seconds, and then you realize the split decision that had to be made by that officer, it appears, because you can see that weapon. And when he turns it looks as if the only choice he had was to fire at that point because of the gun in hand. Of course, that's what the police department is saying, so it will be interesting to see how people in the community receive this.

My last point before we go, Brooke, this is completely different from what we have, we've seen videos released before. I think you see the coordination between the city and other leaders to try to make sure this comes across the right way, has been very appreciated by some in the community.

BALDWIN: Duly noted, Ryan Young, thank you for all of those details in Chicago. Commissioner Charles Ramsey, what do you think of all of the tick tock, the chronology of what Ryan just described what this officer did?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all Ryan did an excellent job of describing the video, obviously we have not seen it. But based on his analysis and what he saw, then it appears to me that like it's a justifiable shooting.

It's a tragedy. Any loss of life is a tragedy in any individual, especially a 13-year-old. But the reality is, if he was armed and he turned toward the officer, the officer's use of deadly force would have been certainly appropriate and within the policy.

You wish you could resolve these things in another way but sometimes you just can't, and these things happen very, very quickly and people need to understand that.

The question that really needs to be asked is, what the hell is a 13- year-old doing with a gun? You know, parents know about it? If there was a 21-year-old with him that handed the gun to him then the 21- year-old needs to be held accountable, so there are questions surrounding this particular incident. But unfortunately, it's cost a 13 year old his life.

One thing that he did mention, and I want to point out. After the shooting, the officer did try to render aid to the young man, again, duty of care which we have talked about a lot over the last -- BALDWIN: Yes, we have.

RAMSEY: -- three weeks. But it even applies if you are involved in a shooting then you try to help the person that you shot best you can.

BALDWIN: Elie, we know that this police officer is on a 30-day administrative leave, and this happened March 29th. What do you expect potentially just legally speaking?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so obviously the police department needs to do its only internal investigation and prosecutors need to do an investigation. In a lot of jurisdiction it's mandatory any time a police officer fires his weapon.

First of all, I do want to echo an amen, what Ryan said at the end of his report just there, but it's so important that the family is working with the city and authorities together.

[15:45:00]

It's good to see that. That should help a lot.

Legally speaking, commissioner Ramsey is really the expert on the nuances, but I can give you two sort of book ends here. Generally speaking, the police officers are not permitted to shoot somebody just because that person is fleeing even if that person is armed.

On the flip side, if somebody is brandishing a gun, pointing it at the police, generally speaking, they are justified in shooting. And so it's going to come down to those details. And like the commissioner said that sort of split second decision making and analysis.

BALDWIN: Elie and the commissioner, thank you both so much for that.

Coming up next here on CNN, the CEO of Pfizer says even people who are fully vaccinated may not be finished yet. What he is saying now about a third booster shot, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:00]

BALDWIN: Big news from Pfizer this afternoon, Pfizer CEO says people will likely need a third vaccine dose within six to 12 months of their first round of shots. It is the strongest indication, yet that people may need regular booster shots, just to stay protected against COVID.

Dr. Saju Mathew is with me now in Atlanta. And Dr. Mathew nice to have you back. We have heard about the potential for booster shots for months. But this sounds a bit more solid than anything we've heard to this point. What to you make of this?

DR. SAJU MATHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN AND PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: Yes, Brooke, I'm not surprised. This is such a contagious and easily transmissible infection, racing to kill 600,000 people in the U.S. So, ultimately, what you want in a vaccine is to protect you for the longest time possible. So far, the studies are showing that we at least have six months of protection. And I want to clarify that, Brooke. Because a lot of people are thinking that the science is saying that you only have six months. That's not true.

This is a pandemic that's going on in real time. So, so far, of all the people that are vaccinated, you have at least six months. I think it's probably going to be a year. But, yes, with these variants looming and how deadly they are, I will not be surprised if this is going to be a yearly vaccine with boosters.

BALDWIN: OK. Adding this to my calendar, doc, thank you.

What about Michigan? Michigan is seeing an incredibly high number of COVID cases right now. Officials there are literally begging people to get vaccinated. Do you fear that this uncertainty around the Johnson & Johnson vaccine will have a negative impact when it comes to vaccine hesitancy?

MATHEW: The Johnson & Johnson vaccine rollout, yes, unfortunately, has not been the greatest. Listen, this could have been a save-all vaccine for not only the U.S., Brooke, but the entire world.

It's a one shot, done. It doesn't have to be refrigerated. People that are bedridden, hospitalized, elderly people that cannot get to a vaccination center could have really been saved by this vaccine.

I just hope that the CDC can come back really quickly after they have enough information. Let's keep in mind, it's only six people that developed this very rare condition. And it's a rare blood clotting condition. I've actually seen it one time in my residency. It is deadly. I'm not undermining it.

But I think that ultimately, they will come back and hopefully maybe have some age restrictions, maybe 50 years and older, no women can get this vaccine. But, yes, of course I'm concerned about it.

But one last thing, Brooke, about that point. This is the time while there is a pause in the Johnson & Johnson vaccine for people to go ahead and schedule the Moderna and Pfizer shots, which are very safe and effective. And they don't have any of these blood clots associated with those vaccines.

BALDWIN: Dr. Mathew, thank you so much as always. Good to see you.

MATHEW: And good luck, Brooke, with your future. I know tomorrow is your last show. Thank you for everything. We'll miss you.

BALDWIN: Thank you. Thank you so much for that.

President Biden says he will talk to Vladimir Putin today after slapping new sanctions on Russia for its meddling in the U.S. 2020 election. Congressman Adam Schiff speaks to CNN about it, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:00] BALDWIN: Eight years ago today, the world watched that deadly bombing at the finish line at the Boston Marathon, killing three people, injuring more than 260.

And this week's CNN Hero is one of the survivors of the blast. Heather Abbott's life was forever changed by the injuries she suffered that day, and yet she found a way to turn that tragedy into triumph.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEATHER ABBOTT, PRESIDENT THE HEATHER ABBOTT FOUNDATION: I heard the first explosion just ahead, in front of me. The next thing I knew, a second explosion occurred just to my right, and that was the last thing I knew before I landed in the restaurant on the ground.

I was in the hospital for several days while doctors were deciding whether or not to amputate. It was hard to come to terms with the fact that I am an amputee at first and had my injury not happened in such a public way, where there was so much assistance available, I never would have been able to afford multiple prosthesis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of our recent beneficiaries.

ABBOTT: So I decided to do what I could to help people get those devices that simply couldn't get them because they were out of reach. It has been life changing for them. And a lot of them remind me of that. Feels very rewarding to be able to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So special. You can see how Heather is helping amputees get these custom prostheses. Go to cnnheroes.com and while you are there, take a moment, nominate someone you think should be a CNN Hero.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me. Hope to see you tomorrow. My last day here at CNN. We'll tune in until then.

Let's go to Washington now. THE LEAD with Jake Tapper starts right now.

END