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Manhunt For Ex-Detective Suspected Of Killing Three In Texas; Minneapolis Braces For Verdict Fallout In George Floyd Case; CDC Says, Half Of U.S. Adults Have Gotten At Least One COVID Shot; America Faces Endless Cycle Of Gun Violence; Jailed Opposition Leader Reportedly Near Death; Senator Tom Cotton To Stall Nominees From Democratic States. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 18, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday.

As the nation grapples with the gun violence epidemic that is out of control as well as the future of policing in America tonight, a former officer is on the run, accused of gunning down three people in Austin, Texas. Police talking moments ago about the urgent manhunt under way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

INTERIM CHIEF JOSEPH CHACON, AUSTIN, TEXAS POLICE: At this point we have exhausted every effort in searching this particular area for the suspect. We brought in many of our resources, including our air support, our K-9 teams, our -- several SWAT teams have been out here and as well as our officers and officers from other departments.

I want to thank our partners who have been very strong, including the fire department, EMS, DPS, Round Rock, the U.S. marshals and particularly the FBI. The FBI, because the initial report was that it was an active shooter, mobilized and came out and has been here as a support unit.

At this point we have lifted the shelter-in-place order. We are telling people that they can go ahead and come out of their businesses or residences in this area but to remain vigilant and to be safe. At this point, it's proper to ask once again of our public, please help us. If you have information about where this individual might be, call 911. If you see this individual, please do not approach him but, call 911 and let us know if you see him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Gabriela Vidal from CNN affiliate KEYE joins us now. So, Gabriella, what more you have you learned from authorities there on the ground? GABRIELA VIDAL, REPORTER, KEYE-TV: Well, as you heard in that sound bite, they say that they have exhausted all efforts here in the Northwest Austin area in searching for 41-year-old Stephen Nicholas Broderick. And this is the Northwest Austin area, just off of Great Hills Parkway near the Arboretum. This is a very populated shopping area for a lot of people in the Northwest Austin area.

But right now, they have done everything they can, they have had helicopters coming in here, they have had SWAT teams, like you said, like that sound clip said, they even had K-9s searching the area. Right now, this search has turned from a search here in this area to a fugitive search.

Now, let me show you the scene that we're seeing here right now. There are still cops, even some health -- some people from the community, even some public office individuals here in the area. Now, as we have already noted, three people were shot and killed in this area, two Hispanic females and one black male.

Now, right now, it is believed to be a domestic incident, so it had believed to be that the individuals are known to each other but police could not indicate how they're known together at this time. They are still trying to investigate that information. And this individual, 41- year-old Stephen Nicholas Broderick, is a former Travis County sheriff's deputy.

Now, we found information that this individual was previously arrested for -- and being charged for sexually assaulting a child back in June of 2020. Broderick is still considered at large. And while this area, we have seen that this shelter in place order has been lifted for this area, he's still considered armed and dangerous.

But during this press conference earlier today, they did mention that they don't want to classify this as an active shooter situation because they don't believe that he is killing random people, the victims were known to him.

[18:05:09]

At this time, we still don't know how but we are trying to get that information and hopefully we'll have that as it becomes available.

Now, I had the chance to speak to people who were in this area when the shooting took place and police responded to the call just before noon this morning, some of them even sheltering in place inside the back of a kitchen at some of the restaurants here in this area.

Now that that shelter in place order has been lifted, they are probably a little bit relieved that they can go home and go by to their nearby apartment, but they're still telling people to avoid this area as possible because police are -- some SWAT units are still picking up their equipment, there will be still be some police cars in this area just in case they may find out any more information, or he may still be in the area.

But as of right now, they've transitioned this from a search here in this area to a fugitive search. Back to you, Pam.

BROWN: All right. Gabriela Vidal on the ground there in Austin, Texas, bringing us the latest, thank you so much.

Well, police have confirmed the 19-year-old who killed eight people Thursday in Indianapolis purchased the guns used in the attack legally, even though just months before he brought the two assault rifles the FBI investigated him and seized a shotgun from his home.

This was preventable, and to America, it has become commonplace, but that doesn't make it normal. It should not be something we accept. Since the Atlanta spa shootings on March 16th, this country has seen at least 50 mass shootings.

That is based on CNN reporting and data from the gun violence archive, local media and police reports. Nearly 40,000 people are dying every year due to gun violence in America, more than car crashes and on par with the flu. America's gun homicide rate towers above other industrialized nations, five times Canada's rate, 30 times Australia's, as The New York Times points out. Compare it to the country's with the lowest rates, as you see here, and the discrepancy is even more staggering.

It's no coincidence that we also lead the world by a wide margin on the number of fire arms available. The small arms survey estimates there are 393 million guns owned in the U.S., more guns than people. But to put it another way, America makes up about 4 percent of the world's population and about 45 percent of the world's nonmilitary guns.

Again, this is not normal. The scale of the crisis is beyond sickening, and nearly 20 years in Afghanistan, 2,320 American troops have died this year alone, more than twice that many Americans have died from gun violence. This is America's true forever war.

And in cities across the United States right now, the feeling is unmistakable and the signs are everywhere. A major decision in a court trial that the world is watching will soon have a massive impact on the relationship between American communities and the police officers who patrol them. And it's happening here in Minneapolis.

That's where closing arguments began tomorrow in the trial of a former police officer charged with murdering George Floyd last May. People and protesters gathered today at the place where Floyd died, one of many centers of national anger as what is seen as police bias and excessive and often deadly force.

CNN's Sara Sidner is in Minneapolis right now. So, Sara, as I said there, this trial will have enormous repercussions on the policing in this country. Are you feeling that there right now on the ground?

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. This used to be South Minneapolis. This is now George Floyd Square. That changed on May 25th, 2020. And the square has been like this for all the months after George Floyd died. And there is a body chalk that is out there that is where he actually took his last breath. And people have been keeping this up, this whole time, every single day, folks out here doing this. What you're hearing now is a group of folks that have together, black folks and Asian folks saying they need to be in solidarity as well against hate.

We have with us Johnathon McClellan. He is with the Minnesota Justice Coalition. Johnathon is here. He has heard the words from the lieutenant governor. The lieutenant governor said something that I am not sure I've heard anybody who has been put into that high office to say, she said that Minnesota is not safe for black people.

What do you think about those words coming out of the mouth of one of the highest levels of government in this state?

JOHNATHON MCCLELLAN, PRESIDENT, MINNESOTA JUSTICE COALITION: I think that it's long overdue and they should have said a lot sooner. But I'm glad that they're recognizing something that we have been saying all along, and that it's not safe and we need changes, real change to progress as a community.

SIDNER: I wanted to ask you. I know that you have had conversations with the governor just very recently, as everyone is waiting for this verdict for the officer accused of shooting and -- sorry, leaning on George Floyd's neck for over nine minutes 29 seconds.

[18:10:07]

You have had conversations often on with the governor. What are some of the things that you are asking as a coalition, what are you demanding be done?

MCCLELLAN: We have a whole litany of legislative initiatives, on the top of that list is ending qualified immunity. Another is removing the statute of limitations on wrongful death and the other one is making body cam footage available within the first 48 hours to the family.

In addition to that, our coalition of organizations on March 29th drafted and signed on to a letter that was sent to the FBI asking them to re-introduce the patterns and practices investigations here in the state of Minnesota of the Minnesota Police Department. The mayor in Brooklyn Center also supported that initiative as well to have his police department investigated by the FBI.

SIDNER: And, usually, sort of the DOJ sometimes takes over and they look into all of this and they watch over departments sometimes for years. Johnathon, thank you so much for talking to us about the work you are trying to see get forward and I know some of the bills have not gone through and passed and you guys have been pushing for that for a long time.

MCCLELLAN: Absolutely.

SIDNER: And we should just mention that here in George Floyd Square, this has been going on for hours, it has been absolutely peaceful, it has been absolutely -- you would see people hugging and talking to each other. There are black folks and white folks and folks and Latin American folks.

You also have folks from the Asian community as well, and everyone is here talking about hate and hoping they can stop hatred towards any person of any color or any creed. That's what has been happening here.

Remember, the city is in a lot of tension, but right now you're seeing absolute peace in the name of George Floyd and others who have been killed in police incursions. Pam?

BROWN: I hope those peaceful demonstrations continue that way. Thank you, Sara Sidner, we appreciate it, bringing us the latest there from the Minneapolis.

And now, let's bring in the number three House Democrat, South Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn. Congressman, what is your reaction to what is going on in Minneapolis tonight as America awaits the verdict of the Chauvin trial?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, first of all, thank you very much for having me. I am like everybody else, anxiously awaiting this verdict. I do believe that what we saw with our own eyes all over the world, quite frankly, was a lynching taking place. George Floyd was lynched. That's just plain and simple. We have got to bring this kind of stuff to an end.

In the beginning of that, it could very well be this verdict. And if this verdict comes in, as we all hope it will, I think it will begin the ending of a lot of things, including the so-called qualified immunity, because what has happened here, it has become absolute immunity.

I can understand police officers being -- having some forms of immunity, but I cannot understand the fact that we cannot accept the notion that there are some police officers who should not be there. I often tell people, I grew up in a parsonage. My father was president of this Presbyterian. And then one of the first conversations I ever eavesdropped on was my neighbor meeting to defrock a preacher.

Now, they did not get rid of the church, they got rid of the preacher. There are some cases where people should not be in the ministry. People should not be doctors. People should not be lawyers. Just this past week, I have seen two lawyers disbarred here in South Carolina, but for some strange reason, we seem to feel no matter what, every police officer must be treated as a saint.

And we are now seeing it with our own eyes that that's not the case, and we are hearing here today that the shooter that is being searched for was a former sheriff's deputy. Something is wrong with us accepting the fact that just because you put on a gun and a badge, nothing else matters. That makes you a saint and you are to be treated that way. That has to come to an end. And I do hope that this verdict will start us on that journey.

BROWN: And we will be finding out soon. And I want to ask you in this context, we see what is going on there in Minneapolis, we have seen what has gone on in several states across the country when it comes to gun violence, when it comes to police brutality and when it comes to mass shootings.

[18:15:09]

We have seen 50 mass shootings just recently in this country.

As you know, year after year, poll after poll shows widespread support for universal background checks. Quinnipiac this week looked at background checks for all gun buyers and found 89 percent support among Americans, 84 percent among Republicans, 85 percent among gun owners, 84 among rural residents.

As far as polling goes, you don't get much more of a slam dunk than that. Why is it still not getting done on the Senate side?

CLYBURN: For some strange reason, the Senate is under the control of people who seem not to have much respect for what is the truth. It is the truth that 90 percent of all attempted gun purchases get --

BROWN: Oh, we lost our Congressman Clyburn there. We hope to get him back soon. It's an important conversation on what we are seeing across the country when it comes to gun violence.

But in the meantime, we do have three packed hours of news for you tonight. I will ask the man who orchestrated the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden and about the threat of domestic terrorism. Retired Four-Star Admiral William McRaven joins me live next hour.

And the Time Magazine Cover Story Writer Justin Worland explains how the pandemic can lead us to a greater world. We're going to talk about that.

And wild scene on the Florida beach as the pilot of World War II plane makes textbook emergency landing.

But, first, a massive milestone in the bid to beat back the pandemic, 50 percent of the U.S. adults have gotten at least one vaccine shot. Polo Sandoval is live in Michigan, as states struggling with new cases when we come back.

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[18:20:00]

BROWN: Well, some much needed good news on the COVID front, the CDC is now reporting half of all people in the U.S. over the age of 18 have received at least one dose of the coronavirus vaccine. With the quarter of the population now fully vaccinated, about 3.5 million doses were administered yesterday alone.

But despite this huge vaccine effort, cases are surging in several states with Michigan being hit the hardest and hospitals completely overwhelmed.

CNN's Polo Sandoval joins me now from Detroit. So, what's the latest there on the ground, Polo? POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we know, Pam, and sections have been on the rise in the state of Michigan for about the last eight weekends now. Test positivity rate here in Michigan at about 12 percent, and it's a figure that is worrying officials especially in the Detroit public schools. They are ordering the in-person be suspended temporarily, at least until the second week of May.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL (voice over): Monday is the day when the Biden administration wants states across the nation open up COVID-19 vaccine eligibility to all adults. But vaccination efforts have slowed. CDC data showing a drop in the number of vaccines administered. The drop was not unexpected due to allocation issues, but now, distribution of J&J's vaccine is on pause due to concerns about blood clots.

The nation's top infectious disease expert is expressing hope the J&J option will soon return albeit with conditions.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I don't want to get ahead of the CDC and the FDA and advisory committee, but I would imagine that what we will see is that it would come back and it would come back in some sort of either warning or restriction.

Again, I don't know, I don't want to be ahead of them.

SANDOVAL: About 40 percent of Americans have already received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine, a quarter of the U.S. population is fully vaccinated, according to the CDC. It's getting easier in some parts of the country to secure a vaccine appointment.

Walk-up options are being offered across the country for most, including in Atlanta's Mercedes Benz stadium, where you don't need an appointment anymore. In Ohio, vaccine supplies outpaced demand in some parts of the state, forcing the closure of several drive-through locations.

There is perhaps no greater need to get people vaccinated than in Michigan, where the test positivity rate is now over 12 percent.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): 15 months of this and people are tired and dropping the protocols.

SANDOVAL: COVID-19 patients in the Wolverine State are, once again, lining in some hospital hallways, says the state's top health authority. And in Beaumont Health, the Detroit area's largest health care system, frontline health care workers are struggling to keep up with this third surge.

JOHN FOX, CEO, BEAUMONT HEALTH: 13 months is a long time to be dominated by this one disease.

SANDOVAL: Dr. Joel Fishbain noticing this time, COVID patients are younger and many of them extremely sick, and some of them have admitted to having gathered in large groups. DR. JOEL FISHBAIN, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: I have not seen my kids in well over a year. I get it. I really do. But if we don't stay diligent and really continue to follow the general simple practices that we started last year, we are going to potentially be doing this over and over again.

SANDOVAL: The doctors plea to fellow Michiganders, as some of continue enjoying aspects of pre-pandemic life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: And you heard from Michigan's governor just now in the piece, another noteworthy comment that she shared today, especially on NBC's Meet the Press here, explaining, obviously, as she continues to resist these growing calls for her to implement stricter measures, telling NBC's Chuck Todd the reasons why she hasn't been able to do that is because a lawsuit that was brought against her by state legislators and then consequential loss, and which she described as Republican-controlled state supreme court.

And that's one of the reasons why she said that she does not have the same tools this time that she did a year ago. But, Pam, as you can imagine, that's certainly going to fuel the debate that's happening here on the ground right now.

Many people are asking why Governor Whitmer is handling this surge very differently when you compare it to how she handled the first surge. Because it's certainly worth noting that the numbers have already exceeded what we saw a couple of months ago and getting dangerously close to what we saw a year ago, Pam.

[18:25:03]

BROWN: And impacting more young people, we are seeing. All right, Polo Sandoval, thank you so much.

And on that note later tonight, as we learn that younger Americans are the least likely to get vaccinated, I will take you to rural South Carolina where I got a firsthand look at the fight to convince skeptics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, our focus the needs to be on the younger population. Today, I am noticing that we don't have as many in that age group coming in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But, first, America's real forever war, the never-ending cycle of gun violence and the tens of thousands of lives lost every year. The founder of Moms Demand Action, Shannon Watts, and Gifford's executive director, Peter Ambler, are up next. Stay with us.

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[18:30:18]

BROWN: Tonight, a former detective is on the run accused of gunning down three people in Austin, Texas. This as the nation grapples with an epidemic of gun violence. There have been 50 mass shootings in the past month and 151 so far this year.

Joining me now are two-gun reform advocates. Peter Ambler is the executive director of Giffords, a gun control advocacy and research organization, and Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action.

Thank you both for coming on for this discussion.

Peter, I'm going to start with you. I spoke with Republican congressman, Representative James Comer last night. Take a listen to what he said when I asked him why he didn't support new gun laws.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): If you look at the states that have banned guns and the cities that have banned guns, Chicago, Washington, D.C., they have some of the highest rates of gun violence, so just passing laws banning guns doesn't solve the problem.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And then he went on to say that basically criminals who live in areas where there's high gun ownership, that there is less gun violence there because they know there's more gun ownership. What do you make of that argument? Is there any data to support that?

PETER AMBLER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GIFFORDS: COURAGE TO FIGHT GUN VIOLENCE: There isn't. Thanks for bringing that up. You know, as a country we're becoming a lot more acquainted with misinformation and conspiracy theories, and we look at the extreme pro-gun movement, which Congressman Comer is a flag-flying member, these are really some of the originators of like big lies and misinformation and conspiracy theories.

They peddle these manifestly false ideas like guns make me safer, when every available piece of information tells us that the exact opposite is true. They tell us that passing even the most incremental and commonsense and effective gun laws will -- rather than make me safer as a country, will actually lead to the government confiscating all Americans' guns and starting, you know, -- you know, a descent into fascism or something like that, and then they say the gun laws don't work, which was what he was talking about, and of course again the opposite is true.

If you look at gun crime across the United States, states with stronger gun laws have less gun crime. States with weaker gun laws have more gun crime. Furthermore, two-thirds of crime guns recovered at crime scenes in states with stronger gun laws actually come from states with weaker gun laws, so if gun laws don't matter, then why are folks heading --

BROWN: Right. AMBLER: (INAUDIBLE) gun laws in states with weaker gun laws to find

those guns and being them back and commit crimes?

BROWN: And I made that point to Congressman Comer last night.

Shannon, I want to put up a tweet from columnist Daniel Hodges. He wrote, "In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of U.S. gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over." Do you agree with that?

SHANNON WATTS, FOUNDER, MOMS DEMAND ACTION: No. It's my least favorite tweet that's ever been tweeted. And let me tell you why. So much has happened in this country in the last eight years on this issue. First of all, Moms Demand Action happened, Students Demand Action, we're the largest gun violence prevention organization in the country. In fact with six million members. We're larger than the NRA.

And we have taken them on in statehouses and city council and school boards, and boardrooms. And we're winning. It's so important to remember that we have passed dozens and dozens of good gun laws.

We have stopped the NRA's agenda in statehouses 90 percent of the time for the last five years year after year. Hundreds of companies have changed their policies because we have put pressure on them along with our partners at Giffords and other gun violence prevention organizations.

We are winning. But it takes several election cycles to show lawmakers that when they do the right thing, you'll have their backs, and when they do the wrong thing, you'll have their jobs. And I want to be clear that the only place in America where this issue is polarizing is in the U.S. Senate. Ninety percent of Americans, 89 percent of gun owners, 87 percent of Republicans support a background check on every single gun sale.

This is something that should get done and if it doesn't -- if those senators vote against this bill it will be at their own political peril, but I am very hopeful that we are on the precipice of major federal change.

BROWN: And you are referring to the Quinnipiac poll showing the public support, bipartisan support behind those background -- universal background checks.

[18:35:05]

It languishes in the Senate as we speak, Peter. But it does raise the question, because pro-gun conservative say, well, these bills won't do anything to stop mass shootings. What do you say about that? How much of an impact do you think universal background checks will have on limiting mass shootings in America?

AMBLER: Well, I think that's the wrong question. The right question of course is, how do you stop gun violence? Period. How do you take a national crisis --

BROWN: Well, yes, but I mean, exactly. But it's step by step by step. So the question is relevant in that regard.

AMBLER: Yes, I think obviously when you look at universal background checks where they have been implemented in the states, you see significant decreases in gun violence. There have been numerous studies.

Look at Connecticut in the '90s, they've implemented a permit to purchase universal background checks law. They saw a 40 percent decrease in gun crimes. You saw the inverse of that happen in the state of Missouri when they repeal a permit to purchase universal background check law in 2007.

Gun crime shot up and what we see in that state these days is that 70 people die every year who otherwise wouldn't have, simply because they repealed the strong gun law that they already had on the books. I don't -- I don't know what is seeming in the way of some of these Republicans in Congress.

It's obviously a situation where the GOP doesn't have an answer to this national crisis. We have, you know, a million people shot over the course of a decade. The Democratic Party is united. They're arrested. You have Joe Biden and Kamala Harris who ran on the most significant gun safety platform in history.

They were on the -- you know, just a week away from them taking significant executive action. The polls responded, shows that the country is with President Biden and Vice President Harris. And now the pressure is on the Republicans in the Senate.

BROWN: Right.

AMBLER: Because we can't not find as a nation, the institution of Congress can't say we don't have an answer to the millions of Americans who are scared to send their kids to school, who are scared to go to work, and if we're not able to do something in this Congress, to pass universal background checks, the bare minimum, supported by 90 percent of Americans, like Shannon said, the politics is on our side. The NRA is in disarray and they're going to pay the price at the ballot -- at the ballot box.

BROWN: Right. And that raises the question, Shannon, how much power and sway does the NRA still have? Because I've interviewed Democratic lawmakers who say well, the reason why more Republicans are getting on board with this is because of the power of the NRA even though they have been weakened significantly. What do you think about that? How much is the NRA factoring into Republican senators' resistance to want to vote and support those background check bills?

WATTS: Well, you know, if that's something they're thinking about, they're thinking about the wrong things because the NRA is weaker than it's ever been and the gun safety movement is stronger than it's ever been. You were talking about what changed since 2013.

Another thing that's changed is about a quarter of all Democrats at one point had an A rating from the NRA. Today none do. And that's because this movement now has shown lawmakers that they need to be much more afraid of angry Americans than angry gun lobbyists.

And over and over again we're seeing our wins, whether it's flipping the House, flipping the Virginia legislature, winning the presidency, the Senate and the House, now is the time to act on this gun legislation. And, you know, this isn't just about mass shootings.

This is about the daily gun violence that kills over 100 Americans, that includes gun violence in city centers. Gun violence that's impacting black and brown Americans. Mass shootings are about 1 percent of the gun violence in this country. We need our lawmakers to act and time is of the essence.

BROWN: It certainly is. All right, Shannon Watts, Peter Ambler, thanks so much both of you.

AMBLER: Thanks so much for having us.

WATTS: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, supporters of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny say he is near death in a Russian prison, and are calling for nationwide protest. Our CNN senior global affairs analyst Bianna Golodryga joins me next.

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[18:43:16]

BROWN: Well, the United States government is formally calling on Russia to give medical care to an opposition leader who is reportedly dying in prison. Alexei Navalny is a longtime critic of the Kremlin in general and President Vladimir Putin in particular. He was sent to prison in February, is now on a hunger strike and a spokeswoman now says Navalny is at the end of his life.

CNN's senior global affairs analyst, Bianna Golodryga joins me now.

So, Bianna, we're talking about the man who nearly died last night from a poisoning that was blamed on the Russian government. Now he's reportedly near death in prison. What more can Western leaders do for him at this stage besides plead for Moscow to treat him more humanely?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Pamela, at this point, the evidence shows that what Western leaders including the U.S. have been doing thus far is not enough. And it may not be enough. As you mentioned those allies around him say he is just days away from death.

He is entering his 20th day of a hunger strike now. He has lost nearly 40 pounds since he has been in prison and we have heard from President Biden, his first phone call with Vladimir Putin, he talked about the need to release Navalny. And he talked about how unjust it is that he is being detained.

But what I expected to hear this week from that second phone call was the readout showing that Navalny was brought up again, in addition to the other sanctions that the U.S. imposed against Russia. And we didn't hear his name brought up, and Jake Sullivan actually addressed this issue this morning. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We actually have made the judgment that direct communication to the Russian government on this issue including both how we see it, how our allies and partners see it, and what might unfold should something terrible happen to Mr. Navalny should he -- well, terrible things of course have already happened to him but should he pass away.

[18:45:07]

And we have judged that rather than just make general statements publicly, the best way to deal with this issue is privately and through diplomatic channels, direct to the upper most levels of the Russian government.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: And yet while they have been discussing this with Russia privately behind channels there, we clearly see that nothing is being done to get an outside doctor in to see Alexei Navalny for complications that he has had since he has been in prison. And there is a lot of concern that once he passes away, if he passes away, this is going to be a big problem not only for Vladimir Putin internationally, but domestically at home.

He is like kryptonite for Vladimir Putin. And Vladimir Putin at this point, given the sanctions that have been imposed against him, doesn't view those sanctions as a high enough threat as opposed to the threat that Navalny faces -- that he faces from Navalny right now.

BROWN: So Russian officials as we know are also moving to label Navalny supporters as extremists. What does that mean exactly inside Russia for people who are working to get him freed from prison?

GOLODRYGA: It's another threat to keep those supporters at home, not to protests. Navalny supporters and those that have organized the anti-corruption fund around him, his organization, have now said that they are going to have a rally in support, a protest in support of Navalny this Wednesday, and they have been hoping to do this once they had 500,000 people onboard to do it.

Now they know that time is imminent, is of the essence because he is approaching death's door given what we are hearing from them right now. This new extremist label from the Russian government that prosecutors are hoping to impose on them is another way to threaten them.

You remember the protests that we saw earlier this year surrounding Navalny's imprisonment, we saw 6,000 Russians that were arrested following those protest, and this is another way for Russians to warn those who are going to come out to support him and to instill fear because once again this is somebody who the Kremlin, who Vladimir Putin fears desperately, will be a threat to him and that's why they are going to whatever extreme, whatever measures they can take to suppress this at home.

And I'm not saying that this is an easy decision from President Biden to want to cool tensions right now, and de-escalate tensions as we are seeing tens of thousands of Russian troops amass near the border of Ukraine, but the two aren't mutually exclusive, and so the president could be doing more by furthering sanctions, the sanctions against those oligarchs, surrounding Alexei Navalny, as opposed to now giving Putin what he wants which is at least a proposition of a summit.

Every world leader should be talking about Alexei Navalny and doing that regularly until we do see that he is getting the help that he needs.

BROWN: And we heard Jake Sullivan today said that there would be consequences if Navalny does die at the hands of Russians there in prison. What that might look like, unclear.

Brianna, thank you so much as always for bringing us the latest on this situation there in Russia. We appreciate it.

Well, isn't it time to just let it go? Republican Senator Tom Cotton is threatening to stall nominations of U.S. attorneys who come from Democratic states. Petty politics at its worst. Amanda Carpenter is up next.

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[18:53:06]

BROWN: Last month, Senate Judiciary Committee Democrats moved forward on a Justice Department nominee over GOP objections. And this week Republican Senator Tom Cotton proved he sure knows how to hold a grudge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): There must be consequences when the Democrats break the rules. And here's what the consequences are going to be in this case. I will refuse consent or time agreements for the nomination of any U.S. attorney from any state represented by a Democrat on the Judiciary Committee.

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BROWN: When he says Democrats broke the rules, he is referring to Senator Dick Durbin cutting him off while speaking against the nomination of Anita Gupta to be associate attorney general, and then holding a vote before noon. But Democrats say Republicans were trying to use a procedural trick to stall Gupta's nomination that would have prevented a vote.

CNN political commentator Amanda Carpenter joins me now. She is a former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz and political columnist for the Bulwark. Thanks for coming on. Great to see you. Confirming nominees to U.S.

attorney post are typically noncontroversial, right? The Senate Judiciary now is blasting Cotton in this tweet that says U.S. attorneys prosecute terrorists and human traffickers. Cotton wants to obstruct them from protecting our communities and our nation. How damaging could this be, and who ultimately loses here, Amanda?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, the Senate Judiciary Committee is a place where things can get incredibly tense. This is the committee that hears Supreme Court nominees. And so there's been a lot of drama there, especially over the past few years when it comes to confirming judges. But what seems really unusual about what Cotton is doing here is that he is taking the punishment and aiming it at fellow members of the committee.

There are a lot of reasons that senators would want to place a hold on a nominee or use procedural tactics to slow things down. But that's not exactly what Cotton is doing here because he wants to punish in particular Senator Dick Durbin for cutting off his time prematurely.

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That seems like something they should be able to work out among themselves and not in public like this, but this is where things are at the current moment.

BROWN: And let's talk about where else things are when you look at Marjorie Taylor Green scrapping plans for her America First caucus after outrage that it was racist. Kevin McCarthy condemned the idea, but he didn't call her out directly. Should he have gone farther to make it clear the Republican Party doesn't stand for that?

CARPENTER: Listen, she has a lot of wacky out-of-the-mainstream ideas. She has been stripped of her committee assignments. And I do think Republican leaders are really at a loss of what to do with someone like Marjorie Taylor Green, because she was elected.

But what I keep coming back to where that moment of decision-making really needed to be made, needed to be made last summer when she was following around Parkland gun rights activist David Hogg on Capitol Hill as he was engaging in advocacy for stricter gun control, which is his right.

But she followed him with a video camera, essentially harassing him, and I'm not going to repeat the things that she said, to click on internet, to try to make herself famous at this person's expense. That was a time when anyone of good conscience could have intervened to say that this is a woman who doesn't have a character to be a member of Congress. But she is there now. The opportunity has sailed. And so the only thing that should be done is she should be hopefully primaried and defeated.

BROWN: And she is raising a lot of money at the same time. Just looking at her and how some of the others who are closely aligned with Trump have fundraised off of some of the lies like the election lie. It's pretty remarkable. Amanda Carpenter, thanks so much.

CARPENTER: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, tonight, people are gathering where George Floyd died in Minneapolis last year as cities including Minneapolis brace for the verdict in the trial of the former police officer who is charged with his murder.

We're live in that city up next.

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