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Jurors Reach Verdict in Murder Trial of Ex-Officer Derek Chauvin; Verdict Will Be Announced Shortly. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 20, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Probably not.

So again this case is so unusual on so many fronts, you have all of that video evidence that was presented. How, you know, unusual is that? That the whole incident from the start of Mr. Floyd in Cup Foods until he's taken away by ambulance was caught on videotape.

You have a police chief and an army of literally of police officers from that police department testifying against that officer. Also, when you look at, you know, the evidence that was presented, the overwhelming evidence presented by the prosecution, and I shouldn't -- I'd be remiss without mentioning, you have a diverse jury. You have four African-Americans and two individuals that consider themselves mixed race. So again some circumstances that are not typically seen in these cases.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: But so Areva, just so we understand, is it your feeling -- and I know we don't have any answers -- but that because 12 people have now decided --and we'll be hearing their verdict at 4:30 Eastern time -- it's been 11 hours, is it your hunch that that means what, what verdict?

MARTIN: Yes, you know, obviously, no crystal ball, not in the deliberation rooms. I'm not in the business of predicting what people do that I don't have, you know, eyewitness to myself, but my experience tells me that we could be looking at a guilty verdict. At least if not all the charges, at least on some of these charges. Because when you think about the three charges and what it would take to acquit, if that was going to be the decision by this jury, I would have expected more time involved in their deliberations.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right, Areva Martin, stand by for us. Let's go now to the courthouse. Sara Sidner is there. Sara, you broke the news of this verdict now being reached. What do you know?

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, a verdict has been reached. It is the thing that everyone has been waiting for here in Minneapolis and, frankly, for around the world. I can have -- I can hear myself talking so if we could fix that, that would be great. There are a lot of folks that now know this information. The court has

just released the information out to the media and the media is now going to report that to the public. So, everyone in this town and around America and the world will know that a verdict has been reached.

The court has now said that between 3:30 and 4:30 we will hear the verdict out of the words of the foreperson in this jury. We are expecting to hear whether or not -- we now know it is not going to be a hung jury. This jury has made a decision.

We know that it has taken -- they were four hours, they deliberated yesterday. And I have to do the math right now because I think they started at, yes, 8:00 a.m. local time. So that's five more hours. So we're talking about nine hours that they have been deliberating before they came to the court and -- or told the court that they had reached a verdict in this case.

This is a case, while in the court, it was a case just -- and the Judge made this clear, just about the former Officer, Derek Chauvin, and whether or not his actions were second-degree murder, whether or not his actions were second degree murder or third-degree murder.

And he made very clear to the jurors that this was not about what was happening in the world. It was not about anything but the facts of this case.

But outside of the court, it is a seminal case for many people, whether you are African-American, whether you are a police officer, whether you're black or white, Latino. Doesn't really matter what your background is. This, everyone realizes, is a big case in this country. It could mean something to a lot of people.

A seminal case if you will. And so the nerves that exist here, there is concern, there is fear, there is anger, there is sorrow. All of the things that you can feel as a human being, we're feeling right now in spades here in Minneapolis, as we understand that a jury has decided in this case, and we will hear their decision in the next hour or so.

CAMEROTA: And Sara again, you are just breaking the news for us about this, that a verdict has been reached in the Derek Chauvin murder trial. In less than an hour, we will find out, 4:30 East coast time, we will find out what that verdict is.

How is Minneapolis preparing? What are they doing during this hour? What's happening?

SIDNER: Look, there are two groups that are preparing. One, you've got the group of people like the government and businesses who have boarded up, who have put troops on the ground, literally, who have brought in extra police on the ground, who are concerned about whatever the reaction is going to be to the verdict.

And then you have the citizens, and you have the Floyds and you have those who have been protesting, not for days but for nearly a year. And the folks that have kept memorial going in George Floyd Square. [15:35:00]

And that is where you are -- we are unsure of exactly how they have prepared themselves because it will be an emotional reaction. It will be difficult. I called someone down at the square and asked them what they thought of the fact that a jury has made a decision, that this will not be a hung jury. And the first word out of this person's mouth was, I'm scared. I don't know what they decided. I am concerned. I don't know what to think. My stomach just dropped.

So, I think that reflects what a lot of people are feeling. But no one is going to feel that more acutely than the Floyd family. Philonise Floyd is here, his brother Terrence Floyd is here, Rodney Floyd. You've got a lot of the Floyd family members who are here. They have been waiting for this day. They have been begging and asking for justice. They are hoping that the jury has come back with a guilty verdict.

But this is a jury that has its own mind. There are 12 people that have gone through a lot of evidence, that have sat for many weeks now, who have been looking at every single possible detail in this case that was brought before the court from the 45 witnesses that they heard, 38 of them, the prosecution, 7 of them from the defense.

Everything from family members like Philonise who got on the stand and talked about how much his brother meant to him and the family to, you know, us to you know use-of-force experts and medical experts, many medical experts and use-of-force experts who took the stand as well.

And then you have those witnesses, those people who were there on the ground the day it happened. They are all feeling something extremely strongly right now. We actually -- we were able to talk to one of those witnesses, and he told us that no matter what happens, he believes that justice will be served in some way, shape or form. But he said he would not be surprised if this jury came back and said not guilty.

And I asked him why. And he said, Donald Williams, who was on the stand, who was there that day when George Floyd took his last breath, he said, you know, it's what we have come to expect as black people from this country's justice system. And so he said he is trying to take care of his own heart, his own family, as this happens.

But this is a huge moment, a huge moment for America, it's a huge moment for black folks. It's a big moment for police and policing in this country. There's no other way to say it. And the emotions couldn't be higher. The feeling here couldn't be stronger.

Can I just take this call? It's Philonise Floyd. Just give me one minute.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: For sure. Let's bring in Areva -- BLACKWELL: Let's bring in Areva Martin. And I want to pick up on that point that Sara just made because you and I have discussed here many times that the charging of a law enforcement official is rare. The conviction of a law enforcement official is even more rare.

And when you consider the context in which this verdict comes, after what we watched, the killing of George Floyd, that video, and then what the conversation became globally. Not just here in the U.S., about systemic racism and discrimination. Your expectations of the consequences, the ramifications of what we're going to hear in about an hour?

MARTIN: Yes, Victor, you're so right. We've been having this conversation not just this year but even before this year about policing in this country and what it means to be an African-American who faces fear. We hear African-American men in particular and even women talking about the fear that they experience doing everyday things, driving a car, going to the grocery store, being in a park, barbecuing with their family and friends.

And now we have a case that was witnessed, where the assault on George Floyd was witnessed by millions and millions of people. And there were moments during this trial where people felt it was more, quote/unquote, of the same. That it would be very difficult to get a conviction of Derek Chauvin.

I actually heard the District Attorney from Baltimore who prosecuted the officers in the Freddie Gray case talk about for her, she was so excited to see the chief of police testify in this case because in the case against the officers who were charged for killing Freddie Gray, the training officers for that police department actually testified on behalf of the defense, not the prosecution.

What a big step it was in terms of having this blue line of silence being broken by this case. So, this case represents so much, I think, in the struggle for civil rights and in the struggle to address the inequities in our criminal justice system.

[15:40:00]

We have not seen a case, a high profile such as this where you have a chief of police come forward, where you have a training officer come forward, where you have so many police officers say this conduct was wrong, that this conduct was illegal and that this officer should be held accountable.

CAMEROTA: Areva, I want to dive into what we might hear when the jury comes into the courtroom in terms of their verdict. And it's so interesting, you know, Victor and I have been on here for an hour and a half and it felt like the deliberations were just going slowly, it was molasses, and then suddenly. And I guess that's how these things work. It's never going to happen, and then it's sudden.

Here are the possibilities. Second-degree unintentional murder, it carries a 40-year sentence. Third-degree murder carries a 25-year sentence. Second-degree manslaughter, it carries a 10-year sentence. And so, what can the jury do? I mean, can there be a combination of these things that we hear in less than an hour?

MARTIN: Absolutely, Alisyn. We can hear this jury, they're going to have to opine, they are going to have to give us a verdict on each of those counts. And the judge is going to ask them -- well, one of the things we'll learn, that we don't know right now is who is the foreperson of the jury.

When I was on earlier, we were talking to the jury expert about the nurse who's on this jury who has a lot of medical background and experience with cases involving, you know, people who lose oxygen, people who have cardiac issues.

And one question is, did she become the foreperson? So, we heard, you know, some profiles of the different jurors, so we're going to learn, when they come back into this courtroom in an hour or so, who did they select because the jurors themselves make the decision themselves about who that foreperson will be.

And that's the only person we're going to hear from as the Judge asks that foreperson to read the verdict out loud, put it on the record, you know, the record in this case means in open court. And before the world to see.

BLACKWELL: Areva, thanks so much. We want to bring back Sara Sidner who just got off the phone with Philonise Floyd, George Floyd's brother. Tell us about that conversation.

SIDNER: He didn't know. He didn't know that there was a verdict. I told him that there was a verdict. Philonise Floyd took a deep breath. He said, I think I know what they have decided. I asked him what he thought that they decided and I'm not going to say it on the air. Because I need the jury and I need this to be very clear. That this is the jury's decision. And whatever the jury says is what is going to stand. And so, I won't share that part of the conversation.

But I will share this, he said for the rest of the country, this will be an historic decision in this case. But for the family, this is a personal, a personal issue. An issue that is deeply, deeply, deeply personal for every single member of the Floyd family. And he said, for us, this is our heart that is being, you know, affected in ways that no one can imagine. But for the rest of the country, he does believe this case is a seminal case, that it is a historic case, no matter what happens with this jury, that it will be historic.

But he also said something else about the fact that this case even came into the court, was even charged in the first place. He said, this is what should be happening and should have been happening in cases like theirs, with other situations between police and particularly police and African-Americans in this country.

He said, you know, in his mind, when the police do something incorrect, when the police take a life, when they -- it is not self- defense, when their lives were not at stake, in his mind, then they should be treated like everyone else in this country, every other citizen. So, that is the sentiment from Philonise Floyd, George Floyd's

brother. He was unaware that a verdict had been reached. I told him that a verdict had been reached. And he reacted with calm. He said -- he was telling me it's going to be all right. I mean --

CAMEROTA: Yes, he's an incredible person, Sara, he's an incredible person. I totally agree. Having gotten -- as we've gotten to know him since this, you know, this tragedy happened to his family in May, he is an incredible person as that whole family is.

BLACKWELL: Forced into a position that no family should be in. and we're going to bring in Laura Coates and Elie Honig into this conversation, but, Sara, stay with us as well.

Laura Coates, first to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, and also, Elie, Areva, Laura, thank you all. I know you've been standing by and waiting for this. Laura, the idea that it's now happening, it's about to happen. We are going to hear from the jury. It's been 11 hours. What do you make of it?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this to me is way too short of a time. You can never make full predictions here but the idea of grappling with a holdout, the idea of someone trying to understand and go through the nuances of it and have to be convinced. This is a very short amount of time for the full consideration of all the elements and there to be a holdout on one of the charges.

What I mean by that, of course, that I think that there may have been consensus on all three charges.

[15:45:00]

We've not seen a single jury note here, not indicating in any way, shape or form. Alisyn and Victor, that there was any confusion about the language in these charges. Confusion about what it meant to have a depraved heart. Confusion about what it means to be culpably negligent. Confused about what it might in fact mean to have an nonintentional murder charge where you still have to prove the intent to commit the act, if not the intent to kill.

This was a very complicated, sort of nuanced set of laws here and the jury within 11 hours was able to reconcile each of it, process the information and they must come back unanimous on every single charge for them to have this quick resolution.

BLACKWELL: Elie?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: First thing's first, juries are inherently unpredictable. Anyone who tries to predict what a jury is going to do ahead of time is setting himself or herself up for failure.

That said, the conventional wisdom is that quick verdict like this, a clean verdict, we didn't get a single note is generally seen as a good thing for the prosecution. That's a rule of thumb. Rules of thumbs are meant to be broken. But that's conventional thinking within prosecutors' office. And most of the time in my experience, that's the way things go.

The one thing we know for certain which is very important is this, there is not a hung jury. One of the fears any prosecutor ever has that one juror can hang a jury. Eleven to one can hang a jury. You never know.

We now know if this is indeed a verdict on all three counts, and that's what it sounds like from the official word from the Minnesota courts, if this is a verdict on all three counts, it is not a hung jury. If I'm the prosecutor, that's a big sigh of relief.

CAMEROTA; Guys, as you can see, we are joined by commissioner Charles Ramsey. Commissioner Charles Ramsey, you've been with us every day of this, this whole trial, every hour of every day. And so what are your thoughts as we await word now from the jury on their verdict?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERT: Well, listen, if it is a conviction, you'll hear a collective sigh of relief from police chiefs and sheriffs across the country. I have spoken to a lot of them and believe me, everyone is kind of holding their breath on this one because you know what would happen should there be an acquittal or even if there's, you know, one out of the three counts a conviction.

But the police have to be vigilant all night because regardless of what the outcome is, they're going to have to be vigilant because you've seen even celebrations turn bad. And so they're going to have to be out there and be alert. But there's going to be a sigh of relief if this is a conviction, no question about it.

BLACKWELL: So again, we are expecting that verdict will be read between 4:30 and 5:30 Eastern, so that window opens in about 45 minutes from now. Laura, what's happening over the next 45 minutes as we prepare to hear the jury's decision?

COATES: Remember, the jurors were not deliberating on site or on location. We were told they were staying at a hotel. They were being sequestered. So there is a transportation factor. We also knew that if there was going to be a note handed over to the Judge, they could do this by Zoom where defendant, Derek Chauvin, his counsel and the prosecution team would not have to all compile and come to the courthouse, which is normally what's done in every trial. You actually have to be there to hear the jury note read by the Judge and then be able to reconcile it.

Here you're gathering the different parties together. You're ensuring people have access to the court who should be there. You're also providing for security. As you've seen all across this nation. And this is, again, not because they know the outcome of the verdict, but because they are anticipating a wide spectrum of responses depending upon the verdict.

Considering what the security measures will have to be for the Judge, the attorneys, the defendant, if he is acquitted, he will be able to be free, which means he would be able to leave the courthouse. If he is convicted, he could be what's called step back, which means he's taken into custody yet again. He's been on release for the duration of this summer and the fall and the winter.

And, of course, the security of the jurors who up until now, of course, their identity has not been known by people and that's a good thing for the sanctity of juries in America. So right now, all the different logistics are happening right now.

CAMEROTA: And Elie, I know that it is a fool's errand to try to predict the timing of a jury, but I think that you were thinking it wouldn't be this fast.

HONIG: Correct, Alisyn. I said in our prior segment earlier this show, I said, I have faith in the jury. I said, I believe they will get to a verdict. I don't think they're going to hang. There's a lot of processes in place that push a jury towards reaching a consensus.

We were just talking about it's hard to get 12 human beings to agree on anything. And viewers might rightly wonder, in a case that was this hard-fought, that's this controversial, how can they ever get to a consensus?

Well, the Judge gave the instructions to the jury yesterday, they're the standard instructions. You are to work together, you are to keep an open mind, you are to consider alternate viewpoints and it is your job, if humanly possible, to reach a verdict.

This is quick. This is quicker than I expected. And like I said, the general thinking, you cannot predict a jury, but the general thinking is that's a good thing for the prosecution. Again, if you're the prosecutor, you know this jury has not hung.

[15:50:00]

That is a huge piece of good news if you're the prosecutor here.

BLACKWELL: Yes, chief, we spoke with Sara before we learned that there was a verdict that had come in, and she told us about some of the preps there in Minneapolis. We showed some of the boarded up businesses in Chicago and D.C., if you're chief again back in D.C., the metropolitan police department or commissioner in Philadelphia, what are you doing for the next 45 minutes to an hour?

RAMSEY: Mobilizing all my civil disturbance platoons, making sure that they are deployed properly in different parts of the city. Unfortunately, because of past incidents you kind of know the points or the places where you really need to pay attention, and so right now they are making sure everybody is there.

They are already on 12-hour shifts. Days off have been cancelled, so now you're just mobilizing and making sure people are in the right place whenever this verdict is read, and we can deal with whatever comes up.

CAMEROTA: And commissioner, just to follow up on what you told us a few minutes ago. When you said that there's a collective sigh of relief from police chiefs around the country, you've spoken to many of them. You don't -- I assume that you mean because there --

RAMSEY: Because of a conviction.

CAMEROTA: If there's a conviction and because that means to you that there would be less rioting.

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, listen, that's a part of it, but it's just the right thing. I mean, what Derek Chauvin did was so far out of training, out of policy. I mean, he brought discredit upon an entire profession, everybody in this profession were impacted by this.

And that's why if there is a conviction, people will be relieved, and not just chiefs. I'm talking about the men and women that are out there every day trying to do the job properly, engaged in constitutional policing.

Now, I realize we've got some people that don't do that, but this sends a strong message that that kind of activity, that kind of behavior just will not be tolerated. And thank God it won't be because we need to make sure that we can put in place the kind of changes that need to be put in place for policing in order to survive in the 21st century. Status quo cannot continue.

BLACKWELL: Control room, can I go back to Sara Sidner. Is she standing by?

Sara, let me come back to you. Philonise Floyd has been in that courtroom. You would know this, I don't, many days if not every day. I expect he will be back there for the reading of the verdict. Is that correct?

SIDNER: I do not know the answer to that because he didn't know that the verdict had come forward. I do think that at least one member of the family from the Floyd family and from Chauvin's family or someone who -- there are two seats there, so they have got one set aside for anyone that Chauvin would want in the room and one seat set aside for anyone from the Floyd family who wants to be in the room.

You know, I have to admit that it jarred me a little that he hadn't heard yet, and I do realize that we got some of this information literally ten minutes before the court put the information out. I heard it from, you know, a couple of federal employees and a couple of local officials as well.

And so, to have spoken with him and to have heard him take that sigh and then tell me it was going to be all right, and then to have heard him say that he -- he believes he knows what the jury has decided. He trusts that the jury has in his words put it, you know, done the right thing in his words, and he has faith.

He also talked very much about the fact that he knows that this is an historic moment, and he feels very strongly a deep personal pain, but he believes that he is going to see justice.

CAMEROTA: Sara, stand by for us if you would. We really appreciate you breaking the news for us here that the verdict is in and the jury is getting ready to read it.

Let's go to Omar Jimenez, he is on the street. He has been reporting there as well. Omar, what are you seeing and feeling on the street there?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, we are at ground zero for what happened to George Floyd. This, of course, behind us is the intersection now known as George Floyd Square since this happened last May.

And as we've been talking to people throughout here, there has been a combination of emotions. Some tenseness, some nervousness, some even fearful of what the verdict might bring. But at the end of the day one woman we spoke to said that no matter what happens, they are still going to be in the streets. They are still going to remain in solidarity with each other because they believe that this moment is not just about George Floyd. It was sparked by him, but it means so much more, and it has the potential to send reverberations for generations to come.

[15:55:00]

And when you look at many so of the messages and the faces that are here at George Floyd Square, of course, pinned down in the middle by the fists raised in the air, are Philando Castile, other names, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, Tamir Rice, people that have come here and visited over the course of today feel

that this verdict comes on the shoulders of these black bodies that are now no longer here with us.

And, of course, George Floyd's as the most recent one as part of that, and at least the most relevant one for his final resting place in many ways. Some of his last breaths were taken just across this intersection here. And so this moment means so much to the people here, and we can only imagine that once that comes down, no matter what it is, people are going to be in the streets either in solidarity or in anger. Because as one activist put it the to me earlier, when you keep getting pushed and you keep getting pushed, eventually you push back. They are hoping that at least for just a little bit they don't have to push anymore.

BLACKWELL: Omar Jimenez for us there, 38th and Chicago. Thank you so much. Listen, some of the faces he showed didn't get verdicts because there were no charges.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Let's go to Van Jones now. Van, the special prosecutor said that this is about what Derek Chauvin did, not who he is, but for so many in this country the verdict here correlates to a concern over policing across the country. Your first thoughts and the context of what we're about to hear?

VAN JONES, CNN HOST: I've been in communication with a lot of people on the ground in Minnesota. They feel like the humanity of a generation is on trial. People keep saying the system is on trial. It's not just the system. It's that they feel their humanity is on trial.

Can this system ever truly respect black life? To have this -- this videotaped lynching goes around the world. People want to know. You know, does my life matter? It's not just a slogan. It's not just a political talking point. Does my life matter as a young person trying to make it in this country?

And, you have a lot of people who have been organizing, they are exhausted. I cannot tell you the level of just pure fatigue in that community. Because this is not the first -- remember, you are Philando Castile, you have so many other cases.

This is the one that finally we hope will get some justice but what you're hearing is fatigue, exhaustion and people afraid to hope. They are excited because they think, hey, it came back early. Maybe that's a good thing.

But even with that, even with all the evidence, and even with all the police testifying against the officer, even with the speedy verdict, even with Keith Ellison coming in and saving the day as the State Attorney General, even with all that people are literally afraid to hope. They are holding their breath and preparing for another body blow.

This going to -- you have young people watching right now. 40 years from now they will remember today, 50 years from now they will remember today. This is how important this is to a whole generation of young Americans.

CAMEROTA: And Van, what if it's not a guilty verdict?

JONES: I think it sends a very, very devastating -- I mean devastating -- people are hanging on by the tendrils of a piece of dental floss right now, just barely holding on. The level of fatigue, the level of frustration, seeing the defense come out yesterday and spend two hours just saying what seemed to be just complete nonsense. Never dealing with the fact that this man was on this man's back for nine minutes.

He's never apologized. He's never acknowledged anything, this officer, and so people are barely hanging on. So if it comes back negative, if it comes back the message to a generation will be you don't matter. Your life doesn't matter. Your pain doesn't matter. Your protests don't matter. Your voting didn't matter.

Putting this man in office, Keith Ellison, a great State Attorney General, even that didn't matter, so I can't tell you. I wish I could say something different.

Now, I hope whatever the verdict is people handle themselves responsibly, but I have to be very honest. People will -- people will feel that their humanity has been flushed down the toilet and that anything can be done to us now. If a police officer can do this, what can't they do to us? What can't they do to our children? So that is what's at stake here, and every minute now is just agony. People waiting to see how this thing comes down. BLACKWELL: You talked about this in the broader scope in the last 30

or 40 seconds we have now. I want you to narrow it and talk to me about your thoughts and feelings about Philonise Floyd, the Floyd family, as they are waiting for this verdict.

JONES: Listen, I mean, everybody is holding this family in prayer and in their hearts. You know, they had to see this over and over again. Can you imagine this being shown -- somebody you love -- this is not a name. It's not just George Floyd a name.

This is a human being who they knew, who they loved, and to see this -- him being tortured to death over and over and over again and look at the dignity. Look at the dignity. Let's stop taking black dignity for granted. Let's stop taking black strength for granted. Nobody should have to go through this, and this -- and this family is a treasure to this country.

CAMEROTA: Van, we really appreciate getting your perspective on all of this as we all wait and hold our breathe for what's about to happen. Again, the breaking news, the verdict is in in the Derek Chauvin trial and CNN's special coverage continues with Jake Tapper, Don Lemon, and Anderson Cooper right now.

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