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Family of Andrew Brown Jr. Demands Release of Police Body Cam Video; Today, Biden Unveils New Guidance on Wearing Masks Outdoors; Riot Suspect Seen in Viral Photo at Pelosi's Desk Scheduled to Appear in Court Today. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 27, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good Tuesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Poppy Harlow. We're so glad you're with us.

Well, minutes from now, the family of Andrew Brown Jr., a black man shot and killed by police almost a week ago now in North Carolina, will release the results of an independent autopsy. It comes as the family is demanding the public release of the entire police body camera video after they say they were only shown an edited 20-second clip.

SCIUTTO: Brown's son on CNN this morning described what he saw while watching that redacted footage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHALIL FEREBEE, SON OF ANDREW BROWN JR.: It was an execution, you know? It's not -- it's video that no son should see, you know, dealing with his father at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Amazing families having to watch this. CNN also obtained new video showing the aftermath of the shooting, this shot by a neighbor.

Let's begin there with CNN's Brian Todd, is in Elizabeth City, North Carolina. I wonder, Brian, what does this other video shows, if anything?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim and Poppy, we are familiar with this video. We have spoken to that neighbor and several other neighbors, some of whom who witnessed what happened a week ago tomorrow. And this video shows not the shooting itself but the aftermath, the immediate aftermath of the shooting of Andrew Brown.

In the video, you can see Andrew Brown's car a bit of a distance away. It's across a grassy area and then across the street, Roanoke Avenue. He drove across that grassy area. In the video, you see his car crashed against a tree.

We spoke to the gentleman who owns that white house that's right next to that tree. That gentleman told us that a bullet from the shooting ripped through the front of his house and landed inside his house. Thankfully, no one was there at the time. But neighbors have told us, witnesses have told us that at about that time you are looking at this video, sheriff's deputies pulled Andrew Brown out of the vehicle and attempted life saving measures on him. Obviously, those measures did not work. So we have that video to talk about.

But also, of course, the operative video that everyone is talking about this morning, that 20-second snippet of the body cam video which the family and family's attorneys were able to view yesterday, not to anyone's satisfaction. Chantel Cherry-Lassiter, one of the family attorneys, spoke about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHANTEL CHERRY-LASSITER, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: They said they showed us the pertinent parts. And although they said that it was a 30-second encounter, we don't have any information to validate that. We've only seen that one snippet. We have seen one body cam video although there were numerous officers on the scene.

We are still trying to get transparency. We are still trying to obtain the rest of the -- if it is just ten more seconds, we would like the whole ten seconds, we would like to see all the body cam footage and dash cam. We would like any dash cam that's available.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: And so we have the family, the family's attorneys, the sheriff's office, the local county attorney and members of the media petitioning the courts for the release of the rest of that body cam video. We should know about that within the next couple days, we believe.

Interestingly, Chantel Cherry-Lassiter also gave us some pretty graphic descriptions of what she saw in that video. She said that Andrew Brown had his hands on the wheel the entire time. He posed no threat to them. Interestingly, she said that when that 20 seconds begins, the shooting is already going on. So the shooting could have started even before that segment of that clip. Poppy and Jim?

SCIUTTO: What alarming footage it must be to watch. Brian Todd, thank you very much.

So why have authorities still not released the full body cam footage almost a week after police shot and killed Andrew Brown Jr.? It is a question of the law. Current North Carolina State law different than that in many states across the U.S., where it is typically up to the police and prosecutors to release video. North Carolina law puts the release up to a judge. A judge, in effect, has to order it. It does not allow authorities to disclose video without that court order. My next guest is trying to change that, pass a new law. Joining me now, Ben Clark, he is a North Carolina state senator who has co- sponsored a bill that would require body-worn or dashboard camera video to be released 48 hours after an incident was recorded.

Mr. Clark, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

BEN CLARK (D), NORTH CAROLINA STATE SENATE: Jim, thank you for having me here. How you are doing today?

SCIUTTO: Not bad, not bad.

Before we get to what your law aims to do, as North Carolina law stands today, a judge would have to issue an order to release the full body cam video here. I'm curious what the standard is. Does the judge have to justify? How does a judge have to justify saying, no, we're only releasing this 20 seconds for now?

CLARK: Yes, that is correct. The current bill that you're referring to or should I say laws passed in 2016, so it's important to establish context. Back in 2016 or prior to that, we had no law that gave any rights to citizens to obtain the video associated with an incident such as what we have before us now.

Now, under the current law, of course, the individual had to seek a release of the video from the courts. Now, the court must determine whether or not there is any confidential information that is in the video, whether or not it might disparage an individual.

[10:05:02]

Maybe there could be an innocent person who happen to be caught in the video and would not want to cast dispersion on them. Whether or not there was a public interest for the release of the video, clearly, that is the case here. And there are about a few other factors that must be considered, about eight all together.

SCIUTTO: Well, what is the public interest in not -- I mean, in not releasing this here? I mean, it is a question of just the gruesomeness of it?

CLARK: I'm going to say there is no public interest in not releasing the video. But that is for the judge to determine, not me.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Okay, so you're sponsoring Senate Bill 510. It would require law enforcement agencies to release body or dashboard cam video after 48 hours have passed unless a court order says the release should be restricted. In other words, you err on the side of releasing the video here. GOP-run legislature in your state, do you have bipartisan support for this?

CLARK: Not yet, but hopefully we will be able to get bipartisan support. Because, remember, we're trying to shift the paradigm here. Under the current law, an individual has to seek the release of the video. Under my bill, if it is passed into law, the video will be released within two days essentially, 48 hours. Or they would have to retain authority from the courts in order to not release it. And by they, I mean the law enforcement entity involved.

SCIUTTO: Okay. But I'm just curious, if you have got the votes to pass this based on canvassing, particularly your Republican colleagues in the state house -- state senate rather.

CLARK: Right now, we do not have the votes to pass it, but hopefully that will change given all the incidents that have taken place over the recent years and even this week as we are -- or the last couple weeks or so. Maybe the sentiment will begin to shift because, clearly, we need to do something because the status quo is not acceptable.

If an individual is involved in some sort of incident, the family should have the right to go to the law enforcement authorities, have that video made available within 48 hours and then they can take the appropriate action.

SCIUTTO: It's interesting, we've seen other police departments --

CLARK: -- that it should not be placed upon the citizens.

SCIUTTO: Understood. We have seen other police departments move in that direction. I mean, for instance, after the shooting in Columbus recently, Ma'Khia Bryant, it was out very quickly. After the shooting in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota of Daunte Wright, the video was very quickly.

Do you believe the transparency helps police departments in incidents like this rather than hurts them?

CLARK: I think it helps the police department. Consider the case we're involved in now where the video has not been released. What do the citizens of our state say? I'm sure in their minds they're saying something must be going on. They must be trying to hide something. If they were not trying to hide something, they would release the video.

Now, they may not be trying to hide something, but, clearly, that is going to be the perception of the public because they're wondering what if Ohio or these other states can release the video within a couple of hours or a day or so, why can't we do that in North Carolina?

SCIUTTO: Yes, understood. Well, Ben Clark, hope we can stay in touch. We'll see where the bill goes in North Carolina.

CLARK: And hopefully everything will go well and we'll pass that bill. The citizens of North Carolina deserve it.

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much.

CLARK: No problem. You have a nice day, Jim. Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: You too.

HARLOW: All right. Well, a federal ban on chokeholds is one of the main sticking points between Democrats and Republicans negotiating the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. Right now, another is ending qualified immunity, basically protection against civil lawsuits for individual police officers. Where do things stand?

Let's go to our Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju on the Hill. What I think is so notable, Manu, is the sentiment from leaders in both parties that they do think that these are bridges that they can, you know -- or divides that they can bridge, if you will, and get something to the president's desk. Are the numbers nearly there?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's unusual because most issues divide the party so starkly and there is a lot of pessimism that there could be a deal. This one, there actually seems to be some optimism because the two approaches of the Republicans and the Democrats have put forward, they are different in some key ways but they have a lot similarities, and there's a desire on both sides that it must be done given everything that we're seeing across the country.

Negotiations are happening on a bipartisan basis. The party leaders have given Karen Bass, the Democrat in the House, and Senator Cory Booker in the Senate to be the Democratic negotiators. And the party leaders in the Republican Senate, you have Tim Scott, the Republican of South Carolina, the role of the chief negotiator. And they met last night and continue to make progress. Scott told me last night that he hopes that they can come to a deal by May.

And in an important development too, he told me last night the idea of a federal ban on chokeholds is not off the table. That was his word, not off the table. That is important because that had been a difference between the two bills. The Republican approach incentivize state departments, local departments to outlaw chokeholds by withholding federal grant money.

[10:10:06]

The Democratic approach had a federal ban. But it sounds like Scott is open to the idea of a federal ban.

But there are still major issues they're sorting through. You mentioned qualified immunity. That is making sure that people who have victims of police violence could sue individual police officers in court. That is not currently allowed under law. What Scott has proposed is for police departments themselves to be sued. They're still going back and forth on that language and about whether or not to lower the threshold to prosecute individual police officers. Democrats want to lower that threshold. So anyone who acted recklessly, a police officer could be charged with a crime. Scott is not for that.

So still some big issues to resolve but at least some optimism on both sides to potentially get a deal by next month. Poppy?

HARLOW: Yes, optimism is rare but welcome. Manu, thank you very much. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes, we'll see if it that bears out.

Well, still to come, big question for all of us. Do you still need to wear a mask outdoors after you have been vaccinated? It's just one of many questions President Biden is expected to answer for us just a few hours from now.

HARLOW: Plus, new concerns that the pandemic in India -- obviously, it is ravaging that country and could very well have a ripple effect around the world. We will speak with a congressman who wants the U.S. to do a lot more.

Then later, he was photographed in House Speaker Nancy PelosI's office, you remember that, during the Capitol insurrection. Now one of those suspects says he should be released from jail based on a note he left in her office? We'll explain ahead.

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[10:15:00]

HARLOW: In just a few hours, President Biden is expected to announce new CDC guidance for wearing masks outside as well as new recommendations for fully vaccinated Americans and the hope is this updated guidance may encourage more people to get vaccinated.

SCIUTTO: CNN White House Correspondent John Harwood with us now. John, this is notable, right, because Biden followed a president in Trump who repeatedly questioned masks, so they were not manly, refused to wear them at times, wore them at other times. Biden came in, so, listen, I'm asking you as a country to wear it for my first 100 days. How important and why is the president expected to make this change now?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's significant because what the president's attempting to do is say, if we follow the science, if we follow masking guidelines, until we get the pandemic under control, until vaccination rates up, then we can change down the road. And now as he's approaching the first 100 days, he's trying to build and sustain political momentum for his approach to say, we have done it for the first -- in terms of the pandemic, of course, he got his COVID relief plan, but we're also pivoting to the argument for his family's plan, this infrastructure plan.

And the scientists within the administration and cabinet members, including Xavier Becerra, the HHS secretary, have been teasing what that announcement is going to be about loosening up those mask guidelines. Here is Becerra this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

XAVIER BECERRA, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: The message is clear. You're vaccinated, guess what? You get to return to a more natural lifestyle. If you're not vaccinated, you're still a danger. You're still in danger as well. So get vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: So you've got the president poised to deliver good news on that front this afternoon. Also some good news for the rest of the world, he's been very cautious about sharing American vaccine supply until he was certain that Americans had enough supply for everyone.

But now we're approaching the point in the United States where the demand problem is getting to be a bigger issue than the supply problem. That is getting people to want to take the vaccine and with Pfizer, Moderna and J&J, they feel like they have enough supply that they can share the 10 million AstraZeneca doses that they have, not approved by the FDA yet. They're going to wait for that.

Another 50 million in development, going to share that with the rest of the world, both to help the rest of the world for its own sake but also because that helps the United States to try to get this pandemic under control around the world, reduce the development of new variants that could come back to bite the United States in the end.

HARLOW: John Harwood, thank you very much.

And let's start there on John's last point with Epidemiologist Dr. Jay Varkey. He is an associate professor of medicine at Emory University.

So, Dr. Varkey, understandable that the FDA has to give the green light, right, to these AstraZeneca vaccines before they're sent overseas. But that could be weeks or even up to two months, according to the White House. So what is the most helpful thing the United States could do today and in the near term for India?

DR. JAY VARKEY, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Yes, good morning, Poppy. And I think it's a critically important point and one of the lessons of this pandemic is that viruses don't respect borders. So when viruses circulating uncontrolled in India or in Brazil or in Turkey or France, that becomes a breeding ground potentially for the emergence of new variants that can threaten our progress and unnecessarily prolong the pandemic.

So what can we do in the United States? One is recognizing the fact that this can't just be about us, that, ultimately, that this is a worldwide race between vaccinations and variants, between injections and infections. And to that end, I think the most we can do would be to support -- one is providing the raw material necessary for countries like India that not only is in a terrible wave of COVID-19 but is also the worldwide leader in terms of the production of COVID- 19 vaccines.

[10:20:11]

And then I think the other thing we can do is really provide both moral and leadership just to ensure the fact that we don't do our progress in a vacuum.

SCIUTTO: Yes, okay. Vaccinations in this country, I'm a little confused as to where we're headed, right, because you see some negative indicators, right? I mean, we were talking about a study today seeing a drop in demand for vaccines, you know, even now you have fewer people getting their first shot than have gotten their second shot.

On the flip side, we saw that a greater percentage of Americans, and we've seen in the past, are willing to get vaccinated. I think the latest polling had it up to 77 percent. I mean, how close are we to herd immunity? Are we headed in that direction or are we at risk of not reaching it at all?

VARKEY: I think, Jim, we're headed in that direction. But whether we'll hit it or not really depends in our will -- within the general public. And I think where we're going is probably a transition from some of these mass vaccination events, you know, in terms of within large sports centers, arenas, et cetera, and really getting to this ground where people trust the person they're receiving the advice from. In other words, we know that most Americans, regardless of political affiliation, trust their doctor.

And, again, we have lots of data, including among my own physicians here at Emory, that more than 90 percent of physicians have elected to get vaccinated. So the more we can actually get the general public in front of people that they trust, that doesn't just address hesitancy and actually builds up confidence that these vaccines are truly safe and that they are highly effective, I think that that is what is going to increase our chance of truly attaining herd immunity and getting us to return to a new normal.

HARLOW: It's very, very rare, obviously, to have children contract COVID-19, let alone die from it, but it just happened this weekend in Minnesota with a first grader. And everyone's heart breaks for that family. And as parents, it scares us. And I just wonder what every parent needs to know, what we can do most effectively as the guidelines get looser and looser.

VARKEY: Yes. No, it's great question, Poppy. And, again, as an infectious diseases physician but also as a parent two of children, I think my reminder for parents is, again, let's make sure that as we get closer to the end game of this that we not let down our guards among people who are vulnerable. And we know that most children don't get severely ill from COVID-19. However, some will. And children certainly can get infected.

So I think my advice is just painting in broad stroke, is that, certainly, outdoor playgrounds are much safer than indoor spaces. Outdoor sports are relatively safe. But, again, we may want to be careful about avoiding some of those indoor get-togethers that occur after the game for snacks or drinks for the adults.

And then, again, just in terms of thinking about the kind of progress we made, just as a reminder, and this is much to the joy of my own 13- year-old daughter, the CDC has actually updated guidance on how summer camps can actually resume their operations safely.

So I think that looking to the science and making sure that we protect those until every person over the age of 16 gets vaccinated now that they're eligible and that safe and effective vaccines for 12 to 15- year-olds become available hopefully in the near future. I think that is how we can keep our kids safe.

SCIUTTO: I liked your subtle reference there, Dr. Varkey, to snacks or drinks for adults after youth sporting events, well played. We wish you the best of luck, always good to have you on.

VARKEY: Great. Thanks, guys.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead this hour, President Biden has been talking tough and cracking down on Russia with some new sanctions. Now we're learning he might soon meet face-to-face with President Putin.

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[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: A January 6th Capitol rioting suspect who was infamously photographed sitting at a desk in the office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is set to appear in court today.

HARLOW: So, apparently, his lawyers plan to argue for his release from jail partly based on a note that he left on the speaker's desk that they say federal prosecutors have misquoted. Let's get our Whitney Wild to help us understand this. What's with the note?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a lot of spelling errors. So let's go to the exact note so you can get a look at exactly what we're talking about here.

So, Richard Barnett sat at Nancy Pelosi's desk. He put his feet up on her desk. It is the photo that encapsulates just the real evasiveness of the day. And here, he left her a note. It says, hey, Nancy, bigo, bigo -- I'm not sure how to pronounce -- was here. And then there's this grouping of letters here which, to me, says B-I-O-T-D.

However, the Justice Department says that that word is actually B-I-T- C-H. Barnett's lawyers say that is not what it says. It says biatch.

Of course, they say that is not as -- it's not as cruel as the B word. It is, in some terms, is actually a form of endearment. I don't know. I don't use that word that often.

[10:30:00]

However, the Justice Department -- excuse me, his defense attorneys are using this as an argument to keep him out of jail. Here's what they say in a court filing. They say this is just another.