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COVID Declines across U.S.; India Cremating More than 600 a Day; Economy Soars in First Quarter; Possible Energy Attacks in U.S. Aired 9:30-10a ET.

Aired April 29, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:32:36]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: So you want to see some good news on the COVID pandemic? Maybe that makes your ears perk up. Take a look at this graphic. New, confirmed coronavirus infections in the U.S. are dropping, and significantly. Look at how far down from earlier in January. Over the past two weeks, more than half of states in this country have seen a decline.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hospitalizations also down significantly. A new CDC study suggests Pfizer and Moderna's vaccine reduces COVID-19 hospitalizations by 94 percent among older adults.

So let's bring in Dr. Leana Wen, former Baltimore health commissioner, also a contributing columnist for "The Washington Post."

Good morning to you.

They're good numbers. It's nice to have you on with some good numbers. There's still this real hesitancy for -- even among some younger folks under 35.

You actually note that you were sort of disappointed with Biden's remarks to the nation last night on the -- on the vaccine front. Why?

DR. LEANA WEN, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: Poppy, I thought that the remarks themselves were excellent when it came to COVID because it reminded us of the progress that's been made. I mean the fact that 220 million doses have already been distributed and given into arms, the fact that we now have more than 50 percent of adults in America who have gotten at least one dose, I think that's fantastic.

I just think that President Biden missed a real golden opportunity to counter vaccine hesitancy. I think what he could have done, imagine if he had said, only vaccinated people, fully vaccinated people can attend this joint session address.

And then when they come in, they show their proof of vaccination and then they can take off their masks. They can hug one another. They can sit next to each other. We can basically have pre-2019 life again. That would really send the strongest message that vaccines are safe, they're effective, they are our way out of this pandemic.

And what I really fear is that there is this pervasive narrative out there that somehow vaccines don't change very much for you. And so people are wondering, if they're so effective, why can't we do that much more than we did before vaccination? And I think that President Biden and all of our leaders need to send that message, that vaccination does, indeed, change everything.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it keeps you out of the hospital. I mean there's that.

You know, I asked Dr. Fauci about this yesterday, about, you know, why not more clear delineation of what can change now for those who are already vaccinated. His answer was that, you know, community spread is still too high in the view of the CDC in some places, but he does believe that as we see that graph continue to come down, that they're going to be more relaxations coming soon.

[09:35:10]

He mentioned in workplaces. He mentioned for travel. And I wonder how significant you think that is.

WEN: I definitely think it matters. I think, though, that the approach that Dr. Fauci and President Biden have been taking is a societal approach. They're saying there is the light at the end of the tunnel for all of us together. And when we can reduce the level of infection in the community, increase vaccination rates, that's when, at some point, hopefully soon, but at some point we can relax the restrictions.

I don't know if that works for many Americans. For many people it probably does work to say, yes, we're in this together. It's patriotic. We're doing this together.

But I think a lot of people are thinking kind of selfishly, thinking, what's in it for me? And they're not willing to wait until this elusive herd immunity. If we can tell those individuals who otherwise would not get vaccinated, if we say to them, the moment of freedom for you is when you get vaccinated, when you reach the two-week mark, these are people who otherwise might not be vaccinated. So let's give them that incentive.

HARLOW: I know you think that the CDC's cautionary approach here to lifting sort of some of the mask requirements, et cetera, for outside is too cautious and that it comes at a cost. I just -- I wonder if you think that that cost outweighs the benefit of being cautious.

WEN: The CDC last week released a report of breakthrough infections, which I think is really astounding. They found that out of 87 million people who are fully vaccinated, there were only 7,157 cases of people who got coronavirus, which is a rate of 0.008 percent. I mean that's really astounding. And I think we need to be telling people, if you want to, you can resume some elements, a lot of elements of pre- pandemic life. A lot of people still want to be cautious, and that's definitely OK.

We want people to proceed at their own pace. What I'm saying is that there are a lot of people who otherwise are not going to get vaccinated. So let's give them that additional incentive. And I think that particularly applies to young people who are going to go to bars, who are going to be socializing anyway. Let's say to them, get vaccinated and then do those things.

SCIUTTO: You know, though, I wonder if there's a reality out there. I mean I see it in restaurants, in, I don't know, little league games, right, baseball games, you know, Major League Baseball games that the country is moving beyond this already. I mean even in, say, northeast and west that had been more conservative in terms of their responses, I mean, in the south, I mean it feels like all bets have been off for a number of months.

I mean can -- doesn't -- doesn't the reality around us show that the country has already taken that message and kind of running with it and going back to living their lives?

WEN: Yes, it's a really good point. And I think that's why the CDC guidance needs to go even further because public health needs to meet people where they are. And when the public health guidance seems too disconnected with reality, people are going to stop paying attention. The agency, the CDC, then becomes irrelevant and public trust becomes eroded.

It's like the boy who cried wolf. The next time the CDC comes out and says there is impending doom, people are just going to say, yes, you've said that before. It didn't happen and so I'm not going to listen to you again. And so I really think the CDC needs to be much more up front about letting people know, don't do this until you're vaccinated. Once you're vaccinated, you can choose to do it.

HARLOW: Such a good -- such a good point.

Dr. Wen, thank you, as always.

WEN: Thank you.

HARLOW: Let's turn now to the devastating COVID surge across India. It is so tragic that more than 600 bodies are being cremated per day there. Some streets lined with these makeshift crematoriums.

Yesterday, another record, 3,645 new deaths from COVID in India.

Our Sam Kiley is in New Delhi.

Sam, what is it like to actually be on the ground seeing this firsthand with these families?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, your last guest was discussing the whole issue of the efficacy or otherwise of vaccines. This is what not getting vaccinated looks like. India is a net exporter of vaccines. This is one of several crematoria in the city. This whole area here in

this quadrangel (ph), if you like, has about 40 pyres burning. The dead here have to queue for their last rights. And I'm not joking. Their families or friends who bring them here have to take a ticket at the office and then join a queue for burning.

There's about 150 that are being cremated through the course of the day. I've been here most of the course of the day. They started in an adjacent building that was covered. That is the central area where they have been traditionally conducting cremations. And then moved into here when they ran out of space on that side of the wall.

[09:40:04]

And now they've moved back because the bodies keep coming.

One member of the -- one victim of COVID is still lying on a stretcher over there waiting their turn, and now they have the final indignity of a storm brewing. A storm that -- of the sort that might well engulf Narendra Modi, the prime minister here, Poppy, who's been accused of taking his eye off the ball in a very serious way, assuming that they had herd immunity and inoculating only about just over 1 percent of Indians, Poppy.

HARLOW: Well, he has. I mean his party has chosen to carry on having these big rallies, some with millions of people because of the upcoming election, even knowing how few people were vaccinated. It's a tragedy, as you say, that they're the biggest maker of vaccine in the world and this is what's happening.

Sam Kiley, we appreciate you being there.

Sam -- Sam, can --

KILEY: Yes.

HARLOW: Sam, we have a little more time. Can you just talk about the political failure here and how the people on the ground feel? Do they feel as though they've been abandoned by their leadership?

KILEY: Yes, absolutely. I mean I spoke to one gentleman earlier on today. Indeed, he was lighting that pyre there where he took his friend for his last rites, organized the whole cremation because every other member of the deceased's family, it was a man, was already themselves suffering catastrophically, he said, from COVID. There was nobody to cope with the body.

Indeed, when he was talking, another gentleman turned up. He was a relative who'd already tested positive and looked very ill with the disease. And the reason it has run out of control here, as the critics of Mr. Modi would say, is that he is focused on political campaigning, firstly.

Secondly, he decided -- he pretty much announced a few months ago that India had somehow broken the back of the pandemic, that India had beaten the pandemic, even though the vaccination campaign was barely in its infancy.

And as a consequence, he's not only allowed political campaigning, but the Kumbh Mela, a Hindu festival, when literally millions of people, (INAUDIBLE), worship at the banks of the River Ganges itself, a deity in their tradition, all -- or none of whom are socially isolated, all of whom have been encouraged to revel in this Hindu nationalism of the BJP, the ruling party here, including the mass rallies they've been having. And this, I'm afraid, is the consequence.

HARLOW: Sam, there is a big debate going on in this country right now about whether the Biden administration should get behind the request that India made to the World Trade Organization six months ago to share the IP, basically the recipe for vaccine from companies like Pfizer and Moderna with other countries to create more vaccine. The Biden administration has not yet supported that. Bill Gates said it's not a good idea to do that. Others say it's necessary.

Is that something that would help in India? Do the people of India want that?

KILEY: Poppy, I didn't quite catch a lot of that question because the system here is pretty ropey, as you can imagine. But I think you were asking me, what is the issue and what is the attitude to the sharing, the international sharing and distribution of viruses.

HARLOW: Yes.

KILEY: So in that context, there is great anger in this country that it is a net exporter of vaccines, particularly of the AstraZeneca strain, but of others, too. They've also developed their own. But the country is blamed -- or the government is blame for prioritizing export and the good will that that would generate around the world over its critics say the health of its own people.

On top of that, you have massive disparities of rich and poor in this country. So it hasn't taken a great deal, frankly, to overwhelm an already -- a nearly overwhelmed public health system.

And then a third aspect, which is something the Indians find really incomprehensible, is why it was the United States had embargoed the export of some of the crucial ingredients for the construction, for the building of vaccines in this country back in America.

Now that -- they're grateful that that has been lifted, but there is a strong sense -- also an understanding that Indians should have prioritized Indian population, just as the United Kingdom or the United States have prioritized their own population. The vaccination campaigns are seen as world campaigns.

You do your responsibility, your own population first and then everybody else. And that's definitely not how it's been perceived here. It's been perceived, and we haven't got a response at all from the government on this, but we -- the regular blame placed at the feet of the government is that they were seeking international popularity at the expense of their own population.

[09:45:02]

SCIUTTO: Sam, Jim Sciutto here. And I know that the audio can be tough given where you are. Do doctors there blame particular new, more transmissible variants for the severity of the outbreak? Are they tracking that now?

KILEY: Jim, they are trying to work out. They believe -- my understanding is there may be two Indian variants. There isn't yet, so far as I understand it, sufficient evidence to show one way or the other, whether it's more -- the variants are more virulent, both in terms of transmission or in terms of death.

And one of the reasons that's difficult to assess is that people are dying here through lack of oxygen. They're simply asphyxiating. They're not being kept alive through that critical period when their health crashes and their oxygen rates crash, they pass away rather than get the help that they need. That's why you're seeing such a big international effort now to get oxygen into India.

Jim.

HARLOW: Sam, thank you for all of that on the ground. Really, it's so important to have you there.

We'll be right back.

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[09:50:30]

HARLOW: Big, economic news this morning. The economy is growing at gang busters right now, especially in the first few months of the year.

SCIUTTO: Yes, that's right, nearly 6.5 percent annual rate in the first quarter.

CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us now.

And I wonder, so some of this is picking up lost ground from the slowdown during the pandemic.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

SCIUTTO: But there's a lot of pent up demand out there. People want to fly again.

ROMANS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: They want to hop on cruise ships again. They want to buy stuff.

I mean do economists think it's going to continue going up like this?

ROMANS: Oh, yes. Yes. There -- this is a great American comeback. And most economist this is morning are telling me the second quarter will even be better --

SCIUTTO: Wow.

ROMANS: Because when we look at those first quarter numbers, a lot of that activity was toward the end of the quarter. It's because of shots in arms and checks in the bank and businesses reopening and a lot of that happened late in the quarter. So you saw 6.4 percent annualized growth.

So you can see those two red bars there, that's the coronavirus recession. And this is the bounce back that we're seeing here.

But let me put it even in kind of a bigger, broader terms in totality here. You've got tech earning that have been great, a housing market that is very strong. You have stocks near record highs and a Fed that has said it's going to stay on the sidelines, not worried about inflation. So that red bar you see there, which is last year's terrible year, you could see 7 percent economic growth for the entire year this year. That would be the best year since the Reagan administration.

Guys, it's going well. But the Biden team is trying to tell you is, it's not going well for everyone. And this is exactly the moment to fix the inequalities in an economy and not just let it roar back and lift only the, you know, the yachts and not all boats.

HARLOW: That's exactly right. What an image, the yachts, not all the boats.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Thanks, Romans.

We'll be right back.

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[09:56:33]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

So federal authorities are now investigating at least two possible direct energy attacks, that's what they're called, on U.S. soil. And sources tell CNN one of those incidents happened near the White House last year.

SCIUTTO: They appear to be similar to mysterious invisible attacks that led to debilitating symptoms for dozens of U.S. personnel abroad, including in Cuba.

CNN intelligence reporter Katie Bo Williams has been following this story.

Katie, you know, directed energy weapons sounds like something out of sci-fi, but they're here, they're dangerous. We've seen them elsewhere before overseas. Now on U.S. soil? What do we know? KATIE BO WILLIAMS, CNN INTELLIGENCE REPORTER: Yes. So what we've been

able to learn is that there was a National Security Council official who was walking basically on White House grounds during the course of his, you know, during the course of his job and began experiencing some of the same sort of mysterious constellation of symptoms that we had seen from -- in U.S. diplomats and in intelligence officials who had been struck by this same sort of mysterious ailment in Cuba and Moscow and other places.

What makes this tricky is that intelligence officials still don't really understand what's going on here, or even if it is actually a directed energy attack, as opposed to some other sort of naturally occurring phenomenon that we don't really understand yet.

There's a lot of sort of uncertainty, not just about what is actually happening, but if it is an attack, who is doing it. The best guess that officials have right now is that it is probably either Russia or possibly China, one of these sort of sophisticated, larger nation state adversaries that the United States is really worried about right now.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But there are a lot of unanswered questions here still.

SCIUTTO: Well, it would be a significant escalation to use it on U.S. soil on the White House grounds as well.

Katie Bo Williams, good to have you following the story.

WILLIAMS: (INAUDIBLE).

SCIUTTO: In just minutes, President Biden expected to hit the road in promote his legislative agenda. This after his first speech to Congress. We'll bring you details.

Stay with us.

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