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Biden Hits the Road to Sell Ambitious Economic Agenda; Trump on FBI Raid of Giuliani, It's Like so Unfair; Federal Prosecutors Indict Three Men in Death of Ahmaud Arbery. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 29, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: You don't want to miss it. Thanks for joining us in Inside Politics today. We'll see you back here this time tomorrow.

Don't go anywhere, a busy news day. Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now. Have a good day.

ANA CABRERA, CNN NEWSROOM: Hello, and thanks for joining me, I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

The president is hitting the road right now to pitch his vision, his, ambitious plans including a hefty price tag to the American public. Soon, we could hear from the president who is in Georgia this hour, a state that's been crucial, voting in two Democratic senators, just enough to give Democrats a slight majority in the senate, opening Biden's path to push through his agenda.

Now, while in the Peach State, President Biden, we know, will meet with former President Jimmy Carter, at least the fourth time he's spoken with one of his presidential or vice presidential predecessors this month. This is a stark contrast to how we know Trump operated in near isolation from the presidents' club.

Also in Georgia, new charges in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery. The three men accused of chasing the 25-year-old black man while he was out for a jog before killing him have now been hit with federal hate crime charges. We'll bring you the latest on that case.

Plus, one day after the feds raided Rudy Giuliani's Manhattan apartment and his house, as well as his office, former President Trump and President Biden have weighed in now, we'll have all that just ahead.

But first to the White House and CNN's Phil Mattingly. Phil, just tell us about this historic meeting between the Bidens and the Carters and what the president hopes to accomplish in Georgia today.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly a different atmosphere when it comes to the last president to this president and the presidents' club. The president has spoken with President George W. Bush, he's talked fairly regularly, I'm told, with former President Barack Obama and now going to visit President Carter and his wife.

The White House saying, don't read too much into this, they are in the area and the couples have a close friendship over years. In fact, my intrepid colleague, Betsy Klein, noted that President Biden was the first sitting senator to actually endorse Jimmy Carter's kind of renegade campaign when he ran for president. So they've been close for a long time, were close allies when President Carter was in office, and Joe Biden was the senator as well. They've maintained that relationship throughout the course of the last several decades.

So they will be checking in, saying, hello. we'll see if we see them at any point during this visit. President Carter did not come to the inauguration due to concerns about his age and the coronavirus pandemic. He has been vaccinated up to this point so we'll kind of see if anything comes out of that meeting.

And I think when you look broadly overall at what the president is doing today in Georgia, obviously, this is the first stop in what's expected to be about ten days of extensive travel, not just from the president, top administration officials, top cabinet officials, as well to sell what he laid out in that primetime address, his $1.8 trillion proposal, to really reshape education and the social safety net for families in this country.

It is ambitious. There's no question about it. But there's also a recognition inside the White House that they are going to need to sell this, and they're going to need to sell this to the public.

If you look back to the coronavirus relief plan, up to this point, the president's cornerstone legislative achievement, part of the reason that that moved through, and moved through rather easily, with Democrats in the House and the Senate, is because the public support for it remained high throughout the course of the legislative process.

This is going to be a heavier lift. White House officials acknowledge that. There will be months of negotiations, still trying to see if there are Republicans that will come on board and at least one of the pieces of this, but they recognize when you're talking about tax policy, energy policy, health care policy, all of those in isolation are a thicket. They are going to need not just help on Capitol Hill, they are going to need help from the public to get this passed. And today will mark the president's first opportunity to make that pitch, Ana.

CABRERA: And you will bring us the latest when we hear -- if we hear from President Biden today. Thank you, Phil Mattingly, at the White House.

For more on where the Biden agenda goes from here, let's bring in CNN Political Commentator and former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent, as well as CNN Senior Political Analyst Nia-Malika Henderson. Always good to have both of you with me. Congressman, Biden seems to be owning the fact that his plans are big, they are bold and very expensive. But he is saying the size of investment is what is needed, just to compete, especially with China. Does that help bring Republicans onboard while also deflecting their claims that he's soft on China?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not so sure about that, Ana. Look, I think to a certain extent, the president is misreading his mandate. There are a lot of people who voted for Joe Biden who simply wanted him to stabilize the government, normalize things, turn the temperature down, which he's done, address the COVID crisis. I don't think they were anticipating he was going to go this big, you know, the $6 trillion in new spending.

So I think this is -- I think he's biting off quite a bit. And there's a great deal of risk associated with this. I don't believe that all these programs are as popular as we're being told right now. There is some sticker shock here and I think the president has to deal with that.

But overall though, I think he's been good on the COVID issue and he has certainly -- he's not in our face 24/7, like his predecessor is.

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So I think that's been to his advantage.

CABRERA: And, Nia, to that point Congressman Dent just made, even some Democrats, like Senator Manchin, are hesitant to get on board because of the price tag. Potential swing Republicans share similar concerns, we know. Does Biden have any leverage or should Democrats be concerned that the price tag, $6 trillion all together, if you include the COVID relief that already passed, might concern not just lawmakers but voters who don't want to saddle future generations with mountains of debt?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the leverage is what Americans want in what they're experiencing. If you look at the data now, this plan, the infrastructure plan, 60 percent of Americans think it's a good idea, including 20 percent of Republicans and something like 65 percent of independents. So in that way, Biden has, in many ways, already convinced the public that at least when you think about roads and bridges, that this is a good idea to put this money in there.

I think the second part of it, the idea of the sort of human infrastructure, that is probably going to be a heavier lift. You're going to find people balking at the idea that infrastructure should include paying for community college, should include helping people pay for day care, which as many people know is incredibly expensive and a burden on many families. So he is going to have to make a very complicated argument and meet Americans where they live.

He was excellent, I think, at doing that with COVID. People were experiencing terrible circumstances, economically, as well as health care as well, and so he was successful at that. This is going to be something different. He's got to not only argue that these items, sort of social safety net, is included in infrastructure, but also that the government should behave in a different way, right?

The era of big government is now, essentially, kind of turning Bill Clinton's idea about the government on its head. So that, of course, I think, is a heavy lift for him. And so we'll see if he's able to cobble together enough Democrats, let alone Republicans, he's going to likely have some problems in his own party, including Joe Manchin, but probably some other Democrats as well.

CABRERA: Yes. We've seen Kyrsten Sinema, another moderate Democrat, who's expressed some concerns in the past to some of his more progressive plans.

As far as the economic cell and his, you know, plan to pay for all of this, he's talking about raising taxes on the wealthy, saying it's about making sure there is a fair playing field and that they should be paying their own price, he took aim at the long standing GOP economic philosophy. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: My fellow Americans, trickle down, trickledown economics has never worked, and it's time to grow the economy from the bottom and the middle out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Congressman Dent, he's basically calling out some 40 years of Republican orthodoxy. What's your reaction?

DENT: My reaction is that you can make a strong case beginning in the 1980s during President Reagan was pretty successful. We saw sustained, prolonged periods of strong growth in the '80s and in the '90s with a mild recession in '91 and '92.

So you can make a case that we saw real growth in our economy. And I think that -- getting into this debate over supply side economics versus (INAUDIBLE) economics is probably not in the president's interest. I think that the president is wrong on that point that we've seen very good growth through supply side economics over the last few decades.

CABRERA: Maybe short-term. I don't think it was just a political tag line we heard. We are seeing record levels of inequality right now. Late last year, there was also the study out of the London School of Economics, which looked at 50 years of trickledown policies in a lot of countries, 18 countries, including some of the wealthiest, they found tax cuts for the wealthy did little to promote growth or jobs long-term. Does the GOP need to adapt on this issue?

DENT: Yes, of course, it does. I think the GOP does have to find ways to build the middle class. And I think one area where the Republicans would be smart to work with the Biden administration is on the child tax credit expansion. Republicans have supported that in the past. And now Joe Biden has expanded it, and I think they might be smart to try to work to make that permanent. That would be something that would be very beneficial to middle class taxpayers, raising taxes on the wealthiest.

I know they're talking about taking it from 37 to 39.6 percent. But we should also remember, that's going to be tax on many small businesses that are structured with chapter S corporations, they've the individual rates. They're going to pay higher rates too.

CABRERA: Nia, in the GOP rebuttal last night, Senator Tim Scott, he addressed the discourse about racism in America, and this morning, the vice president actually agreed with something he said. Let's watch.

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SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): People are making money and gaining power by pretending we haven't made any progress at all by doubling down on the divisions we've worked so hard to heal.

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You know this stuff is wrong. Hear me clearly. America is not a racist country.

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't think America is a racist country but we also do have to speak truth about the history of racism in our country and its existence today. And I applaud the president for always having the ability and the courage, frankly, to speak the truth about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Nia, were you at all surprised by the way the vice president answered and also what we heard from the congressman?

HENDERSON: No, not --

CABRERA: And from the senator, excuse me.

HENDERSON: No, not surprising. I mean, it's essentially Republican Party orthodoxy to downplay racism, and for Kamala Harris, I think, answering fairly deftly there, essentially saying there are problems that exist, African-Americans, people of color are treated differently.

And, listen, Tim Scott made that argument himself, right? He himself said that he's been stopped by police officers, and I don't believe he was stopped by those police officers because, you know, his name is Tim Scott, or that he has a bald head. I mean, he was making the argument that there is some racism at play in those police stops.

So, you know, if you're Kamala Harris, I don't think you want to be in the position as vice president of the country to say that America is a racist country but you do want to point out that, you know, these are systems in place where there is racial disparities and racial treatment in a disparate racial treatment based on people's skin color. And so when you have a president, I think, that one of the few presidents we've had that really has talked about systemic racism and also sees government in a role to play in easing the sort of disparities that result from systemic racism. And that's part of what this big infrastructure plan is designed to address.

CABRERA: Nia-Malika Henderson and former Congressman Charlie Dent, good to have both of you here, thank you.

Former President Trump today slamming the FBI raid of his friend and personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, saying it's unfair to raid the home of a great patriot. As President Biden says, he knew nothing about this. We'll discuss.

Plus, the Justice Department stepping in to bring hate crime charges against three white men, including a father and son, who chased and then shot and killed a black man who was jogging in a Georgia neighborhood.

And a horrific explosion of the coronavirus in India, sparking warnings for Americans to flee that country as crematoriums are struggling to keep up with the bodies. CNN is there.

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CABRERA: We are now hearing from former President Trump after federal investigators raided the New York City home and office of his former personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani.

Now, this all goes back years, to Giuliani's activities in Ukraine, and questions around whether he conducted illegal lobbying for Ukrainian officials while he pursued an investigation linked to Trump's then primary political rival, President Joe Biden. Trump telling Fox Business today, quote, it's like so unfair, Rudy is a patriot who loves this country and I don't know what they're looking for or what they're doing, it's a very, very unfair situation.

President Biden saying today he was not aware of this raid beforehand.

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BIDEN: I give you my word, I was not. I made a pledge, I would not interfere in any way, order or try to stop any investigation the Justice Department had under way. I learned about that last night when the rest of the world learned about it, my word. I had no idea this was underway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Olivia Nuzzi joins us now, she's a Washington Correspondent for New York Magazine and has interviewed Giuliani countless times. Olivia, this investigation, we know, is more than two years in the making. How much trouble could Giuliani be in? OLIVIA NUZZI, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Well, quite a lot. It's an extraordinary step for an attorney to have his home raided and no less than attorney who used to work or works for a former president of the United States.

And it's interesting, I was going back to my transcripts with some of my conversations with Giuliani. And he really was bitter and really was offended and almost deeply hurt when he was talking about this investigation, when it was just in its early stages, or when we were just getting reporting about it, about two years ago.

He seemed to really take it personally that these people who he considered to be kind of his guys, his people, law enforcement in New York, that they would turn on him. And it seemed to really be disturbing to him, and it contributed to this kind of insular, increasingly paranoid world view that he had. But it didn't seem to change his behavior much. If anything, he just got more outrageous, behaved more like a madman in public in service of Donald Trump as that investigation continued to go on.

And in some ways, watching it from the outside, it seemed almost like he was tempting investigators to continue to look into him and to investigate him further and to potentially, you know, take some kind of action against him.

CABRERA: And so they did. They went in, they searched his properties, they took some of his electronic communications, we've learned, including a computer. And you have talked about how -- this is a man who was in constant communication via text on his iPad. What all could investigators have to be sifting through now?

NUZZI: Well, quite a lot. By my count, he had at least three cell phones. He told me that he was trying to get down to two cell phones, but he certainly had three.

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He also had an iPad that he would communicate from. And he was kind of in constant communication with seemingly anybody and everybody. So that meant political operatives, people he was in business with, people who were helping him, quote, investigate Hunter Biden and also reporters and anybody else, any troll who happened to get his number, he would communicate with.

And he was doing that over iMessage. He was also using encrypted apps Signal and WhatsApp. And he would send emails from an iCloud account in the middle of the night sometimes, at least in my experience. And so I imagine that they have quite a lot to sift through.

And one of the funny things about Giuliani being kind of just very freewheeling with how he would communicate digitally was always, to me anyway, that he was an informal cyber security adviser to the former president.

Now, this is a man who was 75 years old at the time and would walk around holding these multiple cell phones and they would be banging into each other, he'd be activating Siri by mistake, and sighing, he told me she never understands me, talking about Siri. So I imagine they've got quite a lot to sift through.

And, you know, the one thing I'll say though about his communications, at least in my experience, and from what has been reported about accidental voice message -- voice recordings that he's left for reporters, accidental voice mails, he does often seem to say in private what he's also said in public on Fox News or on right-wing radio. So maybe he at least has that going for him.

CABRERA: Olivia Nuzzi, your insights are so intriguing. Thank you for joining us and sharing with us?

NUZZI: Are they? Thank you.

CABRERA: Indeed, thank you.

Three white men in Georgia are now facing federal hate crime charges in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery. Why the Justice Department is stepping in now.

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CABRERA: Federal prosecutors have indicted three men accused of killing Ahmaud Arbery. Remember this case? So, Arbery was a 25-year- old black man out jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, last February when prosecutors say three white men followed him in their trucks, harassing him and ultimately killing him.

Gregory and Trave McMichael, as well as William Bryan, are now charged with federal hate crimes and attempted kidnapping. All three are already in jail awaiting a state murder trial.

And Amara Walker is following this for us in Atlanta. Amara, tell us more about these indictments.

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Ana. Yes, so three men all of whom are white, as you there, have been charged with federal hate crimes and attempted kidnapping for their involvement in this deadly confrontation with Ahmaud Arbrey, as you said, as he was jogging in a neighborhood in Southeast George last year, February of 2020.

So the defendant, so a 35-year-old Travis McMichael, he's accused of shooting and ultimately killing Arbery with his shotgun, 65-year-old Gregory McMichael, his father, and he's a former police officer, and 51-year-old William Bryan, who allegedly joined in on that pursuit and took video of what happened. And that eventually became a viral video and really sparked widespread outrage over this incident.

Now, in this indictment, federal prosecutors say that Arbery was targeted because of his race and his color and that these men interfered with his right to use a public street. When you look at the indictment, it's an eight-page indictment and it kind of details what happened on that day, February of 2020. And it says the McMichaels, quote, armed themselves with firearms, got

into a truck and chased Arbery through the public streets of the neighborhood, we do have a full screen of that, while yelling at Arbery using their truck to cut off his route and threatening him with firearms. Bryan also used his truck to interfere in his own way, according to prosecutors as well.

So in that 36-second video that went viral, it ends with gunshots, a bloodstained shirt on Arbery and him eventually falling over and dying.

Now, these three man, actually the McMichaels, have said that they were just making citizen's arrest because they believe that he may have been involved at some burglaries in the neighborhood.

Ana, before I go, I do want to mention, we did talk to Wanda Cooper- Jones, who is the mother of Arbery. And she said, look, she welcomes these federal indictments, that it's a huge step that we're talking about federal hate crime charges and that this is one step closer to justice.

Lastly, Travis McMichael's attorney saying that they're deeply disappointed that the Justice Department, quote, butt the false narrative that the media and state prosecutors have promulgated. Ana?

CABRERA: Amara Walker in Atlanta, thank you for that reporting.

Let's bring in CNN Legal Analyst and formal federal prosecutor Jennifer Rogers, and CNN Law Enforcement Analyst and former Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey.

Commissioner, what is your reaction to these new federal hate crime charges?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think they're long overdue. I mean, let's face it, I know the Trump administration, I think DOJ was pretty missing in action. This is something that should have taken place last year but I'm glad it's happening now. Clearly, that was a shooting that never should have taken place, that man should be alive today.

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