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Former Trump Attorney, Michael Cohen, Discusses Raid on Giuliani's NY Apartment, Trump's Reaction, What It Means for Trump; India Suffers Worst Day of Pandemic with Record Cases and Deaths; 3 Deputies in Fatal Shooting of Andrew Brown Jr Remain on Administrative Leave. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 29, 2021 - 14:30   ET




ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And we are back with Michael Cohen, the former personal attorney for President Trump. He's also the author of the book, "Disloyal" and the host of the "Mea Culpa" podcast.

So, Michael, your former boss, Donald Trump, is speaking out about this raid of Rudy Giuliani's apartment. Here's what he had to say this morning.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): Rudy Giuliani is a great patriot. He does these things -- he just loves this country. And they raid his apartment?

It's like, so unfair and such a double -- it's like a double standard like I don't think anybody's ever seen before.

It's very, very unfair. Rudy is a patriot who loves this country. And I don't know what they're looking for, what they're doing.


CAMEROTA: So, Michael, you know Donald Trump so well. That's what he's saying publicly. What do you think he's saying behind the scenes?

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER PERSONAL ATTORNEY TO DONALD TRUMP & AUTHOR & "MEA CULPA" PODCAST HOST: Yes, oh boy. You know, if he understood Yiddish, I would say Rudy's (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE). He's got some real trouble coming down the pike, I can assure you on that one.

But it's interesting how Donald turns around and says that nobody has ever seen anything like this before.

Hello, Donald. You remember me? The guy whose name that you forgot while you were sitting at the table when you were complaining that they raided one of your lawyer's offices and home?

Well, guess what? They did it to him again. And guess what? There's going to be a ton of stuff. I'm certain of it.

There's going to be a ton of documentation. And there's going to be a bunch of tweets and a bunch of texts and a bunch of god knows what else that they ended up obtaining from these devices.

And that, hopefully, we, as the, you know, as the members of the, you know, of the country, we will have a chance to see them.

I'm certain that they're there. And rest assured, Donald is not happy about this.

CAMEROTA: And do you think that Donald Trump is scared today?

COHEN: Oh, I know so. I mean, he was afraid even when they raided my home and my law office. Because Donald Trump cares about only one person, and I say it all the time. He cares about only himself.

So, he doesn't care that they raided Rudy's home. He doesn't care that they raided Rudy law office. What is it going to do to affect me, is all that he's thinking right now.

What did stupid Rudy do? What did stupid Rudy write? What sort of text messages or emails? What sort of stupid things was Rudy up to that's now going to implicate me?

Because Donald knows he has enough trouble right now between Tish James and the attorney general's office, as well as Cy Vance and the district attorney's office here in New York.

Forgetting about Georgia, forgetting about D.C. with the pick, forgetting about all these other litigations. How about the dozens or so from women with assault cases?

He knows that he has all sorts of legal issues. He didn't need more. That's one thing I can say assure you. He definitely didn't need more.

And Rudy is going to be a treasure trove. In all fairness, Merrick Garland is like Santa Claus, and Rudy's devices are going to be like the presents that are waiting for you on Christmas day.


CAMEROTA: I want to ask you -- I want to ask you about that, about the Merrick Garland connection. Because Andrew Giuliani has come out publicly and railed against this raid and said it's all a political witch hunt, all motivated by politics.

What's your response to him?


COHEN: Well, actually, I think what Andrew said is that it's political thuggery, which I didn't see Andrew coming out and saying anything when it happened to me. Nor did I see Rudy say anything when it happened to me. What is interesting is that the last time I saw Andrew, he was giving

a golf lesson on one of Trump's properties. Now, all of a sudden, he, too, has become a spokesperson.

I mean, it's almost comical that they put people in these positions. I understand Andrew's contemplating on running for governor. It's

another joke.

And what do I think? I think Rudy knows that he has trouble. I think Donald understands that Rudy will provide whatever information that he has to the SDNY.

Because Rudy has no interest in going to prison and spending the golden years of his life behind bars. That, I'm certain of.

CAMEROTA: You know, Michael, I also want to ask you, because I haven't talked to you since then. I want to acknowledge that you did predict what would happen if Donald Trump lost the election.

And you told Congress -- I mean, a congressional committee that he would not leave peacefully.

So I just want to remind everybody what you said back on February 27, 2019.


COHEN: Given my experience working for Mr. Trump, I fear that if he loses the election in 2020, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power.


CAMEROTA: And sadly, that came to pass with the insurrection on January 6th. I mean, that's -- you know, you saw it coming.

And so because you know this so well, do you think that President Trump has any intention of running for office again at this point?

COHEN: So, the answer to that is no. He's not going to be running again. It's all a grift.

It's all so that he can continue to raise money off the backs of the ignorant who believe him and that continue, to this day, to listen to this racist, sexist, misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic, Islamophobic, anti-Semite.

That's the saddest part. And there were 74 million people that voted for him. The question becomes, why? Why? He is the most flawed human being, right?

And it's sad. It really is sad that people are still thinking that he could possibly run, that he would be the leader today if, in fact, the Republicans had to pick and choose somebody. I truly don't understand it. But that's not the only thing I predicted. I also told Jim Jordan or

Mark Meadows or one of these other clowns that were sitting there drilling me during that day, I said, listen, I know the playbook and I know the plays that you're trying to run on me right now because I wrote the playbook, so what are you doing?

I know that Donald Trump doesn't care about anyone or anything other than himself, and that he will throw anyone and everyone under the bus if and when the time comes.

I warned Rudy on it. And warned others.

And look at all of the people, whether it's Matt Gaetz or any of these other jokers that just sit there and they keep following Donald Trump, thinking -- and this is the big problem when you are associated or in Trump's orbit.

You actually, for that moment, believe that you're invincible. You sort of take on Trump's persona and think that you're Teflon Don.

Well, guess what? You're not. And it's being shown again and again and again.

CAMEROTA: I mean, look, we're talking to you, you're on house arrest because of your relationship and what the -- the choices you made for Donald Trump.

And so what now, today, would you change?

COHEN: Oh, my god. What would I change? I would have certainly rejected the offer going back in 2007 to come work for him. I should have listened to my wife and my children, who had begged me, you know, year after year after year to leave.

I didn't need to work for him. I was doing very well without working for Trump. And why I allowed my moral compass to take a dumpster dive real south working for him? I don't know.

Maybe I was missing something in my life. There was a lot of excitement going on between "The Apprentice," Miss Universe. I don't know.

I stay up many, many nights thinking about how I would do things differently if I had a time machine.

But rest assured, home confinement, being locked up for 22 hours a day, even though it's in your own home, it's certainly a lot better than being in Otisville, that I promise you, but it's not easy.

You know, days that the weather' inclement, I don't even go out. So you're in 24 hours a day. And that's why I really created "Mea Culpa," the podcast, and that's why I'm working on a second book, and trying to keep myself busy.

But it's very tough, I have to be honest with you. It's not easy. CAMEROTA: Well, Michael Cohen, we appreciate your insight into all

this. You, of anyone else in the country, has a lot of insight into this situation.

So thank you so much for all the time today.

COHEN: You're very welcome. Good to see you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: You, too, Michael.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Listen, really no better person to talk with today after that news about Rudy Giuliani.


And over the last, what, 24 hours, there have been some who know Giuliani well who have said there's no way that he is going to turn on President Trump.

But the man, the only other personal attorney who's been in this space, says, he will turn on him in a heartbeat.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Michael says something very different. And he has a perspective from which he knows.

BLACKWELL: All right.

Listen, we've got breaking news in the death of Andrew Brown. A decision has been made about some of the officers involved in the fatal police shooting there in North Carolina. Some major shifts. We'll take you there, live, next.


CAMEROTA: The COVID crisis across India is breaking records, becoming one of the world's worst outbreaks. The government is scrambling to respond to new case counts and hospitals there are overwhelmed and nearly out of oxygen.

BLACKWELL: More than 200,000 people in India have died of coronavirus. And 3,300, close to it, died just yesterday.


Crematoriums are trying to keep up with the lines of people -- look at this. They're trying to keep up with the lines of people waiting to cremate their lost friends and relatives.

Sam Kiley, CNN senior international correspondent, is in New Delhi.

Sam, you spent a day at a crematorium there. And it -- unbelievable what we're seeing coming out of India. Describe for us what it's like there and what you have seen.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, we started the morning at the crematorium. And I think you probably got the images up in front of you now.

The numbers that were anticipated that would be cremated that day were going to be about 150. I don't know for sure, but by the time we had finished there at about 10:00 or 11:00 p.m. local time, they had definitely burned, in my estimate or guesstimate, considerably more than that.

It was a really extraordinary scenes of great quiet on the part of the people working there, trying to treat every single individual with the dignity that they deserved as they were put through the last rites.

But they did have to suffer the indignity, the dead had to queue, Victor. They had to -- or their attendants would have to go and get a slip of paper like you do -- a ticket like going to a bank or seeing a doctor.

And then wait their turn until they were taken outside to one of the pyres and immolated. And that was a very slow process, taking many, many hours in a lot of cases.

The numbers of people being burned are going up so fast that the Delhi mayor has appealed for extra wood to be supplied to the crematorium.

And the area's obviously very, very thick with smoke around them as all of these bodies are being burnt.

They've extended the area of the crematorium into an area next door, a bit of waste ground about the size -- a bit bigger than a baseball pitch where -- rather a basketball pitch where they were burning, on average, at peak, about 50 people.

And then once that was full, they would move back into the official location where they traditionally would burn the pyres and burn there again.

So it was a relentless process. And really, symbolically, a catastrophic -- genuinely tragic example of the inability of a country that has a space program, that has warships such as aircraft carriers at sea.

But with these massive inequalities between the rich and the poor in this country, the public sector, health service and the private sector health service, the entire health structures have been completely overwhelmed by this pandemic -- Victor, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: I have a question for you, Sam.

You know, here in the U.S., so many people died alone. They died alone in their hospital rooms. And in that way, we were sort of shielded from the horror of it, because our cameras didn't capture it.

But your cameras are capturing the hellscape of all of the death. And I mean, I can just imagine the smell, the feeling that the -- the burning of the eyes. It's just -- I mean, it's nightmarish.

And so, you know, how are the crematoriums keeping up with this? KILEY: They're looking pretty stunned, pretty shocked. Very few of

them had any time at all to talk with us.

And indeed, we were very circumspect about getting in the way of their work because this, for them, is work. It isn't a media event.

It is a -- an event in which people are saying farewell to their loved ones. If they are able to get into the crematorium at all.

I spoke to one individual who was burying -- or rather burning a friend because his family had been unable to attend. This is what he told me.


KILEY: So, who are you saying good-bye to here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, he's my friend. He was my childhood friend, school friend, but I just learned that he was in the hospital so I reached the hospital and he is no more now.

KILEY: Why is his family not here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Family is also in the COVID, actually. His wife is outside there. He is also coronavirus positive. The children are also corona positive. Brother also, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, positive.


KILEY: So clearly, there are large numbers of people who are simply being burned after passing away in their own homes, bypassing the health system.

And that may indicate why the numbers of dead are probably almost certainly indeed drastically underestimated -- Alisyn, Victor?

BLACKWELL: Resources are on the way from around the world but just not getting there quickly enough.

Sam Kiley, for us in New Delhi, thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.

Again, I want to say that Sam gave us a glimpse into something that no other network has, to be able to get that close and see the horror up close is remarkable.

So our thanks to Sam for that.



CAMEROTA: Up next, we will go live to Elizabeth City, North Carolina, where a decision just being made about some of the deputies that are involved in the death of Andrew Brown Jr. Stay with us for that.


BLACKWELL: Breaking news now on the fatal shooting in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, by local sheriff deputies. We just learned a decision has been made regarding some of the deputies involved in the killing of Andrew Brown Jr.

Brian Todd is there on the scene for us.

Brian, what you have learned?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Victor, the sheriff of Pasquotank County, Tommy Wooten, giving us some significant news this afternoon. He has released the names of the seven deputies on scene, here behind me, during the shooting of Andrew Brown.


And he said four of the seven deputies did not discharge their weapons. According to the sheriff, quote, "It was obvious that four deputies never fired their weapons and deserve to be reinstated to active duty."

That means that he has narrowed the list down to three deputies who were the shooters that day. Again, he has named them publicly. So we'll name those three shooters, according to Sheriff Tommy Wooten.

Those three are Daniel Meads, listed as the rank -- as having the rank of investigator. He has been with the sheriff's department since September of 2015.

Robert Morgan, who has the rank of deputy sheriff. He has been with the department since December of 2016.

And Aaron Lewellyn, who holds the rank of corporal. He has been with the department of March 2019.

Again, the three deputies, according to the sheriff's list, still on administrative leave.

Meaning, according to the sheriff, these were the deputies who discharged their weapons in the shooting of Andrew Brown, Daniel Meads, Robert Morgan, Aaron Lewellyn.

Four other deputies have been placed back on active duty -- Victor?

CAMEROTA: I'll take it, Brian. Thank you very much for those developments. Please keep us posted.

Breaking news coverage continues now as President Biden is in Georgia to start selling his ambitious economic plan to the people and to meet with former President Jimmy Carter. We're live.