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Riot Suspects Uses Fox as Defense; Marty Walsh is Interviewed about the Jobs Numbers; Unfounded Claims in Arizona Election Audit. Aired 9:30-10a ET.

Aired May 07, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:15]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, there's a new defense strategy for one of the more than 400 people charged in the violent Capitol insurrection. The attorney for this particular defendant is blaming his behavior on so-called Foxitis, saying he watched Fox News too much, for six months straight in the lead-up to the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Can't make this stuff up.

Anthony Antonio's lawyer says his client believed the lies about the 2020 election that were, quote, fed to him by Fox News and former President Trump.

Our Whitney Wild has more.

Whitney, you know, I mean you smile because it's a remarkable defense, but it's really serious because this is supposed to be a news outlet, and the president and the news outlet kept lying.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's really alarming and it raises a lot of, you know, other, you know, concepts we've been talking about a lot, which is the impact of this, you know, the proliferation of fake news, of, you know, simply misinformation and the real damage that that causes.

So here, in this case, the attorney for the defendant, Anthony Antonio, said his client lost his job at the start of the pandemic and basically only watched Fox News afterward. He said, quote, for the next proximate six months, Fox television played constantly. He became hooked with what I call foxitis or foxmania and became interested in the political aspect and started believing what was being fed to him.

What was being fed to him, according to his attorney, were the lies of election fraud, consistently pushed by former president Donald Trump. Antonio was charged with five federal crimes related to the January 6th Capitol insurrection, including violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds. In court documents he's also accused of pouring water on an officer being dragged down Capitol steps. And once he got inside the Capitol, he's accused of throwing broken furniture around inside the building.

Antonio has not yet entered a plea but clearly offered some kind of explanation, Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: This, by the way, the former president, and many Republican lawmakers, are still pushing that lie. In fact, they're about to push someone out from leadership because she, Liz Cheney, contradicted it.

We do hear another defendant is making a special request, I suppose, you might call it, for Mother's Day?

WILD: Yes. This case surrounds a man named Eric Munchel (ph) and his mother. They are co-defendants. They're out. But one of the conditions of their release from custody is that they can't speak with one other. However, Munchel has gone to a judge to say, can I at least call my mother for Mother's Day? We'll see what the judge has to say about that, Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: OK, Whitney Wild, thank you very, very much.

Well, up next for us, a major disappointment on the jobs front. Far fewer jobs added in the last month than expected. The labor secretary, Marty Walsh, is here next.

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[09:38:24]

HARLOW: This morning, a really disappointing jobs report. Just 266,000 jobs added last month. A million were expected. Labor Secretary Marty Walsh is with me now.

Mr. Secretary, thank you. Good morning.

MARTY WALSH, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF LABOR: Thank you for having me today.

HARLOW: Why such a disappointment?

WALSH: It's actually kind of funny when we're talking about 266,000 jobs added to the economy in such disappointment. You know, we're seeing that our economy's still growing and we're still recovering. If you look at the three-month average here in this country, over 500,000 jobs added every single month. And we're going in the right direction.

I think that we anticipate -- people have anticipated the numbers were going to be in the million, 2 million, but the reality -- the reality of the situation is we're still very much in the midst of the pandemic and -- but we are seeing -- we are seeing many areas recover. One very bright spot of this recovery today was the leisure and hospitality industry, which includes restaurants, added the most amount of jobs. And that's a very good sign because those areas were hit the hardest all across America. HARLOW: Except, I mean, I don't have to tell you what restaurant

owners and operators are seeing. They are having an incredibly hard time getting people to come back to work. Listen to one right here in New York City.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIPPE MASSOUD, CHEF AND OWNER, ILILI NYC: We have no staff to open for lunch at all. Normally you get at least 30, 40, 50 people, 60 people, depending on how the economy is doing. We only had three people respond to our ads. And none of them showed up. We're supposed to go hire people to retain them, but at the same time, you're paying unemployment, it creates a conflict of interest, so to speak.

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[09:40:04]

HARLOW: They think people aren't coming back to work because they're getting the extra federal unemployment benefits. Do you think that's the case?

WALSH: No, I don't necessarily think that's the case. I think that there are definitely barriers to people coming back to work. There's lots of issues around child care. Still many of our kids are still in school in a hybrid model. Some are in person. Some are learning remotely. We also have concerns -- people have concerns about the virus. As we get more and more people vaccinated, that's a good sign. There are still people concerned about it.

But one bright side also in this report for the month of April is that we saw more people want to -- looking for work in the month of April than the previous months as far as the pandemic goes. So I know that there's lots of concerns as we move forward here. But I do think that as we continue to move down this road, we will see more people come back into all the different industries.

HARLOW: You -- I mean you really don't think -- I hear you and all those things can be true at the same time. Child care issues, a big problem, especially for women. COVID concerns. I get it. But you really don't think it's a contributing factor at all? I mean you have Montana and South Carolina overnight saying they are not going to take after the month of June these federal increased unemployment benefits in order to incentivize people to get back to work. Are they wrong?

WALSH: Well, one of the -- well, one of the things about Montana is the unemployment rate's 3.6 percent. And you look around the country, we're still at 6 percent, 6.1 percent unemployment rate. You look in communities of color, that's 9.7 percent in the black community.

HARLOW: Yes.

WALSH: So there's still concerns out there. And the virus is still very much with us. We're dealing with, as you know this, I mean we've talked about it many times, we're dealing with a pandemic that has had severe consequences on people. So I think as we move forward here, I think we'll start to see more and more people get back into the workforce and start to go into those jobs.

And I've heard those same questions and some same concerns from restaurant owners about people wanting to go back in.

HARLOW: Yes.

WALSH: But what we need to do also is make sure that we raise wages as well so that people have incentives to go back to work.

HARLOW: Here's an interesting proposal, not from me, but this comes from another restaurant owner. This is in Miami. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLOS GAZITUA, CEO, SERGIO'S FAMILY RESTAURANT: People should keep the unemployment benefits if they go to work now and they commit to working until the end of the year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What do you think of that idea?

WALSH: I think every idea should be on the table, quite honestly. I think if restaurant owners and people have ideas, I think we should be open to them all and look at all these ideas. I think that what we want to do is we get people to work, we need to have people into long- term employment so it's not seasonal, its's not for a few months here at a time and they get laid off. And I think that a lot of the restaurants, I mean -- I mean I feel bad for the restaurants. They've been hit some of the hardest during this pandemic.

Where they've, you know, literally had to shut down and they've had to go -- they've gone hybrid as well with just takeouts, six feet apart in the restaurants, capacity issues. But what you're seeing around the country is a lot of restaurants are coming back to 100 percent capacity. So I think we're going to see a lot of those workers start to come back in those industries as well.

HARLOW: The numbers are incredibly concerning for black men and women and Hispanic men and women. I mean blacks in this country now face twice the -- still twice the unemployment rate of white Americans. What is your plan specifically to get them back to work?

WALSH: Well, I -- you're definitely right there as far -- as far as the concern and we had a concern before the pandemic. In the American Rescue Plan, the president put forth a plan that does address employment numbers as far as the communities of color.

We also have -- we didn't talk about this yet, women -- still a lot of women out of the workforce. Last month the number was 2 million. I think we're still at 1.8, 1.9 million roughly women that still aren't coming back into the workforce. So we have significant work to do there to get people back into the workforce.

HARLOW: But what are you going to do? I mean I know I'm like -- I'm a lucky woman that I can have child care at home and be here.

WALSH: Yes, a lot -- a lot of --

HARLOW: But the millions you just mentioned aren't. I guess -- I guess there's a big worry that there's not a targeted enough plan for minorities and women.

WALSH: Well, I think what -- sorry. Sorry, go ahead.

HARLOW: Go ahead.

WALSH: A lot of the industries that people of color and women have worked in, some of them haven't come back that strong and we have to focus on making sure we think about a recovery that is across all sectors and all different areas. And those are -- those are -- those are the good -- that's part of the problem, I think, as far - s far as getting people back into the economy. Sectors where people of color have worked in generally aren't coming back as strong and we need to -- we need to continue to work on those areas.

I think, again, leisure and hospitality is one of those industries that lots of people of color work in and lots of women work in. We saw some significant gain this month and hopefully as we continue to move forward here, the confidence will come back in those areas and we'll see those jobs coming back even -- even -- even in larger numbers.

HARLOW: I want to get your reaction to what JP Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon said just yesterday about concerns over what he sees as really, you know, just throwing money out there and hoping it sticks when we're talking about $6 trillion in plans from this administration for new spending. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JP MORGAN CHASE: I worry about not just the bill, but we're just throwing money.

[09:45:04]

It doesn't work. And, you know, we already have -- we already waste tremendous sums of money. So -- and I think we owe that to the American public to tell the American public, if you're going to give me your money, I'm going to be a good steward of it and here's what I'm going to accomplish. I'm going to report back to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Doesn't he make a fair point?

WALSH: Well, I don't know if I'd say it's throwing money around. I would say it's investments. When you talk about the American Jobs Plan, it's investments in roads and bridges. It's investments in broadband access. It's investments in electric grids. It's investments in workforce training. When you talk about the American Family Plan, it's investments in education, as far as universal (INAUDIBLE) --

HARLOW: No, I hear you --

WALSH: So it's not throwing --

HARLOW: But having interviewed Dimon a number of times, his concern is accountability and data that shows that it worked for the purpose, right?

WALSH: Well, I mean, you know, if you look in those different areas, I mean, in the city of Boston, when I was the mayor, we had universal pre-kindergarten. We brought it forward and New York has it. And it's still early because we've only brought it in the last couple of years, but the numbers will show that having young people in school earlier will raise their expectations for success and graduating from high school and going on to college and getting good jobs. This is about an investment in the future of the work force. That's what this is about.

When you talk about roads and bridges, I mean, you make investments in those roads, it's going to improve commerce, it's going to improve connectivity, it's going to improve -- these are really good, strong investments. These aren't -- these aren't social plans that are being created as kind of, oh, we want to -- hopefully we see something, benefits of it.

HARLOW: No.

WALSH: These are going to make definite impacts in American lives all across this country.

HARLOW: If there is that amount of spending, if you guys get it all through, we all hope for that. We're just -- we're -- just to be frank to our viewers, we're talking about six times the amount of spending that this country spent, inflation adjusted, to get us out of the Great Depression. That's the kind of number we're talking about.

But my final question, quickly, for you, Secretary, is, I wonder if the administration is supportive of American companies mandating vaccines for their employees to come back to work?

WALSH: I don't have the answer to that question at this moment. I'd have to have a conversation with the president. But I definitely think the president's been very clear in asking people to get vaccinated, the importance of getting vaccinated, and the importance of keeping yourself safe and your family safe and people around you safe.

HARLOW: OK. When you have that conversation with the president, come back.

WALSH: I will.

HARLOW: We're glad to have you.

WALSH: I will.

HARLOW: And congratulations on the new job.

Thanks again. WALSH: Thanks for having me today. Thank you. Thank you.

HARLOW: OK. Thank you.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Always good to have a Boston accent on the air.

Next, the Justice Department is warning Arizona Senate Republicans their 2020 election audit, they call it, could be violating civil rights laws. We're live, next.

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[09:52:06]

HARLOW: There is a clash brewing between Arizona Republicans and federal authority over what is essentially a partisan review, again, of the 2020 election. "The Washington Post" reports Arizona Republicans are pushing back against the Justice Department's concern that using a private contractor for the so-called audit may not comply with federal and civil rights laws.

SCIUTTO: They say there's no reason for the federal government to get involved.

CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny is in Phoenix this morning.

Jeff, just for folks who may not be following this closely, what do we know about this review, the company behind it? I mean there are state mandated actual audits run by actual government officials, which have confirmed the election results in a number of states. What is happening here?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It is not that, Jim. Those reviews have taken place. Six months ago Joe Biden carried the state of Arizona. That is not in question by most state officials. The Republican governor here, Doug Ducey, back then, after those reviews, said that the election was fine.

But now there is a Republican commissioned audit review of the ballots here in Maricopa County. Some 2.1 million ballots going back over them. This is, you know, commissioned by the Republican-led Arizona senate.

So now the Justice Department has raised concerns, as you said, about the integrity of going back over these ballots and going back over this, and particularly this firm that the Arizona senate Republicans have hired certainly has ties to the big lie, if you will. The -- they have raised questions about the election fraud overall, which has not been founded.

But they also have suggested that they would go back and interview some voters. That's what raised the concern of the Justice Department this week saying that could be voter intimidation going back to interview voters that they actually cast ballots. So now the Arizona Republican Party is saying, look, the Justice Department should stay out of this.

So all of this is coming against the backdrop of what we're seeing across the country as the former president is still talking about this election fraud which there is no proof of existing. But it is also creating some concern here among other Republican elected officials. I spoke with the Republican mayor of Mesa, Arizona, the third largest city here in the state. He is a Republican. He had this to say about the so-called audit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JOHN GILES (R), MESA, ARIZONA: I am confident in the outcome of the election. And I think what's going on now in our state is really just political theater being forced on us by some political extremists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So political theater there, but it does still potentially have consequences because it just continues to fuel the concerns and the unproven allegations that the election was not conducted properly.

We should point out that Biden won Arizona. Only the second time a Democratic presidential candidate has done so here since 1948.

[09:55:03]

So turning Arizona slightly blue. That, of course, triggered a series of fallout from Republicans who are in control of the state legislature here. That's what led to this so-called audit six months after Election Day last year.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Glad you're there very much.

Jeff, thanks a lot, from Arizona for us.

Well, ahead, the likely replacement for Congresswoman Liz Cheney as the number three House Republican is also facing criticism from within her own party. We're live with that, next.

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HARLOW: Top of the hour. Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Next hour, we're going to hear from President Biden on the heels of an underwhelming April jobs report.

[10:00:01]

This morning we learned that America added just 266,000 jobs in April.