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New Video Released Of Louisiana State Police Beating Ronald Greene Before His Death; White House Offers Counterproposal On Infrastructure Bill To Republican Lawmakers; Legislation For Commission To Investigate January 6th Riot Likely Will Not Pass Senate; Republican Sen. Ted Cruz Faces Backlash After Tweet Disparaging U.S. Military In Comparison To Russian Military; Businesses In U.S. Reopening As Coronavirus Pandemic Subsides; Chicago's Largest Music Festival Returns At Full Capacity. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 22, 2021 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was like a little afro puff, then it turned into your hair.
W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST: Natural hair, natural care.
BELL: Don't step on anything. Wow. That smells delicious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BELL: Are you turning me into a farmer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm turning everybody into a farmer.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Looks like it's working. And you can watch the full episode tomorrow night at 10:00 right here on CNN.
Hello again, everyone, thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
Outrage and frustration are mounting today in Louisiana. New video obtained by CNN shows the sequence of events that led to the death of Ronald Greene, a black man in police custody. A warning, some of the images you're about to see are very disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. OK, OK. OK. No, Lord Jesus. Oh --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Louisiana state police just releasing this footage which includes nine different body and dashcam video clips. Greene's death happened over two years ago. His family says police told them he died on impact in a car crash. CNN's Randi Kaye has a closer look at those videos, and now autopsy photos obtained by CNN. But we do want to warn you, the video and the images you're about to see are very graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The new video obtained by CNN is 30 minutes long and offers a different view from a Louisiana state trooper's body camera than a video obtained earlier by the A.P. It shows Ronald Greene, following a high speed chase near Monroe, Louisiana, on the ground face down and struggling to turn over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't you turn over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't you turn over. You lay on your belly. Lay on your belly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. OK, OK, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
KAYE: Greene apologizes and politely calls the officer "Sir," even as they continue to berate him. The video shows Greene's legs shackled and his hands cuffed behind his back. When he cries out in pain, even calling on the Lord Jesus, the officers continue to restrain him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, yeah, hurts, doesn't it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Lord Jesus.
KAYE: Louisiana state police kept this video under wraps for two years. Greene's arrest and subsequent death occurred back in May, 2019. This is what the family says Louisiana state police initially told them happened.
DINELLE HARDIN, RONALD GREENE'S SISTER: That he was in a car accident and that he hit his head on the steering wheel, and that's how he died.
KAYE: The family says police initially made no mention to them of the arrest or use of force now revealed on the body camera videos. Another police report said Greene was taken into custody after resisting arrest and a struggle with troopers, and that he died on the way to the hospital. His family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit.
HARDIN: This has been a cover-up from day one. They were out to kill him. He had no chance of living.
KAYE: In the video it's not clear if Greene is offered medical attention as he lay on the ground moaning and gurgling. At one point on the new video a medical technician arrives and is clearly concerned. And when it was over, in previously released video obtained by the A.P., one trooper can be heard on his body camera audio boasting about beating Greene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I beat the ever-living -- out of him, choked him, and everything else trying to get him under control. He was spitting blood everywhere, and then all of a sudden, he went limp. Yes, I thought he was dead.
KAYE: CNN has also obtained the autopsy report. It lists Greene's cause of death as cocaine induced agitated delirium complicated by a motor vehicle collision, physical struggle, inflicted head injury, and restraint.
According to the autopsy, injuries included a fracture of the sternum or breastbone and a torn aorta, the body's main artery. The autopsy notes that Greene had alcohol and a significant level of cocaine in his system. These post-mortem photos of Greene released on the NAACP Baton Rouge Facebook page show the extent of his injuries, and the autopsy notes "Lacerations of the head inconsistent with motor vehicle collision injury," instead finding "These injuries are most consistent with multiple impact sites from a blunt object."
[14:05:00]
Randi Kaye, CNN, Palm Beach County, Florida.
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WHITFIELD: And earlier today I spoke with Ronald Greene's mother, Mona Hardin, and the family attorney, Lee Merritt, about what happens now that the whole world has seen the events that led up to Greene's death, and here's what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE MERRITT, GREENE FAMILY ATTORNEY: Similar to the case of George Floyd, we're hoping that now because the state of Louisiana has already failed to do justice, it's been two years, they meted out a 50-hour suspension and one termination of an officer who died the same day. The other officers involved in this were allowed to continue.
So we're hoping that those shocking images like the shocking images of Ahmaud Arbery, once it's in the hands of the people of Louisiana and the people of this country, that we will stand up and demand accountability. We're hoping to hear from the attorney general's office in Louisiana so that state charges can move parallel to the federal investigation. And we're expecting federal indictments sometime this summer.
MONA HARDIN, RONALD GREENE'S MOTHER: The state of Louisiana has no credibility. They're an organized crime ring that's gone on for hundreds and hundreds of years. You can see this time and time again. With my son, you can -- you can just see it from the very beginning to end. It implicates those who are on there and then some.
And it's just like Mr. Merritt said, they have no credibility. They continue to try to shy away from and shine the light on other issues that has nothing to do with my son's murder. I'm disgusted. I just haven't grieved. And I haven't even screamed, I haven't cried. And they have -- there's no empathy for how they do another human being, and they let the families continue to suffer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Greene's family filed a federal wrongful death lawsuit last year. The case is also now the subject of a federal civil rights investigation involving the FBI, the Department of Justice, and the U.S. Attorney General's Office.
All right, moving now to another developing story. The White House is dropping the price of the president's massive infrastructure plan in a counteroffer to reluctant Republicans. The new plan reduces the size of Biden's initial proposal, known as the American Jobs Plan, from $2.25 trillion to $1.7 trillion. The new offer is a decrease of $550 billion. But it still leaves the two sides very far apart.
For more on these developments, let's bring in Arlette Saenz at the White House. So Arlette, what are Republicans saying about Biden's counterproposal?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Fred, Republicans are saying they feel like they are even further apart than they were when they met with President Biden a few weeks ago, even as the White House has offered to pare back their plan, cutting their infrastructure proposal by about $550 billion.
What the White House is saying is that this shows they are willing to play ball and make some concessions, but that Republicans also need to meet them part of the way. And I want to run through some of those concessions the White House says they are making. They are removing manufacturing research and development, and also the supply chain out of these talks.
That would be handled in a separate bill. They have also agreed to lower the funding for broadband investment to $65 billion. That was a figure that was put forth by Republicans. Their new proposal also pares back funding for roads and bridges, and it also creates this financing facility for infrastructure projects.
Now the White House is saying because the president is willing to make these concessions, there are components of his initial proposal that he wants to make sure stay in the plan. That includes care infrastructure, things like home care and disability services. And one thing that the two sides are still incredibly far apart on is how exactly to pay for this measure. The White House insisting that they want to do this by raising the corporate tax rate, which Republicans have said is a no-go.
Now, Republicans have objected to this initial counterproposal from the White House saying that they still feel like they're far apart in the funding, and also in what exactly defines infrastructure. But today the White House is responding to that Republican criticism. A spokesperson, Andrew Bates, saying the ball is now in their court to respond with a good faith counteroffer. Now, the White House has suggested that they would like to get closer
to reaching some type of deal towards the end of this coming week. We don't have an exact timeframe for when they might cut off talks with Republicans. But this window for potentially striking a bipartisan deal could be coming to a close very soon.
WHITFIELD: Arlette Saenz at the White House, thanks for that.
[14:10:00]
So chances of a bipartisan 9/11-style commission to investigate the Capitol riot do appear doomed. The House approved a bill to investigate the January 6th insurrection, and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer plans to bring the bill to the Senate floor as soon as next week. The bill needs the support of 10 GOP senators in order to pass.
But Senate Republicans are now poised to block it from even being debated with a filibuster. For the very latest now, let's bring in Suzanne Malveaux on Capitol Hill. Suzanne, where do things stand?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fred, it's quite amazing when you think about it, what a difference a week makes, because you had this deal that was negotiated, it was announced, and it even passed on the House side with the support of 35 Republicans. Looks like it's going nowhere at this point, and that is because behind-the- scenes talks that happened with the Republican leadership.
Not only you have the senator, Mitch McConnell, but you also had Kevin McCarthy behind the scenes. There was a critical coffee date, if you will, with at least a dozen Republicans. Looks like it is not going to happen on the Senate side to get those 10 Republicans on board that would help overcome a filibuster to even make this happen for it to be debated and to be voted on.
Schumer's going to try and least get a vote on the record from some of those Republicans. Fred, I want to show a graphic real quick of the main senators, Republican senators who we know in the leadership, influential Republicans who will not be voting for this, and give a sense of behind the scenes what had happened, because you had McConnell who reached out to these Republican senators, making the case here that, first of all, this commission wasn't necessary.
The Justice Department had already been investigating this. But secondly, looking at the legislation, that it would not be able to be formed in time, in scale, and scope according to the legislation, a deadline that the commission would be finished with its work by the end of the year argued that that wasn't possible, and that the problem here, Fred, is that it would spill over into the 2022 year, the midterm elections.
That is the one thing that Republicans have been very concerned about, that much of the focus of this commission would be discussed, would be debated while and during those midterm elections that they want to see the House and the Senate back in their control. Another thing you should note, Fred, in the second graphic shows that
even those Republicans who had co-sponsored this legislation now either voting against it or will be voting against it is that you had the former president Trump weighing in, as well. Those 35 Republicans who voted for this on the House side, Trump weighing in, calling them ineffective, calling them weak, and also threatening that there would be some sort of consequences to those members of Congress.
And so you can see how all of this is playing out. It has become hyper-politicized. It is really amazing, Fred, when you think about it. I covered the formation of the 9/11 commission, and it took a year and a half by the time it was formed to the time they had the report that was issued.
This is one of the arguments that Republicans are making now, that they can't see this all happening within a six-month time period, therefore they just decided that they're not even going to vote for their own legislation that some of them had sponsored to put this forward because of the politics behind it. Some of the Democrats, Fred, are saying, well, perhaps not an independent bipartisan commission similar to 9/11, but maybe a committee run by Democrats to investigate this. Fred?
WHITFIELD: All fascinating, Suzanne Malveaux, thank you so much on Capitol Hill.
All right, coming up, Senator Ted Cruz facing backlash now from the U.S. military community after reposting Russian propaganda.
Plus, vaccine hesitancy worries about returning to school and travel anxiety. We'll have a panel of doctors to answer all of your questions about "Life After Lockdown."
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[14:18:05]
WHITFIELD: Republican Senator Ted Cruz is facing backlash after he called out the U.S. Army for using a recruitment ad featuring a woman who was raised by two mothers. Military veterans are now calling him out for his comments. Hear now is CNN's Oren Liebermann.
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OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: This is pure testosterone-packed Russian propaganda, a TikTok video about the toughness of the Russian soldier shared by one Senator Ted Cruz on Twitter. The video then compares the 2014 ad to a recent U.S. Army animated video about a female soldier raised by two mothers who joined the Army.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I also marched for equality --
LIEBERMANN: "Holy crap, perhaps a woke, emasculated military is not the best idea," the Republican senator from Texas wrote. Aside from promoting the Russian military, Cruz also appears to be disparaging Corporal Emma Malonelord, who graduated at the top of her high school class and joined the Army out of college. Cruz, let's remember, has never served in the military. The backlash was swift.
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET): Myself and a lot of veterans are very upset by this. It is not the right thing to disparage our military.
LIEBERMANN: Senator Tammy Duckworth, the helicopter pilot and Iraq War veteran who lost parts of both legs when her chopper was hit by an RPG, tweeted this -- "Holy crap, perhaps a U.S. Senator shouldn't suggest that the Russian military is better than the American military that protected him from an insurrection he help helped foment."
General Robert Abrams, the four-star commander of U.S. Forces South Korea threw his support behind Corporal Malonelord. "I met this corporal a few months ago during a routine unit visit," he wrote on Twitter, "Exceptionally sharp, professional, technical expert, highly respected by her peers, superiors, and subordinates."
Under Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin the Pentagon has celebrated its diversity and inclusion.
LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Diversity throughout the force is a source of strength. So we can't afford to deprive ourselves of the talents and the voices of the full range of the nation that we defend.
[14:20:08]
LIEBERMANN: And if a female soldier who operates patriot missiles isn't bad ass enough for Cruz, he could have chosen one of the many other Army videos to promote the U.S. military. Instead, Cruz doubled down on his tweet.
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R-TX): We're seeing Democratic politicians and these woke leftie bureaucrats and leftie media reporters trying to destroy the American military, trying to turn it into, frankly, a bunch of pansies.
LIEBERMANN: It's not the first time Cruz has run into trouble with women in the military. In 2016, as he was mounting a failed presidential bid, Cruz scoffed at the idea of women in combat.
CRUZ: We had three different Republican candidates say, yes, it's a great idea to be drafting our daughters, to be drafting women, into combat roles in the military. My reaction to that is, are they nuts?
LIEBERMANN: The Army has posted a number of these animated videos over the course of the past two weeks, about a half-dozen. It's known as "The Calling," a series intended to show why soldiers decided to serve. All of them it seems have had their comments turned off on YouTube. The Army says, at least in the case of Corporal Malonelord that it turned off the comments because the comments violated the Army's social media policy and didn't uphold army values.
Oren Liebermann, CNN, at the Pentagon.
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WHITFIELD: Coming up, as the number of new COVID cases drops, travel plans for many families picks up. What to know before you go to a hotel or jump on a plane.
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[14:26:03]
WHITFIELD: All right, America is finally reopening after more than a year under lockdown. And right now, 38 percent of the U.S. population is fully vaccinated against coronavirus. The number of cases week over week is falling in at least 37 states. And many people are returning to work and school. Some are even planning vacations. For more on the changes, let's check in in with our CNN correspondents.
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RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: I'm Richard Quest in New York. As more and more Americans get vaccinated, they're rushing to travel again. The Transportation Security Administration screened a record 1.8 million people at airports on Sunday. It's the most since the pandemic began.
Meanwhile, AAA predicts more than 37 million travelers will hit the road for Memorial Day holiday weekend, 60 percent more than last year. And the CEO of Airbnb, he's expecting a return to travel like nothing we've seen before, calling it the travel rebound of the century.
LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Leyla Santiago at the South Beach Wine and Food Fest. This is one of the largest events to get back up and running after the COVID outbreak. And on the surface, it certainly feels like things are back to normal. But it's not like pre- COVID.
Just to get in there are temperature checks, there are digital screenings, they have rapid testing on hand. And they're asking anyone who's not eating and drinking to wear their masks. But remember, it's a food and wine fest, so that's exactly what they're doing. A lot of safety measures in place for what organizers said a few months ago they didn't even know if this would happen.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Tom Foreman in Washington, D.C., where the pandas are on the prowl again. The National Zoo is reopening. Now they're doing it conservatively, asking people to get timed passes to come in fully vaccinated and to stay away from some exhibits.
But by and large they're trying to work their way up to about 5,000 people. That's only 20 percent of the zoo's capacity, but it's a nice, easy start. And those folks will be able to see most of the lions and tigers and bears and, yes, if they're lucky, even a glimpse of those famous pandas.
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WHITFIELD: A different kind of panda-emic. Get it?
(LAUGHTER)
WHITFIELD: Let's talk for the next 30 minutes "Life After Lockdown." Joining me right now, Dr. Celine Gounder, CNN medical analyst and infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist, she's also the host of "The Epidemic" podcast, Dr. Kali Cyrus, a psychiatrist and assistant professor at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, and CNN medical analyst Dr. Leana Wen, she's also the former Baltimore health commissioner.
Good to see all of you. So let's talk travel, because people are just itching to get on the road or head to the skies, something. So Dr. Wen, many states are lifting mask mandates for people who have been vaccinated. But why are they still required on airplanes?
DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: That's a really good question. And actually the policy for the airplanes has it right, because I think that whenever you have vaccinated and unvaccinated people mixing, and if there's no way of checking for vaccine status, then we should still be wearing masks.
And think about on a plane, there are lots of people sitting in a confined area next to one another. They're probably coming from many parts of the country, or in some cases many parts of the world. There may be hotspots in those areas, and there are variants from a lot of different places, too.
And so everybody wearing masks helps to protect those who are not yet vaccinated, including young children. It also helps to protect those who are immunocompromised who may not mount as much of an immune response. And so I would really emphasize people should be wearing masks while on planes and in airports and ideally in other places where there are unvaccinated and vaccinated people mixing.
WHITFIELD: I just got on a plane this week and I couldn't help myself. I have been vaccinated, but I was still hermetically sealed just because.
[14:30:00]
So Dr. Cyrus, how can you prepare for flying for the stresses of flying for the first time in more than a year for people? There's a lot of anxiety.
DR. KALI CYRUS, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, JOHNS HOPKINS SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, I think you said it. You named the anxiety. I think that right now people are still trying to understand what it's like to get back to real life. And I think first of all, just naming it and knowing that it's acceptable that a lot of people might feel this way is the first thing to do.
Secondly, what are you most afraid of, or what are you most nervous about? Be able to ask those questions and then follow up and get the answers, much like what Dr. Wen is talking about, and how flights and airports are handling this. And try to acknowledge what you can control versus what you can't.
Are there things like flying on a weekday where the airport is less congested or being prepared to minimize the stress of the rest of your family by having your headphones, having your iPad, having all the snacks that you need ready so you don't have to worry about eating at the airport. The first thing is just having that open conversation with each member of your family, especially the children, and finding out what their anxieties are.
WHITFIELD: OK. So Dr. Gounder, when people travel, sometimes they're not going to be staying with family members, they have to stay in a hotel. So what are some of the questions that we should be asking before checking into a hotel?
DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's important to remember, Fred, how the virus is actually transmitted. So early in the pandemic, we thought that this was a virus that was transmitted through droplets and through surfaces.
And so we really emphasized things like distance of six feet or more and handwashing and cleaning surfaces. But now that we have a better understanding that really a big chunk of the transmission is through aerosols, so it's airborne, you really need to be thinking about, as you're checking into the hotel room, has somebody very recently been in that room, or has there been a few hours, have they opened windows and aerated, ventilated the room --
WHITFIELD: So you're asking them that question? And do we expect that they're going to be honest about that?
GOUNDER: As somebody who actually advises some of these companies about their practices around this, I think many of them are taking this seriously. You mentioned the Airbnb, for example. They are taking this seriously and providing guidance to their hosts about how to go about this.
And so I think you might see a relaxation of things like surface cleaning and not going as crazy with that. But then making sure you open windows and so on between guests to make sure you appropriately ventilate the space.
WHITFIELD: And Dr. Wen, to build on what Dr. Cyrus was just talking about, when you are traveling with your family, in a lot of instances the children are unvaccinated. So from a public health standpoint, what is safer for an unvaccinated child? A pool or beach?
WEN: Well, I am thinking about this a lot myself as I have two young kids, neither of whom are vaccinated because of age. I have a one- year-old and three-and-a-half-year-old. In terms of the pool or the beach, actually both are very safe if they are outdoors. We know that COVID-19 is not transmitted through water, and actually chlorine in the pool helps to kill the virus.
But also, anything outdoors in general is going to be much safer than indoors, going backing to Dr. Gounder's point about how COVID is transmitted through the air. If you have a lot of air around you as you are outside in a very well ventilated space, that's extremely safe. So I would certainly feel very safe with me kids at the beach, also at an outdoor pool.
If it's an indoor pool, I might feel differently, especially if there are lots of kids around who are unvaccinated. Remember that at this time, even though so many restrictions are being lifted, there's still a high risk to people who are unvaccinated. So trying to be outdoors is the best thing that our unvaccinated kids can be doing at this time.
WHITFIELD: All right, doctors, stick around. More questions coming up. Restaurants reopen, and concerts and sports games make a comeback, as well. We'll tell you what need to know before you go.
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[14:37:55]
WHITFIELD: Welcome back to our coronavirus special "Life After Lockdown." As coronavirus cases and hospitalizations decline, restaurants are reopening, and social events are making a comeback. Here's the latest reporting from our CNN correspondents.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm in New York City where an industry badly battered by the pandemic is getting back on its feet. Restaurants have returned to full capacity. Bar seating made its comeback earlier this month. The curfew has already been lifted on outdoor dining, and there are plans to lift the curfew for indoor dining by the end of the month.
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: I'm Coy Wire in Atlanta. More and more fans are experiencing the thrill of live sports as teams relax protocols at arenas and stadiums. Just over 6,000 spectators witnessed LeBron James seal the Lakers' playoff spot with this game-winning three over the Warriors' Steph Curry at Staples Center Wednesday night.
The amount of fans allowed at this weekend's NBA playoff games will vary, but every team will have spectators in seats. The biggest crowd in America since March, 2020, is expected on Memorial Day weekend at the Indy 500. An estimated 135,000 fans will be on hand to see what is known as the greatest spectacle in racing, though that is still just 40 percent capacity at the huge Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Adrienne Broaddus in Chicago. And outdoor music festivals are returning. Foo Fighters, Megan Thee Stallion, Post Malone, and Journey are some of the artists who will perform at that year's Lollapalooza Festival in July. Attendees must show proof that they are fully vaccinated or have received a negative COVID-19 test. It's unclear how attendees will be required to document their vaccination history.
Meanwhile, across the country, signs of getting back to normal are returning. In New York, people are preparing to attend the governor's ball, and in Tennessee tickets for the Bonnaroo Festival have already sold out.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
WHITFIELD: Have fun, everybody.
[14:40:00]
Let's talk about all of these changes and requirements, too. Dr. Gounder, researchers in the United Kingdom studied nine mass gatherings where there were no masks, no social distancing. Attendees only needed a negative COVID test. And out of 60,000 people, 15 tested positive. So is it safe to go to a concert or sporting event?
GOUNDER: Well, Fred, I think it's important to remember that the U.S. is not the U.K. They are much farther along -- or at least farther along in vaccination rollout than we are here in the United States. And even within the U.S., some states are farther along in vaccination rollouts.
Some states have higher or lower local rates of community transmission. So I think it really does depend on is this an indoor or outdoor event, and secondly, what are the local circumstances where that event is being held.
WHITFIELD: And Dr. Wen, if you have an unvaccinated child, does that mean it's best to leave them at home for events like this?
WEN: I think if there is absolutely the proof of vaccination that's given at these events, as in everybody attending is definitely vaccinated or had a negative COVID test, I would certainly feel better about bringing my kids there. But without that proof of vaccination, the rates of community spread is just too high in many parts of the country, and I wouldn't bring my unvaccinated children to mass events like that.
WHITFIELD: Yes. So Dr. Cyrus, the White House is teaming up with prominent dating apps to offer incentives to customers who are vaccinated. Take a listen to Dr. Andy Slavitt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY SLAVITT, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER FOR COVID RESPONSE: We have finally found the one thing that makes us all more attractive -- a vaccination. These dating apps will allow vaccinated people to display badges which show their vaccination status, filtered specifically to see only people who are vaccinated, and offer premium content, details of which I cannot get into.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All right, Dr. Cyrus, dating advice for those who are dating -- if you're about to go on that first date, is it appropriate to ask, have you been vaccinated?
CYRUS: I think it's appropriate to ask. Would you rather spend the entire day just wondering? (LAUGHTER)
WHITFIELD: That's uncomfortable.
CYRUS: Right. Exactly, you won't enjoy that date. I also think what's the harm of being able to ask a question? That person can certainly tell you the answer. And one, it will put you more at ease. Two, what I also recommend folks do is if you get an answer that is no, ask why, because you never know, it might be the off chance someone has an allergy to the vaccine or maybe you'll find out that they're actually an anti-vaxxer.
That might make your decision a little bit easier about whether or not you want to go on a date. But many people might have their own reasons for not getting a vaccine but still be following wearing masks or restricting their interactions. And you might actually, in addition to getting an answer, have an opportunity to move the needle and help somebody change their mind.
WHITFIELD: All right. OK, that initial question might reveal a whole lot more about whether you all should be hooking up or not.
So Dr. Gounder, there was a lot of talk about vaccine passports. And now some states are actually banning them altogether. So is this a dead-end, or can this plan be revived? What do you think about it? Should it be?
GOUNDER: Well, Fred, many states still allow vaccine credentials. New York state, in fact, has released its New York Excelsior app, which is essentially an app that allows you to verify somebody's vaccination status or testing status. So I think what we may see is different approaches in different states. And I think that's not necessarily a bad thing, because that will provide us with more information about what works, sort of an experiment in trying to figure out.
But I think what you're going to see is that much of this is going to be driven by the private sector because many businesses do understand, especially hospitality, restaurants, and the like, that there are some people who will not feel safe coming back unless they have some sort of confirmation that the people around them are safe to be around.
WHITFIELD: All right, doctors, stick around. We've got more questions coming up, questions about kids. We'll ask our doctors about what's safe, what's not safe, as families head into the summer.
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[14:48:40]
LAUREN RUTKOWSKI, DIRECTOR, CAMP IHC: There's a lot of excitement. I think that camp is the light at the end of a very long tunnel. Camp is going to serve as an incredible elixir for kids. They need this recovery space.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Oh, boy, do they. So ziplines, camp fires, all that returning for the first time since the pandemic. According to the American Camp Association, 19.5 million children lost out on camping last year. This year, they're going to be some changes like smaller bleachers, sanitizing stations, and reimagined bunk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF MERHIGE, CAMP WIDJIWAGAN: We added ceiling fans. We upgraded the filter system to have 13 filters, and then we still added air scrubbers. We painted the cabin in anti-bacterial paint. And then my personal favorite is we added sneeze and cough guards to all of the bunk beds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Wow, air scrubbers, what are those? I'm going to ask one of you that, be ready. Let's bring back the panel to talk about this and the return to school and work as well. Dr. Gounder, the CDC is working on updating its summer camp guidance. Currently children are required to social distance and wear masks at all times, including when playing outdoor sports. So what did you expect the new guidance to look like, and what's the air scrubbers all about?
[14:50:00]
GOUNDER: So Fredricka, one of the big advancements that's occurred in the last couple weeks is the Pfizer COVID vaccine has now been authorized in 12 to 15-year-olds. So many of the kids that would be attending camp do fall in that age group. And so I think what you're going to see is the CDC formulating guidance for kids who have been vaccinated who are in the older age groups versus kids who really don't have even the option to get vaccinated who are under 12 right now.
In terms of what they're saying with air scrubbers, what we're talking about is filtration systems for the air to really reduce the risk of indoor transmission of the virus.
WHITFIELD: That's pretty sophisticated at these overnight camps then. So Dr. Wen, let's talk about sporting events. What is the best way to keep unvaccinated children safe on the field?
WEN: Well, I actually think the CDC should be revising their guidelines specifically around outdoor sports. Outdoors is just so much more protective than indoors. And I think the CDC needs to differentiate between outdoor sports and indoor sports. Outdoor sports, I actually don't think that masks should be required while playing sports outdoors.
The real danger is actually around the sports, as in if there is a pizza party afterwards, people are going for sleepovers, if they're gathering in indoor locker rooms, that is when masks should be required for kids who are unvaccinated. The more that the CDC can differentiate between when masks are really needed, specifically indoors, including informal settings like dinners and get togethers, that's much better than saying masks are required at all times, period. Outdoors even for unvaccinated people, I don't think masks should be required.
WHITFIELD: And of course, we all want to enjoy the summer, but it is the precursor to back to school. And so you have to wonder, at least as a transition, does it mean that all schools, Dr. Wen, should require masks at least to begin with or no?
WEN: It's a tricky question and it will depend on a number of factors. One is vaccination. As Dr. Gounder mentioned, in places where kids are also vaccinated, maybe you can say if all these kids are vaccinated, maybe they don't need to be wearing masks. Another is going to be community transmission and whether we have testing available.
Testing is a layer that can actually, in some cases, replace the need for masking. And so you can imagine if teachers and staff are vaccinated, if for younger kids the community around them has pretty low rates of transmission, and we're doing some type of regular surveillance testing, maybe masks may not be required come the fall. But it's early for us to be able to say that in May.
WHITFIELD: Dr. Cyrus, us big people, we're all trying to adjust, right, to the changes. And kids are very adaptive. But what can we do, how do we best prepare kids to transition? It can be very confusing. Wear the mask, not wear the mask, people vaccinated, some people not vaccinated. What do we do? How do we help them out?
CYRUS: Yes, very good question. I'd say the first thing we do, especially if you're the parent, is to ask yourself whose anxiety is it and what is the anxiety about? Don't forget to ask your kids about their anxiety. I think we sometimes --
WHITFIELD: Imposing our anxiety on them.
CYRUS: Exactly, exactly. So once you understand what you're anxious about, please ask your children what they are anxious about. And they're going to take their cues from you, so you're going to want to be positive and reassure them about whatever those anxieties are. And you're going to want to explain it in a way that they understand and set the tone of confidence, that it's going to be OK.
You're going to also want to be flexible, because you're not going to know all the answers, and I'm sure that they're going to be protocols that might change depending on camp or school or how folks are trying to get across these COVID guidelines.
Then also have some routines so they at least know day to day what they can count on in terms of just being able to get to the next day without too much unpredictability. But really just being supportive and understanding that your kids might have different anxieties compared to what you might be experiencing, and just normalizing and accepting that, and being open so that your children feel comfortable discussing that with you.
WHITFIELD: And Dr. Gounder, if you were advising a company on how to safely bring people back into the workplace, what would you tell them? What is critical?
GOUNDER: Well, I think, first of all, what are the local circumstances? Do you have high rates of vaccination in the community? Do you have low rates of community transmission? What is the setting of the workplace? Is this an indoor office space or is this a construction worker outdoors?
And then are you a business that feels comfortable requiring or asking that your employees provide verification of vaccine status or of testing results? And you have workplaces like where I work at the hospital where we are being asked to provide documentation of our vaccination status.
Other places might just say, that's just too much trouble to figure that out and we're just going to ask everybody to keep wearing masks for now. So I think you're going to see a lot of variability depending on what makes sense for that particular workplace.
[14:55:01]
WHITFIELD: Good luck to everybody this summer and fall. We have got a long way to go.
All right, Dr. Celine Gounder, Dr. Kali Cyrus, and Dr. Leana Wen, thanks to all of you, appreciate it. Have a great summer, although I know I'll talk to you along the way, but enjoy.
And thank you at home for joining us today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The CNN Newsroom continues with Jim Acosta right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
WHITFIELD: How can you prepare your family for the stresses of fly for the first time in -- more than a year for a lot of people? There's a lot of anxiety.
CYRUS: Well, I think you've said it, you name the anxiety. I think that right now, people are still trying to understand what it's like to get back to real life. And I think first of all, just naming it, knowing that it's acceptable that a lot of people might feel this way, is the first thing to do.
Secondly, what are you most afraid of or what do you most nervous about? Be able to ask those questions and then follow up and get the answers, much like what Dr. Wen is talking about, and how flights and airports are handling this, and try to acknowledge what you can control versus what you can't.
Are there things like flying on a weekday where the airport is less congested, or being prepared to minimize the stress of the rest of your family by having your headphones, having your iPad, having all the snacks that you need ready, so you don't have to worry about eating at the airport? But I see the first thing we just having that open conversation with each member of your family, especially the children and finding out what their anxieties are.
WHITFIELD: OK. So Dr. Gounder, when people travel, sometimes they're not going to be staying with family members, they have to stay in a hotel. So what are the some of the questions that we should be asking before checking into a hotel?
GOUNDER: Well I think it's important to remember, Fred, how the virus is actually transmitted. So early in the pandemic, we thought that this was a virus that was transmitted through droplets and through surfaces. And so, we really emphasize things like distance of 6 feet or more and hand washing and cleaning surfaces.
But now that we have a better understanding that really a big chunk of the transmission is through aerosols, so it's airborne, you really need to be thinking about, you know, as you're checking into the hotel room, has somebody very recently been in that room or has there been a few hours? Have they opened windows and aerated ventilate the room?
WHITFIELD: So you're rounding them that question? And do we expect that they're going to be honest about that?
GOUNDER: Well, you know, as somebody who actually advises some of these companies about their practices around this, I think many of them are taking this seriously. You know, you mentioned Airbnb, for example, they are taking this seriously, and providing guidance to their hosts about how to go about this.
And so, you know, I think you might see a relaxation of things like surface cleaning and not going as crazy with that, but then, you know, making sure you open windows and so on between guests to make sure you appropriately ventilate the space.
WHITFIELD: And Dr. Wen, to build on what Dr. Cyrus was just talking about, you know, when you are traveling with your family, in a lot of instances, the children are unvaccinated. So from a public health standpoint, what is safer for an unvaccinated child, a pool or beach?
WEN: Well, I am thinking about this a lot myself as I have two young kids, neither of whom are vaccinated because of age. I have a one- year-old and a three and a half-year-old. In terms of the pool or the beach, actually both are very safe if they are outdoors. We know that COVID-19 is not transmitted through water and actually chlorine in the pool helps to kill the virus.
But also anything outdoors in general is going to be much safer than indoors, going back to Dr. Gounder's point about how COVID is transmitted through the air. If you have a lot of air around you as you are outside and a very well-ventilated space, that's extremely safe.
So I would certainly feel very safe with my kids at the beach, also at an outdoor pool. If it's an indoor pool, I might feel a bit differently, especially if there are lots of kids around who are also unvaccinated. Remember that at this time, even though so many restrictions are being lifted, there's still a high risk to people who are unvaccinated. So, trying to be outdoors is the best thing that our unvaccinated kids can be doing at this time.
WHITFIELD: All right, doctors stick around, more questions coming up.
Restaurants reopen and concerts and sports games make a comeback as well. We'll tell you what you need to know before you go.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:37:55]
WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back to our coronavirus special life after lockdown. As coronavirus cases and hospitalizations decline, restaurants are reopening and social events are making a comeback. Here's the latest reporting from our CNN correspondents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Alexandra Field in New York City where an industry badly battered by the pandemic is getting back on its feet. Restaurants have returned to full capacity. Bar seating made its comeback earlier this month. The curfew has already been lifted on outdoor dining and there are plans to lift the curfew for indoor dining by the end of the month.
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: I'm Coy Wire in Atlanta. More and more fans are experiencing the thrill of live sports as teams relaxed protocols at arenas and stadiums. Just over 6,000 spectators witness LeBron James seal the Lakers playoff spot with this game winning three over the Warriors Steph Curry at Staples Center Wednesday night. Now, the amount of fans allowed at this weekend's NBA playoff games will vary but every team will have spectators and seats.
The biggest crowd in America since March 2020 is expected on Memorial Day weekend at the Indy 500. An estimated 135,000 fans will be on hand to see what is known as the greatest spectacle in racing though that is still just 40 percent capacity at the huge Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Adrienne Broaddus in Chicago. And outdoor music festivals are returning. Foo Fighters and Megan Stallion, Post Malone and Journey are some of the artists who will perform at this year's Lollapalooza festival in July. Attendees must show proof that they are fully vaccinated or have received a negative COVID-19 tests. It's unclear how attendees will be required to document their vaccination history.
Meanwhile, across the country, signs of getting back to normal are returning. In New York people are preparing to attend the Governor's ball. And in Tennessee, tickets for the Bonnaroo festival have already sold out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Fun everybody. Let's talk about all of these changes in requirements too.
[14:40:01]
Dr. Gounder, researchers in the United Kingdom studied nine mass gatherings where there were no masks, no social distancing, attendees only knew that negative COVID test and out of 60,000 people, 15 tested positive. So, is it safe to go to a concert or sporting event?
GOUNDER: Well, Fred, I think it's important to remember that the U.S. is not the U.K., they are much farther along, release farther along in vaccination rollout than we are here in the United States. And even within the U.S., some states are farther along in vaccination rollout, some states have higher or lower local rates of community transmission. So I think it really does depend on, is this an indoor or outdoor event? And secondly, what are the local circumstances where that event is being held?
WHITFIELD: And Dr. Wen, if you have an unvaccinated child, does that mean it's best to leave them at home for events like this?
WEN: You know, I think if there is absolutely the proof of vaccination that is -- that's given at these events, as everybody attending, is definitely vaccinated or had a negative COVID test, I would certainly feel better about bringing my kids there. But without that proof of vaccination, the rates of community spread is just too high in many parts of the country, and I wouldn't bring my unvaccinated children to mass events like that.
WHITFIELD: Yes. So Dr. Cyrus, you know, the White House is teaming up with prominent dating apps to offer incentives to customers who, you know, are vaccinated. Take a listen to Dr. Andy Slavitt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY SLAVITT, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER FOR COVID-19 RESPONSE: We have finally found the one thing that makes us all more attractive, a vaccination. These dating apps will now allow vaccinated people to display badges which show their vaccination status, filters specifically to see only people who are vaccinated and offer premium content details of which I cannot get into.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All right, so Dr. Cyrus, dating advice for those who are dating, if you're about to go, you know, on that first date, is it appropriate to ask, have you been vaccinated?
CYRUS: I think it's appropriate to ask. Would you rather spend the entire day just wondering? Does vaccinated trying to (INAUDIBLE).
WHITFIELD: Right. That's uncomfortable.
CYRUS: Right, exactly. You don't enjoy that date. I also think about what's the harm of being able to ask a question. That person can certainly tell you the answer. And one, it'll put you more at ease. Two, you know, what I also recommend folks do is if you get an answer that is no, ask why? Because you never know it might be the off chance someone has an allergy to the vaccine, or maybe you'll find out that they're actually an anti-vaxxer and that might make your decision a little bit easier about whether or not you want to go on a date.
But many people might have their own reasons for not getting a vaccine, but still be following wearing masks or restricting their interactions. And you might actually -- and in addition to getting an answer, have an opportunity to move the needle and help somebody change their mind.
WHITFIELD: Right. OK, well, that initial question might reveal a whole lot more about whether you all should be hooking up or not. So Dr. Gounder, you know, there was a lot of talk about vaccine passports and now some states are actually banning them altogether. So is this a dead end or can this plan be revived? What do you think about it? Should it be?
GOUNDER: Well, Fred, many states still allow vaccine credentials. New York state, in fact, has released its New York Excelsior app, which is essentially a -- an app that allows you to verify somebody's vaccination status or testing status. So I think what we may see is different approaches in different states. And I think that's not necessarily a bad thing, because that will provide us with more information about what works. You know, this is sort of an experiment and trying to figure out.
But I think what you're going to see is that much of this is going to be driven by the private sector because many businesses do understand what -- especially hospitality, restaurants and the like, that there are some people who will not feel safe coming back unless they have some sort of confirmation that the people around them are safe to be around.
WHITFIELD: All right, doctors, stick around, we've got more questions coming up, questions about kids. We'll ask our doctors about what's safe, what's not safe as families head into the summer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:48:39]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAUREN RUTKOWSKI, DIRECTOR, CAMP IHC: There's a lot of excitement. I think that camp is the light at the end of a very long tunnel. Camp is going to serve as an incredible elixir for kids, like they need this recovery space.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Oh boy, do they -- so zip lines, campfires, all that returning for the first time since the pandemic According to the American Camp Association, 19.5 million children lost out on camping last year. This year, there are going to be some changes like smaller bleachers, sanitizing stations and reimagined bunk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF MERHIGE, CAMP WIDJIWAGAN: We added ceiling fans, we upgraded the filter system to MERV 13 filters and then we still added air scrubbers. We painted the cabin in antibacterial paint. And then my personal favorite is we added sneeze and cough guards to all of the bunk beds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Oh wow. Air scrubbers, what are those? OK, I'm going to ask one of you, that be ready. Let's bring back my panel to talk about this and the return to school and work as well. Dr. Gounder, the CDC is working on updating its summer camp guidance. Currently children are required to social distance and wear masks at all times including when playing outdoor sports. So, what do you expect this new guidance to look like and what's the air scrubber is all about.
[14:50:00]
GOUNDER: So, Fredericka, you know, one of the big advancements that's occurred in the last couple of weeks is that the Pfizer COVID vaccine has now been authorized for use in 12 to 15-year-olds. So, you know, many of the kids that would be attending camp do fall in that age group.
And so, I think what you're going to see is the CDC formulating guidance for kids who've been vaccinated, who are in the older age groups versus kids who really don't have even the option to get vaccinated who are under 12 right now.
In terms of, you know, what they're saying with air scrubbers, what we're talking about is filtration systems for the air to really reduce the risk of indoor transmission of the virus.
WHITFIELD: Oh, OK. That's pretty sophisticated at these overnight camps then. So Dr. Wen, you know, let's talk about sporting events. I mean, what is the best way to keep unvaccinated children safe on the field?
WEN: Well, I actually think the CDC should be revising their guidelines, specifically around outdoor sports. Outdoors is just so much more protective than indoors. And I think the CDC needs to differentiate between outdoor sports and indoor sports.
Outdoor sports, I actually don't think that masks should be required while playing sports outdoors. The real danger is actually around the sports, as in if there's a pizza party afterwards, that people are going for sleepovers, if they're gathering in indoor locker rooms, that's when masks should be required for kids who are unvaccinated.
The more that the CDC can differentiate between when masks are really needed, specifically indoors, including in informal settings, like dinners and get togethers, that's much better than saying masks are required at all times, period. Outdoors, even for unvaccinated people, I don't think masks should be required.
WHITFIELD: OK. And, of course, we all want to enjoy the summer, but it is the precursor to, you know, back to school. And so you have to wonder at least as a transition, does it mean that all schools, Dr. Wen, should require mask at least to begin with or no?
WEN: It's a tricky question, and I think it will depend on a number of factors. One is vaccination, as Dr. Gounder mentioned, in places where kids are also vaccinated. Maybe you could say if all these kids are vaccinated, they don't need to be wearing masks. Another is going to be community transmission. And whether we have testing available, testing is a layer that can actually, in some cases, replace the need for masking. And so, you can imagine if teachers and staff are vaccinated.
If for younger kids, the community around them has pretty low rates of transmission, and we're doing some type of regular surveillance testing, maybe masks may not be required to come the fall. But it's early for us to be able to say that in May.
WHITFIELD: Dr. Cyrus, big people, I mean, we're all trying to adjust, right, to the changes. And, you know, kids are very adaptive. But what can we do? How do we best prepare kids to transition? It can be very confusing, wear the mask, not wear the mask, people vaccinated, some people not vaccinated, I mean, what do we do? What -- how do we help them out?
CYRUS: Yes, very good question. I'd say the first thing to do, especially if you're the parent, is to ask yourself, whose anxiety is it and what is the anxiety about? Don't forget to ask your kids about their anxiety.
WHITFIELD: All right.
CYRUS: I think we ...
WHITFIELD: Instead of imposing our anxiety on them.
CYRUS: Exactly, exactly. So once you understand what you're anxious about, please ask your children what they're anxious about, and they're going to take their cues from you. So you're going to want to be positive and reassure them about whatever those anxieties are. And you're going to want to explain it in a way that they understand and set the tone of confidence and it's going to be OK.
You're going to also want to be flexible, because you're not going to know all the answers. And I'm sure that there going to be protocols that might change depending on camp or school or how folks are, you know, trying to get across these COVID guidelines.
Then also have some routines so that they at least know day-to-day what to -- what they can count on in terms of just being able to get to next day to next without too much unpredictability. But really just being supportive and understanding that your kids might have different anxieties compared to what you might be experiencing and just normalizing and accepting that and being open so that your children feel comfortable discussing that with you.
WHITFIELD: And Dr. Gounder, if you were advising a company on how to safely bring people back into the workplace, what would you tell them? What is critical? GOUNDER: Well, I think, you know, first of all, what are the local circumstances? Do you have high rates of vaccination in the community? Do you have low rates of community transmission? What is the setting of the workplace? Is this an indoor office space or is this construction worker outdoors?
And then are you a business that feels comfortable requiring or asking that your employees provide verification of vaccine status or of testing results? And, you know, you have workplaces like where I work, you know, at the hospital, where we are being asked to provide, you know, documentation of our vaccination status.
Other places, might just say, you know what, that's just too much trouble to figure that out. And we're just going to ask everybody to keep wearing masks for now. So, I think you're going to see a lot of variability depending on what makes sense for that particular workplace.
[14:55:01]
WHITFIELD: Good luck to everybody this summer and fall. We got a long way to go.
All right, Dr. Celine Gounder, Dr. Kali Cyrus and Dr. Leana Wen, thanks to all of you. Appreciate it. Have a great summer. Although I know I'm going to talk to you along the way, but enjoy.
And thank you at home for joining us today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, the CNN Newsroom continues with Jim Acosta right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
