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Remembering George Floyd; COVID-19 Origins?; Biden Policy Agenda. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 24, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:01:07]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: And I'm Erica Hill, in today for Victor Blackwell.

It is a make-or-break week for the Biden administration on Capitol Hill, high-stakes negotiations, deadlines and votes set to take place on several critical pieces of the president's ambitious agenda.

CAMEROTA: But listen to where they are.

At the moment, infrastructure negotiations appear on the brink of collapse. A White House counter offer is still a trillion dollars more than what Republicans want to spend.

Plus, a Senate vote on whether to set up a bipartisan commission to investigate the January 6 riots is expected to fail. And Republicans appear ready to block it from even being debated with a filibuster.

Then, a police reform bill that the president wanted on his desk by tomorrow, the one-year anniversary of George Floyd's murder, is not finished. And the president's plan for gun reform has also stalled, as has a sweeping voting bill rights -- voting rights bill, which is currently opposed by all 50 Senate Republicans and one Democrat.

So, for more on this very busy, very consequential week, let's bring in Manu Raju on Capitol Hill.

So, Manu, what's going to happen this week?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, talks will continue, but whether they get resolved is another question, because, as you mentioned, that talks have been going on through May to try to get some bipartisan deals on some major issues that are priorities for both parties, but having a hard time narrowing the differences on infrastructure, that being a top-tier issue on Biden's agenda.

But Republicans and Democrats are so far apart on this issue so far. More than a trillion dollars separates what the Republicans offered, compared to the White House's counteroffer from Friday. There's a disagreement about what actually you -- how infrastructure is defined and how to pay for it.

A lot of the details that they have sorted out for weeks have not been resolved, and Democrats will have to make a decision about whether to try to move on their own and try to essentially circumvent Republicans in the Senate, but doing that would require all 50 Democrats to agree. And there's not any agreement within -- on the Democratic side.

But then there are other issues, like police reform, as you mentioned, a huge bill dealing with all the spate -- episodes of police violence that we have seen throughout this country. There have been bipartisan talks that have been going on for weeks and weeks. But that has no resolution, in large part because of a major sticking point, dealing with this issue of so-called qualified immunity.

That is try to -- Democrats are pushing to limit the civil lawsuit protections now afforded to police officers. They have tried to cut a middle ground with Republicans on this issue. They have not been able to find that yet.

So, the May 25 anniversary in which George Floyd's death, the year- long anniversary that Joe Biden had hoped a bill would come to his desk by, is simply not going to be met. And whether they can even get a deal this week before Senate recesses is another question.

There is some hope for another bipartisan bill to get done by the end of this week aimed at trying to make the U.S. more competitive with China technologically, including on microchips. That's a major bill that could actually get through by the end of this week, but a whole host of other hot-button issues that you listed, including whether to investigate what happened on January 6 by an outside commission, is bound to fail as soon as this week.

The Republicans have the votes to block it from even coming up for a debate -- guys.

CAMEROTA: OK. Oh, Manu, stay with us, if you would, because we want to bring in CNN political commentator Ana Navarro.

So, Ana, Manu just referred to these as hot button-issues. And a lot are. But infrastructure? That's the least hot-buttony, least controversial, least sexy issue in the world. And why can't they agree on that one?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm old enough to remember when, under the previous administration, there was an infrastructure week it seemed like every week, right? It became a running joke.

And it is -- it's the age-old question: Why is it that Republicans are Democrats can't agree on infrastructure, when bridges and potholes and sewer lines are not Republican or Democratic? They are in both. They are for all voters, for all Americans. We all use them.

[15:05:15]

Look, I think what Manu just laid out, what we all went through, we just -- Joe Biden didn't get the honeymoon period. He didn't even get it from his own party. And he's got such a slim margin in the House and a 50/50 Senate. And he's got to be on this constant tightrope, trying to not lose any Democrats, which is not easy, when you have got folks who are far left and folks who are more conservative Democrats or more moderate Democrats.

And at the same time, he's got to work on getting some Republicans on board for some of the procedural matters. And so it is a very difficult tightrope for him to walk. And it's looking pretty dangerous.

HILL: It's a tight row -- a tightrope -- I can't even say it.

As Ana points out, it is not a partisan issue when your roads are crumbling. But it's fascinating as we look at where we're at today, Manu. How much of an appetite is there among Republicans on Capitol Hill to come back to the table with that counteroffer and to try to find middle ground? Do they think it's worth it?

RAJU: I think that, talking to a lot of Republicans, there's just not much appetite to go anywhere near a trillion dollars to be spent on infrastructure.

Right now, the Republican offer is around $600 billion. There's talk among some Republicans about going up to as high as $800 billion. That's what Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, has signaled he's open to.

But when you talk to a wide variety of Republicans, getting anywhere near the $1 trillion mark makes a lot of them squeamish and makes -- signals that getting a deal, ultimately, with this White House will be difficult, unless the White House were to come down dramatically.

Even if it were to come down dramatically, there probably would still be large-scale Republican opposition from a number of members who don't want to go that far.

So, I mean, infrastructure -- everyone talks about roads and bridges and the like, but paying for infrastructure has always been the dividing line between the two parties, and has been so difficult to resolve in the years past, and is what is proving to be equally vexing at this point.

So, ultimately, the Democrats will have to make a decision here about whether to continue or whether to try to push it on a separate measure, go through the budget process, to try to circumvent Republicans, but doing that has its own problems on the Democratic ranks, getting them all on board.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's bring in Joe Kennedy. He's a CNN political commentator and a former Democratic congressman from Massachusetts.

Congressman, and great to have you. So, should Joe Biden and Democrats take the, as Manu just pointed out,

$600 billion to $800 billion Republican offer on infrastructure and see what they can get done with that, or should they go it alone? And how would they do that?

JOE KENNEDY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Alisyn, we need far more than $600 billion to $800 billion in infrastructure.

Look, this has been infrastructure week in Washington for literally a decade. This is something the country desperately needs that is broadly popular across the entire American public.

And trying to say that you're going to fix a $4 plus trillion infrastructure debt -- and that's just roads and bridges and hard infrastructure -- with $600 billion or $800 billion, that's not anywhere near enough.

What you're seeing play out is, as your guests already articulated, is the fact that Republicans cannot, they cannot give Joe Biden a big win on this. That validates his central reason for running. If they're going to give him a win on this, they (AUDIO GAP) Democrats to a midterm election that they think that they're going to win back the House and potentially win back the Senate.

They're not going to give him a big win. So they're trying to go small and inch up as far as they can to pull off Democrats, so they can't go back and do a reconciliation package afterwards. That's all this is that -- what you're seeing from Republicans.

You have seen Biden already cut his offer by $500 billion to try to get them to some place to actually meet this need. That's where we are in this process. And I think we Democrats still need to go big.

HILL: Ana, we do want to get your take on Marjorie Taylor Greene, her latest comments.

I'm not going to play them again. But they're being normalized by not being addressed. The silence is normalizing these comments. It's really starting to normalize this "I'm going to get in your face and get upset about things" kind of behavior, because it brings attention, as we know, which also can bring in some fund-raising dollars.

So, if we look at where we're at with a Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ana, I mean, what changes? It seems the only reaction that you get from the Republican Party in terms of being upset about comments are when Liz Cheney tells the truth about what happened in the election.

NAVARRO: Let me tell you, I'm so angry and I'm so disgusted by Marjorie "Loca" Greene that I even have a hard time responding to this.

If -- there's so many instances where Republican leadership, where Kevin McCarthy has shown enormous, unspeakable cowardice. But at no point has it been worse than this, because, this woman is minimizing the Holocaust.

[15:10:08]

How do you possibly -- how can you possibly, Kevin McCarthy, stay silent while this woman compares wearing a piece of cloth over your mouth to the gassing and slaughtering of over six million Jews during the Holocaust? How can you possibly stay silent and not be complicit to the lunacy and the conspiracy theories?

But it's also worse because it's happening during a time when we all know there is a huge spike on anti-Semitic hate crimes. And so silence is not acceptable. Silence is not leadership. Silence is the worst thing that can happen.

And it's also happening while Republicans are beating their chests, calling themselves a pro-Israel party, putting hashtags of Israel and Stars of David as avatars on their Twitter feeds and saying, we stand with Israel.

Well, if you stand with Israel, you have got to denounce, get up and find your backbone, among other parts, and denounce and condemn these horrific, unacceptable statements by this -- by this heap of steaming trash that has been elected to Congress from Georgia.

CAMEROTA: Congressman, before we go, I just want to ask you for your take on this.

We just had David Hogg on. He's one of the survivors of the Parkland school shooting. And he said, of course, Kevin McCarthy should condemn this at least, but what he'd prefer is for Kevin McCarthy to expel her from Congress.

How does she stay in Congress?

KENNEDY: She stays in Congress because she's empowered by these forces. She's empowered. She raises money off of it. She gets a higher media profile on it.

Look, her comments are disgusting. There's no place for them. She demeans the body. She demeans the party. She demeans democracy. But the fact is, in this moment, she's going to elevate her media profile and raise money off of it.

And so what do we do? No, you cannot, you cannot normalize these comments. We also can reject them, and not give her the oxygen that continues to feed this machine. And that's ultimately what has to happen.

We cannot -- you have to put her in that place and move on to actually addressing the challenges that our country faces, while dismissing and attacking rightfully the comments and comparisons that she makes that are disgusting and obviously get to the core of what fundamental decency is all about.

NAVARRO: I disagree with that, I'm sorry, but -- Congressman, but I just -- I don't think we can -- we have the option of not giving it oxygen and not talking about it. And I'm going to get mad and I'm going to get outraged every time she

says something racist and bigoted and ignorant and stupid and divisive and hostile to Americans and to other human beings. So ,I completely disagree with you.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: I think we cannot run out of outrage and anger that somebody with such lack of character is holding a seat in the U.S. Congress.

I plan to be pretty mad about it until, hopefully, she gets defeated in Georgia, and call it out every single time.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Congressman.

KENNEDY: And look (AUDIO GAP) about what I said.

I didn't say you don't just -- you don't address it. I just said you don't continue to feed it the oxygen that she then uses to raise millions of dollars.

NAVARRO: How do you not give it oxygen unless you're talking about it on TV? How do you not -- I mean, how do you talk about it on TV and address it without giving it media attention and oxygen, which is your word?

KENNEDY: Because--

NAVARRO: I'm using oxygen right now to talk about it. How do you not talk about it?

I wish I could ignore it, believe me.

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: Ma'am, ma'am, because you can address the substance of her comments that are disgusting, without basis, without merit, reject them, and then not spend hours a day debating them, where she is enabled to increase her media profile, increase her fund-raising list, and raise millions of dollars that are going to continue to support her, these activities and build her base.

That's exactly what she hoped to do.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: Nobody is debating them.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

NAVARRO: Every rational person is condemning them, except Kevin McCarthy.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

NAVARRO: And I'm not going to tired of calling on him to condemn them.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: I understand.

Guys, look, I'm sorry. We have to go with. Don't think we don't debate it every morning. I mean, this is the debate. Do you give -- do you talk about it and give it oxygen, or do you ignore it and hope that somehow it does -- isn't picked up on all sorts of other outlets?

But it's a problem. It's a problem any way you slice it.

And we really appreciate the conversation from both of you. Ana Navarro, Joe Kennedy, thank you. And, Manu, thank you very much.

HILL: Up next: new details about the theory that COVID-19 may have originated in a lab in Wuhan, China.

Plus: as many celebrities use their status to encourage vaccinations, LeBron James dodging a question about whether he got the shot.

CAMEROTA: And after a weekend that saw more than a dozen mass shootings in the United States, we speak to the mother of a gun violence survivor who also spoke at the Democratic National Convention, her take on the stalemate on gun violence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:19:35]

CAMEROTA: As of today, nine states have met President Biden's goal of getting 70 percent of their adults at least partially vaccinated by the Fourth of July. And half of all U.S. states have fully vaccinated at least half of their adult populations.

HILL: Also today, we're learning more about the possible origins of COVID-19, a U.S. intelligence report revealing several scientists at a lab in Wuhan, China, were hospitalized as early as November 2019 with an unknown illness.

[15:20:03]

Dr. Ali Khan is dean at the University of Nebraska Medical Center's College of Public Health.

Always good to have you with us.

There are so many questions today about the origins of COVID-19. And we also heard today from former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, who said, look, at this point, there are growing questions, maybe there is something more to this.

What should we take away from these latest revelations?

DR. ALI KHAN, FORMER CDC OFFICIAL: Thank you very much. So, I have really been learning to embrace complexity and uncertainty

about these issues. Your last segment was all about conspiracy theories, or I'd like to say misinformation. And this intelligence report comes from the same group that gave us the China virus.

That said, of course, a lab leak, either deliberate or accidental, is very possible. We have seen it in the United States when the CDC has mailed out pathogenic influenza virus to another lab. We saw it with the deliberate release of the anthrax spores into the United States.

So it's absolutely possible, however, not usually with a novel pathogen. And, unfortunately, at this point, you're claiming that the Chinese government is deliberately hiding this. And without proof, it's -- you're really at a stalemate.

And I understand the distrust, right? So, the Chinese government, not the Chinese people, the Chinese government, has never been forthcoming in sharing samples and primary data. They have not -- in this specific lab that people are concerned about, they have not shared the -- sort of the e-mails and the log reports.

So I understand the distrust. But until we have concrete proof, we really are at a stalemate in what the origin of this virus may be. Most likely, everything points to it being natural in origin.

CAMEROTA: OK, we will wait until we get more information on that.

But, in the meantime, Dr. Khan, I want to ask you about how LeBron James responded when he was asked whether he's been vaccinated. So let me play that for everyone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: Anything I do on the floor is predicated to my family, for the majority, for 99.9 percent of that. So it's about the health and safety of my family. And that's what it came down to, me being available to my teammates on the floor, me taking care of my body.

QUESTION: Do you mind me asking if that -- if you're confirming that you did get the vaccine?

JAMES: It's not -- it's not a big deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He says it's not a big deal.

I mean, the way I hear that is that he probably hasn't been vaccinated, because, otherwise, he would say that he had been. And so, is it better if he hasn't been vaccinated, is it better for someone who is such a superstar like that and who so many people do look to as a role model, whether or not they should, to just not say, like he did, take a pass on that question?

Or what did you think when you heard that, Dr. Khan? KHAN: So, it's -- you're right, it's hard to know ,whether when he

talked about protecting the safety of his family, it meant he immediately went out and got vaccinated, because that's how you protect the safety of yourself and your family, or if there were some other concerns that he didn't get vaccinated.

But you're spot on. It would be ideal if people, superstars like him sort of shared the message that the vaccine is very safe and very effective. And now we have had over one billion people vaccinated. So we can say that with confidence that these vaccines are safe and effective.

HILL: In terms of messaging, quickly, what we're seeing in a number of states, all these different incentives, whether it be your chance at a million dollars or a free beer.

I mean, we have been hearing from experts from the beginning we needed better incentive for a lot of Americans to roll up their sleeves. Is this the right way to go, especially at this point, when vaccinations are slowing down?

KHAN: I love the incentives.

(LAUGHTER)

KHAN: So, I think we need a combination of good information and good incentives.

So, I'm a public health person. And every -- I worry about every death. There's no expendable people. We still have 500 deaths a day in the United States. Countries that have markedly higher vaccination than us like Israel have one-fifth to one-tenth of the deaths.

So I'd like to drive that 500-a-day preventable deaths down to 50. So, yes, anything we can do to increase vaccination, we should be doing it.

CAMEROTA: What I heard there was Dr. Khan saying, I love a cold beer.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: But then he said incentive, so--

KHAN: I thought it was the Krispy Kreme, Alisyn, donuts.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Yes. That is a mixed message in terms of health, I would say.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: But, Dr. Ali Khan, thank you very much, as always.

HILL: I love a winning lotto ticket.

KHAN: Always a pleasure.

CAMEROTA: I like that too.

(LAUGHTER)

KHAN: Thank you both.

CAMEROTA: All right. You too.

OK, so next, we are live in Minneapolis, as the city is set to mark one year since George Floyd's death, and as legislation stalls on police and gun reform on Capitol Hill.

[15:25:00]

So, we will speak to the mother of a gun violence survivor who is fighting to change all of that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Tomorrow, President Biden will host the family of George Floyd at the White House, marking the one-year anniversary of his death.

Democrats had hoped they could pay tribute to Floyd in another way tomorrow with the signing of the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. Among other actions, it would set up a national registry of police misconduct.