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Search Continues for Survivors; Families Hoping for Miracles; Maggie Castro is Interviewed about Rescue Operations; Engineers Raised Concerns Years before Collapse; Joe Hernandez is Interviewed about the Collapse. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 28, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:18]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. So glad you're with me. I'm Poppy Harlow. Jim has the day off.

And this morning, family members are waiting, still holding out hope and praying for a miracle. The huge search and rescue operations in Florida are on their fifth day. One hundred and fifty-two people are still unaccounted for since the collapse of Champlain Tower South early Thursday morning. Among the missing, people from at least nine countries and from multiple faith communities. Tragically, nine people are now confirmed dead. Eight of the victims have been identified.

A rescue team from Israel arrived on site over the weekend. They are helping local crews who have been working around the clock. A help team from Mexico is also expected to arrive today.

There are two significant positive developments in the last 24 hours that should help with search and rescue. A deep-rooted fire has been contained and the weather is now more favorable for the search and rescue operation.

This all helps crews as they carve out a giant trench, searching for missing residence.

Also this morning we're learning new details about this 2018 engineering report that warned that this building had, quote, major structural damage. Much more on that report in a moment.

Let's begin, though, with my colleague, Rosa Flores. She joins us in Surfside.

Rosa, good morning to you.

Can we begin with where we are on the search and rescue operations this morning? ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, I talked to the fire

chief yesterday. He says that there's about 400 personnel that are dedicated to search and rescue. At any point in time, there's about 200 of them that are actually on the site. They are using a grid pattern to search and look for signs of life.

A very important detail that the fire chief shared with us is more details about this trench that was built, not just to get to that fire that you just talked about, but also to look for signs of life.

This trench, according to officials here, was 40 feet deep. So imagine -- it's about three stories deep. It's about 20 feet wide and also 125 feet long. Imagine a section of a pancake sliced off that allows you to see all of the layers of this collapse. And so, Poppy, unfortunately what the fire chief told me yesterday is that they didn't find very many voids. And, of course, they were looking for voids because voids is where life can be in a situation like this.

HARLOW: Yes.

FLORES: Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes. Right. Of course.

And, Rosa, adding to all of the grief and agony and questions of how could this happen is what we learned over the weekend, and that is that a consulting firm was actually brought in by the building to take a look at the structure and had severe warnings about eroding concrete, severe -- you know, concerns about stability, concerns about the area around and underneath the pool.

Can you walk us through the most critical parts that have 2018 report and then also what the building did with what they were told?

FLORES: Yes, this is so critical, Poppy, because it raises so many questions about who knew what when and what was done or wasn't done about this.

Here is what was in that report.

It was issued in October of 2018. It showed that there were -- that there was major structural damage to this building. Some of the descriptions include cracking of the concrete in the pool area, in the garage. And some major structural damage, especially when you're talking about the waterproofing. It says that one of the main issues was that the waterproofing was beyond its use useful life.

And I want to read you a part of this report because it's really going to give you an idea of what we're talking about here. I'm going to quote. It says, quote, the waterproofing below the deck and entrance drive, as well as all of the planter waterproofing is beyond its useful life and therefore must be completely removed and replaced. The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas. And here's the key, failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially. Poppy, that last sentence says so much because it says that if you

don't fix it very quickly, the deterioration will have exponential impact. And, of course, here we are, three years later, and there's a collapsed building.

[09:05:01]

HARLOW: But, Rosa, are you getting -- are you getting any answers on the ground as to why because near future is not three years. And as I understand it, they were preparing to make these repairs. But three years is a long time even with the delays from COVID.

FLORES: You know, you're absolutely right. And these are some of the questions that we're asking city officials.

The mayor that is currently on scene right now says that he wasn't there at that point in time. The official, we're learning, that was the inspection official at that point in time is now in another city. So we're asking a lot of questions here on the ground, Poppy, to get better clarity about what was done at the time.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Rosa Flores, thank you for your reporting throughout on this. We appreciate it very much.

Well, dozens of family members are obviously increasingly frustrated over what they say has been a lack of updates. Some loved ones were taken by bus from the reunification center to the collapsed site on Sunday.

And our Nick Valencia is with me now.

I mean, Nick, they -- they're -- they're at least getting to make the choice of if they want to go see the site. And some have chosen to do so.

You've been speaking with these families day in and day out since -- since Friday. What is the source of most of their frustration?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they feel that the briefings have been too sparse. Though if you ask the first responders, they are doing as much as they can with the availability that they have.

You know, part of this, you know, is not just managing the rescue, it's also managing the emotions of the family and friends.

We invited some of the family of those unaccounted for. They declined because they're just not in the emotional state.

But we are joined now about Maggie Castro with Miami-Dade Fire and Rescue.

Thank you so much. We're very grateful for you time. We know you're really busy. Give us a quick update here if you can about the latest in this rescue mission. MAGGIE CASTRO, MIAMI-DADE FIRE AND RESCUE: Well, so far the -- there

really isn't much more to report than what we've been reporting lately. We're still in a rescue mission. We're still working around the clock. We're still attempting to find void spaces. We know that time is of the essence and we know that time is going by.

So, we're still working in a rescue mode but, as you can imagine, we're starting to understand that it's going to be less likely that we're going to be finding survivors.

VALENCIA: It does look grim with every hour and every day that goes by.

We saw video this weekend from a briefing that was kind of confrontational. You know, family members, at this point, it seems are looking for people to blame. How do you manage that? and what are you hearing from families right now as sort -- as to the source of their frustration?

CASTRO: The source of their frustration is plainly obvious a few blocks down the street. They -- and, as you said, they're looking for someone to blame. There is no one that they can blame at this point. And so the emotions have to go somewhere. And we understand that. And we've asked the families that if you need to vent, you vent at us.

VALENCIA: And just tell me with a few second I have left, you took families to the site yesterday. What did that do for those that were looking for answers and looking for more?

CASTRO: I truly believe being there with every group that went that it has brought a lot of -- a lot of closure for families, it has brought a lot of sense of understanding and a lot of sense of, OK, I see what these rescuers are doing and I did notice the change in the afternoon briefing with the family. There's a lot more people that are thank yous and not, why aren't you doing more?

VALENCIA: Well, we know you're doing so much. We know you're doing what you can. Thank you so much, Maggie, for joining us with CNN.

The range of emotion not just felt by those that are looking for answers, but also by these first responders who are working day after day, coming up empty handed.

Nine victims have been identified. And with respect to those diseased, we'd like to read those names here out loud.

Leon Oliwkowicz, 80 years old.

Luis Bermudez, 26.

Anna Ortiz, 46.

Christina Beatriz Elvira, 74.

Stacie Fang, 54 years old.

Antonio Lozano was 83.

Gladys Lozano, 79.

And Manuel LaFont, one of those identified over the weekend, 54.

I spoke to Manuel LaFont's ex-wife who, up until Sunday afternoon, just a few hours before she received the grim news, had hope in her gut that he was still alive.

You know, right now, all these families have is each other right now as the hours tick by and there's no signs of life.

Poppy. Jim.

HARLOW: Nick Valencia, thank you. I'm so glad that you read off all of those names. And we will continue to bring names as soon as we have them.

Let's go to my colleague John Berman. He's in Surfside this morning.

John, I mean you've been there. You were just broadcasting live from there for the last three hours. What's your takeaway this morning?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I think it's a community that is undergoing a sense of trauma right now, Poppy. Not unlike what those of us who were in New York City after 9/11 went through where there is a literal and metaphorical hole in their lives right now as they continue to try to go about their business.

I had a chance to speak to 15-year-old Nina LeTroadec, who lived in the Champlain Towers East Building, still does live in Champlain Towers East.

[09:10:06]

And she saw the South Tower fall down, crumble. And now, keep in mind, I'm going to play what she said to me here. Keep in mind, she has a good friend, a dear friend who lived in that tower. She explains to me what she saw.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NINA LETROADEC, WITNESSED BUILDING COLLAPSE FROM HER BEDROOM: It was madness there. There was people screaming, crying, all types of emotions there.

Every night I go to sleep thinking, is my building going to collapse? Like, I don't think anyone should have to go to sleep thinking that.

JIMMY PATRONIS, FLORIDA CFO AND STATE FIRE MARSHAL: All I know is -- is debating the engineering report right now is not going to save lives as much as me putting 100 percent of my energy and effort into supporting these men and women. But, oh, it will be a Greek tragedy if they find that this could have all been avoided. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now the first soundbyte there was from Nina LeTroadec, who saw the building come down and tells me she's still having a hard time sleeping. She has moved back into her home in the Champlain Towers East building, trying to move on the best she can.

Her friend, Devin (ph), who lived in the South Tower, did survive, along with her mother, but the father is still unaccounted for at this point.

The second man you heard from there, Jimmy Petronis, who is the Florida fire marshal, and he's deeply involved with the search and rescue operation. He talked about the trench that they've dug through and how the search continues.

And I had a chance to ask him -- I was asking him about this new reporting this morning about concerns as far back as 2018 about the structural integrity of the building itself, the cracks that were seen in the inspection. And you told (ph) him, his focus is on the now. But if it turns out that there was something that was missed, it would be a Greek tragedy, he said.

Look, there are engineers who spoke to "The New York Times" and "Miami Herald" who say they've looked at the video, they've watched the video this morning and it seems to them that the collapse began at the lower levels, that it fell in on itself, that it began at the bottom, as it were. That explains the pancaking. That's just from engineers who are looking at the pictures, Poppy. But that would line up with the idea that maybe the cracks underneath, the deterioration underneath had something to do with the tragedy that took place.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Oh, they all deserves answers and, unfortunately, many of those answers aren't going to come for a while.

John, thank you for bringing us all of that as you continue your reporting down there.

And to John's point, we're going to speak with a structural engineer ahead, what he makes of this report about the deterioration in this building years ago and what they identified.

Also, lawyers for the Trump Organization will meet today with attorneys in the Manhattan DA's office trying to convince them not to pursue criminal charges. Will it work?

And former Attorney General Bill Barr says in a newly released book excerpt that he suspected then President Trump's claims of widespread election fraud were all, in his words, quote, BS, but that he launched unofficial inquiries into some of them anyways. Why?

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[09:17:24] HARLOW: The critical question remains this morning, what could have caused the deadly collapse of Champlain Tower South in Surfside, Florida. There is new reporting from "The New York Times" that says the focus is on the lowest part of the building and experts say an initial failure possibly in or below the underground parking garage could have been what set off the collapse. And a resurfaced 2018 report of the building has revealed alarming concerns of major structural damage to the concrete slabs below the building's pool deck.

Joining me now is internationally recognized engineer Matthys Levy. He is the co-author of "Why Buildings Fall Down: How Structures Fail." And that is the critical question this morning.

Matthys, thank you for being with me.

MATTHYS LEVY, RETIRED STRUCTURAL ENGINEER: Yes. Thank you.

HARLOW: You were on CNN this weekend with my colleague, Michael Smerconish, and you raised real concerns about the slab, basically, underneath the pool deck that continues on. That was your initial concern. Now, seeing what you've seen from this 2018 report, how many questions does that add to you about that part of the structure?

LEVY: Well, let me (INAUDIBLE) two thing.

One is the video of the collapse itself, which is very revealing because it's clear that the collapse started at the bottom.

And the second is reports -- there were reports also of deterioration of the water cooling in the slab of the pool deck. And those two things taken together, and also the 2018 (ph) reports of the condition of the structure, those things, when you begin to put them all together, seem to indicate there's a possibility that there was a failure of maybe a column at the intersection of the deck and the building.

HARLOW: But aren't buildings, especially 40 years old, which is not that old, built with a number of redundancies where even if a column like that failed, there would be fail safe mechanisms?

LEVY: Well, in a -- in this kind of a structure, the redundancy is not as strong as in other structures. The -- if you look at the way the failure occurred, the failure really occurred to the east portion of the structure and the west portion of the structure stood up because there was a concrete wall behind the elevator shaft that prevented that portion from collapsing in any way.

[09:20:04]

HARLOW: The -- part of this 2018 report that struck me as it pertains to your initial concerns is that it says the waterproofing below the pool deck was failing and causing major structural damage. What does that mean, the waterproofing? Meaning, is that something that if it were addressed could have been fixed in the last three years? LEVY: Well, (INAUDIBLE). The delay of three years in attacking these

problems really is unconscionable. The fact is that the waterproofing allows -- the failure of the waterproofing allows water, especially salt water, to get into the concrete. And salt water, when it gets into concrete, begins to attack the reinforceing steel and cause it to rust and then cracking the concrete itself.

But what I -- what I noticed is that in the 2018 report, one of the things is that they show a column with a reinforcing, rusting and pushing out some of the concrete. Now that's certainly something that should have been looked at and -- immediately and been fixed.

HARLOW: Matthys, there is a sister building and there are obvious concerns about it right now because -- it's called Champlain Towers North. And it was built, according to "The New York Times," by the same developer with the same design just one year apart. And one -- I think it's safe to assume the same or very similar materials given all of that. It is due to get its 40-year mandatory inspection next year.

Should people be living in that building right now?

LEVY: Well, the -- the first thing, that instead of waiting until next year, they should be scheduling the inspection this year, immediately, to make certain -- especially in the area of the garage adjacent to the deck. That's the area that's very susceptible.

HARLOW: Thank you, Matthys Levy, for all of your expertise and being with us as we try to get answers for these families.

LEVY: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, even as we enter day five of search and rescue, authorities are not giving up hope. Listen to this from Andy Alvarez, the deputy incident commander with Miami-Dade Fire and Rescue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you been able to find any -- any pockets, any air pockets, anything like that?

ANDY ALVAREZ, DEPUTY INCIDENT COMMANDER, MIAMI-DADE FIRE RESCUE: We have. We have found voids within the building that we've been able to penetrate, mostly coming, obviously, from underneath the building through the basement of what used to be the garage. And we have been able to tunnel through the building.

But, you know, again, this is a frantic search to continue to see that hope, that miracle, to see who we can bring out of this building alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let me bring in Joe Hernandez, he is a former member of the Florida task force to the team currently working inside of this collapse and also very experienced firefighter and paramedic.

Joe, thank you for being here.

I assume that would mean that you're -- you have friends and former colleagues who are in the rubble trying to find survivors right now?

JOE HERNANDEZ, FORMER MEDICAL OPERATIONS CHIEF, FEMA URBAN SEARCH AND RESCUE: Correct. Absolutely. As they start another disaster, tough day, those solid responders are in there working 24/7, as hard as they can, even through, ironically, this PTSD Awareness Month, they are locating and trying to find these victims.

HARLOW: Have you talked to any of them? I wonder what they've told you.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, I've talked to many of them. Before I left the area last night, and I'll go back again today and talk to many of them. Ironically, that weren't able to deploy, being affected also by that tragedy.

They're doing well. They are now starting to find a lot of voids underneath. The heavy machinery is helping. The trench that was dug along the side is allowing them to reach a lower level of those what appear to be pancakes from the top, but they happen to have a lot of void spaces in the bottom. A lot of the canines are getting some work. And they're very hopeful right now, today and tomorrow, we're praying that they should be very good days.

HARLOW: I think that -- what you just said is a hopeful sign. But we just heard from our Rosa Flores at the top of the show that another Miami-Dade fire official told her that -- that this trench, right, that is showing about, you know, 40 different layers --

HERNANDEZ: Sure.

HARLOW: Did not reveal as many voids as they had hoped for.

I guess my question to you is, can two things be true at the same time? That he is not seeing them in certain areas but your former colleagues are in others?

HERNANDEZ: It depends on which side of the pile that they're entering from. Of course they divide that pile into four sections. And they're able to have different team accessing those areas. So one team might not have the access or ability to enter those void spaces as another team is. And so they're working as hard as they can.

[09:25:02]

The machinery also is being spread from one side of the pile to the other and that, again, helping to open up those voids. And at that time that maybe he made that comment wasn't on that side of the pile where he could see the pile being raised and void spaces being crimped up so that they can get some team members, some canines, highly trained canines that are especially trained for finding live victims inside there.

HARLOW: Could -- can -- can -- and I wonder if you've heard from your former colleagues, are they able to access some of these voids from the bottom, meaning through different entrances through the parking garage going up rather than coming from the top down?

HERNANDEZ: Correct. That's one of the methods they also did during the Haiti earthquake and the Caribbean markets, trying to breach from underneath and making multiple entrances, as many as they can, as many entrances and egresses as they can find, they're going to try and find those today.

HARLOW: How -- OK, no, being realistic about the conditions, there was this huge fire, series of fires that are now contained, thank goodness. But also voids, as you mention. And we've seen miracles before. Remember the minors, you know, remember the boys trapped in that cave in Thailand. I mean that was 17 days. How long -- and they were different again. Like, food was being, you know, brought to some. I understand all of that. But I'm just wondering how long people can survive in your estimate in conditions like this?

HERNANDEZ: You know, the irony is the conditions happen to be in homes. So there were kitchens, there's food, there's possibly broken water pipes. It rained. Water collected. Water from the fire trucks. So, you know, a lot of little things that change and people think that they may be a hindrance could also be a life-saving event. Even that refrigerator lying on its side could have kept a large, concrete slab from crushing someone, at the same time allowing them some type of nourishment for that short period of time until rescue.

HARLOW: I did not think about that. I think we all need your optimism this morning.

Joe Hernandez.

HERNANDEZ: Of course. Thank you.

HARLOW: We're grateful. Thank you.

HERNANDEZ: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, switching gears here. Soon, lawyers from the Trump Organization will meet with prosecutors in the Manhattan DA's office as the Trump Org faces possible criminal charges. What are they hoping to get out of this meeting? We'll explain.

Also, moments away from the opening bell this Monday morning. On Wall Street, futures kind of relatively flat. A little bit higher this morning. The S&P 500 notched a fresh all-time high Friday. Investors focusing on a key inflation measure, showing that prices continue to rise in May. That is a bit of a concern for investors.

Also keeping a close eye on the jobs report. It comes out at the end of the week.

We're on top of it.

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