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Massive Cyberattack Hits Hundreds Of Businesses; Exxon Lobbyist Admits Fighting Climate Legislation In Sting Video; Tropical Storm Watches Issued For Parts Of Florida; Police Standoff with Heavily Armed Men Ends with 11 Arrests; U.S. Withdrawal From Afghanistan In The Final Stages; Future of Afghan Women Uncertain As Taliban Threat Looms; Pandemic, Heat Have Many People Sticking Close To Home; Branson, Bezos, Musk Bet Big On Commercial Space Industry. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 03, 2021 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[20:00:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The standoff between police and heavily armed men ends with 11 in custody.

COL. CHRISTOPHER MASON, MASSACHUSETTS POLICE: You can imagine 11 armed individuals standing with long guns slung on an interstate highway at 2:00 in the morning, certainly raises concerns.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as tomorrow the State of Florida will demolish the rest of the collapse building in Surfside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is structurally unsound. The fear was that the hurricane may take the building down for us and take it down in the wrong direction on top of the pile where we have victims.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This pandemic is certainly not over, for people who are unvaccinated their risk is very high right now. This Delta variant that's more contagious than any of the other variants that we've seen thus far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this holiday weekend. It's great to have you along.

We want to start tonight with cyber and what could be one of the most significant cyber attacks yet, a ransomware attack has paralyzed the networks of at least 200 U.S. companies. Cybersecurity experts are again blaming Russians just weeks after President Biden told Vladimir Putin to back off.

Tonight Biden is weighing in telling reporters we're not certain who's behind the attacks adding the initial thinking is it, was not the Russian government.

Now we do know for a fact that this was the same gang of cyber criminals believed to operate out of Eastern Europe or Russia that hit the meat supplier JBS Foods in the spring. My next guest is one of the country's top cybersecurity experts. He says, this is the most significant ransomware attack we've ever seen.

Joining me now is Dmitri Alperovitch. He is the co-founder and former Chief Technology Officer of CrowdStrike and is now Chairman of the Silverado Policy Accelerator focusing on geopolitical cybersecurity.

So great to have you on, Dimitri, you said this may be the most significant ransomware attack we've seen yet, why?

DMITRI ALPEROVITCH, CYBERSECURITY EXPERT: That's right. We've already seen over 1000 organizations globally confirmed to have been victimized, it will probably be looking at many more once the final count is done. It's going to be largely small organization, not the fortune 500 companies have been customers of this company called Cassia, who was compromised in this particular attack and whose customers were impacted, but will likely be hospitals, insurance brokers, car dealerships, payment processors, all types of small businesses from across the country in the world.

BROWN: So just help us understand in a practical sense, how that could impact an everyday American?

ALPEROVITCH: Well, all you have to do is look at what's happening in Sweden right now, one of their major grocery chains has shut down 800 stores, because their payment processor that runs their point of sale terminals has been hit by this ransomware attack. So people can't go into the grocery stores and buy food.

Now we haven't seen that here at the moment with grocery stores. But you can find that your car dealers not able to sell your car because their systems are down, you may be able to find the hospital systems are not able to take in patients because they can't access medical records. This can have very widespread repercussions throughout the country.

BROWN: Yeah, that's frightening to think, you know, what can happen to hospitals and emergency situations and so forth. We know where we believe this attack was launched by the same group that attacked the meat supplier JBS last spring, that group is believed to operate out of Russia or Eastern Europe. Why do you think the President is saying he isn't sure who was behind it?

ALPEROVITCH: Well, when you're the president of United States, you want to make sure that every I's dotted every T's crossed before you formally accuse someone. But we do know that this group, it's called REvil, great marketing on their behalf has members that are operating out of Russia.

There's no indication, by the way, the President is absolutely correct that the Russian government is involved with this group. But we know that the Russian law enforcement has traditionally not paid much attention to this criminals, have allowed them to operate freely from within Russia. And that's exactly the type of thing that President Biden asked President Putin to stop back in Geneva last month.

BROWN: Right. And here's what the Secretary of State Antony Blinken told an Italian newspaper last month. He said, what we've said to Russia is that no responsible state or any of us can be in the business of harboring or giving refuge to criminal enterprises engaged in cyber attacks like ransomware if Russia is going to continue to take reckless or aggressive actions, we'll respond.

So how should the U.S. respond? I mean, what kind of response capabilities do you think the U.S. is weighing if in fact, Russia was aware if this or played more of a role?

[20:05:02]

ALPEROVITCH: Well, the important thing to understand here is that there's a long term game but there's also short term need here. You've got 1000 organization, maybe many more, whose data is locked up right now. And there's one group operating, we believe out of Russia that has the keys to unlock it.

So what the president needs to do is demand from President Putin to immediately arrest those individuals and turn over the encryption keys so we can unlock these data and restore these businesses, that needs to happen now, then we can start having a conversation with Vladimir Putin about what to do about all these cyber criminals are operating within Russia, and how we need to be dealing with it. But the focus right now needs to be on restoration of these organizations. And Vladimir Putin can do that by pressuring these criminals.

BROWN: All right, Dmitri Alperovitch, thank you for coming on. We appreciate it.

ALPEROVITCH: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, deadly heat and wildfires out west tropical storm also taking aim at Florida. It is very clear here that extreme weather is going to be a major story this summer. But one U.S. Corporation ExxonMobil has been actively working to squash climate change legislation in Washington. Look at this stunning video obtained by Greenpeace UK. It shows ExxonMobil lobbyists Keith McCoy admitting what his company is up to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEITH MCCOY, EXXON LOBBYIST: Did we aggressively fight against some of the science? Yes. Did we join some of these shadow groups to work against some of the early efforts? Yes, that's true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weird joins me now with more. Bill, Keith McCoy thought he was in a job interview with headhunter when he spilled the beans including the fact that ExxonMobil publicly supports a carbon tax because it looks good as they work to sabotage it behind the scenes. How is that going over in the climate policy community?

BILL WEIR, CNN CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, it's a bombshell as you can imagine. We've never seen lobbyists of this level. These are veteran high-level lobbyists who've been on the hill for years basically give away the recipe. And you can see by Exxon's own financial disclosures that they spend more on advertising their innovative, you know, push the green energy than they do on actually investing in these things and that they're still drilling like mad.

But that I think the biggest newsworthy item out of it is him saying exactly what you said, they don't think that carbon tax of any sort has a chance in hell. So it gives them a safe talking point to say they're behind it because they want to be on the same team, the rest of the world while losing social license. And that's the thing here, at some point we stopped burning whales for light because they lost their social license and the same with lead paint and asbestosis and they're not going down without a fight.

BROWN: And that interview McCoy goes on to them 11 U.S. senators, he says, are crucial to supporting Exxon's goals. And he singles out West Virginia's Joe Manchin. He says he talks to mansion on a weekly basis and clearly sees him as a key figure and kneecapping Biden's climate change proposals. We -- there was a no comment from Manchin's office. Of course, we reached out to his office but if it's true, how disturbing is this?

WEIR: Well, Joe Manchin once shot a hole in a climate legislation of Barack Obama era in a campaign ad. So, there's no secret about how he feels about, you know, for coming from a cold state. But they also list and other Democrats like Jon Tester, and Chris Coons, and Mark Kelly out in Arizona as sort of their big fish that they like to reel in. There's no allegations of illegality here. And their campaign donations that are public are mind blowing. But it doesn't look great, especially as that infrastructure bill was stripped of so much of the climate, tackling infrastructure they had proposed.

BROWN: And this is, of course, all happening amid record heat waves in this country. I mean, we were seeing triple digit temperatures in places like Portland and Seattle that are usually much cooler this time of year. Dozens have died from the heat. There's this town in Canada about 195 miles east of Vancouver. That town caught fire more than 1000 people had to flee. What is causing this extreme heat in the Pacific Northwest and are we prepared for it to get worse?

WEIR: Yeah, I mean, the latter question is the bigger one. You know, if you were looking for a climate haven, at the beginning of June, you would have picked a place like Luton, British Columbia, mild temperatures, plenty of fresh water they are on the edge of a temperate rain forest. They set a Canadian record then broke it the next day then shattered it the third day.

The records higher than the all-time record in South America and the disturbing thing is that, there's newer papers on this because we're just figuring this out, is these big wave systems just sit and squat over communities like it's happening in the Pacific Northwest now, like it did in the winter in Texas that cold boulder just set and froze the state there. And so yeah preparation and adaptation maybe you've increasingly in a conversation.

[20:10:23]

BROWN: I have to get your thoughts before we let you go on that crazy fire in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico, this underwater gas leak near an oil rig that sparks a fire. Look at this even though it's not a climate event, it's just emblematic of what we'll put up with to get fossil fuel.

WEIR: Yeah, and it goes with the lead story we talked about the Exxon sting. This again is about social license and what people are aware of in the hidden costs of our fuels that's -- that is the result of a punctured pipeline owned by the Mexican national oil company. They say they think they have a control there but we're setting our oceans on fire using fuels that burn and the sciences to stop that as soon as possible. Everything is connected that we're talking about.

BROWN: All right, Bill Weir, as always, thanks so much and hope you have a great holiday.

WEIR: You too, Pam. Thanks.

WILLIAMS: Well, still ahead this hour, Heather Barr at Human Rights Watch calls the U.S. Afghan withdrawal a complete catastrophe, arising decades of progress for women's rights and she joins me live coming up.

And then Richard Branson gets ready to launch to the edge of space. I'm going to ask a former NASA astronaut what this moment means for the future of commercial space travel.

But first, the search for victims of the Florida building collapse is put on hold as officials say they will demolish the rest of the building as soon as tomorrow. CNN's is Brian Todd is live in Surfside with the very latest coming up. We'll be right back.

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[20:15:59]

BROWN: Minutes ago, the National Hurricane Center came out with an update on Tropical Storm Elsa, parts of Florida are now under a tropical storm watch as Elsa approaches. That storm is the reason why officials and Surfside have paused search and rescue operations as they get set to demolish the rest of the collapse building.

CNN's Brian Todd is in Surfside with more on that. But we begin with CNN Meteorologist Gene Norman. So what's the latest on Elsa, Gene?

GENE NORMAN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Pamela, we just did get that newest update. And the one thing that sticks out to me is that the storm is not moving as fast as it was earlier. Forward speed is 28 miles an hour, the maximum speed of the storm itself is a 70 mile an hour storm.

So it's still a tropical storm. And it still does kind of ragged, not really well organized. Hurricane hunters are on their way now to check it out to see what's happening and to define what we're going to see what the new track that'll come out at 11 o'clock.

But it's passing just to the south of Haiti right now on its way to Jamaica, and Cuba. And that'll be important as to whether or not it will perhaps intensify, because it's kind of get over that mountainous terrain of Cuba before we can see what it might do if it gets in the Gulf of Mexico.

Again, as you mentioned, tropical storm watches are in effect for the Florida, for the Key West area of southern Florida until for the next couple of days rather. And as you see from the newest track, well, it has to get over the mountainous terrain of Cuba, and get into the Gulf to possibly strengthen again, but we're going to be talking about Elsa through the end of this week, because it's going to head up the East Coast once it impacts Florida.

So what are those Florida impacts? Let's kind of go over them real quickly here. We're looking at heavy rain, isolated tornadoes, and possibly storm surge where the storm gets close to the land somewhere between Monday and Wednesday.

Now, when we will start to see those hurricane or other tropical storm force winds? Sometime late Sunday into early Monday in southern Florida, so that's the key that we'll be looking at. And the rainfall, well, it's going to be heaviest on the Gulf side of the Florida peninsula.

But I want to leave you with these three facts. Elsa is the earliest ever fifth named storm in the Atlantic. And it beat last year's record holder. Edouard which occurred on Independence Day of 2020 and it intensified 35 miles an hour in 12 hours, that rapid intensification is something we're seeing more and more. Right now Miami and Surfside not in the cone but that could change it.

BROWN: Those are some interesting facts there. Thanks so much, Gene Norman.

I want to go down to Brian Todd in Surfside. So, we just got this update. We learned that the search efforts there have been paused. What more can you tell us, Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, they were paused as of about a little over four hours ago at four o'clock Eastern Time, the rescue efforts were paused as they prepared for the demolition of the remainder of the Champlain Towers South complex, that part of the building that did not collapse, but still remains so much of a danger and that's really, you know, what is prompting all of this.

It's clear that officials just want to bring that part of the building down as soon as possible. It is simply too dangerous really to operate near right now. Here was Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAYOR DANIELLA LEVINE CAVA (D), MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA: Search and rescue does have to pause temporarily while the demolition preparation is underway and that there is threat to the standing building that is posed to the first responders as we've told you, we will begin the search and rescue once again on any sections of the pile that are safe to access as soon as we are cleared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: And the mayor did not give a specific timeline for when they would demolish the building but she did say that they want to get it done before that tropical storm that Gene was talking about, Tropical Storm Elsa gets to this area, if it does get to this areas, you've heard Gene say it is kind of tracking to the west. Now it's not clear whether it's going to have a lot of impact on Surfside or that area or not, even if it has minimal impact though, Pamela, you can bet that these people are really worried about, you know, just debris and other remnants flying off that building if it remains standing so they are scrambling to get that building down before the storm comes.

[20:20:14]

The pause in preparation is kind of interesting, they gave a little bit of detail, they want to drill into some columns to prepare for the demolition. They haven't mentioned the specific techniques that they're going to use to bring the building down. But another key piece of information tonight, Pamela, and we press the mayor on this because there are buildings close to that building very close.

They say that none of those buildings they believe need to be evacuated for the demolition. So they've got some precision at work here. They've got a lot of very sophisticated equipment, sophisticated technology at work, and demolishing and the rest of that building. It is simply too dangerous to remain upright right now. And we got a view of that building from an elevated perch yesterday.

We could see the rubble. We could see everything fairly close. And it is really dangerous. They've got huge slabs of concrete and columns just hanging from that building. They could come down at any minute, really with little or no prompting. Pamela.

BROWN: And we're just listening to the mayor and that sound, and she is so calling it a search and rescue effort. It is now at a standstill, as we know, but what are officials saying about their hopes of finding anyone else in the rubble?

TODD: Well, they say they're not giving up hope. But, you know, you kind of pick up little, little items of tone in their voice, and things like that, where you kind of get to the realization that at some point, probably in the not too distant future, they are going to have to go from a search and rescue operation to a search and recovery operation.

You know, they have not been able to find anyone alive yet. They have not been able to find too many of what they call those voids that they look for, you know, those pockets of space pockets of air where people could survive. They haven't been able to find too many of those, Pamela, and that's been pretty discouraging. But again, they do maintain that as long as they are there tonight, even though with a pause, and when they bring the building down, they are going to resume the search and rescue. They will do that. They're not going to give up hope as long as they're doing that.

BROWN: OK, Brian Todd from Surfside Florida, just such so awful. And we just continue to think and pray for those families. I appreciate it, Brian.

The nine-hour standoff between Massachusetts police and a heavily armed group is over but authorities still aren't quite sure who they are. We're going to explain up next.

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[20:26:59]

BROWN: We are following new developments in Massachusetts. This morning 11 armed men wearing military-style uniforms were arrested following a nine-hour standoff. The Massachusetts State Patrol now says several of those men are refusing to provide police with their identification and that is delaying the booking process. CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. CHRISTOPHER MASON, MASSACHUSETTS POLICE: We were able to successfully resolve this situation through a combination of negotiation and some tactical maneuvers.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An hour's long standoff between heavily armed men and police on one of the nation's busiest interstates ended without incident as authorities took 11 people into custody. Still, many questions are left about what exactly was behind this potentially dangerous Saturday morning just north of Boston.

MASON: They wanted to be heard. They wanted to be a variety of, not demands, but requests that they just be allowed to leave the area, transit the area without any accountability. And at the end of the day, we couldn't accommodate that.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Overnight, a highway patrol car came upon two vehicles in the breakdown lane on I-95. Police say the heavily armed men wearing tactical gear were attempting to refuel one of their vehicles. After learning the men were armed but not carrying firearm licenses, the state trooper called for backup. Some of the men fled into nearby woods, the standoff began.

MASON: We are currently engaged with the subjects through our hostage negotiation team. We are talking with the subjects that some that are in the woods, some that are still at the vehicles in the breakdown lane where the original interaction occurred. And we are hopeful that we will be able to resolve this peacefully with them. We're committed to a negotiation with them having a conversation. MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Portions of I-95 were closed in both directions for several hours on a busy holiday weekend. Those in nearby homes were told to go into lockdown as police attempted to negotiate with the group.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know if you can see this but he's loading his gun right now.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: The armed group appears to have live streamed their side of the standoff online. It's unclear if the man filming the incident was one of the 11 arrested.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not anti-government. Our nation which our flag is right here has a treaty with your government.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: They appear to belong to a group called Rise of the Moors which seems to be connected with the Moorish sovereignty movement that believes among other things an 18th Century treaty between the U.S. and Morocco grants them special rights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone remain calm.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: In live streams from the highway, one member insisted they did not break laws and they did not intend to be hostile. Police said the men were passing through the state on their way to attend some sort of training operation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're abiding by the peaceful journey laws of the United States federal courts.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: But Massachusetts officials said the state's laws are clear.

MASON: They did not have gun license on them. First of all, Massachusetts does not allow the carrying of a loaded or unloaded firearm on an interstate highway such as this.

[20:30:00]

Imagine 11 armed individuals standing with long guns slung on an interstate highway at 2:00 in the morning certainly raises concerns.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The man eventually surrendered to police on site without incident, and authority seized a still undisclosed number of guns.

MASON: I can share with you that a number of firearms have been seized. I cannot share with you the exact number. The two vehicles that were at the scene are being towed from the scene. They will be processed pursuant to court authorized search warrant. And only then will we know the exact number of firearms that have been seized.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: The vital artery, that is I-95, was finally reopened to holiday travelers. But the investigation around the incident is ongoing. It's expected officials will look into this little-known group and their motivations. JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: The bunch of armed men are traveling in a car to do something and we don't know what that something is. So, that's where the investigation is going to go right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro reporting there.

Unless the U.S. withdraws from Afghanistan, the threat of the Taliban is still very much there. And among other dangers, women's rights are at risk. We're going to have more on that ahead.

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[20:35:34]

BROWN: The end of America's longest war is getting closer now that American troops deployed to Bagram Air Base have left Afghanistan. But the fight with the Taliban is not over, an intelligence source says that they could retake the country.

A U.S. official tells CNN that they are actively updating emergency activation evacuation plans for the embassy in Kabul amid concerns of potential violence. The American military withdrawal leaves many Afghans vulnerable, especially women. These are very real concerns that two decades of progress toward women's rights will be rolled back.

And just a reminder of what being female under Taliban rule means. Women are banned from leaving their homes without a male companion, no education, they're not allowed to work and must always be completely covered. And they have limited access to women's health care.

Heather Barr joins me now, she is the interim director of Women's Rights Division at Human Rights Watch. Heather, thanks for coming on the show. What concerns you most about America's military withdraw from Afghanistan?

HEATHER BARR, INTERIM DIRECTOR OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS DIVISION, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: This situation is so alarming for women and girls. And I think that we see that the Taliban has already made an enormous amount of progress just since the U.S. announced the withdrawal in April.

And as you've said, I mean, you've talked about how the Taliban ruled when they were in power last time. And the truth is, is that there's been very little change in their views on women's rights in the 20 years, since they lost power. There have been tiny incremental changes such as they say now that they accept that girls should be allowed to go to primary education.

But that's wildly unacceptable, of course, and we actually see on the ground that they don't even necessarily comply with that. So, this is a real return to a very, very dark time for Afghan women and girls.

BROWN: And what are Afghan women telling you? BARR: Well, what many of them are telling us is that they're trying to leave the country. You know, my colleagues and I are getting a lot of requests, as are all the organization's we work with from people who are desperately trying to figure out how to get asylum somewhere.

And I think that's one thing that countries haven't thought through, as they've sort of abruptly left with the U.S. and the U.S. as well is what impact is this going to have in terms of refugee flows, which of course are mostly in this region, but will reach Europe in the U.S. as well.

BROWN: The White House says since 2002, $787 million of aid have been spent for Afghan women and girls, the U.S. has pledged even more humanitarian aid as they exit. Are you concerned that financial assistance coming from the U.S. and its allies may drop off at some point?

BARR: I'm more than concerned. And the truth is that the concern is not about whether aid will drop, aid already has been dropping. So, we published a report about a month and a half ago that found that donor funding to the health sector had already fallen by 26 percent between 2013 and 2019. And that has already had a huge impact on women's access to healthcare.

And it's been cutting a lot of women off from healthcare. So, we're really concerned that now with the troops going, we're going to see an even more precipitous drop, and that a lot of the really essential services, like health care, like education, just won't exist anymore because over 75 percent of the Afghan government's budget comes from international donors like the United States.

BROWN: Wow. That's really, kind, of alarming. There has been progress, you've talked about it in the last 20 years. But where do women's rights still fall short in Afghanistan in your view?

BARR: So, there's been a huge amount of progress, there really has been, and that's because women and girls saw an opportunity after 2001 and took that opportunity to go to school, to go to work to take leadership positions.

But one of the things that's happening right now in this, sort of, environment of escalating insecurity is, there's been a real campaign of targeted attacks on civilians, including women and girls. You probably saw the news about the horrendous attack on girls' high school in Kabul several weeks back, where about 70 school girls killed.

[20:40:09]

And so, what we see is that women made this incredible progress. But those are the exact women who are now being targeted for murder.

BROWN: Heather Barr, thank you for coming on and sharing this with us. I think we should all be paying attention to what is going on in Afghanistan, to Afghan allies, to these women. Thank you so much for shedding the light on this. BARR: Thank you.

BROWN: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Up next, it is the battle of billionaires who will get to space first and couldn't help launch a new space race. Former astronaut Mike Massimino joins me next.

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[20:45:12]

BROWN: We have an update for you for a story that we brought you the last hour. JFK Airport in New York now says a water leak that force controllers to a secondary tower has been fixed. And those controllers are now back in the primary tower, so normal operations have resumed at the airport. Good news for those travelers.

And we want to go now to the West Coast of the United States and that brutal heatwave this weekend. Many people are choosing not to travel, instead sitting closer to home spending the July 4th holiday by the bull -- pool, rather, or at the beach.

Paul Vercammen is at Playa Del Rey Beach in L.A. and joins me now. So, how's it looking there, Paul?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, these people here are doing exactly what health officials and others advisors, enjoying a great day at the beach. And they are being imbalanced, so to speak, when it comes to illegal fireworks that because up and down the West Coast, there's a high fire danger. They're super concerned about this combination of drought and heat. You may have seen earlier this week that British Columbia bore the brunt of it, 121 degrees Fahrenheit in the tiny village of Lytton, and it was obliterated 90 percent by wildfire.

Then back here in Southern California, Los Angeles, a lot of concerns over illegal fireworks. They've had their problems here in the past. And just this week, they confiscated 5,000 pounds of illegal fireworks, they put them in one of those bomb squad vans, and somehow it blew up.

So, let's come back out here live. This is what they want you to do. There's a fire pit back here. It's ringed by cement. You're allowed to burn things in there and to celebrate. As 4-year-old (INAUDIBLE) is doing this weekend, she was born on the Fourth of July, and I had a chance to talk to her about her birthday party here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: What kind of party is this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elsa.

VERCAMMEN: Elsa from Frozen?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Frozen.

VERCAMMEN: Well, happy birthday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy birthday to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: Adorable. Happy birthday to me. They're saying again, Pam, this is the way you're supposed to celebrate. Stay cool, be on the sand and don't go light enough fireworks anywhere near any brush. That's for sure. Back to you.

BROWN: Hey, and good jumping on point they're knowing Elsa was from Frozen. Very impressed there, Paul Vercammen. Thanks so much. Happy Fourth to you.

When you hear space race, you are bound to think of the Cold War competition between the U.S. and the Soviet Union. But now, it's a battle of the billionaires and Virgin's Richard Branson looks to be the early winner. He's going to fly to space on July 11th, nine days before fellow billionaire Jeff Bezos plans to exit the atmosphere. But Branson tells CNN, it's not about who gets there first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD BRANSON, FOUNDER, VIRGIN GROUP: Whether I go a few days before him or a few days after him, honestly, it doesn't -- it doesn't matter -- it doesn't matter to either of -- either of us. What we want to do is do something extraordinary. And we're both doing something extraordinary coincidentally on the same month. I'm opening -- I'm opening up space hopefully for thousands of people in the year to come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Former NASA astronaut, Michael Massimino, joins me now. He hosts the new podcast, "2 Funny Astronauts." Great to see you. Welcome back to the show, Michael. So, what are the benefits of private commercial space travel, first off?

MICHAEL MASSIMINO, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Well, Pamela, thanks very much for having me. I think the benefits is similar to what Richard Branson just said, is that hopefully it will open up the opportunities in space to thousands of people. And it's not just the people who are going -- are going to be going into next year. It's also to -- for experiments.

My -- I'm a professor at Columbia, some of my students have already flown as a spaceflight experiment on a Blue Origin vehicle, Jeff Bezos' company. They're also flying another one on a SpaceX vehicle going to the space station. So, it's opening it up for students, for researchers, for entrepreneurs, and also for people who are going to get a chance to go themselves. So, I think it's a very, very exciting time.

BROWN: What are any downsides you can think of? Are there any safety concerns that you might have? MASSIMINO: I think, you know, that -- I think they're going to be pretty safe. I think that they've tested both of these vehicles. I know people working in -- for both of those companies, both for Virgin Galactic and for Blue Origin. So, I think that it's going to be a very safe ride. But just like anything else we do in life, and especially when we try to leave the planet, there's always that risk. But both of these -- both of these spacecrafts are have -- are very safe, I think, and also have backups.

We've learned a lot over the years, we've had a few accidents, and NASA has and we've learned from them. I think we've passed those lessons on to these private companies. And so, I think they're going to be as safe as possible.

[20:50:01]

BROWN: So, how far off are we from an era of space tourism? Virgin Galactic expects to be doing commercial space flights next year.

MASSIMINO: Yes. I think we're really close here we've had paying customers going to space on a Russian Soyuz, to the International Space Station, we call them spaceflight participants. And that's been going on for over a decade. It hasn't happened too much lately, but the Russians had -- did that years ago. And now, we're seeing a new era with NASA included with private astronaut missions. And now Richard Branson and Jeff Bezos have their spacecraft ready to go to take people.

But it's still -- it's -- you need a lot of money to do this, you know, this is not a cheap enterprise. And I think everyone in that business recognizes that the price is going to have to come down. So, I think, at first, it's going to be for the people who are wealthy who can afford to do this privately as a space tourists or even as researchers or explorers, because I don't think they're just there for tourism. I think they're try to do this for a reason as well.

And I think eventually that price is going to come down, and that means more and more people are going to be able to get a chance to go to space for whatever reason they have.

BROWN: So, we know space junk is becoming a real problem. Are you worried that this will just lead to more space junk?

MASSIMINO: Well, we've tried to become more responsible about that. Me -- we meaning, the world has. And in this case, everything that they're launching is supposed to come back. So, I'm not that concerned. Jeff Bezos' mission is a suborbital flight. And his spacecraft is named after its -- the program is called New Shepard. It's named after Alan Shepard, the first American in space. And it's doing a similar mission to what he did, going up for about 15 minutes, getting into space and then coming back down.

Richard Branson's spaceship has a mothership that takes it up, and then goes into space and then lands back on Earth on a runway. So, there shouldn't be any junk in orbit as a result of either of these two programs. But you're right, space is really a concern. But in this case, I don't think we need to worry about it.

BROWN: Would you go on either of these flights?

MASSIMINO: I would, Pam. I would love to go again to experience it again. Sure. I certainly would. I'm not paying that money though. I'll tell you what. There's a -- I worked hard in school. And, you know, when I-- to become a NASA astronaut, and not that we got paid all that much, but we didn't have to pay for the experience. So, I don't think I'll pay that price quite yet, but we'll see. Maybe someday the price will come down when they're asked me to go or they'll freak out so for me to do.

But would you go, Pamela? What do you think?

BROWN: I would totally go. I would totally go and I was just -- I was watching that Richard Branson interview part of it. He's just sitting on his couch. And I'm like, he's going to be in space in a few days, right? I mean, he's going to be in space. And right now, he's just sitting on his couch, and he's going to be there. What is that, like, from someone who's been there done that, that experience to leave that atmosphere and go into space and you're in a different world literally?

MASSIMINO: Yes, and it is quite an experience, Pamela. In our case -- so there is a difference. Now, we have these private astronauts now and we want to call them -- we thought tourists but I don't really consider them tourists. I consider them more like private astronauts.

In our job as NASA astronauts, I have a couple of my friends in space right now, two Americans, Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur. Megan and I flew together on my second mission. And that's a -- that's a different sort of model. So, what was going through your mind when you're a NASA astronaut getting ready to go, is that you're going to be going for a while, you have a lot of responsibility. People are expecting you to do your job. So, there's a bit of stress and a lot of anticipation associated with it.

I hope in Richard Branson's case, you know, he's trained up ready to go, the spaceship will take do most of the work. I'd say the same for Jeff Bezos. So, I hope in their case, they're just really looking forward to the experience. I was as well. It's a very special time the few days before you experience space travel. You know, those last few days are on the planet, so to speak. And when you return, the planet is definitely different. It really does. You really look at things a bit differently.

And I think that's one of the great things about both of these programs is that more people will get to experience and bring those experiences back to them, to all of us here on Earth.

BROWN: For sure. Michael Massimino, great to have you on as always. Thanks so much.

MASSIMINO: Pamela, thanks for having me. Thanks for covering the story. Sure, appreciate it.

BROWN: And Happy Fourth.

Well, what has become a rare moment these days, we saw Prince William and Prince Harry reunite this week to unveil a statue of their mother, Princess Diana. The statue unveiled on what would have been the Princess of Wales 60th birthday was commissioned by the brothers a few years ago to memorialize their mother.

And be sure to stay with CNN, the CNN Special Report, "Diana: Chasing a Fairytale" is next. I'm Pamela Brown. I'll see you next weekend. But first, it's almost July 4th and America is open. It is time to celebrate and here's what we've got in store for you.

[20:55:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: July 4th.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Let's get ready.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America is open, it's time to celebrate.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Full on fireworks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With coast-to-coast performances from Bebe Rexha, Billy Ray Cyrus, Black Eyed Peas, Blues Traveler, Brad Paisley, Chicago, Flo Rida, Foreigner, Ne-Yo, Nelly, Reo Speedwagon, Sammy Hagar and the Circle, Susanna Hoffs, The Beach Boys, Tasha Cobbs Leonard, Trisha Yearwood, and more.

LEMON: It's going to be amazing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Join Don Lemon, Dana Bash, Victor Blackwell, and Ana Cabrera for "The Fourth in America," live July 4th at 7:00 on CNN.

BASH: You don't want to miss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)