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Eighty-Six Confirmed Dead In Condo Collapse, 43 Unaccounted For; Residents Get 15 Minutes To Grab Essentials From Evacuated Building; How Trump Is Pretending He's Still The President; The Legacy Of Former A.G. Bill Barr; Trump's Election Lies Loom Large Over CPAC Agenda; Dr. Fauci Says Pfizer Apologized To Him For Surprise COVID Vaccine Booster Announcement. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired July 10, 2021 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:15]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.
Today, a little more than six months after the U.S. Capitol was stormed and smashed into by a violent pro-Trump mob, the final section of security fencing has been removed from the United States capitol. According to Justice Department officials at this point, the bogus conspiracy theory about Donald Trump retaking the presidency next month and Trump's only continued lies about 2020 could inspire more violence from Trump's most loyal supporters.
But this weekend, that type of far-right propaganda has a home. And it's the premier conservative gathering of the year, CPAC. Leading up to Donald Trump's speech, the agenda is littered with boilerplate big lie nonsense. The discourse so diluted that one of the biggest applause lines so far came from someone in the crowd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Trump won!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: That phrase, "Trump won," has become the rallying cry of a movement that rejects reality and tried to hijack America's peaceful transfer of power on January 6. The DOJ just released more body cam footage showing exactly what that looked like. The assault you're about to see is graphic and it put the officer in the hospital with staples in his head.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
ACOSTA: So when speakers at CPAC downplay that day or insinuate the 2020 election was stolen, that, the brutality you just saw, is what they are excusing and inspiring, potentially. Let's go now to CNN's Donie O'Sullivan who's live in Dallas for us at
CPAC.
Donie, if one thing is clear, is that Donald Trump and the big lie still control much if not all of the Republican Party. What else are you hearing down there in Dallas?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim. Yeah. I mean, it's really quite remarkable to hear just pretty much from everyone we speak to, almost, here and also, you know, in Ohio at a Trump rally two weeks ago, everybody buying into the big lie but also the insurrection which was only just six months ago. So many Trump supporters are convinced despite all of the evidence, all of the indictments, that it wasn't actually Trump supporters at the Capitol on January 6, that it in some way was a left wing plot.
We were speaking to some Trump supporters at CPAC in Dallas today. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'SULLIVAN: Who are you most looking forward seeing speaking?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today?
O'SULLIVAN: Or just this weekend?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump.
O'SULLIVAN: Yeah?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. We'd like to see him run again. He's got the right message and the right policies. He's done wonders for the United States, the four years that he was in there. And, we've gone in the opposite direction towards socialism, communism, whatever you want to call it.
O'SULLIVAN: Do you guys think the election was fair?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
O'SULLIVAN: No?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They tried to tells us the Tarrant County election went blue for the first time since 1962.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'SULLIVAN: And, you know, Jim, I asked that couple, because they genuinely believe that the election was stolen. You know, unlike some folks we meet along the way who might shout us down or are very aggressive, you know, they seemed like pretty regular people there. And I asked them, you know, it must be quite depressing to believe, to
truly believe that the election was stolen. And they said it was, that their losing faith in American democracy and weren't entirely sure they'll trust next year's midterm election results.
Finally, Jim, I just want to mention the point that you made there in the introduction about this warning from the DOJ of this ridiculous talk that Trump could be reinstated to office in the next few weeks. Most Trump supporters we've been speaking to haven't really fully bought in on that but some have. And as we know, it only takes a small minority of people to buy into something like this for it to be potentially dangerous.
So, it's going to be very important tomorrow I think with this Trump speech for his base, what sort of message he sends. Will he play into this idea that he could come back soon that conspiracy theorists are saying, or will it be more forward-looking to 2024? Jim?
ACOSTA: Well, he certainly has played into that delusion. And, of course, that is something we'll be watching and it's fascinating here, Donie, what you're hearing on the ground there in Dallas, that people are buying into this. But then, again, some are skeptical.
All right. Donie O'Sullivan, thanks so much.
And now we take you to Charlottesville, Virginia, where two confederate statues were removed nearly four years after they became a flashpoint in a deadly white nationalist rally.
[15:05:00]
CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro is there right now for us.
Evan, those two statues are now gone. How are people reacting there? It appears so far, pretty peacefully.
EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I think to put that in perspective, it's because Charlottesville itself as a town has one of these statues down for a long time. Behind me is what's left of that Robert E. Lee statue that stood in this square for nearly 100 years until 7:00 this morning. The city council in Charlottesville voted to remove that statue back in 2017 and then they were taken to court, they were stopped, and then of course that horrible battle with the alt right in August of 2017 when everyone was killed in a battle over these statues.
Well, the Virginia Supreme Court finally ruled in April of this year that the city could take the statues down. They never stopped trying to take them down. Now they made them down. So, today they did. This one, Robert E. Lee, came down and Stonewall Jackson not too far away came down, all in a matter of hours.
And what you heard around you in the crowds was jubilation. A lot of cheering. People really happy to see this finally happen. And it's not the only statues coming down here today. Charlottesville kind of using this opportunity to do a lot of clean-up when it comes to its statues. The statue of Sacajawea Lewis and Clark that was not too far from here
that Native American groups didn't like the portrayal of Sacajawea in that statue. The city council voted to remove that statue earlier this year as well. And now, today, at the end of this statue here behind me being removed, that statue is now also gone.
So, what we're really seeing today is Charlottesville trying to flex its muscles, do the thing it's been trying to do for a long time which is tell its own history the way it wants to -- Jim.
ACOSTA: All right. Evan McMorris Santoro, and it's important to note that statue of Robert E. Lee was not placed there during the civil war or anything like that. It was -- it was done many years later after the civil war period ended and during Jim Crow as the South was trying to celebrate the losers of the civil war.
And joining me now to talk about this, CNN political analyst and White House correspondent for "TheGrio", April Ryan, and CNN political commentator and columnist for "The Bulwark", Amanda carpenter.
April, it seems like just yesterday, then President Trump stunned us all by saying they were very fine people on both of these clashes in Charlottesville. I was there. I remember when he said it and nearly four years later, those Confederate statues have come down.
What's your reaction to this moment?
APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: As a journalist, the reaction is, is that a black mayor of the town took those statues down after Charlottesville became a verb. Charlottesville, a very sweet point town, liberal some may say with a wonderful main street of shops and merchants became a verb.
It became a verb of hate because we saw what happened to Heather Heyer, we saw the neo-Nazis, we saw the Klan, we saw supremacists marching through the streets with tiki torches, of all things, trying to put fear in the community and send a message around the world that they weren't going to stand for the fact that the Confederate statue could be coming down, with the Confederate statue to anti-Semitism, to so much hate and then the death of Heather Heyer.
So as a journalist, it took a black woman, a mayor, a black mayor to take down those statues, to change the word Charlottesville from a verb of hate to a verb of action of peace.
ACOSTA: It is an incredible moment, I agree with you, April.
And, Amanda, I want to ask you about CPAC because it has Trump's big lie all over it. It features election related panels with titles like how to collect evidence of fraud and spare the fraud, spoil the child if you can believe that incredible title. And then, of course, there are all the Trump mentions. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP JR., SON OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP: What was Donald Trump right about?
AUDIENCE: Everything.
TRUMP JR.: Everything.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, FORMER TRUMP ADVISOR: Our movement will stay true to America first policies created by President Trump.
LT. GOVN DAN PATRICK (R), TEXAS: And in 2024, Trumpism will rise again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Amanda, isn't that just so bizarre? Even after January 6th. Here we are six months after January 6th and CPAC is just a Trump lovefest.
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I sort of see the two events, the statue coming down today in Charlottesville and what's going on in Texas together. You know, when I first saw the video watching that statue come down in a peaceful way, people clapping, you know, a moment of unity for that town that needed it. I felt good.
But then I realized that the people who marched that night didn't go anywhere. They're not in Charlottesville now, but they're showing up at Republican rallies. Charlottesville was a pivotal event in Republican/Trump politics. You don't get Charlottesville -- I mean, the people marching to Charlottesville organized.
[15:10:00]
They went down to the Georgia Senate races for stop the steal. They were welcomed at rallies. They led the organization for the insurrection. And if you look at CPAC today now, you see people showing up with Proud Boy hats. You see Oath Keepers founder, walking around unafraid.
ACOSTA: Right.
CARPENTER: I mean, they're almost welcomed to the fold. I really wish, Matt Schlapp, if you're listening, you should make a statement right now and say that they're no longer welcome at your events. The people that participated in the January 6th insurrection should not be welcome at CPAC events.
But you know what? I don't think he's going to get there because he welcomed the members of Congress who whitewash that event to the stage.
ACOSTA: Yeah, he's rolling out the red carpet for them. No question about it.
And, April, it would be easy to say it's just CPAC. That's Donald Trump Jr. And Kimberly Guilfoyle throwing red meat to the base but the base is what drives the Republican Party right now. RYAN: Yeah, and so interesting listening to Donald Trump Jr. talk
about freedoms. What he spoke to the crowd, Matt Schlapp's crowd for CPAC, it's interesting. They're talking freedoms as they're dealing with issues of the border right now. They're right there at the border in Texas talking about border issues. They're right there in Texas talking about voting rights this weekend and the people at CPAC are talking about their freedoms.
Well, what about the freedom that once again, and that's once again, going back to this weekend on the Confederate statues coming down in Charlottesville and in the face of voting rights issues in the state of Texas, already put in place some restrictive voting rights laws and now going further, and then you're talking about issues at the border which still, immigration is still an issue that has to be tackled.
This is -- this is a conference of unity that is coming together on the basis of hate, it seems. The basis of us versus them. It started with the verbalization from Sarah Palin and then became actual on Donald Trump.
ACOSTA: Yeah, and, Amanda, I want to switch gears just a bit because CNN learned a top adviser, to House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy tried to rehabilitate the reputation of Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green by setting up her visit to the Holocaust Memorial Museum before she apologized for anti-Semitic remarks. Fast forward to this week, and now, Marjorie Taylor Greene is comparing officials doing vaccine outreach to the quote/unquote round shirts under Adolf Hitler.
Again, I go back to a question I've asked before on this program with respect to Marjorie Taylor Greene, what's with all the Nazi talk? I just don't get it.
CARPENTER: Listen, she is -- I sort of think of her as an odd line troolish MAGA influencer. I mean, all this is bad, but it's also pretty bad when she essentially stopped the Parkland survivor who went to Capitol Hill to advocate for gun control measures.
ACOSTA: Yeah.
CARPENTER: You know, followed around with the camera and harassed him. That was before she became a member of Congress and still, Kevin McCarthy welcomed her into the fold.
And so, like, who are you kidding? You think you'll be able to rehab her? I mean, she went and did her little museum tour, laughed in the face and doubled down on the Nazi references.
And what this really gets down to is not so much Marjorie Taylor Greene, but the fact that Kevin McCarthy is such a weak Republican leader. I mean, they laugh in his face. He can't stop Marjorie Taylor Greene from invoking the Holocaust from the most inopportune disgusting times. He can't stop Paul Gosar from hanging out from white supremacist. I mean, he is a Republican leader in name only and the only reason he's there is because he's a proxy and a figurehead for Donald Trump. ACOSTA: It sure seems that way. And, you know, getting back to what
you were saying about Matt Schlapp, it seems he and Kevin McCarthy have the same problem. They cannot control what's going on in that party.
All right. April Ryan, Amanda Carpenter, thanks so much for being with us this afternoon. Great to see both of you and hope you have a great weekend. Thanks again.
RYAN: Take care.
ACOSTA: And coming up, clearing up the confusion over coronavirus booster shots. Pfizer suggested we needed them this year but the CDC and FDA say, nope, not yet. So, what's really going on here? Answer is next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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[15:18:25]
ACOSTA: Do you need a COVID vaccine booster? Well, it depends who you ask. Pfizer came out this week saying it's working on a COVID vaccine booster and would seek emergency use authorization for it from the FDA next month. But then the FDA and the CDC pushed back and said, wait, Americans don't need booster shots just yet.
Dr. Anthony Fauci tells CNN, the CEO of Pfizer apologized to him for its abrupt announcement about boosters and Fauci offered this advice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We respect what the pharmaceutical company is doing but the American public should take their advice from the CDC and the FDA. The CEO, who's a really good guy, got on the phone with me last night and apologized that they came out with the recommendation. So there was no, not that apologized about the recommendation, but apologized for not letting us know he was going to do it ahead of time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And with me now is the former Baltimore health commissioner, Dr. Lena Wen, who is also a CNN medical analyst.
Dr. Wen, great to see you.
What do you make of this back and forth, the messaging was not clean on this?
DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Right. I do think that there was some unnecessary confusion here. Here's what happened. Pfizer is submitting an emergency use authorization to say if at some point we may need a booster shot and if that's the case, they want to have that on hand and we may need a booster for one of two reasons. One, is if the immunity from the vaccines begin to wane over time, or
two, if there are variants that develop to which the vaccines may work less effectively. So I think it's fine for them to submit the emergency use authorization, then that way we have the booster in case it's needed.
[15:20:06]
What the CDC and FDA are saying is right now, the booster is not needed but let's look at the data that Pfizer is going to present and it may well be for a segment of the population, for example, for patients who are severely immuno-compromised. They might benefit from a booster first or older people may need a booster first.
But for the general population, the bottom line is that, you do need a booster right now, but please do not go and look for a third shot when actually, the two dose mRNA vaccines or the one dose Johnson & Johnson vaccines protect very well, including against the delta variant.
ACOSTA: Right, that's one of the risks here is that this confusion could undermine confidence in the vaccine.
Let me ask you this. The CDC released updated school guidance saying that vaccinated children do not need to wear masks but that unvaccinated children do. But California will require all students and teachers to wear masks at school. What do you think about that? Is that a smart decision?
WEN: I think that if there is no way to verify who is vaccinated or who is not, then indoor mask mandates should be applying for everyone because otherwise, you're putting the onus on school administrators and teachers to figure it out. I mean, how are they supposed to know, especially if we have classes for people over 12, so people under the age of 12 should all be masked anyway because they're not eligible for vaccinations but what about middle schools and high schools? What are they supposed to do? Say any time a student is without their mask, are you vaccinated? How do you verify that?
So, if there is no way to easily verify proof of vaccination, I do think that indoor mask mandates should apply, although ultimately, what we need from the federal government is some assistance with vaccine credentialing so that, I think it's fair to say, if you are vaccinated, you don't need to be wearing a mask. So let's allow that process to happen.
ACOSTA: Right, and the CDC director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, told CNN that anyone who has upper respiratory symptoms should be tested regardless of whether they're vaccinated. What did you think of that?
WEN: Well, I think that in a way, it's a good thing because it reflects the protection afforded by the vaccine. If we're able to convert COVID-19 from something that causes you to become severely ill to something more resembling the common cold, that's wonderful.
The problem though is then anybody who starts having a headache or fever or fatigue, even, they need to be tested for COVID and I think it's going to become really difficult this winter when we have all of these other respiratory pathogens and the normal cold, and influenza, in schools in particular for both unvaccinated and vaccinated. It becomes really difficult to sort out who has COVID and not. So, I think we're going to have to have a lot more testing going forward.
ACOSTA: Right now, we're all getting together again, there's going to be a lot of stuff that's going to make us sick. Not just COVID.
And let's listen to what Republican Congressman Madison Cawthorn said this week about vaccines. I want to get your take on this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MADISON CAWTHORN (R-NC): Now, sort of talking about going door to door to be able to take vaccines to the people. The thing about the mechanisms they'd have to build to be able to execute that massive of a thing and then think about what those mechanisms can be used for. They can then go door to door and take your guns, they can then go door to door to take your bibles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: What did you think of that, Dr. Wen?
WEN: Well, I'm kind of speechless.
ACOSTA: Me, too.
WEN: I mean, I actually am thinking that too, back to the old days when the family physician, your local trusted family physician is the one who visits you in your home to provide you with medical care. I think about all the individuals who are home-bound or otherwise don't have access to health care, who actually would benefit from home visits. I mean, we're talking about something that actually about caring for people, providing health care services, providing information.
We're not talking about somehow the federal government coming in to confiscate your belongings. I mean, I don't know how you draw that line but we need to be telling the truth here, this is about information, this is about health care.
ACOSTA: It's about caring for people, no question about it.
Dr. Leana Wen, great to see you always. Thanks again for those insights. Hope to see you again real soon. Appreciate it.
WEN: Thanks, Jim.
ACOSTA: And after the collapse of that building in Surfside, some residents nearly we're told they had just 15 minutes to pack up their lives and get out of their homes. We'll get the latest next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ACOSTA: The mayor of Surfside, Florida, says crews may clear the rubble from the site of the horrific condo collapse a lot sooner than many expected. News as numbers of the confirmed death has now reached 86. The number of people still unaccounted for and likely buried in the rubble now at 43.
And CNN's Natasha Chen is in Surfside for us.
Natasha, what's happening at the collapse site now?
NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there was a brief stop at 7:00 a.m. because of a lightning strike, but they quickly resumed therefore. They've been really working around the clock, the shifts of these workers. We see them changing shifts from time to time right here by the media staging area.
There are two simultaneous efforts right now to find victims in the pile. Also though, to remove the rubble from the demolition site that happened just a week ago from the remaining part of the building that was demolished. So that is going at a faster pace than expected. That's what you were referring to.
Of course, this is also taking an emotional toll on the search and rescue teams that have been working around the clock.
[15:30:00]
Here is one of the rescue workers talking about the type of things she's finding in the pile.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICHOLE NOTTE, CHIEF, FLORIDA TASK FORCE 2: I feel like I'm physically digging, but I'm also emotionally digging for more strength to continue.
I think the first time it really hit me was when I found a passport with a baby in it. And I found the entire family of passports as well.
Those are the moments that I -- whew, I take a deep breath and buy my head in that moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHEN: She says it's the families' need for answers that really keeps her going.
Of course, some of the questions they now have relate to what the condo association and CNN is finding as far as documents.
You know, the "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" show obtained a report from about a year ago, before the collapse, a financial review, showing the condo's reserves were deeply underfunded. There were urgent structural repairs needed.
That report showed that there were zero remaining useful years of life for part of the building, including the entrance deck and the garage, that the facade concrete deck had deterioration.
A lot of issues that were clearly identified before this happened, Jim. Now it's a question of who knew what and who was prepared to do anything about it.
ACOSTA: And, Natasha, we're also learning that residents living in a condo building down the street only had 15 minutes to retrieve any belongings they could grab after it was evacuated for safety concerns.
What more can you tell us about that?
CHEN: Jim, you can imagine, after this collapse, a lot of buildings in the area started taking a close look at their structural integrity.
Crestview Towers, in north Miami Beach, that city requested all the buildings doing 40-year recertification to quickly turn in paperwork.
This was paperwork that was delayed. It was turned in after this collapse but it was dated from January, showing that there were structural and electrical problems.
They immediately evacuated that building about a week ago.
And then yesterday, or late this past week, allowed residents to go back into the building for just 15 minutes to grab everything they could.
The north Miami Beach police are launching an investigation into possible misappropriation of funds with that condo association -- Jim?
ACOSTA: Very sad and an alarming situation down there in Surfside.
Natasha Chen, thanks so much.
Coming up next, the pretender-in-chief. A look at the unusual ways Donald Trump is acting like his presidential term never ended.
And another brand-new CNN original series is coming. "THE HISTORY OF THE SITCOM" is bringing you all the stories behind your favorite sitcoms, the classics, the mega hits, and the shows that are leading the way. Watch "THE HISTORY OF THE SITCOM," tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m., only on CNN.
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[15:37:44]
ACOSTA: Former President Donald Trump is returning to the CPAC stage tomorrow. Hide the flags.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: So disturbing.
And now the same man who gripped the Stars and Stripes won't let go of something else -- the idea that he's still president.
Just look at the press conference he held this week, the flags, the columns, that vaguely familiar seal on the podium.
Of course, that's not the White House. That's Trump's golf club at Bedminster. But it looks like some kind of POTUS Potemkin Village with Trump as the pretender-in-chief.
Yes, he seems to be spending his post-presidency playing president.
And as always, he is playing the victim, too. This time claiming disinformation is being directed at him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you say it long enough, hard enough, often enough, people will start to believe it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Yes. And with Trump, projection is always part of the performance.
And over on FOX News, his trusty propagandists were eating it up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FOX HOST: I was struck by the presidential presentation at Bedminster.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FOX HOST: He had the throngs of reporters. He had the entourage in the background. The only thing that was missing was the presidential seal on the podium.
UNIDENTIFIED FOX HOST: And it looked like the White House.
UNIDENTIFIED FOX HOST: Yes. I forgot who was president, all of a sudden. It was good to see him back in action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Yes, because it's all just an act. You might say his second act.
Another case in point, last week, Trump hopped on a plane to the Texas border. He met with the governor and more than 20 House Republicans, and then stood in front of a border wall he no longer controls and gave instructions about the wall's paint job.
It was like old times, as Trump revived his wishes to paint the wall black so the hot border sun will scald anyone who tries to climb it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have to get that painted now. They have to paint it. Because if they don't paint it, bad things are happening.
I'm looking and it has to be painted. The best color to paint it is black because, if you paint it black, it's so hot, nobody can even try to climb it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:40:06]
ACOSTA: All that was missing that day was Trump promising Mexico would pay for it.
Also on hand, the architect of Trump's immigration plan, Stephen Miller, and Trump's former acting secretary of Homeland Security, Chad Wolf.
What's next? Another Stop the Steal rally at the National Mall? He might find some of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are busy, in jail.
And now this weekend Trump heads to CPAC, the same event that, earlier this year, put on display an enormous golden statue of Trump with American flag shorts and a magic wand.
But there's no wand that can change the election results, even though the CPAC crowd may need some reminding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see he lost the election. But his supporters, 73 million --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: He did lose the election.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He can say that he lost the election.
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: He did lose the election.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, but I'm quibbling that. Of course, he lost the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Makes my brain hurt.
They'll need more reminders because Trump keeps making the rounds to Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, where some of his followers have convinced themselves he'll be reinstated. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN REPORTER: Do you genuinely believe that he's --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's coming back.
O'SULLIVAN: -- that he could come back as soon as --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before the middle of August.
O'SULLIVAN: What if that doesn't happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh?
O'SULLIVAN: What if that doesn't happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to be in a civil war because the militia will be taking over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Even the conspiracy loving Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene sounded a note of caution about that wacky theory, that Trump will return to the White House in August.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLER GREENE (R-GA): I want people to be careful in what they believe. It's going to be very difficult to overturn the 2020 election.
And so I hate for anyone to get their hopes up thinking that President Trump is going to be back in the White House in August because that's not true.
And I'm telling you as a member of Congress, that's a very difficult thing to make happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: It's not just very difficult, it's impossible. There's no constitutional mechanism that would allow for it.
This is the land of the free, not the land of the make-believe.
But Trump loves to play pretend. Remember this old act at his rallies?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's a lot easier to act presidential than to do what I do.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: Anybody can act like a president.
(CHEERING) TRUMP: Ladies and gentlemen of the state of Florida, thank you very much for being here.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: You are tremendous people. And I will leave now because I am boring you to death.
Thank you.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Trump actually had it backwards. It's a lot harder to act presidential and exit the stage with dignity and grace and perhaps some humility.
On that note, there's something I would like to address. A couple of weeks ago, I compared Trump's comeback tour to the circus, full of sideshow acts and clowns.
I later got an email from an expert on the circus industry. This person pointed out that that comparison actually was not fair because, unlike the chaos of Trump world, the circus is carefully composed and organized. That's a great point.
Comparing Trump to a clown is most definitely an insult to clowns.
He's more like one of those mask-hating customers at the grocery store. You've seen them. A Karen, or whatever the name would be in Trump's case.
You can almost hear him saying, "I want to talk to the manager about the election. I want to talk to the manager of Twitter or Facebook."
And the American people are kind of like the store manager. We have to explain, well, sir, you lied about the election. You incited an insurrection. You're going to have to leave the store or we're calling security. Please take your fake White House seal and go play president somewhere else.
[15:44:09]
Coming up, the legacy of former Attorney General Bill Barr. What will it take to repair the damage he left behind at the Justice Department?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: Was former Attorney General William Barr, Donald Trump's "Hatchet Man?"
A new book takes a deep look into the former attorney general and the extraordinary ways Barr used the DOJ as a political tool for the former president.
The author of that book and CNN's senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, joins me now.
The book, "Hatchet Man, How Bill Barr Broke the Prosecutor's Code and Corrupted the Justice Department," which is out now.
I was just out in California, Elie, and I saw it on the newsstands out there.
In the book, you called Bill Barr a liar and an eager political partisan. Those are strong words. But I think they ring true having covered the administration.
But as a lawyer, you have to back up with proof when you make that kind of claim. Where do you lay it out in the book?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Jim. So I hesitated before calling him a liar. That's a very serious thing to say one attorney to another. I think we're reluctant to do that.
As I went through this book and I went chapter through chapter and all the scandals Bill Barr caused and created, there's no other way to put it. I'm not going to pull punches.
It started with the Mueller report. He lied to us all about the Mueller Report.
I argue in the book, saved Donald Trump's hide with that lie, all the way up to and including -- and we were talking about this in the last segment -- the election fraud lie.
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Bill Barr was one of the main perpetrators of that lie. And many other times, in between, that have forgotten in the midst of these scandals.
ACOSTA: You criticize Barr for using the DOJ to promote a political agenda. Can it be OK for an attorney general to consider politics? And what made Barr different from other A.G.s before him?
Obviously, people talk about Eric Holder. When he was Barack Obama's attorney general, referred to himself as the shield for Barack Obama.
HONIG: Yes.
ACOSTA: So this is not Robert Kennedy, who was the attorney general for his brother the president. This is not unheard of.
HONIG: There's two distinctions I draw here.
One, it's never OK for the attorney general to let politics interfere with the prosecutorial function. What you cannot do is let politics get into the prosecution game.
Here, Bill Barr saved Donald Trump, Roger Stone, Michael Flynn. I think that crosses the line and goes way beyond anything that any other four A.G.s, Republican and Democrat, that I ever served under did. ACOSTA: Sounds like Bill Barr is on a rehab tour. He refers to Donald
Trump's lies as B.S..
Let's remind viewers of the voter fraud lies he peddled.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: There are several states that only have mail-in voting, including a --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAM BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: This is playing with fire. This is playing with fire.
We're a very closely divided country here. And if people have to have confidence in the results of the election and legitimacy of the government, and people are trying to change the rules to this methodology, which, as a matter of logic, is very open to fraud and coercion, is reckless and dangerous.
And people are playing with fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: What do you make of this attempt to rehab? Sounds like he and Ivanka and Jared have all gone to the same crisis counselling P.R. firm.
HONIG: And others.
ACOSTA: And others, yes.
HONIG: I utterly reject that. Bill Barr said
ACOSTA: Yes.
HONIG: -- sitting in this chair and gave that lie to Wolf Blitzer.
When you watch that clip, look at how assertive he is. Look how assertive he is that there's a huge risk of election fraud.
He did that while attorney general, one of the most powerful people in the United States.
What he says is backed by the credibility of the Justice Department. He says that.
Wolf asked him if he had proof but he said, no, but I have my common sense, which is bogus.
So, and he did that two months before the election.
If Bill Barr came out and if he knew it was B.S., he should have said so then. He could have done a lot to prevent this from spreading. Instead, he spread the flames. I'm not going to let him forget it. This book is written, in part,
because I don't buy the revisionist history here.
ACOSTA: What can the DOJ do to rehab its image with the American people?
A lot of people are somewhat critical of Merritt Garland, the new attorney general on the left. That he's not going far enough, some are saying on the left, to say protect voting rights. He's not moving fast enough.
HONIG: Yes. DOJ has a lot of work to do. Bill Barr left the DOJ in a bad place.
Ultimately, however, DOJ comes down to what I call the line prosecutors, what I was, the people in the trenches, trying cases.
I talk a lot in this book about cases I tried and experiences I had.
There are policies and laws we need to pass to help DOJ establish its independence. I laid them out in the book.
But most importantly, so much of the quality prosecutor comes down to the quality of the person, the person's ethics, morals and integrity.
And we just need better people who are willing to get back to what I call in the book the prosecutor's code.
ACOSTA: All right, Elie Honig.
The book is "Hatchet Man." We'll check this out at newsstands and bookstores across the country. Please make sure you check it out. I've got my copy now and will be reading through it after the show is over.
It will be out in bookstores -- it's out in bookstores now --
HONIG: It is.
ACOSTA: -- as a matter of fact. You can get it right now.
And thanks so much, Elie, for coming on. As always --
HONIG: Great to see you in person.
ACOSTA: -- great to see you in person.
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: That's right. A rare in-studio performance by Elie Honig.
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And we'll be right back. Just back in a moment.
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ACOSTA: What is something you have done purely out of the goodness of your heart and never told anyone? That question was recently posted on the Web site Reddit.
In response, one New Jersey man shared how he donated a bicycle to a child through One Simple Wish, the organization founded by "CNN Hero," Danielle Gletow, which helps donors purchase items requested by kids in the foster care system.
Reddit members responded by flooding the One Simple Wish Web site to fulfill all 220 wishes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIELLE GLETOW, CNN HERO: Somehow it just blew up. There were thousands of comments of people relating to the foster care experience.
And then it was just one after another of people saying, you know, we should just clear the site. We should grant all of their wishes.
And then it snow balled until they crashed out site. We were able to grant more wishes. Eventually, they cleared the site of all the wishes.
It's definitely given all of us a renewed sense of energy and hope. And it certainly does remind you that there's so much more good in this world than anything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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ACOSTA: For more on the work of Danielle's organization, One Simple Wish, and to nominate someone you know to be a "CNN Hero," go to CNNheroes.com.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta.
