Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Israeli Prime Minister: Vaccines Alone Aren't Solving COVID-19 Problem; At Least 160 Dead, Hundreds Missing In Europe Flooding; U.K. Sees Surge Of Cases As Restrictions Set To Lift; Three Shot Outside D.C.'s Nationals Park; Extreme U.S. Weather; Two Athletes Test Positive For COVID-19 In Tokyo's Olympic Village; Biden Administration Promises To Appeal DACA Ruling; Britney Spears' Conservatorship Struggle. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired July 18, 2021 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to all of you watching us here, in the United States, Canada and all around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber.

Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, rising COVID cases, slowing vaccination rates and more people being sent to hospital. All this, as mask mandates are making a comeback.

And the Israeli prime minister says they are finding COVID vaccines are significantly less effective against the Delta variant. I'll discuss with my guest, an epidemiologist in Israel.

Plus, the nightmare in Western Europe. Hundreds are dead and unaccounted for after historic floodwaters cover entire towns. We are live in Belgium with the latest.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

BRUNHUBER: With COVID cases on the rise, Los Angeles County has now become the first major metro area in the U.S. to reinstate a mask mandate just one month after lifting it.

Effective this hour, face coverings are now required, again, indoors for, both, vaccinated and unvaccinated people. That's because COVID-19 cases have gone up, by 300 percent, compared to July 4th. Not everyone is on board with this new mandate, of course. Paul Vercammen is in Los Angeles for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The COVID-19 numbers in Los Angeles County started heading back up, in the wrong direction: 462 hospitalizations, 11 new deaths. And that positivity rate leaping, now, to 3.7 percent. It was just 1.5 percent, on the 4th of July.

So there is a lot of debate about this new rule that mandates wearing masks indoors, at restaurants, movie theaters and the like. And a lot of drama unfolding here.

This is Paty's Restaurant. It's in Toluca Lake. Look at the head shots. This is right in the shadow of movie studios and television studios. So here, there is a lot of unscripted, healthy debate about this. Most people say they are willing to wear the masks, again, indoors.

But you will see great divides. At one table, a husband vaccinated; a wife, who was not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's good. I think it protects people. I think anything to protect people and I don't mind the inconvenience of doing it. Most of the time, I'm outdoors, anyway. So when I go into a market or something, I put the mask on. I got it in my back pocket. And we go from there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't like anything that's mandated. I haven't seen the evidence to show that it protects you. The -- the virus is so small. Show me the science, not just what -- you know, what the media says. I think if you have cold symptoms, any -- any kind of symptoms, you should be honest and wear a mask to protect others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: And also, jumping on to the stage, the L.A. County sheriff, Alex Villanueva, he said in a statement, quote, "Forcing the vaccinated and those who already contracted COVID-19 to wear masks is not backed by science."

He said, "The underfunded/defunded sheriff's department will not expand our limited resources and, instead, ask for voluntary compliance."

It remains to be seen how all this is going to play out here in Tinseltown and points beyond -- reporting from Los Angeles, I'm Paul Vercammen. Now back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Well, it's quite a different picture in England, which is set to lift all of its social distancing restrictions on Monday. People will be able to return to restaurants, bars and public life without masks with some exceptions, including riding the tube.

But life isn't back to normal, yet. The Delta variant is fueling a surge in new infections. On Saturday, the U.K. reported more than 54,000 cases, the highest number, in six months. Phil Black joins me now from Essex, England.

Phil, so among those COVID cases, the U.K. health secretary, who tested positive for COVID.

So what's the latest on that and what repercussions might that have for Boris Johnson? PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not ideal timing for the government, certainly as you touch on there, Kim, because the health secretary, Sajid Javid, is only beneath the prime minister, Boris Johnson, in having overall responsibility for coordinating England's response to the pandemic.

And what it means, in practice, is that, come tomorrow, come so-called Freedom Day, when England will effectively throw away the pandemic rulebook and restore freedoms-- or at least transition, from rules, to a system of personal responsibility, Sajid Javid will not be free. He will be stuck at home. He will be isolating with his family.

[03:05:00]

BLACK: That will, also, apply to anyone who is identified as a recent contact. And so, that could include, in theory, other members of the government, perhaps, even the prime minister, himself. We wait to hear whether that will, indeed, be the case.

But what this does do is it highlights, precisely, the situation that U.K., England is in right now. That is, this surging wave of Delta variant cases. It shows that it really can get to anyone.

And it serves to highlight just how remarkable this policy move is, by the -- by the U.K. government regarding England, essentially, throwing away rules, while in the middle of a surging wave.

We have said it, a lot, recently but it bears repeating. This is an unprecedented experiment, Kim. No other country has tried to do this in these circumstances, before. And there is tremendous uncertainty.

BRUNHUBER: But amidst the surge, there is good news, on the vaccine front?

BLACK: Yes. So the government here says that now, vaccines -- or at least one dose of the vaccines -- have been offered to the whole-adult population of the United Kingdom. It's been their goal to achieve this in January. It is an offer.

It doesn't mean that needles have actually gone into all the arms of the adult population. What the raw numbers show is that, around 68 percent of the adult population, now, is protected by two doses of the vaccine.

The flip side of that, of course, is that 32 percent of the adult population has limited or no protection from vaccines, just yet. Again, just as England is preparing to throw away the rulebook, in this way.

And of course, you also have to point out that everyone under the age of 18 has zero-vaccine protection because the rollout doesn't include them, unlike in other countries. So going into this new, personal- responsibility phase of dealing with the pandemic here, in England, at least around a third of the population has no protection.

And it's why there are many critics here and around the world, who believe that this is the wrong move, at the wrong time, Kim.

BRUNHUBER: Yes. Still, many gaps there. Phil Black in Essex, England. Thank you so much.

Well, here, in the U.S., the former-surgeon general, Dr. Jerome Adams, is calling on the CDC to update its guidance because of the spread of the Delta variant. Right now, it says those who are fully vaccinated don't usually need to wear masks or social distance, indoors or outdoors.

But he says this is premature, just like a decision he made, early on, in the pandemic. He and Dr. Anthony Fauci, the top infectious-disease expert here, had initially said not to wear masks. Dr. Fauci spoke with CNN's Jim Acosta and defended the progress that's been made with vaccines. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF COVID-19 MEDICAL ADVISER: We've got to be careful to remember, when these vaccines were shown to be highly effective, they were highly effective in preventing symptomatic, clinically apparent disease; not necessarily against preventing infection, which we call sterilizing immunity.

They were quite effective in doing that but not nearly as much as the 93-95 percent efficacy in preventing symptomatic disease. So when you start seeing what's called breakthrough infections, if you look carefully at them, the overwhelming majority of those are people who, either, have no symptoms or only very mild symptoms.

So the vaccines are, still, very, very effective in preventing severe disease because, if you look at the risk of hospitalization and deaths, we're still well up into the mid-to-low 90s, in efficacy, against severe disease, which is very important. People need to appreciate the difference there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: We are hearing a more grim outlook from Israel's prime minister. Naftali Bennett says vaccines, alone, aren't doing enough to fix the coronavirus pandemic and that vaccines give, quote, "significantly less protection" against the Delta variant.

Israel is weighing whether a third dose is necessary for all those who have already been fully vaccinated.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Nadav Davidovitch is the director for the School of Public Health at Ben Gurion University and the chair for the health policy program at the Taub Center and he joins me from Tel Aviv.

Thank you so much for joining us. As I just mentioned, Israel is being sort of forced to change strategy on how the country lives and deals with the coronavirus because of that Delta variant. So give me a sense of what's happening right now in Israel. NADAV DAVIDOVITCH, DIRECTOR, SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH, BEN GURION

UNIVERSITY: So first of all, we need to face the public to understand that we will continue to live with the virus. And although vaccines are very efficient in preventing severe cases and deaths, there is no one -- 100 percent protection.

[03:10:00]

DAVIDOVITCH: And this is why we need a targeted approach. I think Israel is giving a glimpse to the future, showing that we need to have, both, high-vaccination rates. But also, contact tracing, breaking chains of transmission. Lots of tests. And of course, having a very important strategy around those who are entering from abroad.

We need to see how we are not creating health inequalities. We have our population that has a lower vaccination rates and we are investing lots of energies. And especially, we need to have integration. We need to have integration, in order to have all of our economy open, schools that are open.

Vaccination are extremely important. We had 1,400 deaths, in January, when we didn't have the vaccine. But vaccination are not enough. And I think that Boris Johnson' approach that was actually negated by many scientists right now is the wrong one.

We need to learn to live with the virus but this can be done with many actions, not just with vaccinations.

BRUNHUBER: But I -- I do want to ask you a bit more about the vaccinations, because Israel has become the -- the first country in the world, I understand, to give third doses, booster shots to adults with impaired-immune systems.

So based on the evidence that you've seen there, do you think a booster for everyone is warranted?

DAVIDOVITCH: No, I think there are lots of misconceptions here. Israel -- Israel approved only third dose for people that are immunocompromised. We are talking a really tiny minority of the population. Those under organ transplantation or suffering from a cancer.

Otherwise, there is no decision, yet, to have the third dose. And I suggest that people around the world will be focusing about having the first and second dose. We have, in Israel, about 1 million people that are, still, not vaccinated. Especially, important for those who are above 50.

But in general, we have a -- a -- a, you know, a warning sign about global-health governance because the main reason for the situation of variants is because we have gaps in vaccination around the world. All vaccine nationalism proven to be very detrimental to our public health and this is something to think ahead of ourselves for the future emergencies.

BRUNHUBER: But we are looking to Israel, as you said, you know, Israel offers sort of a glimpse into the future. And it was data from Israel that led Pfizer to announce that the U.S. should authorize a booster shot for everyone. And that had the CDC and the FDA here banding together and -- and declaring that wasn't necessary.

So how applicable or -- or universal do you think the data and evidence from Israel is for -- for the rest of the world?

DAVIDOVITCH: Israel is, indeed, a model country. We are very proud of it. We are sharing information. But I totally think that currently we don't need too much -- to think too much about the third shot. We need to think, especially, about the first and second one around the globe.

Pfizer is adopting, now, the vaccine for new variants. And maybe, in 2022, we can think about having a modified-third shot. Currently, in Israel, all experts, including myself or most experts, are just giving the recommendation for those who are immunocompromised and, maybe, for the elderly, those who are over 65 or maybe, even 80. This is something to think about.

But again, this is not first priority. First priority is to have the first and second shot for everybody that can do it. And in Israel, it's about 1 million people. This is quite a lot. And especially, also, to think about minorities and to think about the globe.

The globalized scale, how to create a more equal situation, including here in our region for the Palestinian Authority and, of course, for other low- and middle-income countries. This is for the best of all of us and it's a sign of solidarity. COVAX is good but it's not enough.

BRUNHUBER: We will have to leave it there but I really thank you for all of your insights. Nadav Davidovitch, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

DAVIDOVITCH: Thank you so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: A frightening situation in Washington, Saturday night abruptly ended the Major League Baseball game between the Nationals and the Padres. It was the middle of the 6th inning, when gunfire erupted. The players, suddenly, left the field and fans began rushing for the exits.

Some spectators weren't sure what the loud noises actually were.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We thought it was fireworks, at first. People -- a couple people started running. And then, as you saw more and more people running.

[03:15:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then we heard more shots. That's when we realized it was real. So everyone started ducking for cover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Police say three people were wounded outside the stadium, when people inside two vehicles got into a shootout on a nearby street. One of the victims was a baseball fan, who was outside at the time.

CNN's Chris Cillizza was at the game and says it was many minutes before anyone knew what was happening. So here's what he told us a short time ago.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS EDITOR AT LARGE: So it was in between innings. So it was right as the Padres made their third out. People were sort of, you know, doing what you do in the middle of a hot, humid night in Washington, stretching, getting food.

And then there was this commotion and it looked like it was sort of above where I was sitting, which is, you know, in the -- we were in the -- on the lower deck, the second deck.

And then all of a sudden to our left, you just saw people streaming out. I think it was really more people just hearing things and not knowing what to do and realizing it was a serious situation. But we really didn't have a whole lot of information.

And so by the time I looked back on the field, all the players were off. But I will tell you, a lot of people just jumped on the field and ran into the dugouts. And again, I think the issue was no one knew what that situation was. You know, no one knew if there was someone with a gun in the stadium.

I mean, there's metal detectors and that sort of thing. So you know, I thought that would be unlikely. But at that point, no one really knew. And they weren't saying anything over the public address system. So it was sort of a -- there was an information deficit. And I think a lot of people just panicked.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: The remainder of the game was suspended and will resume Sunday afternoon.

Coming up, waters from the devastating floods in Western Europe are beginning to recede, revealing the extensive damage left behind. We are live in Belgium next.

Plus, dozens of wildfires ravaging the western U.S. and dry lightning this weekend could spark even more. We will get the latest from our meteorologist ahead. Please, stay with us.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:20:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)

BRUNHUBER: A desperate search for survivors is underway in Western Europe after rain triggered devastating flash floods in Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands. At least 160 people are now confirmed dead, mostly in Germany with hundreds of others, still, missing.

Bridges have been washed out. Homes and businesses, destroyed. And thousands left homeless. But cleanup efforts have, already, begun, in areas where waters have receded. Germany's president says recovery will take a long time.

Meanwhile, the Dutch Red Cross is supporting people in the city of Venlo, where 10,000 people were ordered to evacuate their homes on Friday, due to a surging river there.

And have a look at this flooded city in Belgium. A whole community, engulfed in water. European officials toured some of Belgium's hardest-hit areas on Saturday and vowed to help the nation rebuild.

All right. Let's bring in journalist, Chris Burns, live in Belgium.

Chris, it -- the -- the damage behind you, just looking there, is really striking. Give us the latest on the -- the -- on the recovery efforts, on the rescue and on the efforts to rebuild.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kim, yes, the wreckage is just mind boggling. That's just -- just a taste of it. When you come -- go through the market area of this town, it's just piles and piles of -- of trashed goods, trashed furniture, trashed everything.

Over my shoulder, you can see an electric truck there. And they are trying to restore power here in Verviers. It is, still, not here, yet. So they are checking each fuse box to make sure that they can throw the switch. But we went to a town nearby, where they are still cut off from water, from gas, from electricity, the town of Pepinster. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BURNS (voice-over): In this small town of the Ardennes region of Belgium, the cleanup is underway after the terror and the struggle to survive catastrophic flooding.

Residents in Pepinster are finding what's left of their belongings, covered in mud, the first step in piecing their lives back together.

"We are emptying the basements. They were completely flooded. Now we are trying to recover especially my daughter's bakery equipment that was flooded. We are trying to recover what can be recovered. But almost everything has been lost."

Not much left of some gardens, either, turned into virtual junkyards by the flood.

But there is help from other locals; small brigades, armed with shovels, brooms and buckets.

"We do our best to keep going, to keep going and to keep the morale high. And we keep going. We are getting a lot of help from volunteers, people that we absolutely don't know and stop to help us. Now they are emptying the mud that was in the basement. It's really a beautiful act of generosity."

And there's help coming from the Belgian government and the European Union, as officials tour the devastation.

URSULA VAN DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: Now important is you've seen the destruction, important is the reconstruction. This is -- we are in for long haul there. But we stand by the side of people who are concerned in this region and not only this region.

BURNS (voice-over): The Belgian government has earmarked millions for the reconstruction.

But will that help be enough?

Were officials prepared for this disaster?

And will they be in the future?

ALEXANDER DE CROO, BELGIAN PRIME MINISTER: We will have to look at how frequent we think in the future events like this can happen. This is, 200 years ago, something like this happened. But what the future will look like, we will have to do the correct analysis.

BURNS (voice-over): Analysis not only of what should have been done but of what impact climate change will have.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNS: So it was quite heartwarming to see all the people, the local people, trying to help other people, coming from afar, actually, to help in the cleanup. But authorities are saying, please, contact the Red Cross first so we can do this, in an -- in an -- in a sort of systematic way because, in fact, we got stuck in a lot of traffic jams yesterday.

[03:25:00]

BURNS: Because not only are the residents trying to move their stuff around but also, of people trying to come and help. So they are saying, don't snarl the traffic, don't snarl the situation. Contact the Red Cross.

And they are telling people who believe they might be listed as missing, to report themselves to authorities because we still have more than 100 people in Belgium, who are missing, 27 dead.

How many of those missing, perhaps, are just -- haven't reported themselves, yet?

So that's what they are asking. You know, people's phones go out. They can't charge their batteries. Things very practical, like that. So that's what they are trying to figure out.

How many people are, still, missing -- Kim.

BRUNHUBER: All right. Really appreciate that, thanks so much. Chris Burns in Belgium.

(WEATHER REPORT)

[03:30:00]

BRUNHUBER: Still to come on CNN, two Olympic athletes in Tokyo's Olympic Village have now tested positive for COVID-19. We will have a live report next.

Plus, the fate of hundreds of thousands of young immigrants is up in the air after a federal court ruling. Find out what the Biden administration plans to do about it. Stay with us.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to all of you watching us here, in the United States, Canada and around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber and you are watching CNN NEWSROOM.

Well, the countdown is on. Just five days to go, until the Olympic Games' opening ceremony in Tokyo. But as the clock ticks, two athletes inside the Olympic Village have now tested positive for COVID-19. It comes, as coronavirus cases are surging in Tokyo, raising fears the games could turn into a superspreader event.

CNN's Selina Wang joins us from Tokyo.

So Selina, more positive cases in the Olympic Village; this time, athletes.

What more do we know?

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kim. A growing number of COVID-19 cases linked to the Tokyo Olympics. That number, now, at 55 with athletes, contractors and officials testing positive.

We have two athletes that have tested positive in the Olympic Village. This is, of course, a major concern, considering this is where thousands of these athletes will be living, a densely populated place. You also have another about testing positive who was living outside the Olympic Village.

[03:35:00]

WANG: It's very much a socially distant, sanitized bubble. Athletes are asked to dine alone, to stay apart from one another, wear masks at all times. But there are some concerns with the Olympic Village. For instance, I visited a suite, where you have eight athletes sharing

a room, in just about 110 square meters of space. Medical experts have raised concerns about the fact that athletes are sharing rooms.

Now officials have said that they are confident, however, that they can keep these cases contained. Take a listen to what this IOC official said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no such thing as zero risk and, that, we all agree. At the same time, the mingling and crossing of population is incredibly limited, incredibly limited. And we can ensure that transmission between the various groups is almost impossible. I am clarifying almost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WANG: And, Kim, health experts here have said that it is just impossible to keep the public, completely, separate from all of these Olympic individuals. More than 80,000 coming in from all around the world. This, as Tokyo has recorded the most COVID cases, since January. And just 20 percent of the population here is fully vaccinated.

BRUNHUBER: All right. Turning to a different subject, I noticed organizers trying to boost the atmosphere with fake crowd noise. I mean, we saw that, this past year in the English Premier League for soccer. It was -- watching that was surreal, to say the least.

So what -- what more do we know about how this type of thing will be used at the Olympics?

WANG: Yes, Kim, surreal and bizarre. The IOC head said that they are going to be playing recordings from past Olympics to have this fake crowd noise to try and boost the atmosphere when you have spectators banned and, pretty much, empty stands.

In addition to that, they said they will have these live cheer maps, where you can see where different people are watching games from around the world. Fans can, also, submit short selfie videos that will be played in the stands.

But this is going to be, still, incredibly challenging for athletes. A few athletes have pulled out of the games, citing the ban on spectators and the fact that their friends and family won't be able to support them in person. Certainly, an unprecedented experience for everybody involved.

Unclear, if this fake crowd noise and these other measures they are taking are going to be enough to really bring that Olympic spirit alive -- Kim.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, just one more reason Tokyo 2020 will be unique, to say the least. Selina Wang, in Tokyo, thank you so much. U.S. President Joe Biden is pushing back on a court ruling that

impacts hundreds of thousands of young American immigrants. Just ahead, we'll explain what Biden plans to do and what his old boss has to say about it.

Plus, singer Britney Spears lashes out on social media. We'll show you why she is criticizing some of her supporters for trying to save face as her conservatorship battle takes a new turn. Stay with us.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:40:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

BRUNHUBER: Barack Obama is calling on Congress to protect child immigrants. The former-U.S. President took to Twitter after a federal judge declared the DACA program illegal.

DACA stands for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals and it began during the Obama administration. The program creates an opportunity for undocumented immigrants, who were brought to the U.S. as children, to stay, without fear of being deported. CNN's Joe Johns has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: The judge in Texas essentially invalidated DACA. He said it was against the law, because Congress never signed off on it with legislation; also because it never went through the federal rulemaking process.

But he postponed any enforcement of the case until it went up through the appeals process.

Now the President of the United States, for his part, put out a statement on Saturday, saying he was deeply disappointed with the ruling, also indicating the administration would appeal the case and would put DACA through a rulemaking process. But he indicated, in his view, Congress does need to act.

Former president Barack Obama also weighed in, essentially saying the same thing on Twitter. It was during his administration that DACA was first introduced.

It was just about one year and one month ago that the United States Supreme Court threw out the Trump era challenges to DACA. Now hundreds of thousands of people inside the United States are once again in limbo about their status -- Joe Johns, CNN, at the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Karen Tumlin is the founder and director of Justice Action Center and joins me, now, from Portland, Oregon.

Thanks so much for being here with us. You represent some DACA recipients. You have been active in many court cases on the issue, including one that went to the Supreme Court. So I just want to get your reaction about who this will affect and -- and how.

KAREN TUMLIN, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR, JUSTICE ACTION CENTER: Yes, absolutely. Thanks so much for having me, Kim. Yesterday's decision was a really sad day for DACA recipients and those who are applying for DACA. The judge's decision has the most impact on individuals who are first-time applicants for DACA.

So those are individuals who had qualified for the program during the three years it was on hold by former president Trump and who had submitted to apply. And now, the judge's order says that those cases cannot go forward.

And that's the biggest impact of the decision. Later, the judge says, that he will lift a temporary period where individuals with DACA can seek renewals. So this is really a crisis call moment. And it's a call to Congress to pass legalization for DACA recipients and others.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, really underscores that need for Congress to act. I mean, Democrats have tried, a couple of times. It's, you know, passed the House. But hasn't got through the Senate. So now, they are trying to include it in that infrastructure bill and pass it through reconciliation, which would sidestep the filibuster.

But it's not, at all, clear that the Senate parliamentarian would actually allow it to go forward, on that basis.

How confident are you that it'll pass that hurdle?

TUMLIN: You know, I am confident that this is what the senators need to do. I am also really uplifted by the words of both the president and the vice president this morning.

[03:45:00]

TUMLIN: Making clear that they expect Congress to use the reconciliation vehicle in order to pass legalization. And I think what that shows is that the president and vice president are saying this is a priority.

And we know we don't have time for anything else, except to attach legalization to a reconciliation package. And it needs to get done now.

BRUNHUBER: You deal, intimately, with the people involved here. Tell me a bit more about what's at stake and how they feel about having their lives upended this way. It seems to be this sort of yo-yo effect that they are allowed, they're not allowed. They are allowed, they're not allowed.

Somebody had written in one of our articles, it's like a paid subscription. I keep subscribing to the United States, that the -- it keeps having to be renewed like this.

So what effect does it have on them?

TUMLIN: Yes, thank you, Kim, so much for asking. Because this isn't a court case. This isn't just a program. These aren't numbers. These are members of our communities and our friends and our loved ones.

And, you know, I got to speak to my plaintiffs yesterday after the court decision. And many of them said, I don't want another roller coaster. I don't want to live court case to court case. I am here. This is my home. I don't want to live in two-year increments.

I don't have to worry, will the next court overturn my ability to work here and live here without fear of deportation?

And really, that's what we all want, right?

We want security and we want to build our lives in a positive direction. So enough with the funny business in courts. We need to have a real and permanent solution for our immigrant communities.

BRUNHUBER: And I think most polls support that idea. Most people seem to support that idea.

So there's the -- the path through Congress. There is, also, the -- the judicial path here. They've -- the government has promised to appeal this. But if so, it's headed to the -- the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which I understand is fairly conservative.

And then, if it were to go forward, then, of course, the Supreme Court, 6-3 conservative majority. And I think three of the justices there had, previously, called the program unlawful. So you know, it -- it -- do you have any faith that -- that the courts will sort of come to its rescue?

TUMLIN: So I -- what I would say about that is, first of all, I give credit to the Biden administration for making clear, today, that they will appeal the ruling from judge Hanen yesterday.

Second, judge Hanen is just one judge. He is a district court judge. I represent plaintiffs in a nationwide class, in another case in Brooklyn, New York, before another district court judge where we brought a challenge to president Trump's effort to end the DACA program.

So we're a long way from having a clear decision in the courts on the legality of DACA. But we don't need another court fight.

We don't -- we don't need to go through all of this when, as you said, Kim, poll after poll shows us that Americans, no matter what political persuasion they are, believe that we need legalization and permanent protection for immigrant young people under the DACA program.

So the Senate needs to do what the House has done and get it done and provide a real solution for these young folks.

BRUNHUBER: All right. We will have to leave it there. Thanks so much for joining us, Karen Tumlin, really appreciate it.

TUMLIN: Thank you so much, Kim.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: The wife of Haiti's assassinated president returned to the island, on Saturday, in preparation for his funeral. First lady Martine Moise was injured in the attack that killed her husband and has been recuperating in the U.S. at a Miami hospital.

Acting prime minister, Claude Joseph, greeted her at the airport in Port-au-Prince. The funeral for Jovenel Moise is set for Friday. Well, his assassination left Haiti without a fully functioning government and elections aren't scheduled until late September.

On Saturday, international diplomats based in Haiti called on the designated prime minister Ariel Henry to form a government and organize elections, as quickly as possible. Moise had picked Henry to become prime minister but Henry was never sworn in. Claude Joseph has been acting prime minister, in the interim.

And we'll be right back. Stay with us.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:50:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

BRUNHUBER: Pop star Britney Spears is calling out people, who are publicly supporting her right now but who, previously, remained silent. In an Instagram post, Spears' tore into some of the people closest to her, who she said failed to help her when she needed it.

It comes just days after the pop star scored a crucial victory in the legal battle over her conservatorship. CNN's Chloe Melas has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: A groundbreaking moment for Britney Spears. For the first time in her 13-year conservatorship, the singer is able to hire her own attorney. Now representing Spears is former federal prosecutor Mathew Rosengart, who addressed cheering fans outside the Los Angeles courthouse.

MATHEW ROSENGART, BRITNEY SPEARS' ATTORNEY: We feel that today was a big step in the interest of justice, not only in terms of Britney Spears but in terms of this conservatorship, shining a light on what's happened here and larger issues nationally in terms of conservatorships and how they operate.

MELAS: The decision by Judge Brenda Penny comes after the resignation of Spears' court appointed lawyer Samuel D. Ingham earlier this month. Exactly three weeks after Spears' bombshell testimony, she addressed a

packed courtroom virtually. Spears spoke for about 20 minutes during the nearly two-hour long hearing, sobbing at times, saying that she wanted to charge her father with conservatorship abuse and telling the court she has serious abandonment issues.

The singer's father, Jamie Spears, has been the co-conservator of her estimated $60 million estate since 2008. He did not respond to the CNN's request for comment.

[03:55:00]

MELAS (voice-over): The Grammy Award winning artist also calling the conservatorship "F-ing cruelty," and a reference to her conservator, saying, quote, "I thought they were trying to kill me."

ROSENGART: Pursuant to Britney Spears' instructions, we will be moving promptly and aggressively for his removal.

The question remains, why is he involved?

He should step down voluntarily as that is in the best interests of Britney Spears.

MELAS: Aside from Spears' father and mother Lynne Spears, attending the hearing virtually, Spears' conservator of her person, Jodi Montgomery, said via her attorney that she plans to stay on overseeing the pop star's medical issues.

Britney Spears ending her testimony by saying, quote, "If this is not abuse, I don't know what is. I want Jodi's help to get back into the real world."

Following Britney Spears' court hearing and emotional testimony, she took to social media to thank her fans for their support and to say that she is so excited to be working with her new attorney, Mathew Rosengart.

The next hearing in this conservatorship battle is scheduled for September 29th -- Chloe Melas, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: I am Kim Brunhuber. Please, do stay with us. I will be back, in just a moment, with more CNN NEWSROOM.