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CDC Changes Guidance For Vaccinated Americans To Sometimes Wear Masks Inside Due To Highly Contagious Delta Variant; U.S. Gymnast Simone Biles Withdraws From More Olympics Competitions; Reporting Indicates Former President Trump Pressured His Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen To Declare 2020 Presidential Election Corrupt; Justice Department Instructs Treasury Department To Release President Trump's Tax Returns To House Ways And Means Committee; House Republicans Criticize Speaker Pelosi's New Rules On Mask Mandates. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired July 31, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: "58 Hours, The Baby Jessica Story," a CNN short film, premieres tonight at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jessica Dean. Boris Sanchez picks up our coverage right now.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. You're live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Boris Sanchez in Washington. Jim Acosta has the day off.

We start with the fight to eradicate COVID-19. It's a fight that is evolving, and the president of the United States is warning that Americans should soon expect new guidelines and restrictions. As the rate of new COVID cases continues to rise, the Biden administration is dismissing the idea of lockdowns, but it is taking steps to boost vaccination rates. And the CDC is recommending that once more, even vaccinated Americans wear masks in public indoor spaces where the virus is seeing a hotspot.

So why is there renewed concern? A new report released this week by the CDC that underscores how the Delta variant leaves the unvaccinated so vulnerable, and it shows vaccines have been literal lifesavers. The CDC report estimates that vaccines reduce the risk of infection threefold, and they reduce the risk of severe disease or death tenfold or more, meaning that effectiveness reaches at least 90 percent.

And while vaccinated people are largely protected from the worst effects of the virus, they can still spread it. Though, to be clear, that's among fewer than one-tenth of one percent of vaccinated people. The report shows the bulk of the spread is driven by the unvaccinated.

The data also shows the Delta variant is spreading as rapidly as chickenpox, one expert comparing it to the way cigarette smoke travels in the air.

Let's begin coverage this afternoon in Georgia where new coronavirus cases are up 230 percent right now. CNN's Natasha Chen is live DeKalb County for us. Natasha, Georgia, one of the biggest hotspots for new COVID infections, and the surge has already interrupted the start of the new school year at one school, more than 100 kids now in quarantine. Bring us up to speed with the latest.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. So the Drew Charter School in Atlanta started class last Tuesday, and within a couple of days, they had to inform families of more than 100 students to quarantine. And that's because as of Friday afternoon, they've had 14 positive cases. That's because they've been actually doing a lot of testing to detect these.

Employees of theirs were required to get tested before the school started and must continue that weekly. Students were strongly encouraged to test. And so out of about 1,900 tests done before Tuesday, they detected some positive cases, and then a few more after classes started.

Mostly affected is that sixth grade class. Nearly 100 sixth graders in quarantine. Eighth graders are the ones having to move classes online because the eighth grade staff are the ones more affected by that quarantine. So this is really a serious situation that's now caused the school to consider whether to mandate vaccines for their employees, because of the staff members who tested positive, only one of them was vaccinated, a breakthrough case. The rest of the staff were not vaccinated.

And so this is a concern of parents that we've been hearing as they came through this vaccination site today that wrapped up about an hour ago. We heard from parents saying that as school starts, they really want their children to be safe, to mask up, to get their shots. This particular event was also trying to reach people with incentives, giving out gift cards.

I spoke to the very first person in line who showed up in a wheelchair this morning an hour before this event started. And while I told him about new CDC data comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated people, he told me it was really about the handout, the gift cards being handed out today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: If you are unvaccinated, you're 25 times more likely to end up in the hospital or die from COVID.

VINCENT JAY, VACCINE RECIPIENT: Right, right, that, too.

CHEN: So that's an incentive.

JAY: I've listed all of that, but really, like I said, the money is what got me here, just bottom line. But I know eventually they're going to have to go up, because some people are only going to come for an incentive. They just don't care or are scared of the vaccine, or whatever, but you throw an incentive behind it, and people would do it. It's like some things, people wouldn't do because it's dangerous, but if you pay enough money, they'll try, they'll do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:00] CHEN: The $50 seemed to work because they got more people who came here today than in previous vaccination events in the past month. They vaccinated 230 people today. And as you have mentioned, Georgia has seen a rising number of COVID cases, but thankfully, also, the vaccination rate has been picking up compared to three weeks ago, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Money talks. Natasha Chen reporting from Atlanta, thank you so much.

Let's dig deeper with an expert. Joining us now is Dr. Peter Hotez. He's a professor and dean of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. He's also the author of "Preventing the Next Pandemic." Good afternoon, Dr. Hotez. Always appreciate having your expertise on. Help us interpret this new CDC data. Is this a game changer, an outlier? How would you rate your cause for concern?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, the big cause for concern, Boris, is the fact that this virus is accelerating down here where I am across the southern states. And we just heard what's going on in Georgia. And remember, this is not even at the time when schools are reopening for in-person classrooms. That's going to start in a couple of weeks. So some of the Louisiana parishes start August 9th. Here in Houston, August 23rd.

And so this is just the warm-up act. We're going to start seeing lots of virus transmission, in part, because our vaccination rates here in the south are so miserable. Look at the southern states in terms of adolescent vaccination rates. That's where there's the big disparity.

So whereas the overwhelming majority of adolescents are vaccinated in the northeast, here in the south, none of the adolescents are vaccinated. It's a bit of an embellishment. We're looking at 15, 16 percent of the adolescents, and a lot of the staff and teachers are not vaccinated.

And the Delta variant has accelerated, and we don't have any mask mandates. So what makes anyone think this is going to go well? This is going to be a dramatic expansion. We're already seeing young people getting hospitalized, pediatric ICU admissions now. And I just worry this is going to be really challenging to open up the in-person classrooms. I understand why we have to do it, but we didn't put in all of the safety net that we needed to protect everybody.

SANCHEZ: Dr. Hotez, I want to ask you specifically about what we heard from Vincent, that gentleman that Natasha Chen was speaking to. She was offering him data, talking about how effective the vaccines are. And he was saying, right, right, right. I heard I was going to get 50 bucks, and that's ultimately what led him to getting vaccinated.

What do you make of the incentives being used to get people who are apprehensive to cross that line and actually get a shot? Should there be more of an effort to offer these kinds of incentives?

HOTEZ: One of the things that I heard in that little comments from him was that, yes, if you pay people enough, they'll do anything, even if it's dangerous. And that's the key, right? So the disinformation empire coming from the anti-vaccine, non-governmental organizations, coming from the far-right, coming from other sources, they portray these vaccines as dangerous, or they'll compare it to Tuskegee experimentation. And that's the problem. We never made a good effort to really take down the disinformation empire.

And it's not just a matter of the social media companies like Facebook. We never went to the source. And that's what I've been trying to talk about for a number of years. If we don't take down the anti-vaccine, anti-science empire, this is going to be pervasive.

So I'm not happy about the incentives, but if that's what it takes, I guess we'll have to go there. But had we done a better job dismantling the anti-science, anti-vaccine empire, we wouldn't have to be so focused on giving those kinds of incentives. And now we're out of time because schools are about to open across the south. So this is a scary time for all of us.

SANCHEZ: And compounding that misinformation, Doctor, is the report from the CDC outlining breakthrough cases. And there's frustration from the White House and from the Biden administration about the way that it's been portrayed in certain media outlets. Put into context for us breakthrough cases and the possibility that people who have been vaccinated are potentially spreading COVID.

HOTEZ: Yes, Boris, the problem has been they'll give the numbers of breakthrough cases, but it's seldom contextualized in terms of the number of people vaccinated. For instance, we'll hear there are 35,000 breakthrough cases of COVID-19 among vaccinated people, but people forget to add, that's among 162 million vaccinated individuals.

[14:10:02]

So these are high performing vaccines, 90 percent reduction in symptomatic illness, even better for hospitalizations and deaths. And yes, there are breakthrough cases, and the breakthrough cases are associated with a higher viral load because of this Delta variant, and so there is possibility of transmission. But you put that part at the end. First, you emphasize how well they're protecting.

There was an unfortunate headline in "The Washington Post" yesterday about the outbreak in Provincetown, said it occurred among 74 percent of vaccinated individuals. But it neglected to say there were thousands and thousands and thousands of vaccinated people going through Provincetown over those few weeks. So the vaccines protected really well.

And it's really important that the media now be very careful how they message this. It's not -- the CDC, of course, has to be careful too, and I think they could do a better job, but also the media has to stop putting up headlines that sound like drunk texts. They've got to be more responsible.

SANCHEZ: Yes, we will avoid any drunk texts here. Dr. Peter Hotez, we appreciate you clearing that up for us. Thank you so much. HOTEZ: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Gymnastics great Simone Biles dropping out of two more Olympic events as she battles the twisties. The behind the scenes look she gave the world at her struggles. Plus, reaction from someone who knows a lot about the pressures of the Olympic stage. Amanda Borden, captain of the 1996 Magnificent Seven U.S. Women's Gymnastics team joining us live after a quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:51]

SANCHEZ: Gymnastics superstar Simone Biles has withdrawn from two more Olympic events. Biles no longer competing in the individual finals for vault and the uneven bars after explaining in a series of Instagram posts that she's battling the twisties.

It's a frightening condition for gymnasts that causes them to become disoriented and lose track of position midair. Biles posting videos that she later deleted of what she was going through. You can see that she's unable to land any of her dismounts during practice on the uneven bars, and you hear her frustration.

At this point, it remains unclear if Biles is going to compete in the two remaining individual events, the floor and balance beam. Meantime, USA Gymnastics tweeting its support for Biles, quote, "We remain in awe of Simone who continues to handle the situation with courage and grace. And all of the athletes who have stepped up during these unexpected circumstances."

Joining us now is Olympic gold medalist, Amanda Borden. You might recall in 1996, she was the captain of the U.S. Women's Gymnastics team dubbed the Magnificent Seven. They won the first ever gold medal for the United States in the women's team competition.

Amanda, so good to have you. We appreciate you sharing part of your weekend with us and offering your expertise. First, I just want to get your reaction to this news that Simone Biles has had to exit two more events.

AMANDA BORDEN, 1996 OLYMPIC GYMNASTICS TEAM GOLD MEDALIST: Yes, I think for anybody that's a gymnastics fan, everybody was waiting to watch in the Olympics. And I think that's what made it so challenging. But anybody that's done gymnastics knows that the twisties happen, unfortunately.

It's something we all have experienced at some point. We can relate to, and the level of difficulty she does, there's really not an in- between. She can't do it part-way or do it where she feels she's not going to be safe. And so she's had to make these tough decisions. But the woman's gymnastics team is stepping and doing amazing things.

SANCHEZ: It's important to point out that Simone Biles moves the way that no one ever has. So it's extremely challenging to begin with. And then I think for a lot of folks, including myself, this was the first time that I've ever heard of twisties. As we watch this video of her struggling with her dismounts, explain how frustrating this is. My understand is that it's sort of like a lapse between your muscle memory and your proprioception, your awareness of your body in space. It can be dangerous, right?

BORDEN: Absolutely. It's basically like your brain and your body are not in sync. And obviously when you're doing two flips and three twists in the air, that becomes a problem. But I coach little gymnasts every day, and even some of the gymnasts I coach, she gets the twisties too. It's very common in our sport. She'll get through it.

I think what makes it hard is she's not in our country, so she had to find a training facility where she can have the softer landings to see if she could get it back. And that was reassuring to see her having the opportunity to even try, because if not, it's not worth landing on the hard mats until you know you're in sync again.

SANCHEZ: What's also reassuring is the outpouring of support that she has received. This has also put a spotlight on some of the pressure that athletes face, often unfair pressure. There were comparisons to your former teammate, Kerri Strug, and her broken ankle vault at the 1996 Olympics before you won the gold.

And then another one of your teammates, Dominique Moceanu, tweeting, quote, "I was 14-year-old with a tibial stress fracture, left alone with no cervical spine exam after this fall. I competed in the Olympic floor final minutes later. Simone Biles decision demonstrates that we have a say in our own health, a say I never felt I had as an Olympian." Do you think that Simone Biles ultimately made the choice that Carrie and Dominique could not?

[14:20:02]

BORDEN: I have not spoken to any of them directly about that situation. I give Simone, USA gymnastics, her coaches a lot of credit for listening as an athlete. For me personally, I had a great support system in my coach, and my parents even, reminding me every single day, you're not a gymnast. Gymnastics is what you do. And so that really helped me handle pressure, but also remember I had a confident voice to share what I was feeling.

I had a vault I was very scared of as a gymnast, and I went to my coach and said, I'm not going to do that vault anymore and if that means I'm not going to make the Olympic team, then I'm meant to not make the Olympic team. And I was fortunate enough that without the vault I still made it. But I was very fortunate to have that support system, and I think that's been awesome for us to see with Simone as well.

SANCHEZ: So it's still unclear if Simone is going to compete in the individual competitions for the floor or balance beam. She's 24 years old. We don't know if this is going to be her final Olympics. If you were there with her in Tokyo and could offer her a piece of advice, what would it be? BORDEN: I said from the beginning, every athlete at the Olympics

started the journey to the Olympics because they love their sport. And she just needs to have that in the back of her mind, not worrying about everybody's opinion about what she's doing or not doing, and find that love and passion.

And if her skills are meant to come back, they're going to come back, and we'll have a chance to see her in those beam and floor finals. And if not, it's going to be OK, too. Eventually, it does go away. That's the good news with the twisties. It does go away. It just takes patience and time.

SANCHEZ: Even if she decides to walk away and doesn't compete in 2024, she remains arguably the greatest gymnast of all time. So she's done pretty well. Amanda Borden, thank you so much for the time. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend. Thanks.

BORDEN: Thank you. You, too.

SANCHEZ: Coming up, this stunning quote, "Just say that the election was corrupt." The new evidence that the former president was leaning on the Justice Department to help overturn the 2020 race he lost. Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:26:45]

SANCHEZ: Former President Donald Trump is hitting back against reports that he pressured his acting attorney general to declare that the election, which Trump lost fair and square, was corrupt, according to newly released handwritten notes of a December phone call between Trump, then acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, and Rosen's deputy. Trump said, quote, "Just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen."

CNN's senior legal analyst and former assistant U.S. attorney from the Southern District of New York Elie Honig joining us to answer your legal questions. He's also the author of the book "Hatchet Man, How Bill Barr Broke the Prosecutor's Code and Corrupted the Justice Department." Elie, great to have you, as always.

Trump came out today and made yet another bizarre claim, saying that the notes prove that he was trying to expose fraud. A viewer wants to know, "What consequences could there be if there is solid proof that Trump tried to interfere with the 2020 election?" And I'll add my own bit, isn't there already solid proof Trump tried to interfere between this note and the phone calls in Georgia and elsewhere?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Indeed, there is, Boris. This is a very common question from our viewers. How much is enough for somebody to do something here?

So let's break down what theoretically or possibly could happen. First of all, you've got Congress. Congress has an important role to play here. Congress does have the impeachment power. We know that. You can impeach a former official. Although, it hasn't worked thus far with Donald Trump. It's not likely they're going to impeach for a third time, but in normal situations, that would be one remedy.

Congress also has an important oversight function here. They can hold hearings, they can gather evidence. And I think with Donald Trump today denying this, that's all the more reason. Let's get to the bottom of this. Let's hear testimony from the people who were involved.

Separate and apart from that, Boris, there is the possibility, we don't have any evidence that this is happening, but of a criminal investigation. It is against federal law, it is against every state's law to try to interfere with an election, to try to get votes counted that weren't cast. And as you said, we seem to have so much evidence of this, but there's no public sign that DOJ is taking a serious criminal look at this.

Speaking of DOJ though, this incident does really underscore how important it is that DOJ remain independent from the president, because credit is due here to Jeffrey Rosen and others at DOJ who said to Donald Trump, no, we're not going to go along with this.

SANCHEZ: It appears according to all the reporting we've seen that Trump essentially went door to door seeking people to be complicit in his attempt to overthrow democracy, and again and again, he had the door shut in his face.

So the DOJ has instructed the Treasury Department to turn over former President Trump's tax returns. A viewer is asking, "Will the House Ways and Means Committee now obtain Trump's tax returns, and when will the public see them?"

HONIG: So yesterday was a big step towards Congress getting those tax returns. The Justice Department has now changed its position from the Trump DOJ, and now they're saying, yes, Treasury, the IRS does have to turn over Trump's tax returns to Congress. That's what the law says, by the way.

So now the ball is in Trump's court. He can still challenge this legally, but it's going to be really difficult for him. The law's pretty clear that the IRS does have to turn that over.

[14:30:05]

If Trump goes to court, he can try to slow this down. I don't think he ultimately will prevail, but perhaps it's better than nothing. That said, the field is really slanted heavily against Donald Trump now. If Congress does get those tax returns, there are very few constraints on them turning them over to the public.

By contrast, the Manhattan D.A. has had those tax returns for a year. Those are grand jury materials. Those are secret. We're not going to see those. However, if Congress gets their hands on these, then they don't have those same constraints and we could see them in the public fairly quickly.

SANCHEZ: Knowing the frequency of leaks that come out of Congress, that timetable may be a very short one.

I do want to ask you something COVID-related. The CDC now warning that the Delta variant can spread easily as chickenpox. We know the spread of this virus is being driven by the unvaccinated. So one viewer is asking, quote, "Can individual states or even the federal government mandate that everybody take a vaccine?"

HONIG: Yes, Boris, so obviously there are heavy political considerations that have to go into that. But legally, absolutely states can do it. We've known that for over a century. The Supreme Court has specifically ruled that states can mandate vaccines. Federal government almost certainly do so as well on the same basis.

And there's a specific federal regulation that gives HHS the broad authority to take, really, even more drastic measures than mandating vaccines if necessary to stop the spread. Legally, what you need to show is reasonable medical need here. I don't think there's any question given COVID, given the efficiency and efficacy of the vaccines we would have reasonable need here.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and given some of the protests that we've seen to similar measures overseas, specifically in France, it's unlikely that the White House will move in that direction anytime soon. But who knows, things may get really bad with COVID again. Elie Honig, as always, appreciate your time.

HONIG: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Thanks.

HONIG: Coming up, the mask wars are back. The Republican revolt in the House, including a crude remark by Georgia's Marjorie Taylor Greene. All that and more, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:36:48]

SANCHEZ: Despite the growing danger from the Delta variant, some Republicans on Capitol Hill are in open revolt against a reimposed mask mandate in the House. The official account for House Republicans even tweeting this out as they are in session, quote, "No mask Saturday." CNN's Brian Todd has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A symbol of open revolt, Republicans in the House of Representatives staging a symbolic mask-free walk to the Senate where masks are not required. They're battling a new rule saying House members have to wear masks inside chambers.

GOP Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted her own video of the protest. In her video, she writes on Twitter, quote, "Crossing back into Speaker Mask-hole's land of COVID," referring to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. That was just one display.

REP. CHIP ROY, (R-TX): This institution is a sham, and we should adjourn and shut this place down.

TODD: Texas Republican Congressman Chip Roy led an unsuccessful vote to shut down the House over the new mask rules.

ROY: We have a crisis at our border, and we're playing footsie with mask mandates in the people's house. You all put masks, masks up front here?

Which is it? Vaccines or masks? Do the vaccines work or the don't work? Do the masks work or they don't work.

TODD: House Republicans also held a tense meeting with the House attending physician, Dr. Brian Monahan. Sources in the room telling CNN they grilled Monahan on whether he was pressured by Democratic leaders to institute the mask rule. Monahan insisted he wasn't pressured, the sources say.

Still, the debate over the CDC's new guidelines for mask-wearing across the country has not only gotten political in Washington, it's gotten personal. That's Speaker Pelosi saying, quote, "He's such a moron," slamming the GOP Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy for his tweet saying new calls for mask-wearing are, quote, "not a decision based on science." McCarthy fired back at Pelosi, accusing her of politicizing medicine and of outright hypocrisy.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Just today I watched her in a private meeting not wearing a mask.

TODD: On the first day of new mask requirement of the House, at least 24 Republicans seen openly defiant, including Congresswoman Lauren Boebert.

REP. LAUREN BOEBERT, (R-CO): We know science is real.

TODD: A witness tells CNN Boebert threw a mask back at a House staffer when she was offered one. Boebert's office says she simply slid the mask back across a table. One analyst says while politicians like Lauren Boebert may not be a household name across the country, their resistance to mask wearing can have a real impact.

CARL HULSE, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "NEW YORK TIMES": Seeing her say no we're not going to do it, people look at that and say, well, we don't have to, either. They're mainly trying to appeal to the part of their constituencies who think this is all a conspiracy against them by the Democrats to impose their will on them.

TODD: And an epidemiologist has a warning about America making mask- wearing political again.

PROF. ANNE RIMOIN, EPIDEMIOLOGIST, UCLA FIELDING SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: We're going to see the same thing happen we saw last year, when politics got in the way of public health. We're going to see the virus win.

[14:40:00] TODD: Anne Rimoin and other public health experts say part of the problem is that mask guidance is no longer all-encompassing for Americans. It instead requires every American to look up whether they need a mask depending on a map of how much transmission there is in their area.

Another problem, according to a top psychologist who spoke to CNN, it's asking a lot of everyone when you keep moving the finish line on the pandemic.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SANCHEZ: Brian, thanks for that report.

Joining us now, CNN senior political analyst and "USA Today" columnist Kirsten Powers, and CNN political commentator and former Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania, Charlie Dent. Thank you both so much for joining us today.

Congressman Dent, for all these Republicans railing against masks and playing coy about whether they've been vaccinated, shouldn't they set a better example? The well-being of their constituents are at risk.

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Of course, Boris. What they should be doing is following the lead of Mitch McConnell, who's been putting up advertisements in his district encouraging people to get vaccinated. That's what every member of the House and Senate should be doing, Republican and Democrat. That is their responsibility. The reason why we're fighting about whether or not to wear masks is because of the unvaccinated who are putting the rest of us at risk.

It's also important, too, that our public health officials provide clearer guidance, unambiguous guidance about who needs to wear a mask, where, and when. It is confusing.

That said, though, House GOP members should refrain and desist from this foolish war against wearing a mask in the Capitol. Nobody likes wearing a mask. That's why I got vaccinated, so I didn't have to wear one, but I realize I may have to wear one again because of the unvaccinated and the way they're spreading this illness, and even those of us who are vaccinated may be spreading it too. So get vaccinated. That's the message for every member.

SANCHEZ: Kirsten, I want to ask you about something the Congressman brought up, specifically these advertisements being put out by Mitch McConnell. We have a clip from one. Let's play it now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R-KY) SENATE MINORITY LEADER: As a young boy, I faced a different disease. I contracted polio. Back then it took decades for us to develop a vaccine. This time, it took less than a year for us to develop three highly effective COVID vaccines. It's nothing short of a modern medical miracle. Every American should take advantage of this miracle and get vaccinated. It's the only way we're going to defeat COVID.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: So let's compare that to the other senator from Kentucky, Rand Paul, who is tweeting, quote, "No, the government doesn't decide who gets vaccinated. You do. Do not submit to the fearmongers." Kirsten, which message wins out here?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I don't know which message is going to win out, and I think that it would have been helpful, also, if Republicans would have been putting this message out sooner than they're putting it out.

But what Mitch McConnell is saying, contrary to what Rand Paul is alleging, is exactly what Rand Paul says you should do. You decide to get the vaccine. He's not saying that the government's forcing people to get the vaccine, though if the government did force people to get the vaccine, that actually wouldn't be that big of a deal, because it happens already. Most of us have been vaccinated with vaccines that are required when we were children to go to school. People who have children have to have vaccines to go to school. So this is not a new thing.

And I was listening to the story before these accusations from Republicans. They're just so nonsensical. The idea that Democrats are somehow trying to force them and control them to wear masks. Like, what's the master plan here? That Democrats walk around wearing masks so they can make you wear a mask?

Could we please use our heads here? This is nonsensical, and the members of Congress who are saying the things they're saying, like which is it? We wear a mask or we get vaccinated? I'm so confused. If you're that confused over what's happening, you shouldn't be in Congress because you're not smart enough, OK. This isn't that hard.

Get vaccinated, and then you should wear a mask when you're around other people who could potentially get infected. This isn't that hard. I don't understand why everyone is acting like this is that big of a deal. Put a piece of cloth over your mouth. What is so hard about this?

SANCHEZ: So much of the misinformation and the animosity is fed by the fringes and the places where these fringes thrive. Specifically, FOX News. Let's play a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT: Americans were promised that if they took the vaccines, they could have their lives back. So by the millions, they did that.

[14:45:00]

Now they have learned in the clearest possible way that they were lied to. They got their shots, but the Biden administration has decided to continue to control what they wear, where they go, and who they talk to. Why are they doing that? What's happening here exactly?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Tucker Carlson, who refuses to say if he's been vaccinated, he plays this pseudo-Socratic method game where he's just asking questions about the vaccine, but he's sowing mistrust. People in predominantly red America are not getting their shots, and the virus keeps mutating. Congressman, do you think somebody at FOX at some point will say to Tucker, you have to stop because people are dying?

DENT: I certainly hope so, Boris. I did notice some other FOX personalities who have been standing up and speaking up and saying that people should get vaccinated. But this is a big part of the problem. People who know better, like Tucker Carlson, they know better. And they're sowing doubt within the community across the country about the efficacy of vaccination. This is just beyond the pale. It's out of control.

One would think that the owners of FOX, and my good friend, Paul Ryan, who is on the board, and others, would say, hey, enough of this. We have a responsibility to the country to set a proper example. I'm sure to walk into the FOX office, they require all sorts of either temperature checks or vaccination. I'm sure they do, just like every other business.

And I think it's really incumbent upon not just FOX, but every business in America. Some of them are doing it, and I'm glad they're doing it, where they're standing up, and they're insisting that if you want to come in to work in this space, you better be vaccinated. And they're going to say the same thing about their customers. That may change it.

I would also argue that people like Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell should make the same demand for anybody working in the U.S. Capitol just as President Biden has done within the executive branch.

SANCHEZ: It's notable that FOX has very specific rules, reportedly, about vaccinations, and yet they have that on their airwaves. Kirsten, final thought to you.

POWERS: What Tucker is doing is just despicable. He definitely knows that what he is saying is not true. And I don't think lying is ever OK, or manipulating people is ever OK under any circumstance, but when it involves people's lives, it's just, it's beyond indefensible.

And pretending that there's some sort of conspiracy, again, I just want to walk people through it. Where Democrats wear masks in an effort to get Republicans to wear masks, what's the conspiracy? It doesn't make any sense. People just want to protect other people from getting sick. It's very simple, and I think that that's what most Americans should want to do.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and when you consider the viewership of FOX News, they are among the most vulnerable people when it comes to coronavirus.

POWERS: Exactly. SANCHEZ: So it's really perplexing that they would take this approach. We have to leave the conversation there. Kirsten Powers, former Congressman Charlie Dent, we appreciate you both.

POWERS: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Thank you.

DENT: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

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[14:52:35]

SANCHEZ: The FAA says it has received 3,500 reports of unruly passengers on commercial flights, most of those cases over the federal transportation mask mandate. Now for the first time in months, the federal government is showing flight attendants how to defend themselves. Pete Muntean has a CNN exclusive.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are taking a defensive stance against a growing problem in the air. Flight attendants are training to hit, elbow, and gouge simulated aggressive passengers, with actual passengers getting more violent than ever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are going to possibly die. You need to defend yourself at all costs.

MUNTEAN: Undercover federal air marshals are guiding eight flight attendants through this self-defense course, the first class offered by the TSA since training was paused by the pandemic.

CARRIE, FLIGHT ATTENDANT: It is sad that it needs to happen.

MUNTEAN: Flight attendant Carrie is taking the class, having just returned to her airline following a leave of absence.

Are you scared?

CARRIE: Sometimes, a little bit, yes. You get on a plane full of people, and some of them aren't very happy, and you just never know what's going to happen.

MUNTEAN: A brawl breaking out on a Frontier Airlines flight is among the latest unruly passenger incidents that the FAA says are skyrocketing. Federal documents detail how passengers have shouted down, grabbed, and struck flight attendants thousands of times since the start of a zero-tolerance policy earlier this year. In May, a passenger punched a Southwest Airlines flight attendant, causing her to lose two of her teeth, according to her union. NOEL CURTIN, ASSISTANT SUPERVISOR OF AIR MARSHAL IN CHARGE, TSA MIAMI

FIELD OFFICE: There's no backup at 30,000 feet. So that plane is in the air that has a crew that has to deal with the issues. And it's incumbent on us to make sure they're fully equipped.

MUNTEAN: Federal officials say some passengers are fueled by alcohol, but most are fighting back over the federal transportation mask mandate, which make up three-quarters of all incidents reported just this year.

SARA NELSON, INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS, CWA: It's so bad out there.

MUNTEAN: Sara Nelson of the Association of Flight Attendants say airlines should pay their people to take these classes, and the federal government should require that flight crews attend each year.

NELSON: That we can have that muscle memory and be able to respond when someone is immediately attacking us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready, move!

MUNTEAN: Here, instructors are teaching techniques that could be life- saving, like pinning an attacker who is armed with a knife.

[14:55:00]

But the TSA says only a few hundred people have enrolled in this course after it reopened training in late June. Veteran flight attendant Donna (ph) O'Neil (ph) says more like her should take this class to deal with the type of passenger becoming too common.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready, move!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't ever want to have to use any of this, but, if I had to, I'd certainly feel much more confident.

MUNTEAN: CNN, Sunrise, Florida.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SANCHEZ: Great report. Thanks, Pete.

A quick programming note to share with you. A new CNN film short looks at the famous case of Jessica McClure and how her small hometown scrambled to save her when she fell and was trapped in a well at just 18 months old. "58 Hours, The Baby Jessica Story" airs tonight at 9:00 right here on CNN.

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