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Calls Grow For Cuomo to Step Down; Dominant Delta Variant. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 04, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:06]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Welcome to NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

Vaccinations against COVID are at the highest level seen in a month. But at this current pace, it'll take six months to get all eligible Americans at least one dose. That's according to CNN's analysis of data from the CDC.

In the meantime, the Delta variate continues to spread across the U.S. Almost all of the new cases are among the unvaccinated. And what you're looking at right now, this is a CDC time lapse, and it shows how just over the course of a month, it has taken over. The red areas indicate the areas of high transmission.

CAMEROTA: The CDC says Delta now makes up more than 90 percent of U.S. cases.

In late May, that number was about 3 percent of cases. So, today, for the third day in a row, the average number of infections has increased by double digits compared to last week.

CNN's Lucy Kafanov has all of the latest developments for us, including a big jump in cases among children.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the Delta variant now accounting for more than 93 percent of all new COVID-19 cases in America, the numbers are trending in the wrong direction.

DR. JEROME ADAMS, FORMER U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: We are not crying wolf here. This surge that we're going through right now has every potential to be and already looks to be the worst surge we have faced so far.

KAFANOV: The U.S. is currently averaging more than 90,000 new cases daily, and could soon surpass 100,000 cases per day. DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: -- is going to go over 100,000. I hope it doesn't go much higher than around 100,000. But we want it to turn around quickly and come down.

KAFANOV: The worst-hit states, Louisiana, Florida, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Alabama, each with more than 50 new cases per 100,000 people each day over the past week.

Nearly 56,000 people hospitalized for COVID-19, up 10 percent in just one day. Facilities in Louisiana and Florida buckling under the strain.

DR. BEN ABO, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: It's really dangerous in terms of for the patients, because there's so many people waiting. We're just -- we're literally running out of room. It's straining. And I leave work absolutely drained.

KAFANOV: The good news, the pace of vaccinations is ticking up, with more than 446,000 people getting their first shot each day on average. That's the highest it's been since July 4, but, at this pace, it will take until mid-February to get everyone their first dose.

BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: The whole ball game is vaccination. The Delta variant is bearing down on all of us.

KAFANOV: COVID-19 infections among kids are a growing concern. Nearly 72,000 children and teens contracted COVID between July 22 and 29. That's up about 84 percent from the week before.

In Florida, despite Republican Governor Ron DeSantis' executive order prohibiting mask mandates in schools, two school districts are moving forward with their own set of rules. Mississippi's Lamar County School District also requiring face coverings, defying their governor's ban on mask mandates.

In Arkansas, the governor calling a special session of the legislature to amend the law to give local school districts flexibility to require masks for children under 12.

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AR): Everything has changed now. And, yes, in hindsight, I wish that had not become law. But it is the law, and the only chance we have is either to amend it or for the courts to say that it has an unconstitutional foundation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV: -- (AUDIO GAP) on this pandemic, especially with the Delta variant.

But here's some frightening food for thought. The nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, today warning that if an overwhelming proportion of people don't get vaccinated, there's -- quote -- "ample chance" for a more aggressive variant than Delta -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Lucy Kafanov for us there. Lucy, thank you.

And, as Lucy mentioned, the American Academy of Pediatrics says there's been a substantial increase in kids infected with COVID in the last week of July, with five times as many cases compared to the previous month. And this spike is, as we all know, coinciding with the start of school in most of the country.

In fact, classes have already resumed in parts of Florida, which just broke its hospitalization record with more than 11,000 patients sick with COVID.

Joining me now from Miami is Dr. Lisa Gwynn. She's the president of the Florida chapter of American Academy of Pediatrics.

Thank you for being with me.

Let's start here. Lucy mentioned these two school districts in Florida that are now requiring school students there to wear masks. You obviously think that's a good idea. Your reaction to the decision? And do you think that the dangers in Duval County in Alachua are worth the potential fight?

DR. LISA GWYNN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS FLORIDA CHAPTER: It's always worth the fight, Victor.

We are fighting every day to bring the point home that the science is clear that the only way to protect children, especially those children that are not vaccinated and who have chronic health conditions and are more vulnerable, That masking is really their only option.

[14:05:10]

BLACKWELL: So, I say that there's a potential fight because the governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis, has threatened funding for school districts that try to enforce mask mandates.

Let's listen to what the governor said over time about masks for students.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): These interventions have failed time and time again throughout this pandemic, not just in the United States, but abroad. They have not stopped the spread, and particularly with Delta, which is even more transmissible. If it didn't stop it before, it definitely ain't going to stop it now.

I have young kids weren't. My wife and I are not going to do the masks with the kids. We never have. We want -- I want to see my kids smiling. I want them having fun.

We need our kids to be able to be kids. We need them to be able to breathe. It's terribly uncomfortable for them to do it. Parents obviously can equip their kid to go to school however they want. But there shouldn't be any coercive mandates on our schools. Is it really comfortable? Is it really healthy for them to be muzzled

and have their breathing obstructed all day long in school? No to lockdowns, no to school closures, no to restrictions and no mandates.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Dr. Gwynn, I want to walk through a couple of those.

First, the idea of parents' choice here whether students should be allowed or forced to wear masks in schools.

GWYNN: Parental choice here is very unfortunate that it's come to this.

I mean, if we talk about a year ago, we were all locked in our homes. Our children weren't allowed to go into in person school. We now are in such a dangerous situation. I think we have forgotten where we have come from.

And I'm not sure where Senator -- where Governor DeSantis gets his information. But the scientific evidence is clear. And that is that masks save lives, as does vaccinations.

BLACKWELL: When you said in the first answer that the mask requirements are the only option, what do you say to those families who are relying on schools being cleaned repeatedly, for social distancing? Is that is that not enough to protect their children?

GWYNN: Absolutely not.

We know that it is spread through respiratory droplets. And so it's in the air that we breathe. And when children -- they're young. They're not necessarily distanced all the time in school, whether they're walking in the hallways or in the stairwells. And so all of those respiratory droplets can just spread like wildfire.

And so, again, the only way to stop that is to have everybody wear a mask.

BLACKWELL: Listen, so, over the last week, we know from CDC data that, on average, 32 children per day were hospitalized because of COVID in Florida, made the state the worst in the country.

Considering what we're seeing, as schools return, most without the requirement for masks, the exception of the two school districts we have discussed, what will those numbers look like as we go on into the first semester here?

GWYNN: There's no doubt that the infection rates will go up.

And, in turn, that will mean that more people will be sick. And that means that more adults and children will be hospitalized. And there will be more deaths. And so that's the facts. It's pretty simple. It's pretty basic. I think we need to think beyond civil liberties and think about the

health and well-being of each one of us, both adults and children, and bring that message home to kids that we're all trying to protect each other.

BLACKWELL: All right, Dr. Lisa Gwynn, thank you so much for your time.

GWYNN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: So, more than 30 percent of eligible Americans still have not gotten vaccinated.

And, today, we're getting fresh insight into why. A new survey from the Kaiser Family Foundation found that more than half of unvaccinated Americans think the vaccine is more dangerous than the virus itself, though all evidence suggests the opposite.

The study also found that unvaccinated Americans are significantly less likely to wear a mask in public.

BLACKWELL: Our next guest says the unvaccinated should not have all of the same privileges as vaccinated Americans, at least when it comes to air travel.

Juliette Kayyem is a former assistant secretary for homeland security and CNN national security analyst. Her new piece in "The Atlantic" is called "Unvaccinated People Need to Bear the Burden."

She argues that, beyond limiting the coronavirus' flow from hot spots to the rest of the country, allowing only vaccinated people on domestic flights will change minds too.

Juliette, you say there should be an unvaccinated no-fly list.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's right.

BLACKWELL: Make the case.

[14:10:00]

KAYYEM: So, it's for two reasons.

One is simply I don't know why the U.S. government has any interest in moving unvaccinated people around. They have a higher -- we know what the science says. It is, they will put at risk my children or any children under 12. They will put at risk communities that may be safer.

So let's just get out of that business. And so when people ask President Biden, will you have a federal mandate, that's not possible. But the federal government controls airline travel and the conditions of airline travel.

The second is most important. The same data that you say says people are wary about the science, I think, as a non-scientist and a non- doctor, I'm done with the explanation coming from that community that people just need to follow the science.

People also need to be burdened at this stage. We are bumping up against another school season where my kids -- it's not at all clear how or whether they're getting to school. We are done with this.

And so we have to start putting burdens on the unvaccinated. And in the same polling, it shows that not only do they want to wait for the science -- I don't know what they're waiting for -- but the second is, they would be moved to get a vaccination is airline travel, specifically airline travel, were only for the vaccinated.

So we should listen to that, that they recognize that, if there were greater burdens, they would move faster. And so, if I sound impatient, it is, I'm done. I mean, we're all done. The vaccinated are done carrying the burden for the unvaccinated in these regulated systems.

CAMEROTA: I mean, it is a controversial stance, having a no-fly list for unvaccinated people.

KAYYEM: Yes.

CAMEROTA: But, as you point out, we already separate people at the airport based on what we think their security status is, or their danger, their risk to the rest of us, in terms of TSA pre gets one line, and everybody else gets another line.

KAYYEM: Right.

CAMEROTA: But, Juliette, what about the people who say that they can't get vaccinated for medical reasons?

KAYYEM: That's fine. We can have exceptions. And we're sophisticated enough to have those exceptions, especially for children. We can put into place systems that would do that.

So my proposal is, as I -- and this is not all about me, but I'm sure you too don't know how to plan your fall on a personal level.

It is that the Biden administration should say that they are going to start to put into place vaccination mandates by, say, mid-October. That gives people time to get their act together. It gets people who are willing to move, if there were an airline travel ban, to get their vaccines. And it's in time for the holiday season, so that -- so that people will be more willing to fly.

So it will help the industry. Flight attendants won't be suffering the burden of all these people who are hostile to them, rather than to the virus, about ways to protect ourselves. And it will get our economy moving again.

We talk in terms of mandates. It's the wrong way to think about it. We are talking about burdens and privileges. And one privilege -- it's not a constitutional right to fly -- a privilege is flying and to satisfy safety requirements that should be demanded by the federal government.

BLACKWELL: Juliette, we're running low on time.

But would this not require a national registry of those who are vaccinated, something the administration has said they're not going to do? And you speak about burden. What would be the burden on the federal government to collect all of that information, and essentially navigate it on a daily basis, considering when people get to the fully vaccinated phase?

KAYYEM: Yes, so I didn't write this without talking to a lot of people who are smart.

So, basically, when the -- and who know airline travel and TSA systems. You could essentially just put another face, say, on the database for TSA as it collects the information that it's getting about your travel plans, your birth date, all the other information it's getting, with an upload of a vaccination requirement.

There's lots of states that are moving to online systems, we know, in New York and Louisiana, some putting them into their driver's licenses. So you could just acquire that information that way.

And the federal government could make a promise that it's not going to distribute that information in any way, as it does when we give information for security purposes. So this isn't like this is a good idea, let's do it.

This is -- we have got to move the percentage of people who are not getting vaccinated. And science is not the way. There are people who will believe the science who want FDA formal approval, but there's a large group of them that recognize -- that is not doing it because they're not being burdened enough.

And we just have -- the private sector has to put more burdens on and the public sector and now the aviation sector has to.

CAMEROTA: Really interesting, Juliette. We have been hearing a lot of people talk about the carrot-and-stick model.

KAYYEM: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Thank you very much for giving us this thought-provoking idea. We will see they're listening.

Juliette Kayyem, great to talk to you.

KAYYEM: Thank you. Good to talk to you.

CAMEROTA: More powerful Democrats calling for New York Governor Andrew Cuomo's resignation.

BLACKWELL: And former President Barack Obama feeling some pressure over his 60th birthday party -- how the surge of COVID cases changing his plans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:19:20]

CAMEROTA: The fallout continues for New York Governor Andrew Cuomo after that damning report from the state attorney general found he sexually harassed 11 women.

Governor Cuomo denies any wrongdoing. But now four local New York district attorneys from Albany, Westchester, Nassau, and Manhattan say they have requested investigative materials to determine if criminal charges should be filed in their jurisdiction.

BLACKWELL: There's a long list of people calling on the governor to resign, including state senators, congressional delegation, New York City officials, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, neighboring governors, and the president of the United States.

So far, Governor Cuomo is not stepping down, no indication of that. And a large swathe of the New York state Assembly members tell CNN they would vote to impeach him.

[14:20:06]

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is in Albany.

Shimon, so, tell us what's happening on both fronts there.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, most significant right now really is what's going on in the state Assembly.

It seems that they are gearing up to have discussions as soon as Monday on whether or not to bring impeachment charges against the governor. They're set to come here on Monday, the leaders of the state Assembly.

The number one guy who was Governor Cuomo's guy, the guy who defended Cuomo through many, many different scandals and different issues now is backing this impeachment, potential removal of the governor. So they're supposed to all come here on Monday, the state Assembly, gather together members from the Judiciary Committee, which would draw up these charges, and then decide perhaps when to proceed, how quickly to proceed.

That's, of course, the big question. How quickly will they move? And, of course, now we're getting word from all these different district attorneys from across the state that are now going to be reviewing the information from the attorney general. They want to see if any crimes were broken.

That is of significant consequence, of course, to the governor, because he could potentially face criminal charges relating to this investigation. One of the most significant allegations is here in Albany of that executive assistant number one. That's how the attorney general described her yesterday.

And what she says is that the governor, as we remember, reached under her blouse and groped her breasts. That is a very serious allegation and could potentially lead to criminal charges. The DAs could convene grand juries that can investigate some of these allegations as well.

So, certainly, right, from the investigative standpoint, from prosecutors and investigators, this is not going away any time. But the big question, big question, Victor and Alisyn, is, what will happen next week? Will we start to see signs on paper to indicate that they are heading towards impeachment of the governor?

BLACKWELL: All right, Shimon Prokupecz for us there in Albany, thank you.

So that's the political portion of it. Let's talk about the legal portion with CNN senior legal analyst Laura Coates, a former federal prosecutor, and CNN political analyst Alex Burns. He's a national political correspondent for "The New York Times."

Let me start with the legal, Laura, and you.

We know now, as Alisyn just listed off, Westchester, Nassau, Albany, Manhattan DAs have or are asking for this information. What's the legal exposure, the criminal exposure potentially for the governor?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, if there is any, it's rooted in the physical contact, the idea of unwanted, nonconsensual touching, the idea that offensive touching is often known as a battery.

Some areas have what's called a misdemeanor sexual abuse or assault, meaning you have to focus on a particular part of the body, the genitalia, the buttocks, the breast region of a woman. And so those could be the exposure in terms of that unwanted nonconsensual physical contact.

But, remember, one thing that was very clear yesterday is that there was really a bifurcation in the way that the investigators looked at this. One was on the idea of the physical touching. The other idea was about the culture in the workplace, a workplace they described as ripe for harassment, and sexual harassment in particular.

And so, in terms of the ladder, the ideas of the hostile work environment, the toxicity that they spoke about, the intimidation, that really lies in a whole different world outside of the criminal context. If there are allegations to be made there, it's likely in the civil world, which can, frankly, Victor be very protracted.

He's already said that he will fight those and use that as his moment outside of what he called the trial by newspaper to then talk about the burden of proof he would have to meet to defend himself.

CAMEROTA: But, Laura, quickly on those civil cases, for the women who came forward and told their story where there isn't some sort of criminal charge possible, where it is the toxic workplace stuff, is that what -- where they have to go for accountability?

That's what they have said. They want to see some justice or accountability. So would they have to file civil lawsuits now? It's that what would happen next? COATES: Well, that is the avenue for remedies and accountability in

the civil world.

Of course, it doesn't feel -- and I think it was inherent in the question -- it doesn't feel like pure accountability to people. It feels as though it can be a slap on the risk to go into the civil world. But the civil liability, civil litigation is quite powerful, because what the result of it is may not be incarceration, but it's also a change in behavior, a change of conduct, being able to streamline and have what is said on paper as the policy to actually match what is in the law.

And as you have seen, we have already known that he has addressed the idea of at least one person trying to seek damages. And let me tell you, Alisyn, more than 100-page report with 179 different testifying witnesses, that goes a long way in the civil world to try to credit the claims of the person bringing it, to buttress the credibility and to really have a road map for that litigation.

[14:25:10]

BLACKWELL: Alex, let's talk politics.

Everybody and the neighbors and literally the neighboring governors are calling for Cuomo to resign. You know New York politics. Any cracks there that indicate that it's more likely today than it was yesterday?

ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Victor, I think that the statement that you alluded to, the neighboring governors calling on Andrew Cuomo to step down, is truly extraordinary, not only because there tends to be a pretty collegial relationship between neighboring governors, even if they're of opposing parties, but because Andrew Cuomo's neighboring governors his entire time as governor, not only the ones listed on that statement yesterday, have known that he is a giant bully, and that he's a tough guy to work with.

And they have had all kinds of complaints about him and the kind of shop that he runs. And they have never said anything about it publicly, to my recollection. So the fact that you have his neighboring state executives -- again, this is a group that likes to see themselves, whether it's accurate or not, a group that likes to see themselves as above the nitty gritty of partisan politics -- taking this step tells you that it has gotten way outside of Governor Cuomo's control.

I would just say, on top of that, Victor, the fact that you have Democratic members of the House from other states, you have minor constitutional officers, state treasurers, in other states calling for Andrew Cuomo to step down, I don't know that that weighs meaningfully on events in the New York state Assembly, but it does show you the degree to which this has really metastasized and become a national issue in Democratic politics.

CAMEROTA: So, Alex, 10 seconds, will he survive this?

BURNS: Oh, I think it's extraordinarily unlikely that he will survive in any recognizable form.

I'm not going to predict when or if he's removed from office. But if you talk to anybody in New York six months ago, I think they would have probably bet on him to win a fourth term. And I don't know anybody who's saying that today.

BLACKWELL: All right, Alex Burns, Laura Coates, thank you both.

BURNS: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: Mixed reaction to the new COVID rules in New York City. What restaurant owners really think about policing their patrons' vaccine status.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)