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Mask, Vaccine Mandates Spark Protests; Growing Calls For FDA To Authorize COVID Vaccine For Kids Under 12; Biden Admin Ordered To Revive Trump-Era Border Policy; COVID Complicates Another School Year. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 14, 2021 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:23]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST (voice-over): Afghanistan in chaos as Taliban control tightens and the U.S. scrambles to rescue its allies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are people we relied on, we promised that we wouldn't leave them behind.

BROWN: American troops rushing to get U.S. staff out of the U.S. embassy in Kabul.

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: I expect that by the end of the weekend the bulk of the 3,000 will be in place.

BROWN: Deaths and devastation after a 7.2 magnitude earthquake hits Haiti.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We see new harrowing images, new accounts of dead being pulled from rubble, people being treated in the open air.

BROWN: Haiti's prime minister declaring a state of emergency as the U.S. Geological Survey warns of rising casualties and widespread destruction.

Hospitals overwhelmed by seriously ill patients as the Delta variant tears across the country.

MAYOR LATOYA CANTRE, NEW ORLEANS: The situation is dire, and we are simply out of time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have zero ICU beds left for children.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this busy Saturday.

The U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan is taking a major turn right now. President Biden a short time ago announcing he is sending a total of 5,000 troops to Afghanistan. That is double the number of U.S. forces that were there when the president announced the U.S. exit four months ago. The additional troops are deploying to help get Americans out as the country unravels at a speed that caught the Biden administration off guard.

Five more major cities in Afghanistan fell to the Taliban in just the last day. Now nearly all the country's provincial capitals are under Taliban control. Only two major cities, Kabul and Jalalabad, remain under control of the Afghan government. This timelapse from the "Long War Journal" shows the speed the Taliban gained territory. See the red spread starting in mid-April after the president announced the U.S. withdrawal.

Today the Afghan president addressed his country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. ASHRAF GHANI, AFGHANISTAN (through translator): Though I know that you are concerned about your present and future, I assure you that as your president my focus is on preventing further instability, violence and displacement of my people.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And joining me now is CNN White House reporter Natasha Bertrand.

It seems like developments are happening by the minute at this point in Natasha.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, things are moving extremely quickly. You know, the administration is still trying to figure out how they're going to evacuate everyone safely. Obviously this surge of troops coming at a moment when Kabul is being surrounded by the Taliban.

And this is why the president issued this statement today. Because things are moving so quickly he felt the need to come out and explain his reasoning and his justification for this withdrawal at this moment when everyone is watching, really the world is watching as the Taliban just completely overruns the Afghan government there.

And he said in this statement that part of the reason that he felt this had to be done now is because of the deal that the past administration made, the Trump administration made, that essentially tied his hands with regard to Afghanistan, making it so that they had no choice but to withdraw or to surge troops, which they said was just really not an option at this point.

So talking about the values that the U.S. is trying to maintain in Afghanistan, i.e., but getting the Afghan nationals out there who have helped the U.S. over the last two decades who are now in extreme danger from the Taliban and also our interests, our national security interests and how he's going to preserve those after all of our troops withdraw and after we only have really a core diplomatic presence there for who knows how much longer, saying that he is working with his National Security and intelligence team to make sure that we maintain that counterterrorism capability kind of over the horizon as we move forward, and values in terms of getting those Afghans.

Look, we still don't really know how that's going to happen. There are so many that are trying to get out of the country. But, you know, Nancy Pelosi, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi putting out a statement today just after the president issued his saying that she supports the president's decision here, that she says that he has articulated well his rationale for exiting from Afghanistan and that the world is watching the Taliban especially how they treat women and girls.

BROWN: And of course there is the decision to fully withdraw and then there is the execution of it. So really two ways to look at what is unfolding there. And you mentioned those Afghan allies. More than 15,000 still there at last check.

[20:05:07]

Natasha Bertrand, thank you so much.

And those Afghan civilians who helped U.S. forces over the last two decades are in more danger than ever. "Operation Allies Refuge" is the Biden administration's plan to airlift some 20,000 Afghan interpreters to safety. So far the U.S. government has managed to rescue around 1,000 and that leaves thousands more people and their families stuck in the crosshairs as the Taliban threatened anyone who helped the U.S. during the war.

Rahim Haidary was one of those Afghan interpreters. He knew danger came with the job and he's been trying to get his wife and five kids to safety for years. But he's had an even bigger target on his back ever since U.S. troops started to withdraw.

Enter retired U.S. Army Sergeant Gerald Keen. Gerald and Rahim became fast friends after meeting on the same U.S. Army post in 2016. They formed such a bond over the years that Gerald and his wife Lynette say they love him like a son. Well, this week Rahim and his family finally found safe passage to Canada. Their dream now is to get U.S. visas so they can live and work here and be closer to their surrogate parents.

Let's bring retired Sergeant Gerald Keen and his wife Lynnette. They are with us now.

This is such a good news story. Great to see you both.

Gerald, let's start with you. Just tell us about the relationship that you developed overseas with Rahim and the reaction from finding out that he's going to get out of harm's way.

SGT. GERALD KEEN (RET), U.S. ARMY TRYING TO GET AFGHAN INTERPRETER TO U.S.: Yes, thank you, Pamela, and CNN for having us on and sharing our story. And I have to say hello to Rahim and Kamrina who are watching now in --

LYNNETTE KEEN, TRYING TO GET AFGHAN INTERPRETER TO U.S.: Toronto. G. KEEN: Toronto, Canada. He has found passage through the Canadian

SIV Program. Last Sunday he landed in Toronto. And is quarantined now at the hotel in Toronto. So we are planning on a visit next Sunday once he completes his quarantine timeline, two-week quarantine.

BROWN: If you would, help us understand, Gerald, the bond that you developed with him. You know, there's so much talk about these thousands of Afghan allies that are left in Afghanistan right now that the U.S. is trying to evacuate. Tell us why it meant so much to you to get Rahim and his family out of there.

G. KEEN: Sure. He -- Rahim and I worked together and he was my interpreter at my Forward Operating Base near Gardez. And the more we worked together and the more we shared and the danger that we shared and the good times together, we became closer. He's the same age as my youngest son, so I took that connection to him very strongly and very early in our relationship and helped him and his wife, Kamrina, and they had three children at the time.

I've just pictured my son raising three children in that environment, and it just -- I couldn't imagine that. So we are halfway home at this time. We still need support from Toronto to the U.S. SIV Program. If we were waiting on the U.S. SIV Program, he would still be stuck in Kabul. So my thanks and my gratitude is to Canadian SIV Program who's brought this forward and got him to safety as fast as they did. So I hope this is a continuation to the U.S. and not a destination.

BROWN: Hopefully so, so you can be reunited.

G. KEEN: We are his family.

BROWN: You are his family. This is such a touching story.

Lynnette, tell us how you have been supporting Rahim over the years and he and his family manage to get to Canada.

L. KEEN: Well, over the years our relationship has developed, and it's grown and become really rich and full now. They -- Rahim and his wife call us mommy and papa, and that is what we are to them. When we knew that they would be leaving for Kabul, we spoke personally with his mom and dad. And his mom said to me, I am giving my son to you, you are now his mother and I entrust him to you.

[20:10:02]

The kids call us grandma and papa, and we just love them. And we speak -- now we're talking every day because we're on the same time zone. Before that it would be texts and e-mails. And, you know, before now we were just so hard through the SIV Program. We were lucky to have support through the Alliance of Wartime Allies, an amazing organization that is fighting every day to get these 18,000 people out of Afghanistan who have supported the United States.

And we are just, again, hoping that with everything that is going on right now that we can help them find a way to move their application that has already been vetted through Canada over to the United States system where it's been for five years and get them home to us.

BROWN: And just to really set the stage here, Gerald, of the danger that Rahim and his family were facing before they were fortunately safely evacuated to Canada. Help us understand that danger.

G. KEEN: That danger started in his village outside of Gardez. We knew that this Taliban was taking over approximately a month ago, six weeks ago. And we made a decision as him and I talked to move him to Kabul because it got too dangerous down there. And the target on his back was getting bigger. So we had to pick up him and his family, move him to Kabul, and he was in a safe hotel at that time. And as you know today -- Gardez fell today I believe.

So it is really bad down there. He still has family left there. At this time he has contact with his family, and they are safe at this time, but they were in Kabul Hotel for approximately 10 days before the Canadian embassy contacted them and flew them to Toronto.

BROWN: And we know right now Kabul is surrounded by the Taliban. It's been a long road.

G. KEEN: Correct. The road between Gardez and Kabul had checkpoints on it with the Taliban. And also the Taliban has significant biometrics. I don't know how they got that information or technology, but they have biometrics and that's what scared him the most of being stopped by the Taliban with the U.S. papers and the biometric system in place.

BROWN: Yes, the biometrics to be able to identify those who helped the U.S.

G. KEEN: Correct.

BROWN: Finally, Gerald, what are your thoughts as a retired soldier who fought in Afghanistan on the troop withdrawal?

G. KEEN: I knew that this time would come, and we trained the Afghan army the best we could for 20 years. I got it. I don't know if that's long enough or it wasn't too long. I'm not in a position to make that determination. But we trained them to stand up and fight for their country and left them the equipment that they needed. But the pull out is what I have a problem with. We should not have to send soldiers back in to do this job that should have been done before they closed Bagram Airfield.

Bagram should have been the last thing to close in Afghanistan, period, in my opinion, but that's the way I would withdraw out of a country, now we've got to send soldiers back in harm's way to help evacuate the embassies and these interpreters who fought side by side with us every day. And we left them there.

L. KEEN: Yes.

G. KEEN: And the world is watching. The world is watching us, every move, as this thing, this situation compounds hourly. It changes hourly. So I just have a disagreement or a heartburn on how we did it. I'm not sure if I agree on the timeline of when we did it. BROWN: Wow. Gerald --

G. KEEN: So the Afghan people have got to stand up and fight for their country.

BROWN: Gerald, thank you not just for coming on but for all of your service and for fighting for this country and making all the sacrifices you did. And Lynnette, thank you for all the sacrifices you have made as well in support of your husband. I know military families go through a tremendous amount, and I'm so glad that this has a happy ending.

[20:15:00]

And we hope that he comes back and will be able to leave Canada soon and be with you there in Michigan. Thank you both so much.

G. KEEN: Thank you, Pamela.

L. KEEN: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: Well, still ahead, disaster in Haiti. A country grappling with a leadership crisis, COVID-19 and an approaching tropical storm is now reeling from a devastating earthquake. An update on the tragedy there.

Plus kids under 12 still not eligible for a coronavirus vaccine. What is the hold up? We're going to speak to a doctor who says it's time for the FDA to act.

And the Homeland Security secretary admits we are facing a serious challenge at our southern border. That's a direct quote. So what is being done about it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In Haiti, quote, "the streets are filled with screaming." That heart wrenching description coming from a church archdeacon speaking to "The New York Times."

[20:20:03]

A state of emergency is now in force in Haiti after this morning's devastating 7.2 magnitude earthquake. It is the latest crisis to befall the poorest nation in the Western hemisphere. The barest of details are trickling out. The official death toll so far is 304 people with every expectation it will climb much higher. More than 1800 people are injured. One hospital says it is overwhelmed with patients and has set up tents to handle the overflow.

The U.S. Geological Survey says high casualties are probable. Haiti has already been under enormous distress. Its president was assassinated just a month ago, and it is still recovering from the earthquake in 2010 that killed as many as 300,000 people.

I want to bring in my guest Garry Pierre-Pierre, a multimedia journalist who is the publisher and founder of "The Haitian Times." He is also a former reporter for "The New York Times."

If you could, Garry, give us the latest on what is happening on the ground in Haiti.

GARRY PIERRE-PIERRE, FOUNDER AND PUBLISHER, THE HAITIAN TIMES: Well, thanks for having me, Pamela. Before I answer this question, I want to share with you and with your viewers this morning when I got the news, the only thing that came to my mind was this old blues song that I love so much that says if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all. And this is the only thing I could think about my beloved homeland where I was born that, you know, not again, we just went through so much last month with the assassination of the president and today here we are again.

But the situation is perilous, and it's getting worse by the moment. As you said in your intro, thousands are expected dead. Unfortunately, it needs lots of help. I mean, I'm heartened to hear that the USAID, U.S. Agency for International Development Director Samantha Powers said that they are on the ground assessing the situation, but so far, based on our reporting on the ground, I haven't seen anybody on location yet from U.S. government. So we're hoping that they can get there as soon as possible because thousands of people are trapped under the rubbles.

And if they don't get them out as soon as possible, you know, we may have really another repeat of 2010 and that was really bad.

BROWN: We do not want that. More than 200,000 people die after that 2010 earthquake. I was there on the ground. I saw just the aftermath and how devastating it was, all the heartbreak. But also I saw the incredible resilience of the Haitian people.

Given what you just laid out, the hardship after hardship, how do they keep going in the face of all of this?

PIERRE-PIERRE: Well, you know, you just have to live, if you love, and you just have to believe, you have to trust that, hey, something -- one day you're going to catch a break and hopefully that's, you know, ahead of us. But above all I think it really important, part of that bad luck is also bad planning on the part of the administrators and the leaders of the country. I mean, for instance, we knew -- scientists have warned that this was inevitable, but yet 11 years we did very little to prevent this thing from repeating itself.

We know that earthquakes are coming. There's several fault lines, by the way, Pamela, and scientists have been warning about the rift. And we've done very little in terms of shoring up a building code to make sure that, you know, if we do or when we do have these earthquakes that we could mitigate the damage, we could save lives. And I think that's the conversation we should be having, you know, during the 11 years. You know, the government did very little to prevent this strategy that we're living alive.

BROWN: And I remember the government did very little after the 2010 earthquake in terms of rebuilding in Port-au-Prince. I went there a couple of months after the earthquake and it was really the Haitian people themselves doing the work of rebuilding. And so, you know, you just -- you think about Haiti right now, the storm coming its way, all the devastation it's going through already. What does the U.S. need to do for Haiti right now in your view?

PIERRE-PIERRE: Well, provide aid. I mean, the U.S. has work to do. You know, if USAID is on the ground they know what to do, they know how to do search and rescue mission. You know, we've been through that in Surfside, Florida, just last month as well. And you have other countries, you know, Cuba is there right now helping the Haitians with some equipment, and we're just waiting for some equipment, dog, that can, you know, scent people alive and just basically trying to save some lives.

The U.S. has been our best friend and sometimes our worst enemy, but it's a very symbiotic relationship, and we count on the U.S. and they count on us here.

[20:25:06]

And I think right now as we speak there are a lot of Zoom meetings going on all over the community in New York and Florida and across the United States where Haitian-Americans are saying, OK, what can we do, what do we need to do? We have several elected officials in New York state and in Florida that are martialing their contact to make sure that, you know, they understand that the U.S., whatever help we're providing is what the people in Haiti need right now and not just saying things just for saying things but things of use to people to save lives.

BROWN: Garry Pierre-Pierre, thank you so much.

PIERRE-PIERRE: Thanks for having me, Pamela.

BROWN: Well, it is a source of anxiety for parents of young children. When will their kids be eligible for a COVID vaccine? Our next guest has been helping lead pediatric trials, and we're going to ask her what the time line looks like up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:23]

BROWN: As the nation grapples with the relentless advance of the Delta variant, anger is boiling across the country over about whether and how masks and vaccines should be mandated. Today, hundreds of people gathered at the Oklahoma State Capitol in Oklahoma City. Look at this crowd. They called it the Oklahoma Freedom Rally and held sign saying, no mask mandate and stand up for freedom. The gathering was peaceful. Some people pushed into the Capitol rotunda, many others rallied outside.

Similar protests outside Los Angeles City Hall today, also, there are hundreds of protesters opposing any vaccine mandates. Tensions there turned violent and one person was stabbed during a fight that broke out during the demonstration. Meanwhile, it's important to remember that kids under 12 still aren't eligible for protection from a vaccine and pressure is on the FDA to weigh in soon to change that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: If everything were to go well, and everything would fall into place, I think it's possible that we could see a vaccine before the end of the calendar year for kids under 12. But, you know, everything would have to go well, you know, in that circumstance. But make no mistake, the FDA will move quickly on this because they recognize what's at stake. It's the health of our children. And there's really nothing more important than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But is that timeline soon enough? Let's ask Dr. Yvonne Maldonado. She has been helping lead pediatric trials of the Pfizer vaccine at Stanford. She's also a professor of pediatric infectious diseases there and is the chair of the committee on Infectious Diseases at the American Academy of Pediatrics. I can't imagine a better expert to discuss this issue than you, Doctor. Thank you for coming on the show.

You and the American Academy of Pediatrics have been pushing the FDA to essentially be more decisive in authorizing these vaccines for kids under 12. If we have the data, what is the hold up?

YVONNE MALDONADO, COMMITTEE ON INFECTIOUS DISEASES, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS: Well, we are -- we are still generating some of the data. And I think one of the things to remember is that on average, a vaccine takes somewhere between three and five years to go into regulatory approval. So, we have really been moving fairly quickly here, considering that the first vaccine for adults was approved and during the emergency use in December.

So, for children, we have to wait until the data are collected for adults before we can start our studies and kids and we are well underway. We also are really taking a lot of care to make sure that we are tracking safety as well as the effectiveness of the vaccine. So, we're really actually moving pretty fast. It's just that this isn't much faster than what we see for routine vaccinations.

BROWN: What is the data showing right now?

MALDONADO: Well, so far, I have to say things are going extremely well, the children are doing well. The parents are doing well. Across the country, everyone who is doing these vaccine trials is saying the same thing. We have a huge interest from families who want their children to be participating in these trials, and for their children to be vaccinated. So, we've been very pleased so far with the way things have gone with the trials.

BROWN: So, what is your biggest concern as the school year begins with no vaccine authorized for young children? MALDONADO: Well, what we learned last year before we had vaccines, we -- remember last year, the American Academy of Pediatrics also put out a statement saying that we thought children could go back to school safely if they were masked and they had distancing. And so, we think that this could be the same this year because we have the additional benefit of vaccines.

What I'm worried about, however, are areas of the country where the -- there is active protests against masks or vaccines in schools, and that is really inappropriate. We really need to protect our young children who can't get vaccinated and those are children under 12. Then we know that masks and distancing and vaccines for those who can be vaccinated really helps create a bubble of safety around those children.

BROWN: I want to go back to what you said at the beginning of the conversation you were saying we've been moving really fast comparatively, if you could just help us understand how long these trials have been going on for kids, and when you expect the vaccine to be authorized for children under 12.

MALDONADO: Well, the earliest studies really started in 2020. And that's when some of the mRNA company, so Pfizer and Moderna started looking at children 16 years of age and older and then dropped their age down to 12. So, we really started with the 12 year olds of almost a year ago. But those studies were really slowly, just what we call phase one trials to look at the dosing and the effects.

[20:35:10]

We really, in earnest, have started this year in the big trials for children, what we call the phase two and three trials where we're really giving vaccine to large numbers of children, tracking them for two months or longer to make sure that not only does the vaccine work, but that it's safe and effective.

So, I would say that we're just about done right now with the Pfizer studies, with the -- with the number of children that we hope we can submit to Pfizer for some consideration this fall. So, I think we've started in earnest earlier this year, but really are coming to a hopefully a rapid close to the first phase of this stage of vaccine review and approval.

BROWN: That is encouraging. A lot of parents are anxious, seeing the number of reports about kids getting sick and going to the hospital. What is it about this current surge that seems to be impacting kids more than COVID did earlier points in the pandemic?

MALDONADO: Well, I think the issue here is a little different than what we saw last year, and that we have so many people that are vaccinated in certain parts of the country. So, if you look what's happening around the country, the number of cases is going up overall. But as you heard earlier, it is largely being driven. I mean, almost 90 percent plus being driven by the unvaccinated individuals, but then you're going to have collateral damage among vaccinated people as well, who may not get sick and may spread to their families, for example. So, then what happens again, is children who can't be vaccinated those under 12, we're just going to see more infections there because they're unwittingly being exposed.

We don't have any evidence at this point that the vaccines aren't working, or even that the virus is worse in children right now. What we're just seeing is that more and more people are getting infected because this virus is so transmissible, and the vast majority of these infections, as you know, are happening in parts of the country where people just aren't getting vaccinated in high enough numbers.

BROWN: And that's just another important message that you are putting out there for eligible adults to get vaccinated because the children, we are seeing more children end up in the hospital because of those who are choosing not to get the vaccine for whatever reason.

Dr. Maldonado, thank you so much, appreciate it.

MALDONADO: It's a pleasure.

BROWN: Coming up, migrants crossing the border illegally into the U.S. July saw the highest number in two decades. But the Biden administration still won't call it a crisis. More on that, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:40:29]

BROWN: The Biden administration has been ordered to bring back a Trump-era border policy. The so-called remain in Mexico rule. A federal judge's ruling late last night could mean tens of thousands of undocumented migrants in this country will be returned to wait months, if not years in dangerous conditions.

This latest challenge for the White House comes after a month with a record number of border crossings. Just yesterday, I asked Homeland Security Secretary, Alejandro Mayorkas, what's being done to avoid reaching a breaking point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, U.S. HOMELAND SECRETARY: We are working with the countries of origin, not only in addressing the root causes, not only in developing safe, orderly, and humane alternative pathways for people to seek relief under United States law. Not only are we working with those countries and with Mexico in those regards, but we are also working together to interdict irregular migration and to attack the smuggling organizations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Our Nick Valencia tonight on the fallout from the border surge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAYORKAS: We are facing a serious challenge at our southern border. And the challenges, of course, made more acute and more difficult because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A surge in migrant traffic unseen in over two decades. An unprecedented number of migrants are escaping worsening conditions in their home countries, braving the summit of the sweltering summer heat. Global temperatures in July, the hottest on record. Last month alone, over 212,000 apprehensions were made along the border during a time of the year when numbers historically drop.

The astronomical numbers were helped by repeat offenders. An estimated 27 percent of July crossings were made by those who tried and failed to cross in the last year due to a Trump-era policy that allowed authorities to turn migrants away at the border. Pleas from the Secretary of Homeland Security to migrants not to come to the U.S., warning they will be denied entry or expelled not enough to deter those seeking refuge.

MAYORKAS: It is critical that intending migrants understand clearly that they will be turned back if they enter the United States illegally and do not have a basis for relief under our laws.

VALENCIA: Customs and Border Protection also managing an unprecedented wave of unaccompanied Children, with almost 19,000 arriving and arrested at the border in July, surpassing the previous record set in March when border facilities were overcrowded and flooded with minors, who waited on average over 120 hours in Border Patrol custody.

[20:45:16]

MAYORKAS: Just as we did with the challenge of unaccompanied children in March of this year, we have a plan, we are executing our plan, and that takes time.

VALENCIA: The Biden administration has been careful not to call the border surge a crisis. Instead, insisting the real problem involves diagnosing and addressing the conditions of migrants are fleeing.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The crisis in Central America, the dire circumstances that many are fleeing from, that he -- that that is a situation we need to spend our time, our effort on, and we need to address it if we're going to prevent more of an influx of migrants from coming in years to come.

VALENCIA: But for some who live along the southern border, that is not good enough.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hire more immigration judges, more asylum officers to process these asylums faster.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: CNNs Nick Valencia reporting there.

Well, the Delta variant is throwing a wrench into the country's recovery plan. So, what can we do safely? Dr. Wen is standing by ready to answer your questions, that's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:50:50]

BROWN: As children go back to school, the Delta variant is going right along with them. How do you keep your kids as safe as possible even if your school isn't mandating masks?

Joining me now is CNN medical analyst, Dr. Leana Wen, former Baltimore Health Commissioner and the author of "Lifelines: A Doctor's Journey in The Fight for Public Health." Congratulations on your book, Dr. Wen.

You are a mom, you have young children. Would you send your unvaccinated child back to school in a district that doesn't require masks?

LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's really hard because at this point, Pamela, we know what works in order to get our kids back in school full-time, in-person, and to keep them safe at the same time. We can do this. And what I would say is for parents who are in schools where masks are not required, one thing to do is to try to talk to other parents in your child's class and see if you can make mask- wearing a norm. Maybe the majority of kids in that class could be wearing a mask.

Also, quality of masks really matters. And so, don't send your child to school with a cloth face covering. Use at least a three-ply surgical mask, and ideally, an N95 or KN95 if your child is old enough and can tolerate it.

BROWN: We also have some viewer questions for you, Dr. Wen. One viewer is asking, are we seeing more childhood cases including severe cases, because this variant is far more contagious, and thus, lots more kids infected or because kids actually are more vulnerable to infection with Delta and also more vulnerable to serious disease from it?

WEN: Seems like it's more likely the former, as in there is just so much virus all around the country, and that's why so many people are getting infected, including children. Also, the proportion of children when it comes to the percentage of people who are unvaccinated is now higher, because older individuals tend to be vaccinated. So that's why we're seeing a higher proportion of children getting ill. Although there are some data to suggest that children and adults may get sicker because of the Delta variant than with the original strains too.

BROWN: Yes, it's really concerning all these kids ending up in the ICU with the Delta variant. I want to ask you this. This is another viewer question, it's been on my mind too. Is it still safe to dine in restaurants or go to the beach crowded hearing that the virus is more transmissible in larger viral load?

WEN: With unvaccinated children, I would definitely not bring them to indoor areas where there are other potentially unvaccinated and unmasked people around, so that includes indoor dining. I would say if you really want to go out to eat, of course, takeout is the safest, but also outdoor dining where tables are separated with good distancing. And it's clearly outdoors that is going to be much, much safer than indoors.

Beaches, parks, other outdoor areas remain relatively safe. I just would try to avoid places where you just cannot get away from people. If you're in a very, very patch location with people for prolonged periods of time, that definitely increases risk.

BROWN: All right. So, what is the status of the research trials on kids younger than 12? One viewer says, I'm very nervous. My state has prevented schools and municipalities from mandating masks. I'm hoping it is soon.

WEN: I hope it's soon as well. We don't have much transparency from the FDA. And I think they owe us that at this point. We definitely want to make sure that the research is that we are not taking any shortcuts when it comes to the approval process. But we're also hearing that Pfizer did submit some data, but the FDA is saying we need more data. Well, how much more? How many -- why is it that they want to prolong this process considering that the risk-benefit analysis has changed?

Now, that we have the Delta variant and so much virus all around the country, we really want to expedite the vaccine development. Hopefully, this will be done sometime this fall at least for the five to 11-year-old group. But I'm also hearing reports that it may be at the end of this calendar year.

BROWN: All right. We'll be watching all of that closely. Dr. Leana Wen, as always, thank you so much. And, again, congratulations on your new book that is out.

WEN: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, Afghanistan is in chaos tonight as Taliban control titans and the U.S. scrambles to get its allies to safety.

[20:55:00]

Up next, CNN gets exclusive access to a former U.S. base that is now home to Taliban fighters.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Afghanistan in chaos, as Taliban controlled titans and the U.S. scrambles to rescue its allies.