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Afghan Government Falls As Taliban Take Kabul; Biden Expected to Address Afghanistan Crisis in Next Few Days; Former Afghan President Ghani's Legacy. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired August 16, 2021 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[01:00:13]

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. Appreciate your company. I'm Michael Holmes.

Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM:

Scenes of chaos in Afghanistan as people clamor to be evacuated. America's longest war ends in collapse.

And, Afghanistan's president has fled the country as the Taliban take Kabul. We'll take a look back at his complicated legacy.

Plus, CNN on the ground in Haiti, where the death toll is climbing from this weekend's devastating earthquake.

(MUSIC)

HOLMES: Welcome, everyone.

The Afghan army has collapsed, the central government has fallen, and if nothing changes, the Taliban look to be the new rulers of Afghanistan. The militants wrapped up a blistering advance against major cities over the weekend, ending in the surrender of Kabul. Ousted President Ashraf Ghani fled the country.

And this video that you're looking at from al Jazeera shows heavily armed Taliban, looking very comfortable in the presidential palace.

Now, the U.S. military withdrawal, setting up the Taliban takeover, and all of the embassy personnel have been evacuated to the airport. And many other countries have followed suit. This was the Kabul Green Zone earlier, the former hub of military and diplomatic activity now a ghost town.

But things have been very different at the airport.

Gunfire ringing out earlier as these crowds raced to try to catch a flight out of Kabul. There were too many people and not enough planes.

It was a chaotic scene the night before, too, as you can see there. This is the tarmac, not outside of the airport, by the way. The U.S. says up to 6,000 U.S., troops have now secured the airport to help Americans leave.

America's a top diplomatic defending the administration's decision to withdraw troops from Afghanistan, as Kabul's fall sparked strong criticism.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken also rejecting any comparisons between scenes unfolding in the Afghan capital and those scene in Saigon in 1975, at the end of the Vietnam War. Those two images there, though, visually at least tell a different story.

CNN's Jake Tapper asked Blinken about that on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: President Biden is intent on avoiding a Saigon moment, that's a reference, of course, to the hasty and humiliating U.S. evacuation from Vietnam. But with this troop surge to airlift Americans out of Afghanistan, aren't we already in the midst of a Saigon moment?

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: No, we're not. Remember, this is not Saigon. We went to Afghanistan, 20 years, ago with one mission. And that mission was to deal with the folks who attacked us on 9/11, and we've succeeded in that mission. The objective that we set, bringing those who attacked those who brought us to justice, and making sure they can attack us again from Afghanistan. We succeeded in that mission. And in, fact we succeeded a while ago.

And at the same time, the remaining in Afghanistan for another one, five, 10 years is not in the national interest. You know, the British were there for the long in the 19th century. The Russians were there for a long time in the 20th century. We've been there twice as long as the Russians. And how that's in our national interest? I don't see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And CNN's Anna Coren has reported extensively from Afghanistan, including a recent trip there. She joins me now from Hong Kong for the latest on the Taliban takeover.

And, Anna, you know, what do we know about what is happening at street level, right now, in Kabul? And importantly, what's the next few days might bring? What are the expectations?

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, Michael, from the people that I am speaking to on the ground, who've woken up to Kabul, now controlled by the Taliban. They say that it is a relatively peaceful, that they can see Taliban members roaming the street. Some shops are open, traffic is quite limited, but most people are staying at home.

The person I spoke to, in particular, who has worked with us at CNN over the years, I mean, he is terrified as to what will happen to him and his family. He has received threats over the past months, years. Now, the Taliban are in control, what's to say that they are going to honor their word? That they would forgive everybody who worked for foreign organizations? For the U.S. military? [01:05:01]

You know, no one is taking the Taliban at face value.

Michael, I just learned as well, a security chat that was being administered by the Ministry of the Interior, that has now been taken over by the Taliban. So, a message went out to a short time ago, saying that the Taliban were going to be sending members to the airport to get rid of those people who have rushed their, without visas, without paperwork, so they can get the flights back up and running. That is what I was hearing from our sources on the ground.

HOLMES: Right, right.

And as we said at the beginning, you and I both spent time in Afghanistan over the years, gotten to know the people. Life for them is definitely going to change. It's the question of how much it will change.

Do you hear from people who fear that what has been gained in freedoms over 20 years is now lost?

COREN: Look, for women in particular, it is absolutely terrifying. The gains that have been made in the last 20 years, you know, are extraordinary. You've got women walking the streets, you know, just in hijab, in head scarf, they are going to work.

They are members or they were members, I should say, of the government, of the police force. There were teachers, doctors. I mean, what is going to happen to all these women? Let alone the girls, the millions of girls who've received in education, who that gone on to university?

You know, when I was there last month, Michael, I spent time with a young journalism student, the Kabul university, and she said, I want to be a journalist like you. You know, what hope does she have? She doesn't have a visa to get out of Afghanistan.

You know, as far as she knows, she will be confined to her home, and when she goes out, she will have to wear a burqa, and accompanied by a male relative. I mean, you are talking about sending women's rights back to the Dark Ages.

HOLMES: There is an entire generation of young people there who have grown up without the Taliban who, you know, their future is uncertain.

Anna Coren, good to see you, my friend. Thanks for that.

One person who has been noticeably absent so far, U.S. President Joe Biden. Instead, officials from his administration have been doing the talking for him.

But a senior official says that Mr. Biden will address the nation in the next few days.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond with more from Washington. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, as the U.S.- backed government of Afghanistan crumbled in Kabul on Sunday, and the Taliban swept in to the presidential palace, President Joe Biden was nowhere to be seen or heard.

Instead, it was Secretary of State Tony Blinken who is the administration's top spokesman on this issue and, for the first time, admitting that the U.S., at a minimum, miscalculated the situation in Afghanistan, saying that he expected, that the U.S. administration expected that those Afghan security forces who have been trained and equipped for nearly two decades now by the United States, that they crumbled in the face of this Taliban offensive, far quicker than the United States expected. He, said more quickly than we anticipated, were the words of Tony Blinken.

As for the president, plans are underway for him to address the nation, at some point, in the coming days, but it's not clear yet exactly when.

The president on Sunday was at the presidential retreat at Camp David, where you can see in this picture, the president, on Sunday morning, alone at Camp David, at this big conference table. But on the screen in front of, him you can see the secretary of defense, the secretary of state, in the national security adviser, and dozens of other national security officials in Washington and around the world. Certainly, the White House's effort to show that he is on top of the situation, even as we were seeing this pretty chaotic scene unfolding in the streets of Kabul, and certainly at the airport where foreigners, as well as Afghanis, we're trying to flee the country, as the Taliban enter the country.

Of course, this question of a miscalculation is something that the president will have to address.

Here's President Biden, just over a month ago, talking about the fact that he believes a Taliban taking over Afghanistan was highly unlikely.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped, as well equipped as any army in the world. And, an air force, again something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable.

The jury is still out. But the likelihood that there will be the Taliban over running everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely.

DIAMOND: Now, officials have made clear that President Biden has not had second thoughts about his decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan, but clearly, the security situation rapidly deteriorating in that country. Not only did the president on Saturday decide to send an additional thousand troops on top of the 3,000 that he had ordered in the day before.

[01:10:04]

But on Sunday, the Department of Defense, announcing that another thousand troops will go to Afghanistan. That will bring the total U.S. troops in Afghanistan to 6,000, to assist with securing the airport in Kabul, and assisting with the evacuation of U.S. personnel, as well as many of those special immigrant visas, and with those Afghan translator, to help the U.S. military, and are now desperately trying to get out of that country.

So, certainly, a rapidly unfolding situation and the president expected to address the nation in the coming days.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: CNN political and national security analyst, David Sanger, joins me now from the Vermont. He is also a White House and national security correspondent for "The New York Times".

David, great to have your analysis on this.

So, what got me was the administration pushing back on comparisons to Saigon, yet helicopters have literally been faring U.S. diplomats and staff to the airport. They have been shredding documents, taking down flags, chaos at the airport.

I mean, it's not Saigon maybe, but it's certainly a pretty embarrassing exit, isn't it?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It certainly is, Michael. It's not Saigon because they were able to do this in a somewhat more orderly way, in which there is very few signs of them being killed in the streets of Kabul, at least far, and we should consider that to be good news.

But, you know, it was only a few months ago that President Biden, himself, raised with his aides in the Oval Office, the fact that they needed to avoid the imagery of a panic departure from Kabul. And if you think about what he said only about five weeks ago, it's pretty clear that he did not see this coming.

He said on July 8 that there was no way that you are going to see a horrid departure from the American embassy in Afghanistan. He said that he believed that the Afghan security forces were far stronger and far more capable than the Taliban. That may have been the case, but they didn't use that capability, they basically picked up and surrendered. And thus, and event that Biden thought that he, had maybe, 18 months to worry about, happened in a matter of weeks and days.

HOLMES: Exactly. I mean, I found it interesting, too, the secretary of state, Anthony Blinken, insisting the Afghan mission was successful. You know, the mission was to stop terror attacks from Afghanistan for 20 years, that's fine. But in what other universe was it a success as the Taliban takes over and drives around Kabul in American Humvees, other than societal gains which now almost certainly will be lost?

SANGER: Right. A good number of them were lost, prior to this time.

You know, I think that the core of the Biden argument has three elements to it. One of them is no sense in continuing a war, that you are not likely to win. In other words, Biden has said, staying in additional year, or five years, isn't likely to have a different result.

I think the second argument that you have been hearing from them is that the Afghans have to be able to defend themselves. And the United States can't be in a position of wanting to defend the country more than the Afghan forces do.

The third argument you are hearing and perhaps the most potent one to American voters, is this isn't the battle we need to be fighting right now. We need to be thinking about competitiveness with China, we need to be thinking about China's expansionary visions in the Indo-Pacific, we need to think about Russian disruptions, we don't need to get involved in the middle of a civil war.

But that said, the imagery of this experiment coming unwound so quickly, because they didn't sequence correctly how they got people, including interpreters, out of the country, how they got forces out of the country, how they got diplomats out of the country, that's pretty embarrassing.

HOLMES: And, you know, certainly, the interpreters -- which is, you know, a sort of mine for years now. I mean, a lot of them, thousands, will probably die because of this.

I want -- and to that point, I want to ask you, you know, the U.S. and others talk about their unwavering commitment to the Afghan people. But, is that -- it's kind of meaningless now? I mean, the Afghan people are, essentially, on their own now, aren't they?

SANGER: Pretty much. I mean, first, it is our duty of care for those, people who worked for the United States, or worked for journalistic organizations, CNN, and then "The New York Times", where I work. They have made use of many Afghan interpreters, fixers, and others.

[01:15:03]

Somebody's got to make sure they get out, and what happened was, only 2,000 had really been removed from Afghanistan, out of a population that's probably 10 times that by the time that Kabul fell. So, they are behind the 8 ball on that.

A big question about why the embassy of 4,000, including 1,400 Americans, wasn't dramatically reduced and size, much earlier. Since everybody has known since February of 2020, when President Trump signed his deal that we were getting out.

HOLMES: Yeah, seems to be a dearth of organization and planning. I do -- I do fear for those translators and fixers and others, some of whom just couldn't get to Kabul in time. David, we got to leave it their unfortunately. David Sanger, I really

appreciate it.

SANGER: Great to be with you. Thanks so much, Michael.

HOLMES: Still to come here on the program, Afghanistan's president has fled the country as the Taliban took Kabul. We'll take a look back at what is a complicated legacy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Welcome back.

Now, with the Taliban seizing power, the fate of Afghan women and girls, of course, hangs in the balance now as we've been discussing, as to the hard-fought freedoms and rights they've had. Now, there's concern the militants will reintroduce their misogynistic and archaic rule from the '90s. Girls and women were barred from almost all work, the right to vote, and access to education.

One activist says it is already happening again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHBOUBA SERAJ, WOMEN'S RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I came to Afghanistan, to bring a voice, to the voiceless women of my country. All of those women, they are living in the provinces of Afghanistan, all the way back in the districts, and nobody hears their voices, and they are in dire need of help. They are poor, they are not educated. Their children are dying because they are sick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, since the U.S. ousted the Taliban 20 years ago, thousands of girls, just like, these have attended school. Many went to university, got great jobs.

But in recent months, of course, human rights groups have been documenting that women are being blocked, or have really persuaded, or dissuaded, at least, from getting an education in Taliban controlled areas.

[01:20:06]

And, if they do, it's religious studies only.

As CNN's Clarissa Ward has reported, this could be the beginning of a rollback, in all of those gains for women's rights, that have been made over two decades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I've been talking to some of the women in this room, and I promise that I wouldn't show any of their faces, but it's interesting because, you know, the Taliban talks a lot about how it's changed, and girls can go to school now. But I asked if any of these girls would be going to school, and I was told, absolutely not. Girls don't go to school. And when I said "why don't girls go to school," they said, "Taliban says it's bad."

(END VIDEO LCIP)

HOLMES: Joining me now is Pashtana Durrani. She's an activist, as well as the founder and executive director of LEARN. A nonprofit focusing on girls education.

It's good to see you again, I'm sorry about the circumstances.

The Taliban say they will respect the rights of women and girls can go to school. That is open to massive interpretation, which rights, of course.

What is your expectation and your fear?

PASHTANA DURRANI, FOUNDER & EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LEARN: Thank you for having me.

I -- first of all, I want to highlight the fact that I'm not afraid. I am not afraid for the fact that I'm educated. I know my rights even if it's not in their dictionary, there are rights for women and for girls of Afghanistan.

The second thing is, the things that get worried and the things that I'm expecting right now is for them to accept that general education matters, general curriculum matters, girls getting into schools, studying to grade 12, and then pursuing a professional education is important to us, and should be accepted and should be something that should have been accessible in the past, and now, right?

So, these are the expectations that I have, and we have to push for those.

HOLMES: You know, for the girls who were talking to, I mean, do they fear that they won't be allowed to go to school? I mean, what will they be allowed to study outside of religious class? Go to school, but to what age?

I mean, what are girls telling you? That, you know, 20 years of education might be for nothing.

DURRANI: I cannot begin to show you the WhatsApp stories, the Instagram stories, the Twitter messages that I keep getting from a university fellows, from the students that I have worked with. All of my dreams, all of my goals are -- I'm unable to pursue them, all for nothing, all for nothing. This the word that kept on -- the sentence kept on repeating in my head, last night.

So, all these girls, all these people who've been to universities, who have seen universities, who have seen schools, who know that there is a world beyond conflict, right, they want to pursue their education.

So, I'm worried about those girls and this is not just me, my demand or my act, there are millions of girls who are asking the same thing. They are just afraid to ask because the way the Taliban have treated in the past people asking for their rights.

HOLMES: I heard -- I heard you say earlier today that you'd been weeping the whole day. Are you worried about your own safety? You say you're not afraid, but are you worried about your own safety, or the safety of others like you, who've been vocal in supporting women's rights?

DURRANI: See, my eyes are swollen from tears. I haven't -- I don't have any more tears left in me.

So, I'm just warning my country right now, just by being vocal right now. See, the thing, is right now, Afghanistan is in (INAUDIBLE) another, what do we call it, going back in the '90s, right? I am worried about the women who are vocal, but more important about -- more worried about the girls who cannot talk, who don't have platform, who cannot represent themselves.

I am vocal. There are many like me, vocal, who will get the world's attention. But then there are girls who don't have access to media, who don't have access to any international platform, who cannot access their schools, I'm worried about those girls more because, that's where -- that's the statue of limitations.

Those are the girls that we should be talking about, should be worried about because, nobody is going to raise their voice. They cannot raise their voice. Those are the girls we should be talking about, and we should be attentive, they are losing their rights.

HOLMES: The thing is that, you know, there is a generation of young people, anyone who's 20 or under who have grown up not personally knowing Taliban rule. How might those young people react to the restrictions which are almost certainly coming?

DURRANI: The majority of the people are fleeing. I was talking, yesterday, to my staff member and he tells me, he's around 21. He just graduated and he tells me, he's like, for the first time, I saw these people, and I'm not very fond of them, I want to leave.

Another staff member, he keeps on telling me, he's like, you know, I went through all this in the '90s, I don't want my son to go through this. So get me out as soon as possible.

These people, they don't want to stay.

[01:25:01]

They don't want to react. They know the horrifying stories. They see that death is one day, but living is every day. So, they don't want to live in a restricted area where everything is policed, everything has to be told, in accordance to what others think. And, if you question them, if you ask for your rights, your throat will be slit (ph).

So, you have to understand, the Taliban don't have a very good track of, like, keeping their word at the moment, or in the past. So, even from yesterday, they have changed their presidents (ph) like a million times.

So, we have to understand the fact people will react, but by fleeing, by being vocal about it, by going into hiding, by doing anything and everything so that they don't have to abide by the rules of the Taliban.

HOLMES: You are an eloquent and courageous advocate, and I thank you very much, for your passion, and your bravery.

Pashtana Durrani, thank you.

DURANNI: Thank you for having me.

HOLMES: Brave young woman.

Former Afghan President Ashraf Ghani said he felt that leaving the country was the best choice. Quote: In order to avoid the flood of bloodshed, and for that, he is being slammed by critics and former political allies alike, for abandoning his country.

Nic Robertson takes a look back at Ghani's presidency, and the legacy he leaves.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Long before reaching Kabul, the Taliban were warning Afghan President Ashraf Ghani, his days in leadership were running out, rocketing Eid prayers in July, attacking another outdoor presidential address early last year.

But in recent days, as the Taliban closed in in Kabul, Ghani's silence finally signaled his concerns. His administration, unprepared, just as the Afghan people were looking for leadership and international allies waiting for a plan.

It was just Saturday, with only a few cities left under government control, and the rest seized by the Taliban during their rapid in advance that Ghani, finally, addressed the nation.

ASHRAF GHANI, FORMER AFGHAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I will do my best to prevent this imposed war on the Afghan people result in further killing of innocent people, loss of your achievements over the last 20 years, destruction of public infrastructure, and prolonged instability.

ROBERTSON: Notably, he didn't resign, something the Taliban have been demanding, for months, but said he was in urgent talks with local leaders and international partners.

The embattled president, not seeming to grasp with the Taliban, staring down on the capitol, the army, not willing to fight, that he had little power to do anything, but leave.

One of the last blows to his presidency, the fall of stronghold, Mazar-i-Sharif. He visited the city, early in the week, to try to rally support, which was rapidly eroding across the country.

It's a bitter outcome for the former World Bank employee, who gave up his U.S. citizenship after the September 11th attacks, to return to Afghanistan to help rebuild his home country. He became Afghanistan's president in 2014, following two terms in office by Hamid Karzai, who led the country after the fall of the Taliban in 2001.

But, Ghani came to power in a contested vote where he was accused of voter fraud. The U.S., eventually brokered a power sharing deal with rival, Abdullah Abdullah, in which Ghani was declared president.

One of his last acts, before leaving Kabul on Sunday, a security call to appeal for calm.

GHANI (through translator): I have guided the defense ministry to take full responsibility for the security of all residents.

Secondly, the people who are making noise about rioting, looting, and killing? We will deal with them with full force.

ROBERTSON: His critics, who have long believed him to be to controlling, blasting his departure, saying that he abandoned his country to a dire future.

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, CHAIRMAN, HIGH COUNCIL FOR NATIONAL RECONCILIATION: God will hold him accountable. And, the people of Afghanistan will also judge him.

ROBERTSON: Afghanistan's acting defense minister, tweeting: They tied our hands behind our backs and sold the homeland, damn the rich man and his gang.

[01:29:43]

Ghani always had a contentious relationship with the Taliban. They viewed him as a puppet of the Americans.

On social media, Ghani said he left to avoid further bloodshed. But in the end, he ran before the Taliban took control, potentially escaping the fate of a previously deposed Afghan president, whose beaten, lifeless body ended up hanging from a pole.

Nic Robertson, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up here on CNN, Afghan civilians have the most to lose with the Taliban takeover. Thousands have already fled the violence this year. We'll have more on their plight when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Welcome back to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. Now, our top story, of course, the race to leave Kabul as the Taliban takeover. The militants, wrapping up a blistering advance against major cities ending up in the Afghan capital. The central government has collapsed. The ousted president, Ashraf Ghani, has fled the country.

This video from al Jazeera shows heavily armed Taliban fighters lounging comfortably, in the presidential palace.

[01:34:50]

HOLMES: Now, the Taliban's descent on Kabul, triggered panic. This was the scene at Kabul's airport, earlier. Gunfire rang out as crowds rushed to catch a flight out of Kabul. There were way too many people, and not enough flights.

A different scene in the green zone. The U.S. and other countries evacuating their embassy staff, and this former hub of diplomatic and military activity, a ghost town.

Afghan civilians are already paying the price of a Taliban takeover, losing their homes, belongings and security. The U.N. says there are already five million internally-displaced Afghan civilians and more than 550,000 have lost their homes this year alone.

Neighboring Pakistan has already taken in more than one million Afghan refugees. Meanwhile, Turkey's president says the country will work with Pakistan to help stabilize Afghanistan and prevent a new wave of Afghan migrants.

For more regional reaction CNN's Arwa Damon joins me from Istanbul, Turkey. But first let's get to Sofia Saifi in Islamabad, Pakistan.

And Sofia, Pakistan has long had an interest in Afghanistan. The Haqqani Network is in Pakistan, other Taliban representatives too. Fighters crisscross across the border.

What will be Pakistan's role now the Taliban is going to be running Afghanistan again?

SOFIA SAIFI, CNN PRODUCER: Well, I'll tell you Michael, what's happening right now in Pakistan is that its leaders, both civilian and military are very concerned. They've said it consistently about what is going to happen with the Pakistan Taliban.

Now we know, according to -- you know, we do know that the Pakistan Taliban which have been known to operate out of Afghanistan had been responsible for a lot of attacks here in Pakistan.

And we also know, like you said, is that Pakistan has had its own relationship with the Afghan Taliban. And there's always been that dichotomy between the good and bad Taliban.

Now the question is now rising with whoever good and bad Taliban anymore. I mean, you know, CNN interviewed the head of the Pakistan Taliban recently to talk about, you know, whether they'll have better relations with the Afghan Taliban and they said that they would.

So the concerns in Pakistan are about security, about what this new relationship with the Afghan Taliban is going to be now that they have so much more power and they don't really need to depend on Pakistan to operate as an intermediary.

Pakistan has also said that it's unfair the way the U.S. has just left without a settlement. There is a major meeting planned this afternoon. The national security committee is having a meeting. This will include all of the top civilian leadership, all of the top military leadership.

The military have been quite quiet in the past four days. The last statement that was made by the chief of army staff is that Pakistan has done its best in ensuring that there is peace in Afghanistan. Pakistan wants peace in Afghanistan because of its relationship with China.

Because it want stability in Central Asia, Pakistan is saying that there has to be stability in Afghanistan for Pakistan's economic prosperity for all of its deals with China which involve access to Afghanistan -- ports, there needs to be stability next door.

There has been a heightened security alert in the country. There was a terrorist attack in the city of Karachi only a couple of days ago. So there is again, just a sense of trepidation of what is going to happen in the days to come, Michael.

HOLMES: Trepidation seems to be a common word at the moment in the region. Thanks so much. Do stay with us though, Sophia.

Arwa Damon in Istanbul. Arwa -- the second biggest refugee group in Turkey after Syrians are Afghans. What are the expectations of more coming over the border? And how is Turkey dealing with it?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is obviously, Michael, among the concerns that Turkey does have and it is keeping a very close eye on its border with Iran.

But as of this moment we are not seeing this massive influx. And that is largely because the roads are blocked, Michael, you know. As you've been reporting and so many others have been reporting, people don't have the option of being able to really get out en masse at least.

And you know, that's probably one of the most gutting things in all of this or at least among one of the most gutting things in all of this, is that that choice, that Afghan's should have been able to have, to be able to leave, to not want to live under Taliban rule, that has been taken away from them.

Even those that would have been fortunate enough to have a passport, to have a visa, to be able to get on a plane and get out. The U.S. has also taken that choice away from them by effectively controlling the airspace, stopping civilian flights.

[01:39:53] DAMON: Right now it's military flights only as far as we understand and by literally pointing their guns at Afghan civilians who are trying to get out of the country.

And so from the perspective of many, not only has America fully betrayed Afghanistan, but it has now also stolen those who would want to be able to flee. That option has been stolen from them, Michael.

And a lot of these countries right now are talking about how they prevent an influx of migrants as opposed to talking about how they actually protect the population that is trapped inside Afghanistan.

HOLMES: Yes, exactly. I wanted to get your thoughts too quickly on, you know, what is Turkey's role in a regional sense. Its influence in Afghanistan and desired influence perhaps?

DAMON: Look, Turkey has been growing its role on a regional and also to a certain degree international scale as being something of a moderator, a go-between.

You know, Turkey has an interesting relationship, potentially, with the Taliban. If you look at the rhetoric that was coming out prior to this rapid takeover of Kabul, you know, Turkey was talking about being the country that provides security for the Kabul International Airport.

The Taliban had put out a statement that was based on, you know, their past rhetoric. Fairly softly-worded saying that they urged their Turkish Muslim brothers not to undertake that sort of adventure.

And so Turkey right now is going to be working very closely with a number of other partners, including as you were saying, as Sofia was reporting, Pakistan as well. But right now, I think again, what is very concerning is that a lot of these talks are focusing on how to, you know, quote-unquote "stabilize Afghanistan".

And the big question of course is, you know, what does that stability actually look like for the Afghan population?

And again, this goes back to this notion of, you know, choice being taken away from the population. And so, you know, Turkey is potentially wanting to be somehow involved in this.

But one also has to remember that Turkey is in a very precarious situation when it comes to the refugee crisis. There's already a big backlash against the number of Syrian refugees who are here. And so Turkey is going to want to prevent an influx from Afghanistan, Michael.

HOLMES: All right. Appreciate that Arwa Damon in Istanbul, Sofia Saifi in Islamabad. Thanks to you both for your reporting.

Now, we are getting a clearer picture of the earthquake's devastation in Haiti. And it comes as the island nation braces for a tropical depression.

CNN is on the scene. Coming up.

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HOLMES: What you're looking at there is just some of the massive devastation left behind by Saturday's powerful earthquake in Haiti. The death toll has now jumped to nearly 1,300 people and more than 5,700 are injured.

The disaster compounding problems already facing the island nation. Haiti still reeling from a political crisis following the assassination of its president last month. And now a tropical depression is approaching the country.

CNN's Matt Rivers toured some of the damage near the epicenter of the earthquake. He's in Les Cayes where he found a lot of looting and very few rescue efforts for survivors taking place.

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MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, we are not far from where the epicenter of this earthquake was. And we are here at the rubble of what was a multi story relatively luxury hotel in the Les Cayes region which is where we are right now.

And you can kind of get a scale for what happened here. And you look to the right, that would presumably be part of the roof, a part of this building that collapsed into the swimming pool that was there.

If you look further to the left you can see kind of a teetering set of columns up there that is basically very precariously perched.

And then back down here you can see an excavator, that was presumably part of the search and rescue effort that took place. According to authorities there is very much likelihood that there remain bodies in this rubble, and yet there is not really a lot of search and rescue efforts here ongoing.

What is ongoing, as you can see people walk behind me here with metal, is looting. People are coming through this site taking basically whatever they think they can sell.

Metal, we saw a dresser being taken out. It goes to the desperation in this area. This is a very poor part of Haiti that has been devastated by previous natural disasters over the last decade.

And these are opportunistic people coming here to try and take what they can get from what is no doubt a tragic scene, something that collapsed during this earthquake.

There are people that have been here trying to help. People trying to look for survivors. That is not the majority of what is happening here right now.

What you don't see here are Haitian authorities. There's no police presence. There is no firefighters. There are no search and rescue crews here. They're just people from the community and this lone excavator that is not currently in operation.

It's very indicative of what we're seeing as we drive through this area near the epicenter. A lack of authoritative stance from the government trying to help people get control of the situation.

Unfortunately this is the reality on the ground at this moment.

Matt Rivers, CNN -- in Les Cayes, Haiti.

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HOLMES: Now, as we mentioned, Haiti is bracing for a storm in the coming hours. Meteorologist Pedram Javaheri joins me now. What are you seeing in terms of past strength and when it's going to hit?

PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Michael, we're very close here, you know. We're approaching peak hurricane season in the next several weeks and this is the last thing you want to see.

We've got a tropical system by the name of Grace. You have, of course, Fred approaching the southeastern United States. Another system well out there across the western Atlantic near Bermuda.

And I want to show you exactly what's happening with Grace, because at this point the storm that was a tropical storm has weakened to a tropical depression and you can thank the tremendous amount of mountain coverage across this region.

From Puerto Rico on into the island of Hispaniola -- mountains across the island there rise as high as 10,000 feet. So you look at some 37 states across the U.S., mountain did not rise this high as you'll find here across portions of Haiti and the Dominican Republic. So again, speaks to the rugged nature of this landscape.

[01:49:54]

JAVAHERI: But that also plays a role in weakening tropical systems. Unfortunately this go around, that's the last thing we want to see because that means the tremendous amount of rainfall is coming down across the island as the system moves overhead.

And the models do bring it directly over this region, potentially bringing in as much as maybe six to eight inches, widespread across the western half of the island. And some isolated totals could exceed ten plus inches.

So this is an incredible amount of rainfall that could move in as early as Monday night and move through by Tuesday morning and Tuesday afternoon as we have search and rescue efforts still ongoing on the island.

Now, looking at the models and where the storm is forecast to move beyond this, we do expect it to move back across portions of the western Caribbean, potentially just south of Cuba. Models in the last hour, a little better agreement on potentially bringing this across portions of northern Mexico around the Yucatan and then bringing it back into the Gulf of Mexico.

Again, early in the game here a lot could change. Water temperatures very conducive across that region of the gulf to allow this system to strengthen. But you'll kind of notice what happens here, you do expect the system to at least get up to tropical storm force as it approaches either northern Mexico or southern Texas.

And then there's Fred that is expected to make landfall later on this afternoon and this evening around the Pensacola, Florida area as a tropical storm as well, Michael.

HOLMES: All right. Thanks for the update, Pedram Javaheri there. Appreciate it.

And we will be right back.

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HOLMES: And back now to our top story.

The fall of the Afghan government as the Taliban take control of Kabul. The Taliban sweeping into the capital with lightning speed on Sunday, taking over the presidential palace as former president Ashraf Ghani quickly fled the country.

[01:55:00]

HOLMES: The U.S. now urgently working to get its citizens and support staff out of the country.

But at the Kabul Airport, we are witnessing scenes like that -- chaos. Just, a short time ago gunfire ringing out as crowds rush towards flights in the hope of leaving the country. Most had no luck in doing so.

The U.S. has been expanding its troop presence at the airport in the race to evacuate U.S. and allied personnel.

Now, I first arrived in Afghanistan in January 2002. The Taliban had just left the capital and the Afghan people were incredulous, adapting to freedoms they've not known for years.

I remember meeting moviemakers whose industry had been shut down by the Taliban, films destroyed, history decimated.

One director showed me hidden wall cavities and false ceilings that they had hidden stuff away, risking their lives to hide what they could.

He insisted I take a poster for an Afghan action movie that he directed. He signed it. He wanted me to take it. It is in my home to this day. Now here is optimism burned bright, that that industry would be

reborn. And sure enough, a couple of months later I went to the first showing of a film since the Taliban had taken over the country.

Last week, Kabul hosted a film festival, might have been the last for a while. That is just one snapshot.

Back then in the early heady post Taliban days, we did stories of new hope. We did girls starting schools, some for the first time in their lives.

Women still by and large wore the burka but we interviewed others back in the workplace a few years later who did not. Joyfully and proudly doing jobs they had been forbidden to do under the Taliban.

We traveled the beautiful spectacular country. One story on training a female helicopter pilot.

I returned twice more with the U.S. military units in Kandahar as they fought the Taliban and while there were challengers and there was fighting, but there was also hope and there was change.

Today, it seems those gains, those hopes, those dreams, particularly for women and girls, might have been fleeting. The Taliban is back and likely so too their brutal misogynistic, repressive rule -- what gains, if any survive what's unfolded in these past months is a chapter yet written.

Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes.

Don't go away.

You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram @HolmesCNN.

My colleague Robyn Curnow is standing by. We'll be back with more news in just a moment.

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