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U.S. Scrambles to Evacuate Thousands of Americans, Afghans; White House Embroiled in Internal Finger-Pointing amid Afghanistan Chaos; White House Expected to Advise Booster Shots for Most Americans. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 17, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:04]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: The United States trying to help by sending a disaster response team.

Thanks for your time today on Inside Politics. We'll see you tomorrow. Ana Cabrera picks up right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thank you for being with us.

With a humanitarian catastrophe looming in Afghanistan, a new mission is suddenly all the more urgent, get Americans and U.S. allies out of there. The Pentagon says the airport in Kabul is secure, and the plan is to have one aircraft departure per hour by tomorrow. So that would mean some 5,000 to 9,000 people evacuated per day with roughly 4,000 U.S. troops close by to make sure this can all happen safely. But outside the airport perimeter still chaos, according to a former British soldier who says his wife was among those getting crushed in a stampede.

Another urgent issue the Pentagon hasn't solved, how to evacuate those who can't get to the Kabul airport. The U.S. military did reveal that it is communicating with Taliban commanders on the ground and that there have been no Taliban hostilities against Americans and U.S. operations. But that truce will have to hold to locate and rescue as many as 10,000 Americans who remain and many more Afghans who helped the U.S. We will hear from the White House at this hour as this crisis unfolds.

The Taliban are formally reintroducing themselves to the world. A short time ago they held their first official news conference since taking power. What is their message and what does it mean for the future of Afghanistan, the region and U.S. national security?

Let's bring in CNN Senior International Correspondent Sam Kiley. Sam, what did we hear from the Taliban today?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been hearing a similar set of statements from other spokesmen from the Taliban based outside of the country. This is the first time though we've seen them in that formal setting, with the Afghan flag and the Taliban flag and them laying out their counter.

Now, what they did is, first of all, say that there would be a general amnesty for all those government forces and government employees that have fought against them. This is in stark contrast to what they've been doing before in terms of threatening the lives of anybody who cooperated with the government or international community, a big statement from them.

On top of that, guaranteeing that women and female children, young girls can continue their education, that women could continue to work, but all of this being couched, Ana, with term, under Sharia law. And I think that's one of the things that will really cause shutters, particularly for people in urban areas who have committed to a modern Afghan state.

They don't want to return to life under the Taliban. Those who remember it from 20 years ago will recall a very medieval landscape but the spokesman also saying, though the ideology of the Taliban had not changed but in his words had matured, Ana.

CABRERA: The picture that's emerging here, Sam, is that the Taliban is better armed, better equipped than ever perhaps and apparently they have learned the importance P.R. This seems like a dangerous combination.

KIELY: They've learning the importance of P.R. for some time both in a public sense but also in a practical sense. Previous the opinion polls dating back more than ten years would indicate that people in Taliban-run areas had more faith, for example, in the judicial system run by the Taliban than they did in the judicial system run by the ever corrupt central government. So they've been working this very effectively at grassroots level and on the international level, though, this is the first time that they are really stepping forward.

And there are two reasons for that. The first is that they've been swept to power as a result of other people doing what Afghanistan has called turning the turban. They don't want those turban turners to turn back on them.

CABRERA: Okay. Well, Sam Kiley, we appreciate all the updates there. Again, the Taliban speaking out, we'll hear from White House administration officials, including the national security adviser here coming up later this hour.

Meantime in Washington, the blame game is happening inside the Biden administration, we are learning, as there are finger-pointing and it's all kind of shifting around this chaotic situation unfolds.

Natasha Bertrand joins us now. Natasha, what's being said?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, Ana. Well, what we're hearing is that administration officials are already beginning to try to figure out here what went wrong in getting Americans and Afghans out of the country before this kind of rushed and dangerous evacuation was ordered.

What we're told is that someone at the White House believes that the president was getting bad advice from his military and intelligence officials.

The military, in turn, saying that they had been pushing for weeks and weeks for the State Department to draw down embassy personnel at the embassy in Kabul and get people out a lot sooner so that we would not be seeing this kind of situation where it was a dire, you know, scramble to get people out.

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State department meanwhile saying that they were relying on intelligence assessments, that they believe said, gave them more time. The intelligence, of course, was fluctuating rapidly over the last couple of weeks and months saying that they had anywhere from 90 days to six months before Kabul would actually fall to the Taliban.

Intelligence community meanwhile pushing back on that saying they have long predicted that a Taliban takeover and a rapid one would be possible.

So what we're seeing now is the administration is really trying to get a grip on how this happened but they are going to have to begin to look forward as we try to get 5,000 to 10,000 Americans out of the country.

CABRERA: Thank you so much.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I stand squarely behind my decision. After 20 years of learning the hard way, that there was never a good time to withdraw U.S. forces. The truth is this did unfold more quickly than we had anticipated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: So Biden there acknowledging that this all happened much more quickly than he had thought. He has been quizzing his advisers in recent days from Camp David as to how they could have misjudged the situation so badly. Ana?

CABRERA: All right. Natasha Bertrand, I really appreciate it. Thank you.

So much to discuss. For more perspective on what's unfolding, we are joined by a pair of former Army Rangers who fought in Afghanistan, Tom Amenta and Dan Blakeley. They are also the authors of The Twenty-Year War, which is out on 9/11. Gentlemen, thank you, first and foremost, for you service and for taking time to speak with us today.

Dan, the president called what's happening there in Afghanistan what the world is witnessing gut-wrenching. What do you call it? DAN BLAKELEY, CO-AUTHOR, THE TWENTY-YEAR WAR: I would agree, gut-

wrenching, horrifying, sad. I mean, it's something you don't want to see when you put so much effort, money, lives into reforming a government and trying to establish something that's going to provide security to the region, freedom for the people that live there and the rights that really we stand on with our ideals and the American way. And it's just unfortunate to see it unfold as it has.

CABRERA: Absolutely. And, Tom, for both of you, I know this is personal because you have spent time there. You have served the country and tried to make Afghanistan a better place, a safer place. What's been going through your mind, Tom, just in the past few days?

TOM AMENTA, CO-AUTHOR, THE TWENTY-YEAR WAR: Well, Dan is the much more level headed than the two of us and my blood has just been raging. I don't know another way to put it. I'm so angry. And with every report, even the one that you just had from the White House, I get angrier. Because to start, Afghanistan is the only place we have counterterrorism operations right now in this country that he's choosing his tactic.

We have roughly 2,000 soldiers deployed to Iraq, advisers and military or intelligence assets, roughly 900 in Syria, we're starting to reestablish the horn of Africa in the same way, all places, by the way, that the Biden administration in their speech yesterday acknowledged that we have problems. So before I even get to anything -- I just don't fundamentally understand how we can have three of the four major places that we're fight and doing counterterrorism operations have one policy and then here we have a totally different one.

Then to see Afghanis, Afghan people falling from C-17s because they are so desperate to get out to hear that we have, as of the past couple of hours, commanding controlling elements of the 82nd Airborne now being deployed because we have 6,000 troops in Afghanistan, we only had 2,500 in May, it's on every single level.

I think it's more than sad. I think it's infuriating. I think it's complete mismanagement. And I think that the administration still owes the American people an honest answer, if not, how fast can everyone do the Potomac Two Step and blame somebody else?

CABRERA: Dan, I'm wondering if you were hearing that message as well from other members, service members who were there or is it sort of a mixed perspective on what's taking place and the U.S. role in this country.

BLAKELEY: It's definitely a mixed message and a lot of veterans are going to process it completely different. One thing I've learned from interviewing 71 veterans in The Twenty-Year War is that everybody has a different perspective. Everybody is going to process things differently.

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But what I will tell the American veteran, especially those that have served in the last 20 years and fought in Afghanistan and the gold star families who have witnessed their children and loved ones pass and to the American people who just don't know how to process this, was it worth it? Yes, it was. You know, our mission at the time it was very important.

What we did and what we provided to the Afghan population was incredibly valuable to them. We see how much they gained in the last 20 years and I think that's why it's so heart-wrenching to see it go back close to the same way it was 20 years ago.

CABRERA: Tom, do you think it was worth it?

AMENTA: I do. And that was a question I initially wrestled with until a friend of mine hit me up with a messaged me to see how I was doing. And as she was asking and I was telling her how upset I was and frustrated, and she pointed out the me over 20 years there hasn't been another 9/11-style attack and that there has been a relatively peace in the United States and a lot of the world that was more or less free of major incidents.

And her point was, you know, she got married, she raised her children, her father got to see his grandson and she's like, I can't imagine how you and all the other veterans feel around the world that have tried to fight this fight. But at the end of the day, we didn't fear things that we're starting to fear of a resurgence of terrorism in Afghanistan, of the possibility of the next 9/11 after seeing all of this happen. But her point was is that we haven't had to worry about that for the past 20 years.

And so from that metric was it worth it? Yes, it was. And our job was to go out and root those people out and try to keep America safe and I think that we did a pretty good job of that.

CABRERA: You both are amazing. Thank you for all you've done for this country and your continued voices and speaking out on behalf of veterans who served alongside you and those who continue to fight for all of us in the U.S. Thank you, Tom Amenta and Dan Blakeley, a pleasure to talk with you. Thanks again for your time. And I want to remind our viewers, their book is The Twenty-Year War due out on 9/11.

The White House set to brief all of us on Afghanistan moments from now. We'll bring that to you live.

Plus, one woman's story stuck in Afghanistan, fearing for her life under Taliban rule. Her sister made it out and joins us ahead.

And a big shift in guidance on COVID-19 booster shots, why the White House is now expected to give the green light to most Americans to get another dose.

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CABRERA: The White House set to take another big step in the fight against the coronavirus. Sources tell CNN, as soon as this week, the administration could recommend that most Americans get a booster shot eight months after becoming fully vaccinated.

CNN Senior Medical Correspondent He Elizabeth Cohen joins us. And, Elizabeth, many of us who are fully vaccinated are wondering, so, what's the reasoning now behind this decision?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Ana, actually we should be very happy with this decision. We've known for months now Dr. Fauci and others have said we may need boosters. And what they are saying is, you know what, we do need boosters. And, really, there are two reasons, or several reasons but two big ones. That is that they are finding immunity as waned. Immunity wanes over a period of time. They said approximately eight months.

And the second reason is that the vaccine has not worked as well against delta as anyone would like but what they are finding is that three shots work better against delta than two shots. So you should be glad that you're fully vaccinated. That has protected you for this period of time. Three shots will protect you even better.

And when you think about it, it's not such a big deal when you go to CVS or Walgreens or wherever to get your toothpaste and shampoo, you roll up your sleeves and get yourself this shot. It is not that big of a deal.

Let's talk about the order that this will go in. So, the first folks who will be in line for a third shot actually are already in line. Those are the immune-compromised folks and that was okayed a little while ago. And then health care workers, we think, would be among the next group, also the nursing home residents and staff and also older population.

So, two reasons for that order, one, they are the most vulnerable. You can look at that list and see that they are the most vulnerable either to infection or to getting very sick from COVID or both. Also, that group got their vaccines much longer ago. Those are among the folks who got it in December or January and so, therefore, they are coming up on their eight months.

CABRERA: That's right. The World Health Organization, however, is concerned about this decision. Why?

COHEN: You know, it really is heartbreaking when you think about it. We here in the United States are privileged enough that we have plenty of vaccine to give third shots to people who need it. That's an incredible privilege. Unfortunately, in much of the world, they can't even get a first or a second shot. That is terrible for them. And you know what, it is also not great for us because we all live on this one planet.

So let's take a listen to Maria Van Kerkove with the World Health Organizatoin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA VAN KERKOVE, WHO HEALTH EMERGENCIES PROGRAMME: So, the science is telling us that the vaccines are incredibly safe and effective at preventing severe disease and death. And so until the science tells us otherwise, our recommendation remains to make sure that those who are most at risk, older populations, those with underlying conditions and critically our health workers in all countries around the world receive that first and second dose before we do the boosters for those who don't necessarily need it right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Now, Van Kerkove has also said this is the problem with a solution. In other words, the vaccines are there, we just need to get them to people in parts of the world who need it.

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Ana?

CABRERA: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.

I want to bring in Dr. Carlos del Rio. He is the executive associate dean of Emory University School of Medicine at Grady Health System. And, Dr. del Rio, does this timeline, eight months or so, for everyone to get boosters following their first full vaccination, does this make sense to you?

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE DEAN, EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AT GRADY HEALTH SYSTEM: Well, Ana, let me just start by saying that I have not seen the data that Elizabeth mentioned that shows that people who get a third shot are more resistant against delta than those who only got two data.

We don't have data from Pfizer and Moderna, especially from Pfizer, showing waning immunity, but what we haven't seen and I personally haven't seen nor have I heard is that people who are eight months out are getting hospitalized, are getting sick more frequently are coming in with COVID more frequently.

I'm still to be convinced ad third shot is going to make a difference. Having said that, I have not reviewed the data, I'm personally eight months out from my immunization and I'm very interested to hear what the data is before I take another shot.

CABRERA: We are seeing an uptick right now in COVID cases among children. Just today, we learned of an eighth grader in Mississippi who died from COVID, was -- you know, went to the doctor with a sore throat, next day diagnosed with COVID and then died the following day. And thousands of students are now in quarantine from Florida to Tennessee, to Louisiana and Georgia. There's even one school district in Florida, in fact, that has over a thousand cases COVID itself in one district.

Admiral Brett Giroir, he's the former White House testing czar, says the U.S. is, quote, flying blind when it comes to children and COVID- 19. Do you agree?

DEL RIO: Well, I don't necessarily think we're flying blind but we're flying with (INAUDIBLE). We have governors who have actually issued mandates that school districts cannot -- are prohibited from issuing maverick mandates.

If we were doing the things the right way, which means every adult around those children, every teacher working with those schools, every person working in the school, the bus driver, everybody was vaccinated and we make sure that masks were used in school and ventilation was appropriate in the schools, we would be okay.

The problem is that we have a variety of different approaches for teachers and school staff that are not vaccinated, schools are prohibited from using -- kids are prohibited from having masks in schools. Again, we are really in a terrible situation because we don't have the appropriate response. If we want to send our kids to school, we need to do it correctly. Otherwise, we should not be doing that. We're putting kids at risk.

CABRERA: I mean, more broadly, I think Admiral Giroir was expressing frustration over a lack of data. He also worries about a lack of testing. He says he thinks the U.S. is underestimating the current number of could individual cases. He fears the actual number of new daily cases could soon reach up to 500,000 per day compared to the 200,000 number that we've heard from the NIH director. What do you think?

DEL RIO: I think we need do more testing. I don't disagree with him. There are some states in our country that have positivity rates running at 30 percent. That means they have a lot of people who are not being tested. You need to be getting below 15 percent, so you need to test enough people to actually bring your denominator up and, therefore, have less positivity rate. But I also would say that rapid testing is not being used appropriately. Many school districts could be implementing rapid testing in schools to keep the kids healthy.

So, again, we need to be doing a lot more testing and we really have not deployed testing the way we should to make our work environment and our schools safe for everybody.

CABRERA: And, still, cases are going up, now, hospitalizations are going up, deaths are going up again. In fact, over 700 deaths per day is the new average and we're seeing pop up hospitals in places, like parking garages, because of overflow due to just this influx of new COVID patients.

I can't believe I'm asking you this again, but I can't help but wonder, as a doctor, as a health care worker right now, how are you holding up?

DEL RIO: Well, it's been very tough and it's been very tough because we have a sense of we should not be here. We are here. We're having an increase in hospitalizations, the overburdened health care systems, the increase in death because people are unvaccinated. We squandered an opportunity in our country to vaccinate people. If we had vaccinated people, like we should have, we would not be where we are right now.

So, it's a sense of frustration but it's also a sense of duty. We in health care are there to help. We're going to take care of you no matter who you are, no matter what you did, no matter what decisions you make. At the end of the day our job is to take care of sick and do it well and to do it as best as we can. And I want to applaud the health care workers who are incredibly stressed but also incredibly committed to take care of people, sick people in this country.

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CABRERA: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. del Rio, and, yes, thank you to all of our health care workers who may be watching. We really appreciate all you do.

DEL RIO: Have a good day.

CABRERA: You too.

Moments from now, an update from the White House as we watch the scramble to escape Afghanistan play out in front world.

It's a true nightmare for my next guest. She got out just in time but her sister couldn't. Now, she's in hiding. Nasrin Nawa's story, next.

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