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Biden: Afghan Collapse Unfolded More Quickly than Anticipated; Afghans Who Helped America Now Fear for Their Lives; Rescue Efforts Underway to Help Earthquake Victims; Veterans of Afghan War Express Anger, Sadness over Collapse. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired August 17, 2021 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:14]
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, again. I'm John Vause.
Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How many more generations of America's daughters and sons? How many more lives, American lives, is it worth?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Making his case. After days of silence as the Taliban swept to power, the U.S. president standing by his decision to withdraw troops, while also blaming the U.S.-backed Afghan government.
Back to the future for Afghanistan. We'll take you through the streets of the now Taliban-controlled capital.
And from bad to worst. Haiti hit by another storm this hour, just days after a devastating, and deadly earthquake. We are live at the CNN Center.
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VAUSE: The first day of Taliban rule in Afghanistan sow chaos and fear, with thousands trying desperately to flee the country, terrified that their new leaders would return to their old ways and imposed a brutal interpretation of Islamic law.
Taliban fighters have flooded the streets of the capital, roaming the heavily fortified Green Zone, once home to diplomatic missions, but now abandoned.
For the most part, Kabul fell with a whimper, not a bang, like much of the provincial capital, Afghan security forces, and government officials, surrendered, without firing a shot. Kabul's airport is now no one of the last gateways to freedom, for thousands of Afghans. Days ago, U.S. troops move in and took control and there was gunfire at the airport Monday when U.S. troops shot and killed two armed men. Civilians and the U.S. military aircraft have been mobbed, a sign of just desperate the situation is now, some tried to hold on to this U.S. Air Force plane, while it was moving on the tarmac.
CNN correspondents, covering developments from Washington, Kabul, and reactions from around the world.
Our coverage begins, this hour, with CNN's Clarissa Ward on the streets of the Afghan capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As soon as we leave our compound, it is clear who is now in charge. Taliban fighters, flooding the capital. Smiling, and victorious, they took the city of 6 million people in a, matter of hours barely firing a shot.
This is a sight, honestly, I never thought that I would see -- scores of Taliban fighters, and just behind, as the U.S. embassy compound.
Some carry American weapons. They tell us they are here to maintain law and order.
Everything is under control. Everything will be fine, the commander says. Nobody should worry.
What is your message to America right now?
America already spent enough time in Afghanistan. They need to leave, he tells us. They already lost lots of lives and lots of money.
People come up to them to pose for photographs.
They are just chanting "death to America," but they seem friendly at the same time. It's utterly bizarre.
Almost everywhere we go, it seems the Taliban want to talk.
A lot of people are very frightened that you might engage in revenge attacks against security forces.
Since yesterday, we proved that nothing will happen and we give assurance to everyone that they will be safe, Mauli Murtaza (ph) tells us. We follow our leaders. Once we make a promise we stick to it.
Maintaining law and order is top of that list of promises. At the presidential palace, the Taliban are now guarding the gate. They say they are here to fill the vacuum left when the government fled.
But the welcoming spirit only extends so far, and my presence soon creates tension.
They've just told me to stand to the side, because I'm a woman.
The Taliban have yet to implement their draconian version of Islamic law, but many are already preparing for it.
You can see this beauty salon and many others that have actually painted over images on their storefronts of uncovered women.
Taliban commander Assad Massoud Khistani says Islamic rule will be implemented gradually.
How will you protect women? Many women are afraid they will not be allowed to go to school. They will not be allowed to work.
ASSAD MASSOUD KHISTANI, TALIBAN COMMANDER: The female, the woman can continue their life and we will not say anything for them. It could go to the school. They can continue their education with Islamic hijab.
[01:05:00]
WARD: Like I'm wearing?
KHISTANI: Not like you, but covering their faces.
WARD: Cover the face? So you mean niqab?
KHISTANI: Niqab.
WARD: Why do they have to cover their face?
KHISTANI: Because it is an Islam.
WARD: Is it in Islam though that you have to wear the niqab?
KHISTANI: Of course, it is in Islam.
WARD: Most ordinary Afghans we meet are in a state of shock, struggling to process the last 24 hours.
Faisal (ph) tells us his father was in the Afghan army and was killed this summer. Now he does not know what to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yesterday, I have lost everything. I don't feel secure in here.
WARD: You're afraid?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh?
WARD: You're afraid?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, I'm afraid. I lost my dad. I lost my mom, in Logar Province two months ago.
WARD: I'm sorry to hear that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just I am with my little sister. We are living at home. That's why I'm afraid from everything. It's a big problem. This is a big problem for us.
WARD: It is a feeling shared by so many.
Walking along, one has a sense that the real story may be the people who are not on the streets, those too afraid to leave their homes, waiting to see what tomorrow will bring.
Clarissa Ward, CNN, Kabul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: The U.S. president has admitted he was taken by surprise that the speed of the Taliban takeover, which is also leaving him deeply saddened. While taking full responsibility for ordering troops to withdraw, he went on to blame his predecessor, Donald Trump. His administration brokered the withdrawal deal with the Taliban. He also blamed Afghan leaders and Afghan troops, who fled without putting up a fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: The events we are seeing now, sadly, are proof, that no amount of military force, could ever deliver a stable, united, to secure Afghanistan. It is known in history as a graveyard of empires.
What is happening, now, could just as easily have happened 5 years ago, or 15 years in the future. You have to be honest. Our mission in Afghanistan has taken many missteps, and made many missteps, over the past two decades.
I am now the 4th American president to preside over war in Afghanistan, two Democrats and two Republicans. I will not pass this responsibility on to a fifth president. I will not mislead the American people, by claiming, that was just a little more time in Afghanistan, it will make all the difference. Nor, will I shrink from my share of responsibility, for where we are today, and, how we must move forward from here.
I am president of the United States of America and the buck stops with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Live now to CNN's Anna Coren, who recently returning from Afghanistan, and a story she's covered for us for years, here on CNN.
You know, the bucks off of me, his responsibility, all that kind of stuff is fine, but, really, at the end of the day, the withdrawal was botched, it was rushed, it was chaotic. It is left many so many people, basically, hung out to dry.
What do you hear from those people in that situation, right now, in Afghanistan?
ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, there are some experts who say that this was always going to happen. That Afghanistan was never going to be ready to take over, that the Taliban, you know, they were patient, they waited for this moment, that they had the will -- the will to fight, to fight for Afghan nationalism, and to fight the foreigners, and fight a government that was backed by foreigners, essentially. I know that is a little comfort, obviously, considering that the
Taliban has resumed power, they came to power in September of 1996. They resumed power in August of 2021. It's a 25-year wait.
Are they going to send Afghanistan back to the dark ages? That is the real fear. Certainly, for women, certainly, for the educated, including many of the people who I have worked with over the years, as recently as last month.
Many knew that this day would come because of the disdain, I guess, towards Ashraf Ghani and his government. The way he came to power in 2014, 2015, there was just so much hope. This was an academic from the World Bank who had Western ideas, and ideas for reform for this war- ravaged country. It never came to fruition.
Instead, there was corruption. There was dysfunction within the government, where leaders didn't even talk. They had to go through the United Nations to have a conversation. You know, warlords lining their pockets.
So, really, why would the Afghan military, where tens of billions of dollars have been spent, you know, arming these men, arming these armies, training these commandoes, giving them the equipment they need to fight a war, but not their war, you know?
[01:10:21]
And this is where it came to. So, that is why you saw the mass surrenders from the Afghan national forces. They were not prepared to fight for Ashraf Ghani's government. They knew that the Taliban had momentum, and as I've said, they were just more willing to die.
What does that mean for the people who have enjoyed the freedoms of the last 20 years? Will they say, there's no future in the country for them, that they need to leave, they need to build their lives elsewhere? And, that is why you are seeing this desperation in the airport, this desperation from the Afghan interpreters, who were contacting me constantly saying, how can I get out of the country?
From our fixers on the ground, the local producers who we have worked with, saying, I can't stay here, because I could very well become a target of the Taliban.
The Taliban, obviously, talking about forgiveness, talking about peace, and there will not be reprisal attacks but, John, no one is buying that.
VAUSE: One thing that is certainly different, the Taliban of 2021, compared to the Taliban in 1996, they're much better armed than ever before with U.S. weapons.
Anna, thank you. Anna Coren live for us in Hong Kong.
Aurvasi Patel is the acting director of the UNHCR's regional bureau of Asia and the Pacific. She joins us now with more on this.
Thank you for taking the time to speak with us. We appreciate it.
AURVASI PATEL, ACTING DIRECTOR, REGIONAL BUREAU FOR ASIA & PACIFIC, UNHCR: Thank you.
VAUSE: The Taliban spokesman told CNN that there will be no risk to lives, honor, and property from the Taliban government. And then adding this, quote: I am also surprised where they are terrified of fleeing the country, when the country needs them. This is our country, a country of all Afghans. This country needs a construction. Afghans should come together and rebuild this country.
Could you please answer the question which has been posed there by Suhail Shaheen, the spokesperson, about why so many are, absolutely, terrified by the ruling Taliban?
AURVASI PATEL, ACTING DIRECTOR, REGIONAL BUREAU FOR ASIA & PACIFIC, UNHCR: I think everybody is terrified. The Afghans are terrified by the history, and the fact that the Taliban have a past record on what they have done to the citizens, and, right now, they have given assurances. But, there have been reports about some actions that go against their current narrative.
So, I think it is important that the Taliban, actually, do what they say, and reassure the people, not only in word, but in practice, to help to the civilians to understand, and have a state of Afghanistan.
VAUSE: Yeah, the U.N. secretary general is among a number of world leaders who making it a very similar plead for the Taliban. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIO GUTERRES, SECRETARY-GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: All of us have seen the images, in real-time, chaos, unrest, uncertainty, and fear. Much lies in the balance -- the progress, the hope, the dreams of a generation of young Afghan women, girls, boys, and men. At this grave hour, I urge all parties, especially the Taliban, to exercise utmost restraint to protect lives and to ensure that humanitarian needs can be met.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Is there one shred of evidence for the past 25 years which would suggest that the Taliban is likely to hear that call, or something similar and respond in a positive way?
PATEL: What is something very new is that the Taliban have, actually, approach the U.N., and the UNHCR, U.N. refugee compound, where we're in Kabul, and have given a statement, some stamp statement for protection, and this is very new, and if this is actually materializes, then we can certainly stay and deliver and provide humanitarian assistance, which is critical for Afghans today.
VAUSE: Can you share more details about with that statement says, what it requests? What it actually he says from the Taliban? PATEL: Sorry, yes, thank you. It just gives us reassurances that we
can continue the activities. We can continue providing humanitarian assistance to the population in need.
VAUSE: Which they've never done before, right?
PATEL: We have not experienced this before, no. So, this is the first time.
VAUSE: The U.S. president, we've heard a lot from Joe Biden. He's standing by this decision to withdraw troops, while also admitting the speed of the takeover came as a surprise. Here's a little more from Joe Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: We plan for every contingency, but I always promise the American people that I would be straight with you. The truth is, this did unfold, more quickly, than we had anticipated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[01:15:02]
VAUSE: In terms of evacuating Afghans, whose lives will be at risk once the Taliban were in control, were you, and other aid agencies, and groups, relying on reports from U.S. intelligence of the assessment that Kabul could fall first? First, it was 18 months, and more recently, 90 days. Regardless of this, how hard it has been actually to get people out and to safety amid all of this turmoil?
PATEL: Well, the U.N. Refugee Agency, our mandate is to provide humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan, and of course, in our neighboring countries, we have received asylum seekers, and provide -- support the government into providing humanitarian assistance. And, what we call, refugee status determination.
So, in that context, of course, we've been relying on states, and updates from them. But we very much have been advocating for all access to territory, and an opportunity, and a space, and a peaceful environment to continue our activities, and provide humanitarian assistance within Afghanistan.
VAUSE: And just very quickly, given that the assessment is so obviously wrong, and that the collapse has been much sooner than the U.S. are saying, how much does that make the situation in trying to get these people out?
PATEL: Well, we as the United Nations Refugee Agency, we have been advocating for access for territory, and keeping the borders open. Letting people leave, should they feel that they need to. Those who are remaining, our mandate is, very much, to provide humanitarian assistance, to ensure that there are basic services, that can be reached, and to make sure that the services are, running and operational, so that the average Afghan can have the daily life, and access to education livelihoods, until facilities. So, those with the critical things, right now.
VAUSE: I wish you all the best of luck, keep up the good work.
Aurvasi Patel, thank you so much. We appreciate your time.
PATEL: Thank you very much for having me.
VAUSE: A pleasure.
When we come back, the races on to get Western diplomats out of Afghanistan. And amid the chaos, European countries are making a promise to the Afghans who spent years helping them.
Later this hour, how heavy rains from Tropical Depression Grace can cause flash flooding, and mudslides, in earthquake-ravaged Haiti.
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VAUSE: Welcome back.
The Biden administration is expected to advise most Americans to get a booster shot for COVID. According to a source familiar with discussions, a booster dose will be recommended eight months after full vaccination. Approval is still needed from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.
But the rollout is expected in mid to late next month. Health care workers, care home patients, and the elderly at the front of the line.
It's a full-on desperate rush for the exits in Kabul after the Afghan capital fell to the Taliban. The first plane carrying Italian diplomats and their Afghan assistants arrived in Rome on Monday. The Italian prime minister has promised to protect all Afghan citizens who helped with Italy's mission.
[01:20:03]
Other European countries also working to evacuate their diplomats, and are echoing Italy's pledge to protect the Afghans who worked alongside NATO forces.
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DOMINIC RAAB, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: What matters, right now, is focusing on getting British their shuttles out, getting out those who so loyally serve the U.K., and ensuring that the gains that we've made over 20 years are not lost.
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): I inform the parliamentary groups over the weekend, and earlier, that we must now make every effort to bring our compatriots to safety. That is to fly out the staff of the German embassy, and a staff of a German organizations working in Afghanistan.
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: The absolute urgency is to bring to safety our compatriots who must all leave the country, as well as the Afghans, who have worked for France.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: We have more now from Asia, on the reaction to the neighboring countries, we have CNN's Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong, Sophia Saifi is in Islamabad.
And, Sophia, we start with you.
Pakistan, clearly, you know, has played a key role in diplomacy, up until this point. But, is this the outcome which they wanted at the end of the day? They wanted foreign forces, foreign troops, out of Afghanistan, and the Taliban in control?
SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN PRODUCER: Well, John, they have been saying, I mean, they've been very much part of the peace process, the peace talks that have been ongoing. And they have always been signaling, over the past year at least, that they were not happy with the way things were turning out with this expectation that they had as much influence on the Afghan, Taliban, as they may have had, a decade ago, or even five years ago.
So, there has been concerns that this is happening too quickly, that this is -- you know, the rug is being pulled out from beneath them, that there are concerns about the security on the other side of the border, there have been -- you know, Pakistan has spent the past year fencing its border with Afghanistan. They have, consistently, said that they are concerned about the security, about the strongholds of the TTP, which is the Pakistani Taliban on the other side of the Pakistan-Afghan border.
There was an attack on a Chinese workers there was an attack on Chinese workers, a couple of weeks ago in early July. And Pakistan went out and said that Afghanistan's intelligence agencies were behind it. Now, the issue is, is what we've been told, is that Pakistanis, of course, allying itself very closely with China now.
The geodynamics have changed. They want to have this one built, one road project. For that, they want stability in Afghanistan, so that they can have people coming in, from Central Asia, and using Pakistan's port. But for that, they need stability in Afghanistan -- John.
VAUSE: Sophia, thank you from -- stay with us please. We go to Kristie now in Hong Kong.
China, Kristie, clearly, want to have some kind of influence over this new Taliban government. But they do not seem to be very comfortable bedfellows.
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, not at all. It has been described as a very reluctant embrace, in fact.
Look, China must tread quite carefully, as it navigates this new reality, the return of the Taliban. On Monday, we know that the Chinese foreign minister, Wang Yi, met with the U.S. secretary of state, and they had a virtual discussion over the phone. Wang Yi took the opportunity to slam America's hasty exit from Afghanistan, but also said that China is willing to work with the United States, in order to provide a soft landing for Afghanistan, to avoid a humanitarian catastrophe, or a return to civil war, or return to becoming a safe haven for terrorism.
We know that the relationship within the Taliban, and China, is an interesting, one to say the least. I think on your screen, you are looking at images that were taken, just a month ago in Tianjin, that was when Wang Yi, the Chinese foreign minister welcomed a high-level delegation of the Taliban to the Chinese port city of Tianjin.
It was at that time, before the Taliban takeover, when Wang Yi called the Taliban, an important, military, and political force in Afghanistan. Now, what China is angling here, is stability.
China is very concerned about unstable border situations, as it shares a border with Afghanistan, which is a small border, but it touches the western reason of Xinjiang. China is also concerned about protecting its extensive investments across Central Asia, including in Pakistan, through its one, built one road infrastructure initiative.
And also, it signaled that it's willing to extend that opportunity, into Afghanistan as well, but China's, particularly, concerned about terror threats. Terror threats that, it wants, to minimize. I want you to take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY STOREY, POLITICAL RISK ANALYST: I think China, really, is quite worried that the instability and the chaos on the ground in Afghanistan factored with the Taliban's previous, relationship, and, indeed, ongoing relationship with the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement. They worry it if Afghanistan could become something of a training ground for this group.
[01:25:04]
And I think that Beijing would be worried that what's happening on the ground in Afghanistan provide an opportunity for ETIM to regroup and further their presence in Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STOUT: And, much to the chagrin of China, this was brought up in that conversation between the chief diplomats of China, and the United States, on Monday, China slammed that decision, made most recently by the United States, for taking ETIM off the U.S. terror list -- John.
VAUSE: Kristie, thank you. Kristie Lu Stout there for us live in Hong Kong, with the angle from China, and Sophia Saifi there in Islamabad, with the view from Pakistan. We appreciate you both. Thank you.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
VAUSE: Protests on the Greek island of Lesbos on Monday. Afghan asylum seekers and activists spoke out against the Taliban takeover. At least 2,500 Afghans are living in Lesbos. That's nearly half of the island's migrant population. They now fear for the lives of family, and friends back home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELENA, AFGHAN ASYLUM SEEKER: It's a disaster. I don't know. As an Afghan, I expect from the world, please support Afghanistan. Don't leave Afghan people alone. All of the Afghan people are crying. All of us are sad. All of us need support, my country now is wounded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: In California, an estimated 60,000 Afghans now called the San Francisco Bay area home. Many want the U.S. to do more, to ensure the safety of Afghan civilians.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAWID AMERIAN, BUSINESS OWNER: There is a tragedy that is happening in Afghanistan. And, I wish that the world community, especially President Biden, his administration, can make a better decision regarding the situation, and lead -- do not lead to the country being destroyed by this extremist group.
AISHA WAHAB, HAYWARD CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: I think it's heartbreaking in a lot of different ways. I think it's also disappointing to see the withdrawal -- and the execution of the withdrawal and the fear of the unknown. What is going to happen to women and children, religious, and ethnic minorities, when the hashtags and the trending die down?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Well, Afghans who helped America now fear they will be left behind to be slaughtered. We'll look at what's being done if anything to get them out of the country before the Taliban can exact revenge.
Stay with us. More on that in a moment.
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[01:30:09]
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back everyone. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
Just one day after the Taliban takeover of Kabul and the fall of the Afghan government, U.S. President Joe Biden admitted the collapse happened more quickly than the administration had anticipated.
But in a speech to the nation, he insisted that ending America's longest war was the right decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How many more generations of America's daughters and sons would you have me send to fight Afghanistan's civil war when Afghan troops will not? How many more lives, American lives, is it worth? How many endless rows of headstones at Arlington National Cemetery?
I'm clear in my answer. I will not repeat the mistakes we have made in the past.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Those comments were made on the same day Taliban fighters flooded the streets of Kabul sparking fear and uncertainty among the Afghan people.
And at the Kabul Airport, scenes of utter desperation. Crowds looking to flee the country attempting to grab onto a moving U.S. warplane as it was taking off.
Joining us now is Stanford University historian Robert Crews. He is with us from Palo Alto in California. Thanks for being with us, Robert.
First up, we just heard Joe Biden there. I now want you to listen to the Pentagon spokesman, John Kirby also speaking on Monday with a version of Mike Tyson saying everyone has a plan until they're punched in the mouth. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: Plans are not always perfectly predictive and as is a well military maxim that plans don't often survive first contact. And you have to adjust in real time.
And I think when you look at the images out of Kabul, that would have been difficult for anybody to predict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: When he says it would've been difficult for anyone to predict that would be except for the endless number of people predicted exactly would happened. The Biden administration seemed to have blinders on from the very beginning to end through all of this it seems.
ROBERT CREWS, HISTORIAN, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: The beginning I think The fundamental flaw was beyond the invasion of 2001 was to follow Trump's plan to respect the peace deal with the Taliban, which essentially created a kind of roadmap toward a surrender; toward diminishing of the Afghan state that Washington simply backed that legitimized the Taliban and really gave them a kind of road map to launch the offensive that they have pulled off so brilliantly in the last two weeks.
VAUSE: The U.S. president also spoke about the argument which seem to reinforce his belief that the only option he had was a fast, unconditional and total withdrawal.
Here's a little more from Joe Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: If Afghanistan is unable to mount any real resistance to the Taliban now, there is no chance that one year, one more year, five more years or 20 more years of the U.S. military boots in the ground would have made any difference.
It is wrong to order American troops to step up and Afghanistan's own armed forces would not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: You know, it all kind of sounds on paper to be fairly reasonable. But is also seems to negate U.S. responsibility to their role and why the Afghan soldiers had no faith and their government, why the people -- the Afghan people -- or the Afghan government rather had no credibility, especially outside the big cities.
And you know, there is this pottery barn rule when you invade a country, you break it you own it.
CREWS: To be sure. And I think, you know, we could tell a longer story of all the failures of American policy in all the ways in which we hamstrung the Afghan state supporters. We did that by killing civilians. We did that by promoting corruption, by not monitoring aid transfers.
We did it really in 2001 by helping to build a state that was highly centralized and indeed autocratic which really has created a dynamic that has haunted the country for some 20 years because those who likely sort of engaged are largely excluded.
And the president holds really all the cards. So that -- and we can extend that amount (INAUDIBLE) the state of the Afghan military which disappeared so dramatically last week.
That was an American trained, American designed military. The U.S. chose quantity over quality. So the whole list of points that -- steps that we could point to I think fundamentally what I'd like to highlight here for your audiences that you're referring to the country as a graveyard of empires. In a way creating false words about time, saying well, it'll be the same next year, or 5 years or 20 years.
It's suggesting an image of the country that it's just a place that never changes. It's stuck in time. And I think that's something that very -- you know, Afghans find very condescending and demeaning.
[01:34:53]
CREWS: And Biden went on to actually, you know, criticize the efforts of Afghan troops by essentially claiming they weren't heroic enough. They didn't fight enough. Then how can we fight for them if they don't want to fight for themselves?
At the end (ph) these are all misleading efforts to deflect from American responsibility and essentially to, you know, wash our hands of this 20-year conflict where, of course, American and other veterans have paid a high price, but also Afghan society has paid an enormous price.
66,000 Afghan soldiers died fighting against the Taliban, not to mention tens of thousands of civilians.
VAUSE: Afghanistan has a population of what -- around 36 million people. The median age is 18 years old. Many only know what life is like under U.S. secretary which has meant marginalized groups have more rights and opportunities than ever before. It's flourished in a way.
So why wasn't there, you know, not a rising up amongst the population against 75,000 Taliban fighters?
CREWS: That's very important and telling (ph) question. I think I would not give up on that yet. I think the question going forward is yes, we know the Taliban want to reestablish the Islamic Emirate but can they manage that? In five (ph) years it's radically different.
Can they do it given the demographic pressure that you appropriately highlighted in a society that is much more pluralistic and much more heterogenous where women had been outside the home, in New York City, in hospital, in the parliament, in the courtroom now for almost a decade.
So I think it would be very hard to contain that. I think there's a potential for Afghan society to push back against the Taliban.
Once this initial shock is over and once the Taliban figure out how they're -- how they will attempt to implement what they had late in the 1990s which was a state that really emphasized the expression of public, power and policing through their ministry for the promotion of virtue and prevention of vice -- the kind of morale police that would circulated in Kabul and other major cities.
VAUSE: Robert, thank you. Robert Crews there.
CREWS: Thank you.
VAUSE: Joining us from California. Appreciate it sir, Thank you.
During two decades of war, tens of thousands of Afghans worked for and helped American troops and diplomats. They are now living in absolute fear the Taliban will hunt them down and kill them. Many of them applied (ph) for special U.S. immigrant visas hoping that they can escape to America with their lives.
We have more now from CNN's Kylie Atwood.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Afghans chasing down an American plane, revealing the desperation to escape. Tens of thousands of Afghans who helped U.S. diplomats and U.S. troops in Afghanistan have applied for special immigrant visas or SIVs and they are currently trapped in the country, terrified that they and their families will be targeted by the Taliban if they don't get out.
ISMAIL, SIV APPLICANT: I'm under the threat and the threat is following me. I'm like a prisoner. I'm just staying at home.
ATWOOD: Today, we spoke with one SIV applicant, Ismail, whose full name we are concealing to keep him safe. He worked with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers at Bagram Airbase.
Ismail was denied a visa in the past and has tried to reapply. He says with the Taliban now in control of the country he doesn't believe their assurances that people like him will be safe.
ISMAIL: Taliban are the people that they never keep their promise. They are promise breakers.
ATWOOD: While the U.S. has evacuated 2,000 Afghans and their families in recent weeks to the U.S., it's only a small fraction of the 60,000 who would qualify for SIVs or refugee status. And that number does not include their families.
Last week, the top U.S. diplomat in the country urged the department in a cable back to Washington to include a wider swath of Afghans in its evacuation planning.
And now, as pandemonium overwhelms Afghanistan, the Biden administration is coming under fire for not getting these Afghans out of the country more quickly.
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We are doubling down on efforts to get them out if they want to leave.
ATWOOD: Biden administration officials have threatened severe consequences if the Taliban interfere with Afghans heading to the airport. But right now, they won't assist Afghans who are trying to get there safely.
JONATHAN FINER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The United States is not in a position now and will not be in a position going forward to provide security throughout the city of Kabul and throughout the nation of Afghanistan.
We are focused on the airport --
ATWOOD: The U.S. has the capacity to move 5,000 people a day out of the country. But with the chaos at the airport, it is not clear when the U.S. will be able to start moving that many people out of the crumbling country.
(on camera): We've asked the State Department what their goal is in terms of how many of these Afghan interpreters they want to get out of the country before the U.S. No longer has a presence at the airport in Kabul. They underscored they want to maintain a presence at that airport for as long as they can. But they wouldn't give us an exact figure for the number of Afghans interpreters they want to get out because the situation is so fluid.
[01:39:48]
ATWOOD: Now, the Pentagon has said that they are preparing to house up to 22,000 of these interpreters. But time is really of the essence and the question is how quickly the United States can get those Afghans out of the country.
Kylie Atwood, CNN -- the State Department.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Still to come here on CNN. With Haiti's government crippled by death and struggling with the pandemic, the onus to help the nation recover from the weekend quake is now falling mostly to private aid groups.
More on that in a moment.
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VAUSE: The death toll from Haiti's earthquake continue to climb. Officials now report more than 1,400 people have died. Thousands more have been hurt. Tens of thousands of homes are damaged or destroyed.
All this comes as heavy rain from tropical depression Grace threatens to (INAUDIBLE) flash flooding and mud slides in the area where the quake struck on Saturday.
And as we wait to see the impact from that storm, CNN's Matt Rivers was in Les Cayes earlier touring some of the damage near the epicenter of the earthquake.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Getting to the hardest hit area of this earthquake means a helicopter route, 100 miles away from Port-au-Prince. Land and the reality of Haiti's latest trauma greets us on the tarmac.
A waiting truck filled with people injured over the weekend still waiting to be evacuated. First to come out? A young child held by a relative carried into a waiting plane. Next up an elderly woman in a wheelchair unable to walk, lifted out of her chair, she's carried up step by cautious step on her way to the help that still eludes so many.
"Things are out of control at the hospital," he says. "Not enough doctors, not enough medicine, serious injuries. We need urgent help before things get worse."
At least 1,400 have been killed and thousands more injured in the worst earthquake to strike here since 2010. Not far from the airport this is what remains of a multi-story hotel. Officials say there could still be bodies in this rubble. Some here digging trying to help, others digging for scrap metal and air conditioners.
(on camera): What you don't see here are Haitian authorities. There are no police presence, there's no firefighters, there are no search and rescue Crews here. They're just people from the community and this lone excavator that is not currently in operation. It's very indicative of what we are seeing as we drive through this area near the epicenter.
(voice over): Aid simply is not arriving quickly. Part of the reason? Blocked roads like this one, impassable for some convoys.
JERRY CHANDLER, DIRECTOR, HAITI CIVIL PROTECTION AGENCY: The response effort is taking time to actually get there. I mean in our opinion we should have been there already. We are getting started, but we are not satisfied.
RIVERS: Back at the airport, first responders desperately look for a way to get this young girl out. She is stoic, but her leg is gravely injured and she's clearly in pain.
This plane is it's full. Another helicopter takes off without her, and so after walking around the tarmac she is placed in another truck. A painful wait for help goes on.
[01:44:57]
RIVERS: (on camera): And rainfall continues to come down from tropical depression Grace. Of course, the more rain that falls, the greater the risks are both of flash flooding and things like mudslides, landslides.
Those are the kind of things that will make the search and rescue efforts that much harder. The more it rains, the more time that goes on, the slimmer the chances are of finding more people alive in the rubble.
Matt Rivers, CNN -- Port-au-Prince, Haiti.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Let's get the very latest now on that storm which is passing across Haiti and the region. Meteorologist Pedram Javaheri joins us.
So I guess the question is where is it? Do we know how much rain has dropped over that earthquake zone at this point?
PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You know, I checked into the observations and unfortunately there are none to be had out of Haiti. But you can look at satellite-derived data and estimate between 200 to 300 millimeters.
That has already come down in the last couple of hours and another 150 to 200 could come down over the next 12 or so hours. So this is certainly the height of the storm as far as the closest move in proximity to land here. So tremendous amount of rainfall depicted here by the enhanced radar and satellite imagery across the area.
It kind of shows you the heaviest thunderstorms across that area of western Haiti. 55 kilometer per hour winds, gusts pushing close to 75 kilometers per hour. But really important to note, when you look at Haiti, anytime you talk about Haiti, among the most fascinating places in the world as it relates to its geography and, of course, the massive amount of deforestation that has taken place.
Only 1 percent of the entire nation's primary forests are still in place. 99 percent has been deforested. You look at some 50 of the highest peaks across this particular island, 43 of them have lost -- entirely lost their vegetation.
So it kind of speaks to how significant a flooding threat could come out of this, because when you have moisture and you have it absorbed into foliage like this -- that absorbs a lot of the moisture and of course, that reduces the flooding concern. But anytime you remove, you reduce -- increase the risk there for seeing landslides and of course, flash flooding to take place and mudslides as well.
So that is the main concern moving forward. But the system is going to quickly move out of here. Sunshine will eventually return as early as Tuesday in the afternoon and into Tuesday evening.
The sky should clear but beyond this, this is going to be a significant story for our friends across Mexico. You could see a landfall there near Cancun and another landfall in Mexico later in the week as a category one hurricane potentially, John.
VAUSE: Pedram, thank you. Pedram Javaheri there with the very latest. Thank you.
Well, Haiti's prime minister has promised to ramp up aid and recovery efforts for the victims of the quake, and that includes increasing the number of government workers who are deployed throughout the region.
For now relief organizations though are delivering food and medicine to those most in need. And a nonprofit World Central Kitchen is making hot meals for emergency responders and others impacted by Saturday's quake.
To Port-au-Prince now and Sam Bloch, the director of emergency response for World Central Kitchen, a not-for-profit aid group which has a focus on rapid response to regions hit hard by disasters both national and man-made.
And they have a focus on feeding the hungry, just like they did back in 2010. World Central Kitchen is now back on the ground in Haiti.
Sam, thank you for being with us. It's raining there right now. The immediate concern is from tropical depression Grace. How much rain's it could dump on the area which had been most devastated by that weekend earthquake.
I want you to listen to Haiti's director of civil protection and what they're expecting. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHANDLER: Yes I am worried about this (ph). As a disaster manager, like I said, it first puts an additional pressure on handling a disaster in a very complex situation.
Also as a citizen, it also worries me, because I know that my fellow citizens are sleeping and they might be impacted because of the rain and, you know, the possible flash floods that may occur.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: You've been there. You know what the conditions are like there right now. What sort of night are the people around Les Cayes -- are having right now?
SAM BLOCH, DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY RESPONSE, WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN: A lot buildings have collapsed. Unfortunately there are quite a few people that are having to make that hard decision of sleeping in the rain or sleeping in a building that might be affected by an aftershock.
VAUSE: It seems that right now this storm, this tropical depression is just heaping misery onto devastation for the people of Haiti.
So clearly this overnight rain and the possible landslides and the strong winds are not helping in anyway.
But at the moment how would you say the difficulty level is in just getting in and out of the quake zone and what does that mean in terms of just getting what is needed to those who are in need?
BLOCH: I mean every disaster, I look on a set of challenges. The situation with access to, you know, the roads, there's been bridges that have collapsed. There's been landslides that have completely isolated communities like the whole town of Jaramie (ph).
We were fortunate, you know, we actually started working here in 2010 after the Haiti earthquake, and we founded a culinary school that we are able to activate immediately after, you know, literally the day after the earthquake hit.
That's been beneficial. Then the storm came in. you know, we had a helicopter that was bringing food out to the impacted, isolated communities. And now obviously with this tropical depression, that has grounded all air support.
[01:50:04]
VAUSE: You know, Haiti's prime minister has promised a tenfold increase in aid if it's by his (ph) government.
Given the state of the country right now, that seems unlikely. We wish them all the best of course. But added to this you have all the churches, which have been badly damage or destroyed. They normally would be offering a lot of help as well.
So that leaves -- (INAUDIBLE) for any kind of assistance now of a group like yours. What are you looking at in the coming days and weeks in terms of need and demand?
BLOCH: You know, it's always hard to say (INAUDIBLE) -- there are no shortage of people that, you know, will really benefit from the work that we do. So we just get it started and then allow the need to reveal itself.
You know, the physical structure of the churches may have collapse. You know the community structures still there whether that's a local NGO or an international NGO or even a government (INAUDIBLE).
VAUSE: The last time Haiti went through something like this that was not a pandemic was a big deadly earthquake back in 2010.
So how much harder is it now, doing what you do and what you have to do in the midst of the pandemic?
BLOCH: There is -- I mean we've been working with the pandemic since, you know, the first major outbreak outside of China was the big cruise ship in Japan. So we have our systems down really well in order to do our job safely.
Of course, it's complicates things but it's been you know, well over a year of doing this work within the pandemic. Having served over 40 million meals throughout the pandemic.
We've got our system down pretty well. You know, it doesn't slow us down that much.
VAUSE: Sam, we wish you and everyone who's there with the World Central Kitchen all the very, very best. You're doing a great job. Keep it going. You've got a big job in front of you. Thank you.
BLOCH: Excellent. Thank you, John.
VAUSE: For more on how to help the people of Haiti, please go to CNN.com/impact.
When we come back here on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am so angry. I don't understand the why now of it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Frustration turns to anger turns to heartbreak among U.S. veterans as America's longest war comes to a chaotic close.
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VAUSE: Two decades, trillions of dollars, thousands of lives lost. The U.S. is leaving Afghanistan and the Taliban are taking over once again. For many U.S. veterans -- veterans of America's longest war, they're now asking this question. What was the point?
CNN's Brian Todd has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As they watched scenes of chaos from the Kabul Airport and Taliban fighters walking through what was once a U.S. base manning American heavy armor, as they watch President Biden acknowledge their hardship.
BIDEN: The scenes you're seeing in Afghanistan. They are gut-wrenching particularly for our veterans.
TODD: U.S. military veterans of America's longest war are speaking out about the collapse in Afghanistan. Many, with a common refrain.
TOM AMENTA, AFGHANISTAN WAR VETERAN: I'm so angry. I don't understand the why now of it, and that is the thing that I think makes me even angrier is why -- there has been no real reason other than it is time.
[01:54:54]
JACK MURPHY, FORMER U.S. ARMY RANGER AND GREEN BERET IN AFGHANISTAN: My sense from the veterans who fought so hard over there in Afghanistan is that they're just heartbroken by this.
Right now they're out of the military and they're having to answer the question of Afghanistan individually for themselves, asked themselves that question.
What did it all mean? And I don't think we are anywhere even close to being able to answer that question yet.
TODD: CNN has spoken to several American veterans of the Afghanistan war as the country has devolved into anarchy in recent days.
Many question the timing, the manner of the U.S. withdrawal as the Afghan forces they helped train have melted away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is really hard. It is really hard to watch this.
TODD (on camera): What should have been done differently here, would you say?
TRAVIS HORR, FORMER U.S. MARINE LANCE CORPORAL: I think that there was of trouble with Afghanistan as far as America never fully committing to one part or the other, never fully committed to the nation building of building up the Afghan National Army. We never fully committed to routing the Taliban completely.
TODD (voice over): With more than 2,400 of their fellow American service members dead, more than 20,000 wounded in Afghanistan, some veterans are expressing not only heartbreak and anger, they're also putting this in the context of another long, horrific American war in Vietnam.
Chris Kolenda says six of his soldiers were killed in Afghanistan.
CHRIS KOLENDA, COMMANDED SOLDIERS IN AFGHANISTAN: There's a policy that we had in Afghanistan in many ways was in vain or many of the policies are in vain. But they didn't die in vain. They died serving, fighting next to their comrades.
TODD: Kevin Brewington who lost both legs and part of an arm in Afghanistan says the withdrawal was botched, but he does not think America is making a mistake with this withdrawal.
KEVIN BREWINGTON, ARMY: I really think we should have left earlier. Personally I think we've been there too long.
TODD: But Travis Horr who served in Helmand Province and worked with other veterans has a concern about some of his comrades who are watching some of what they fought for disintegrate.
HORR: Yes, there's definitely concern with potential suicide ideation with some things like a news like this. It's always a big concern when we're talking about this and the veterans are thinking what it was at all for? That could lead to some pretty dark thoughts.
TODD (on camera): While many veterans voice anger, frustration and heartbreak and others try to come to grips with just how they feel about the collapse in Afghanistan, at least one veteran puts it in some of the starkest and simplest terms.
Retired army infantryman Isaiah James who served in Afghanistan told the "L.A. Times" quote, "At that point my mission was getting back to America alive. That was it," he said.
Brian Todd, CNN -- Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause.
Stay with us please. CNN NEWSROOM continues after a very short break with Robyn Curnow. Thanks for watching.
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