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President Biden Accepts Responsibility While Pointing Fingers; Afghans Fear for Their Life Under Taliban Regime; Analyst Doubt Taliban Can Keep Their Word; Europe Anticipate Migrant Crisis; U.S. Criticized by World Leaders. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired August 17, 2021 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church. And this is CNN Newsroom.
We continue to monitor the Taliban takeover in Afghanistan. This hour, we look at what it's like on the ground in Kabul, plus, we will speak with an Afghan lawmaker and bring you the latest reaction to U.S. President Joe Biden's decision to pull American troops.
It's 11.30 in the morning in Kabul on the city's second full day of Taliban rule in two decades. The militants are trying to project a new image after conquering the capital even being interviewed by a female news anchor showing her face.
Meanwhile, Afghans and foreigners are still trying to leave the country. France is among the latest countries to evacuate Kabul. The French embassy says special forces were flown in to get their citizens out. The Kabul airport has been one of the only gateways to freedom for Afghans trying to leave. Some have even tried grabbing on to moving planes, but we have learned of a major border crossing has also been reopened between Pakistan and Kandahar.
Meanwhile, many Afghans feel abandoned by the United States, and here is what one Kabul resident had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (through translator): The U.S. started a meaningless war. These are Afghan people in our country that ultimately suffered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH (on camera): Well as the chaos in Kabul unfolds, uncertainty is gripping Afghanistan. The rapid collapse of the capital and the Afghan government have many now fearing what comes next.
CNN's Clarissa Ward was on the streets of Kabul as it marks the first full day under Taliban control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As soon as we
leave our compound, it's clear who is now in charge. Taliban fighters have flooded the capital. Smiling and victorious, they took the city of six million people in a matter of hours, barely firing a shot.
This is a sight I honestly thought I would never see. Scores of Taliban fighters and just behind us, the U.S. embassy compound.
Some carry American weapons. They tell us they are here to maintain law and order.
Everything is under control. Everything will be fine, the commander says. Nobody should worry.
What is your message to America right now?
"America already spent enough time in Afghanistan. They need to leave," he tells us. They already lost lots of lives and lots of money."
People come up to them to pose for photographs.
CROWD: Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!
WARD: They are just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time. It's utterly bizarre.
Almost everywhere we go, it seems the Taliban want to talk.
A lot of people are very frightened that you might engage in revenge attacks against security forces.
"Since yesterday we proved that nothing will happen and we give assurance to everyone that they will be safe," Mauli Murtaz (Ph) tells us. "And we follow our leaders. Once we make a promise, we stick to it."
Maintaining law and order is top of that list of promises. At the presidential palace, the Taliban are now guarding the gate. They say they are here to fill the vacuum left when the government fled. But the welcoming spirit only extends so far, and my presence soon creates tension.
UNKNOWN: It's because of you.
WARD: They've just told me to stand to the side, because I'm a woman. The Taliban have yet to implement their draconian version of Islamic law, but many are already preparing for it.
You can see this beauty salon and many others that have actually painted over images on their storefronts of uncovered women. Taliban commander Assad Massoud Khistani said Islamic rule will be implemented gradually.
How will you protect women? Because many women are afraid they will not be allowed to go to school, they will not be allowed to work? ASSAD MASSOUD KHISTANI, TALIBAN COMMANDER: The female, the woman can
continue their life and we will not say anything for them. They can go to the school. They can continue their education but with Islamic hijab.
WARD: So, like I'm wearing?
KHISTANI: Not like you, but covering their faces.
WARD: Cover the face? So, you mean niqab?
KHISTANI: Niqab?
WARD: Why do they have to cover their face?
KHISTANI: Because it is in our Islam?
WARD: Is it in Islam though that you have to wear the niqab?
[03:05:01]
KHISTANI: Of course, of course, of course it is in Islam.
WARD: Most ordinary Afghans we meet are in a state of shock, struggling to process the last 24 hours.
Fazila (Ph) tells us his father was in the Afghan army and was killed this summer. Now he doesn't know what to do.
UNKNOWN: Yesterday I have lost everything. I don't feel secure in here?
WARD: You are afraid?
UNKNOWN: Yes, I'm afraid. I lost my dad. I lost my mom, in Logar province two months ago.
WARD: I'm sorry to hear that.
UNKNOWN: Just I am with my little sister. We are living at home. That's why I'm afraid from everything. It's a big problem. This is a big problem for us.
WARD: It's a feeling shared by so many. Walking along one has a sense that the real story may be the people who are not on the streets, those too afraid to leave their homes, waiting to see what tomorrow will bring.
Clarissa Ward, CNN, Kabul.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH (on camera): Well, the U.S. president has admitted the fall of Kabul happened more quickly than anticipated. And that he is deeply saddened by the situation there. Joe Biden accepted responsibility, but went on to blame a number of people who also contributed to the chaos including his predecessor Donald Trump who brokered the deal to withdraw, as well as fleeing Afghan leaders and troops. But Mr. Biden said he did not regret the decision to pull out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Our mission in Afghanistan is taking as many missteps, we made many missteps over the past two decades. I'm now the fourth American president to preside over a war in Afghanistan, two Democrats and two Republicans. I will not pass this responsibly on -- responsibility on to a fifth president. I will not mislead the American people by claiming, that just a bit more time in Afghanistan will make all the difference. Nor will I shrink from my share of responsibility for where we are today and how we must move forward from here.
I am President of the United States of America. And the buck stops with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH (on camera): Well, CNN's Anna Coren has reported extensively from Afghanistan including on a recent trip there. And she joins me now live from Hong Kong with the latest on the Taliban takeover. Thank you. Good to see you, Anna.
So, what more are you learning about the chaotic evacuation effort underway at the airport in Kabul?
ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rosemary, we are getting reports from the British in fact, that the situation on the ground at the airport is settling down. It would seem that the majority of the troops there, of U.S. troops but there are also British troops there manning the perimeter in charge of air traffic control and getting those evacuations, you know, moving, I guess.
There are thousands of people that, you know, Americans needs to fly out of Afghanistan, not just their staff, but also the Afghan interpreters, the Afghan workers who worked with the military and the U.S. organizations, foreign organizations that they have promised to relocate out of the country.
So, there is an enormous task ahead. We do know, obviously as the U.S. are patrolling part of the airport the Taliban is also providing security as well to try and reduce the crowds. And I guess those chaotic scenes that we saw yesterday unfolding, that was the utter desperation of these Afghans.
Some of them Afghan interpreters who I was with last month, you know, reporting on their stories, hearing their cases. They thought that by going to the airport they would get on a plane. One of them said to me, Rosemary, that yesterday was their blackest day because they had got this realization that once the Americans leave, that their hope of leaving the country is over.
CHURCH: And Anna, what about the situation on the streets of Kabul and right across Afghanistan? COREN: Well, certainly, on the streets of Afghanistan in Kabul the
capital, it does appear to be quite calm, the Taliban providing checkpoints. They have issued, I guess an edict, if you like, to their members saying they are not allowed to enter homes, they are not allowed to seize property, that they have maintain law and order.
And we also got word a short time ago that a general amnesty has been offered to all government officials, that they want people to return to work.
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And then we saw these extraordinary images just moments ago on Tolo TV which is one of the local tv stations, of a female news anchor only wearing a hijab interviewing a Taliban member.
She was asking him about what the future of his government looks like. What is going to be the future for women, what is going to be the future for girls going to school and university? And he responded that we want women to be part of the workforce, they just have to wear the hijab and follow Sharia law that we want girls to be educated and go to school.
Whether people are going to take the Taliban at face value, you know, many of the people that I spoke to, Rosemary, they don't take the Taliban at their word. But we will just have to wait and see.
CHURCH: Most definitely. Anna Coren, bringing us the very latest from her vantage point there in Hong Kong. Many thanks.
Well, many Afghans are worried about what life will be like under Taliban rule. A Taliban spokesman told CNN there would be no danger to property, honor, and life of Afghan citizens, and promises a secure environment for diplomats and aid workers. Here is what he said about the future of women in the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUHAIL SHAHEEN, TALIBAN SPOKESMAN: There are many journalists right now based in Kabul, there were foreign journalists, they carry out work their work and filing reports from here. So, and also, the schools will be open and the girls and the women, they will be going to schools, and teachers, as students, so you will see it in a few days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH (on camera): But despite the Taliban's assurances, many Afghans worry the group will reinstate their old restrictive policies.
Joining me now to discuss, Fawzia Koofi, member of the negotiating team with the Taliban. Thank you so much for talking with us.
FAWZIA KOOFI, MEMBER, AFGHAN PARLIAMENT: Thank you.
CHURCH: The Taliban spokesman is promising there will be no problems for diplomats and aid workers. It will be a safe environment he says, but what about women? How will their lives change under Taliban rule?
KOOFI: I've been engaged now with the Taliban for the past two years trying to achieve a peaceful political settlement in a way that we can preserve that the people of Afghanistan have stood for in the past years. They have been saying the same thing in the negotiation. We have had a generic press statement from them indicating that they want women to go to school and work within Islamic principles.
Now I understand I remember when I was -- I live in Afghanistan all my life including the Taliban time that their interpretation of Islamic values is very, very extreme. And in fact, some of their foot soldiers in the provinces, in the ground right now they are actually implementing their extreme way of Islamic principles.
So, I think the political office in Qatar, Suhail Shaheen and the rest of the team that I know them. They have to make sure that whatever they say in terms of their policy is enforced by their foot soldiers. My concern is that most of these foot soldiers are people who have only seen guns and weapons in their lifetime.
They have only struggled as a military extremist. They have not seen school or education, and for most of them, girl's education does not mean anything but, you know, girls not respecting Islamic values of their definition.
So, I think they have to really practice what is happening in the rest of Muslim world, and take bold steps to assure people that we will not go back to scratch.
CHURCH: So, you are suggesting that the Taliban leadership but may have changed and modernized as some of them have suggested. But that's not trickling down to those leaders on the ground there in Afghanistan. Is that what you're saying?
KOOFI: Absolutely. The Taliban leadership should give a very good statement but those foot soldiers on the ground are doing differently. And the provinces I have been receiving reports, contacts, of the fact that women are not allowed to go outside without male companion. And we know that in the war a lot of male members of the family were killed, so woman is the breadwinner of the family.
[03:14:59]
On the other hand, to take a male company into the hospital or to work to accompany a woman is actually undermining women's legacy as a human being. So, I think there are -- we have to really follow the practices of other Muslim countries.
Afghanistan cannot be in segregation and in marginalization when it comes to the principles of Islamic values to the rest of the world. Nobody is arguing that we do not want Islamic values, but what Taliban are practicing and enforcing is mostly culture and tradition.
In addition to that, I think right now it's not only women. I think everybody is worried. I'm certain it's the chaos and the lawlessness society. So in this chaos, I think women are the main victims. CHURCH: Right. And how concerned are you now about life in general
under this new Taliban regime? And what are the changes are you expecting, because whatever is felt by the leadership outside Afghanistan, the Taliban leadership, we are not seeing those changes on the ground. We are already seeing hair salons cover-up pictures of women who aren't covering up their faces. There are changes already happening on the ground there, aren't they?
KOOFI: Right. Well, firstly, I hope that the people of Afghanistan will continue to demonstrate their resilience in terms of standing on their values and principles. I have already had a lot of coordination and women had been contact me -- contacting me for possible meetings on what to do.
So, people are alerted, I think that this is the generation that is transformed, and I think nobody, no government, will be able to oppress this generation. Now they have all the equipment, the means to inform the world.
In the meantime, people know that they are the victims of wrong politics of the previous government. Is it work only a good leadership from the previous government that could, you know, mobilize more political as well as sources to protect people? We would not have seen the situation where we are now.
But if a leader or a president of the country leaves before the rest of the people and flee the country, of course you will see the situation that we saw in the airport yesterday or even continue to see thousands of people, you know, running to the airport to flee because we have not been able to demonstrate a good role model leadership.
So, people have been left between bad and worse, unfortunately, not many good choices. Now that we are in this situation because of wrong politics of our leaders, and also I must say because of some mistakes and wrong politics of the world leaders, namely United States, I think it's now time for us to stick to our values, (Inaudible) any kind of oppression and make sure that the world hear our voice.
CHURCH: Fawzia Koofi, thank you so much for talking with us. We do appreciate it.
And coming up next, world leaders are calling for a unified response to the Taliban takeover with a number of emergency meetings imminent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Today was the last day so we have it like, free before in 20 years.
UNKNOWN: Once the Taliban captured the whole Afghanistan there is no future, no hope. No one feels safe. Even my family, anybody in Afghanistan, they don't feel safe.
UNKNOWN: All the Afghan people are crying, all of us are sad. All of us need support. My country now it's wounded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHURCH (on camera): World leaders are reacting to the fall of Afghanistan with immediate diplomatic talks. Foreign ministers from the European Union will hold an emergency session in the coming hours. Britain is also planning to host a virtual meeting of G7 leaders in the next few days. Britain's foreign secretary says the situation at Kabul's airport is stabilizing with hundreds of U.S. and British troops now their first support.
Meanwhile, the U.N. Security Council has stressed the importance of fighting terrorism in Afghanistan and called for an immediate end to all fighting and human rights abuses.
And we have reaction from all across the globe with reporters in Islamabad, Hong Kong, Moscow, and Paris. And we will begin in the French capital where there are concerns now of a migrant crisis in the aftermath of the Taliban takeover.
CNN's Melissa Bell joins us now. So, Melissa, talk to us about that concern, and of course, this imminent meeting.
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is going to, as you say, a number of meetings over the coming days. Emmanuel Macron focusing yesterday in his televised address and the fact that he has spoken to Boris Johnson. They will be working he said at the security council level, specifically on that question of terrorism and what happens next in Afghanistan on that front.
But clearly, here in Europe, beyond the immediate question of how to get European nationals back, that mass scramble we've seen at Kabul airport over the course of the last couple of days, they need to get back, also there's very many Afghans who helped the foreign European forces over the source of the years.
There is already here in Europe that question of the migrant crisis. That is already at the center of preoccupations, and it's likely to be at the heart of this meeting that's to take place later today between European foreign ministers, Rosemary, to look not just at the repatriation of European nationals, but the question of European borders.
We've heard Emmanuel Macron address the question directly yesterday, (Inaudible) the man now in charge of the city (Inaudible) in Germany also addressed it directly by tweet, saying that there could not be a repeat of the 2015 migration crisis.
Remember that the political repercussions of that here in Europe were such that everyone is very worried about any repeat or suggestion, that there may be a repeat of that as a result of what's happening in Afghanistan now.
So, that's likely to be at the heart of the discussions today, even as we've heard the head of the U.N. say that, look, there are already 18 million Afghans that is half of the entire population of the country, Rosemary, already in desperate need of humanitarian assistance.
CHURCH: All right. Melissa Bell, joining us live from Paris. Many thanks.
Now let's bring in CNN's Frederik Pleitgen who joins me now from Moscow. Good to see you, Fred.
So, we are hearing more about Russia's criticism of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. What all did the Russian president's special envoy have to say about that?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well there certainly were a lot of things, and I think one of the things that we have to keep in mind about Russia and Afghanistan, that the Russians of course because of their history of the Soviet Union having been in Afghanistan, and of course, also being a country that is quite close to Afghanistan as well.
They do have a great deal of expertise on the ground, and we also know that they've been building that expertise over the past couple of years as well. Now one of the things that the Russian envoy for Afghanistan said is that, the Russians were surprised at how fast the Afghan military their collapsed, how fast the Afghan President Ashraf Ghani fled the country.
He said, look, after the Soviet Union left Afghanistan, at least for three years the government that they left in place survived, and this government that was left in place by the U.S. did not even leave until the official exit date of the United States.
So, you can see that there was a little bit of gloating, but at the same time the Russians are also saying that right now their embassy is going to remain open on the ground. They say that currently as far as they can see the situation is calm and stabilizing there in Kabul. They believe that the Taliban is slowly bringing things under control.
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Also, another swipe at the U.S. with that same envoy saying that the Russians believe that the U.S. created a lot of the chaos that happened there at the airport there in Kabul because of the way that they decided to conduct their exit from Afghanistan.
So, a lot of criticism, but at the same time the Russians are saying that they are going to work with the situation. And you know, over the past couple of years, and really over the past 10 years, the Russians have been building up their contacts in Afghanistan, have been building up the talks that they've been conducting with all the factions in Afghanistan.
And they say, they simply are in contact with all of those who are in power and all the players on the ground in Afghanistan. So, the Russians say, they're going to take a wait and see approach towards the Afghanistan to see whether or not they are going to recognize the Taliban.
But at the same time, they believe right now there is no reason for them to abandon their embassy. They say certainly right now they can continue to operate, and then of course they are going to continue with those talks in Doha as well, to see how they move forward with the Taliban.
But they certainly say, and this is a quote from Russia's ambassador to the United Nations that right now there is no reason to panic, as they put it, Rosemary.
CHURCH: All right. Frederik Pleitgen, many thanks to you. Next, we go to Hong Kong where CNN's Kristie Lu Stout is standing by. Good to see you, Kristie.
So, we know U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke with his Chinese counterpart on Monday. What more are you learning about those discussions?
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they spoke on Monday, the Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi slammed America as he called it hurried exit from Afghanistan. But also said that China would be willing to work with the United States to create what the Chinese are calling a soft landing to promote stability in Afghanistan.
The goal here to avoid a humanitarian disaster, to avoid a civil war, and to avoid a return to becoming a safe haven for terrorism. But even before the Taliban take over once again of Afghanistan, we had seen what appeared to be warming ties between Beijing and the Taliban.
In fact, it was last month in July when Wang Yi, the foreign minister had welcomed a high-level delegation of Taliban leaders to the Chinese port city of Tianjin. And during that visit he called the Taliban a, quote, "important political and military force in Afghanistan."
Now observers say the reason why we're seeing these scenes that took place last month it's because of China's reluctant embrace of Afghanistan because China is deeply concerned for stability and security in the region. It's very concerned about border security.
China shares a border with Afghanistan, it's a short order but it's one that touches western Xinjiang region. China is also concerned about its significant and sizeable investments in Central Asia all under the One Belt One Road infrastructure project especially in Pakistan. But China has also signaled that it would extend that program into Afghanistan as well. It's also concerned about terror threats. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY STOREY, POLITICAL RISK ANALYST: I think China is really quite worried that the instability and chaos on the ground in Afghanistan factored with the Taliban's previous relationship, and indeed, ongoing relationship with the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement. They are worried that Afghanistan could become something of a training ground to this group. And I think Beijing would be worried that what's happening on the
ground in Afghanistan will provide an opportunity for a team to regroup and in their presence in Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT (on camera): On Monday when the Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi spoke to the U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Wang Yi said that he objected to what the United States did in October of 2020, taking this as a missed group off the U.S. terror list, introducing yet another point of contention between the U.S., and between China.
The minister of foreign affairs in China also said in a statement that the U.S. could not count on China if the U.S. impedes China's interests. Back to you.
CHURCH: All right. Kristie Lu Stout joining us there. Many thanks.
Now to CNN's Sophia Saifi who joins us live from Islamabad. Good to see you, Sophia.
So, Pakistan is calling the U.S. decision to withdraw a logical conclusion to the conflict, while emphasizing the need for an inclusive political settlement. How does Pakistan plan to make that happen?
SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN PRODUCER: Well, Rosemary, Pakistan has been in talks. There's been like a huge flurry of diplomatic activities since what happened over the weekend. Pakistan has obviously spoken to the U.S. secretary of state, and they have said that they are going to be working very closely with the U.S. to make sure that this inclusive government happens in Afghanistan.
Pakistan had a variety of different Afghan leaders which were here on Sunday night, and then they met with the foreign minister on Monday, again, emphasizing that all ethnicities should be included in any government that would be formed in Kabul.
[03:30:01]
Pakistan has got a lot of stake in what's going on in Afghanistan, obviously because of the large land border which connects the two countries, who are neighbors.
[03:30:00]
They also have, you know, concerns about the refugee of a possible refugee crisis on Pakistan's borders. The chairman border crossing in the southern province of (inaudible) has recently been reopened. Pakistan has had talks with the Afghan Taliban, and there is now movement of people coming in. That border was tightly sealed for almost a year, because of COVID.
So you've got lots of people now coming in across the border, very relaxed, their visa restrictions, so Afghan nationals are going (inaudible) I.D cards, can come true. A lot of these people already have homes in Pakistani city. The strong Pakistani links, because of the previous amount of -- Pakistan have the largest amount of Afghan refugees in the country, in the world, since you know, since the eighties.
So, there are (inaudible) banks within the country, and there are obviously concerns about security within Pakistan. Pakistan has already emphasized that it does not want the Afghan Taliban to harbor the Pakistani Taliban, the TTP which has been known to have to, you know, orchestrate some of the worst terrorist attacks that Pakistan has seen.
So, there are concerns about whether the Afghan Taliban, the new Taliban that had taken over Kabul, are even going to have -- are going to have the same kind of relationship that they had with Pakistan, previously. And, as Kristie said, there's obviously the China factors as well. So a lot of geodynamics changes taking place in this part of the world. Rosemary?
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Alright. Sophia Saifi, joining us live from Islamabad, many thanks.
And still to come, a closer look at the chaos in Kabul, and why President Biden stands by his decision to exit the country. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I stand squarely behind my decision, but I do not regret my decision to end America's war fight in Afghanistan. I cannot and will not ask our troops to fight on endlessly in another country's civil war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: The U.S. President there, defending his decision in the face of criticism over his administration's handling of the withdrawal from Afghanistan. That comes, one day after the fall of the Afghan government and the Taliban takeover of Kabul, where fighters have now flooded the streets.
[03:04:58]
The British foreign secretary, says the chaotic situation at the Kabul airport is stabilizing now, because some 600 U.S. and British troops are keeping it secure. But this is what it looked like Monday. Thousands of Afghans, swarming on to the tarmac, in a frantic attempt to escape the country after the Taliban takeover. Some were so desperate to get out, they tried to cling to the U.S. military plane as it taxied towards takeoff.
Satellite images showed just how crowded and chaotic the scene was at the airport. And you can see throngs of people scattered across the tarmac, and alongside the runway, blocking the few flights still entering or leaving Kabul. Another view shows the scene just outside the airport, traffic jams, in every direction. As Afghans desperately try to get out of the country.
The Kabul airport is a strategic asset that remains under U.S. control. But, what happens if and when that is no longer the case?
Oren Liebermann reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN CNN CORESPONDENT (voice over): The scenes unfolding at Kabul's international airport give you a sense of the despair, the panic and the chaos of what is effectively the most important piece of real estate in the entire country at this point. That international airport is the gateway in and out of the country for not only U.S. personnel, but Afghan interpreters and their families who helped Americans along the way as well as pretty much anyone trying to escape the country which is why it is so critical that the U.S. maintains and hold security at the airport.
Right now, as of Monday afternoon or so there are about 3,000 to 3,500 U.S. troops on the ground there with a specific mission of securing the airport. Remember embassy staff had already moved there. There is a bit of a functioning embassy down to its core staff as the U.S. tries to get those staffers and others out of the country. But there have been security incidents at and around the airport. The defense official says that U.S. troops fired upon two people they viewed as a threat killing those two people and there have been other security incidents as well.
Crucially though at this stage, for what we know defense officials say the Taliban has not engaged U.S. troops and there has been no exchange of fire between those two sides, meaning the plan to evacuate not only the embassy staff but others as well can move forward once the airport is up and running and the military and the civilian side. But that remains the key challenge. 6,000 troops will be or should be on the ground there in Afghanistan in Kabul at the airport as soon as possible to help secure the airport and that remains the key here.
It very much becomes a worst-case scenario if the airport falls apart even more so than the chaos in the scenes that we're already seeing. And crucially the worst-case scenario if the airport falls into Taliban hands because at that point the U.S. may well have to retake it, if it wants to evacuate not only its own staff, but all the Afghans that the U.S. has promised to bring out of the country.
Oren Liebermann, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHURCH: Joining me now to talk more about this is Colonel Peter Mansoor, former aide to General David Petraeus. Thank you so much, sir, for being with us.
COL. PETER MANSOOR, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED): Well, my pleasure. CHURCH: So President Biden says, he stands squarely behind his
decision to withdraw from Afghanistan and says, there is never a good time to withdraw. But the criticism being leveled against him is more about the chaotic execution of this withdrawal and evacuation at the airport. Why were U.S. citizens and Afghans who helped America not airlifted out of the country much earlier given the Taliban were moving rapidly towards Kabul?
MANSOOR: Yeah, I think the speed of the Taliban takeover really surprised everyone. Everyone thought that Kabul would hold and the fact that the Afghan Security Forces cut deals to basically cede the city to the Taliban never entered into people's equations. So, you know, the president is right that there is never a good time strategically to withdraw from a conflict, but there certainly could have been a better tactical time to do so.
CHURCH: And President Biden is still not saying why this Taliban takeover happened so much faster than anticipated. Although he pointed to the Afghan army giving up and the Afghan president fleeing. But why didn't the U.S. see this coming? Was this an intelligence failure?
MANSOOR: I think it is a massive 20-year failure of the U.S. military and our intelligence to really read the Afghan population, the Afghan military, the Afghan government and to understand what they were willing to fight for and what they were willing to not fight for.
[03:40:02]
You know, you can give them all the equipment and the training and the supplies to make them effective military, but you can't give them the will to fight and the will to stand firm against a very capable adversary and this is what we overlooked.
CHURCH: So what was the military logic in evacuating Bagram Airport just a few months ago only to return U.S. troops again to then help with this chaotic evacuation of U.S. embassy staff and Afghans? Bagram Airport would have been the perfect location to airlift everyone out. How flawed was that plan?
MANSOOR: Well given what has happened it was very flawed. Again this administration thought that they would have at least a year and at the very worst at least several months to get people to Kabul international airport to fly them out of the country and as it turns out they had days and weeks not months and years.
I think a better solution would have been to continue fighting through the summer and fall and then start withdrawing troops in the winter when the fighting season dies down which would have I think bought more time for an orderly evacuation, but that, of course, didn't happen.
CHURCH: Of course, there was that May 1st date that Donald Trump set that of course made the course of this inevitable didn't it? So I do want to just listen -- get to you to listen to a journalist question put to Major General Hank Taylor, the Vice Director of Logistics. Let's just bring that up. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: So there is no U.S. actions being taken to prevent that equipment from falling into the hands of the Taliban but destroying it or anything else?
HANK TAYLOR, VICE DIRECTOR, LOGISTICS: I don't have the answer to that question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: Colonel Mansoor, shouldn't he know the answer to that question? And why wouldn't this equipment have been destroyed so that they could avoid the Taliban getting their hands on it?
MANSOOR: Well with most of our troops gone that equipment is not in our possession anymore. You are talking about helicopters and fixed wing aircraft, artillery pieces and so forth. Yes in the best of all worlds you want to destroy it. It's not really hard to do.
But if it is not located where your troops are and our troops are only in one spot right now at Kabul International, then it's simply impossible to do it. We could perhaps fly aircraft over Afghanistan and drop bombs on it but that would really a very complicated and messy procedure, probably with lots of civilian casualties. So it is best just to let the Taliban take it.
CHURCH: So, Colonel, just finally, what is the future for Afghanistan, as you watch all of this play out? And is the U.S. safer or more at risk as a result of this?
MANSOOR: Certainly more at risk. But you got to figure the Taliban probably wants to stay in power this time. And, you know, we are banking on the hope that they have learned their lesson and they will not allow terror attacks to emanate from their soil. You know, there are a lot of other places from which ISIS and al-Qaeda can operate now. Afghanistan is pretty isolated. So fingers crossed that the Taliban will play nice but we will see.
CHURCH: We certainly shall. Colonel peter Mansoor, thank you so much for talking with us.
MANSOOR: Thank you.
CHURCH: The Biden administration is expected to advise COVID booster shots for most Americans. According to a source familiar with the discussions, they are planning to recommend a booster dose eight months after full vaccination.
A plan is still being developed and would need approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration first. But the rollout is expected in mid to late September, with health care workers care home patients and the elderly at the front of the line.
Well, on the other side of the world, New Zealand's Prime Minister says her country will begin a three-day lockdown after a new local case of COVID-19 was detected in Auckland. Jacinda Ardern says the level for lockdown will start just hours from now. Under this level, people must stay home in their bubble other than for essential travel.
Well the death toll is climbing in Haiti after Saturday's powerful earthquake dropped the southern part of the country. And now heavy rains from tropical storm Grace could compound problems already facing the island nation. More on both stories next.
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[03:45:00]
CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. Well, a developing story we are following this hour. Tropical Storm Grace is lashing Haiti right now just as the country is trying to recover from Saturday's devastating earthquake. The storm strengthened just a short time ago and it comes as the death toll from the quake keeps climbing with more than 1,400 people killed. Thousands more are injured and tens of thousands of homes are damaged or destroyed. Officials say. They're concerned about the storm impacting relief efforts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY CHANDLER, DIRECTOR, HAITI'S CIVIL PROTECTION AGENCY: Yes, I am worried about the storm as a disaster manager, like I said, it first puts an additional pressure on handling a disaster in a very complex situation. Also as a citizen, it also worries me because I know that my fellow citizens are sleeping outside and they might be impacted because of the rain and, you know, and the possible flash floods that may occur.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: Haiti's Prime Minister has promised to ramp up aid and recovery efforts for the victims of the quake. That includes increasing the number of government workers deployed to help.
And CNN's Joe Johns reports on the current relief efforts for quake victims.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A desperate scene in Les Cayes, as rescue workers aided by heavy duty machinery sift through the rubble in the wake of the 7.2 magnitude quake that struck southern Haiti Saturday. The U.S. and Columbia sending specialized rescue teams to help. While there have been moments of miraculous rescues, hope of finding more survivors under the flattened buildings and the mountains of debris is fading. The death toll according to Haiti Civil Protection Agency is more than 1,400.
UNKNOWN (through translator): The whole area where I live is destroyed. There are many people dead. We don't know how dead there are.
JOHNS: Local hospitals, some badly damaged by the quake overwhelmed by the estimated 5,700 people injured.
UNKNOWN (through translator): Yesterday it was really hard and we didn't have enough staff. We had the people who worked at the hospital, but we didn't have any staff. Although we kept them until 6:00 a.m.
JOHNS: International aid pouring into the country from the U.S., Mexico and around the world. But getting that aid to those most in need, a huge challenge. As officials work to establish a humanitarian corridor from Port-au-Prince to the affected areas to the south, free of gang violence.
A tall order for a nation already buckling beneath the weight of economic instability the COVID pandemic and political unrest following the assassination of the country's president last month. Haiti's Prime Minister appealing to his nation to work together to help those affected by the quake. Many now homeless and forced to sleep outside.
[03:50:00]
ARIEL HENRY, HAITIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): This is the moment to unite, to have a greater national unity. A greater solidarity with the victims. Let's forget our quarrels and come to the aid of those in difficulty.
JOHNS: The risk of further devastation as tropical storm Grace arrives. Punishing wind and rain now adding another challenge to rescue teams. The possibility of flash floods and mudslides.
At times like this in Haiti, it is often said that this country is stranded somewhere between hope and despair. And that was the case on Monday night. Hope for the people who were stranded out in the rain, people who had lost their homes, despair because it's the only the beginning of their misery.
Joe Johns, CNN, Port-au-Prince.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHURCH: Afghans across the globe watching the chaos unfold in their country in dismay. They are concerned about what Taliban rule might mean for their friends and family still living in Afghanistan. And they have just one plea to the world. Please help the Afghan people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELENA, AFGHAN REFUGEE: Look it's a disaster. I don't know. As an Afghan, I expect from the (inaudible), please support Afghanistan. Don't leave Afghans people alone.
JAWID AMERIAN, BUSINESS OWNER: I wish the community, especially President Biden and his administration make a better decisions regarding to this situation. And that they do not leave the country being destroyed by these extremist group.
MOKHLES R, AFGHAN REFUGEE: Please, U.K. government, do not punish my family. Do not leave them behind. Because that is going to cause loss of life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: Just ahead, more reaction. This time from veterans of the Afghan war. Some are watching the country collapse in anger, wondering if their sacrifices were worth it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHURCH: After two decades, trillions of dollars and thousands of lives lost, the U.S. Is leaving Afghanistan and the Taliban are taking over once again. Now many veterans of America's longest war are left wondering, what was it all for?
CNN's Brian Todd has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As they watch scenes of chaos from the Kabul airport and Taliban fighters walking through what was once a U.S. base manning American heavy armor, as they watch President Biden acknowledge their hardship.
BIDEN: The scenes we're seeing in Afghanistan they are gut-wrenching. Particularly for our veterans.
TODD: U.S. military veterans of America's longest war are speaking out about the collapse in Afghanistan. Many with a common refrain.
TOM AMENTA, AFGHANISTAN WAR VETERAN: I'm so angry. I don't understand the why now of it. And that is the thing that I think makes me even angrier is why -- there has been no real reason other than it is time.
JACK MURPHY, FMR U.S. ARMY RANGER AND GREN BERET IN AFGHANISTAN: My sons from the veterans who fought so hard over there in Afghanistan is that they are just heartbroken by this. Right now they are out of the military and they're having to answer the question of Afghanistan individually for themselves, ask themselves that question, what did it all mean? And I don't think we are anywhere even close to being able to answer that question yet.
[03:55:01]
TODD: CNN has spoken to several American veterans of the Afghanistan war as the country has devolved into anarchy in recent days. Many questioned the timing, the manner of the U.S. withdrawal. As the Afghan forces they helped trained have melted away.
UNKNOWN: It's really hard. It's really hard to watch this.
TODD: What should have been done differently here? What do you think?
TRAVIS HORR, FMR. U.S. MARINE LANCE CORPORAL IN AFGHANISTAN: I think that there was a lot of trouble with Afghanistan as far as America never fully committing to one part or the other and never fully committed to the nation building of building up the Afghan national army. We never fully committed to routing the Taliban completely.
TODD: With more than 2,400 of their fellow American service members dead, more than 20,000 wounded in Afghanistan, some veterans are expressing not only heartbreak and anger they're also putting this in the context of another long horrific American war in Vietnam. Chris Kolenda says, six of his soldiers were killed in Afghanistan.
CHRIS KOLENDA, COMMANDED SOLDIERS IN AFGHANISTAN: The policy that we had in Afghanistan in many ways was in vain or many of the policies are in vain. But they didn't died in vain, they died serving fighting next to their comrades.
TODD: Kevin Brewington (ph), who lost both legs and part of an arm in Afghanistan says the withdrawal was botched, but he does not think America is making a mistake with this withdrawal.
UNKNOWN: I think that we should had left earlier, personally I think we've been there too long.
TODD: But Travis Horr, who served in Helmand Province and worked with other veterans has a concern about some of his comrades who are watching some of what they fought for disintegrate.
HORR: That is definitely concern with potential suicide (inaudible) with somethings like the news like this. It is always a big concern when we are talking about this and veterans are thinking what it was all for. That can lead to some pretty dark thoughts.
TODD: While many veterans voice anger, frustration and heartbreak and others try to come to grips with just how they feel about the collapse in Afghanistan. At least one veteran puts it in some of the starkest and simplest terms. Retired army infantry man, Isaiah James, who served in Afghanistan told the "L.A. Times" quote, "at that point, my mission was getting back to America alive, that was it," he said.
Brian Todd CNN Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHURCH: As the crisis in Afghanistan rapidly evolves, you can find all of the latest updates on CNN.com or on the CNN app. Both have up to the minute reporting on the situation as it unfolds, as well as stories and perspectives you will only find online.
Thank you so much for watching this hour of "CNN Newsroom." I'm Rosemary Church. I will be back after this quick break.
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