Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden Defends Decision to Withdraw from Afghanistan; EU Foreign Ministers t Hold Emergency Meeting on Afghanistan; China Hopes Taliban Deliver on Smooth Transition; Russian Envoy to Afghanistan Criticizes U.S. Mission; Afghans Who Helped America Now Fear for Their Lives. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired August 17, 2021 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know my decision will be criticized. But I would rather take all that criticism than pass this decision on to another president of the United States, yet another one, a fifth one. Because it's the right one, it's the right decision for our people. The right one for our brave service members who risked their lives serving our nation. And it is the right one for America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: His comments coming as Taliban fighters flood the streets of Kabul sparking fear and uncertainty among the Afghan people. At the airport, the British foreign secretary says the situation is stabilizing after chaos broke out on Monday.

CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein joins me now. Good to have you with us.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So, President Biden has been criticized more for the chaotic execution of this withdrawal and evacuation, than by the actual decision to withdraw from Afghanistan after 20 years. In 2022 and 2024, will this prove to be a political miscalculation for Biden that haunts the rest of his term and his legacy, or will American voters support him on this?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, it's going to be part of the story. I mean, you just see it from the speech today. I mean he was very forceful and persuasive I think on the underlying rationale for the core decision to leave Afghanistan. He made a very strong case. He was much less persuasive and effective in defending the way that decision has been executed. Because really what can you say after the scenes we have seen in the last few days other than this fell apart much faster than we were anticipating.

I do think this will be part of the legacy of his presidency no matter what else happens. But I would caution against assuming that this is some kind of politically mortal blow. Don't forget, we had the Blackhawk Down debacle in Somalia very early in Bill Clinton's presidency and ultimately of course, he won re-election. So, I don't think that there is a lasting political consequence. I think a lot depends on what happens to the remaining Americans and whether he can in fact get them out safely. But there's no question that it was a stain and a debacle in the way it was executed.

CHURCH: Right, and President Biden is of course is the commander in chief, so the buck stops with him and he admits that. But he also blamed Donald Trump for locking the U.S. into a May 1st troop withdrawal in an unconditional deal made with the Taliban. So why didn't Biden try to reverse that flawed Trump deal? That was possible. He could have made a better deal.

BROWNSTEIN: There are very few causes I think that Joe Biden shows more personal commitment and engagement to than ending the American engagement in Afghanistan. I mean, you know, I was trying to think today, I mean there are a lot of items on the Democratic wish list that he advances universal pre-k, universal community college, the child tax credit, but what does he really personally put his oar in the water about. And we could say, well, union organizing at home.

But ending the American engagement in Afghanistan has been something that he has wanted to do for a very long time. And when he got to be president, it was very clear that he was going to do it. So, you know, the Trump agreement was flawed. And it did embolden and empower the Taliban, but it pushed in the direction I think that Biden wanted to go which was to get out. Now he gotten out, now he owns that.

CHURCH: And of course, some Republicans say all the Afghans who helped the U.S. in the country should be airlifted out, while other Republicans suggest this is Biden's way of flooding the U.S. with migrants, with immigrants. What is the politics behind that very mixed GOP message?

BROWNSTEIN: And you know, you see the kind of two instincts in the GOP colliding. I mean, kind of the desire to be hard line on foreign policy, particularly on Islamic terrorism, and the nativism that has become a dominant impulse in the party over the last decade, 15 years really, and certainly, in the Trump era.

Look, I think that this will be conflicted ground. We remember the settlement of the Vietnamese refugees, but even that was contested ground 45 years ago in the 1970s with some states welcoming them and obviously there being pressure on other fronts. I do think that this will be contested, although I think on balance Americans do feel a burden of debt to those who worked with us for 20 years and are now facing the return of a very savage and dark rule.

CHURCH: And just very quickly, why do you think was President Biden so definitive six weeks ago when he said it was highly unlikely the Taliban would take over Afghanistan. Those words will come back to haunt him over and over again.

BROWNSTEIN: I think they will. And I think, look, he is not the first president to have deluded himself or allowed himself to be deluded about was happening in Afghanistan.

[04:35:00] Whatever we can say about the choices of Biden and Trump and even the previous presidents, the fact is that very, very few armed soldiers in the Afghan army thought it was worth fighting to prevent the Taliban from coming back into power. And I found myself thinking today how many men in Afghanistan with guns were willing to fight to prevent the reimposition of the government that will deny the capacity of their daughters to go to school.

You know, I thought the president was on his strongest ground today when he said if they are not willing to do this, we ultimately cannot hold it off ourselves. I think people agree with that, I think the problem is, as you said, was the execution which has turned into, you know, something very close to utter chaos.

CHURCH: Yes, Ron Brownstein, many thanks. As always, appreciate it.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

CHURCH: Former president George W. Bush and his wife Laura are sending a message of support to American troops and veterans who fought in the war on terror. You will recall of course that the war began under his watch back in 2001. They also thanked those who returned to help evacuate thousands of Americans still in Afghanistan.

In a statement they say: Many of you deal with wounds of war both visible and invisible. And some of your brothers and sisters in arms made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror. Each day we have been humbled by your commitment and your courage. You took out a brutal enemy and denied Al Qaeda a safe haven while building schools, sending supplies and providing medical care. You kept America safe from further terror attacks, provided two decades of security and opportunity for millions, and made America proud. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts and will always honor your contributions.

Well, in the coming hours, foreign ministers in the European Union will hold an emergency session in the aftermath of the Taliban takeover. And British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is planning to host a virtual meeting of G7 leaders in the next few days. German Chancellor Angela Merkel was blunt in her assessment of Afghanistan's fall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): Since the withdrawal of foreign troops from Afghanistan, we must witness how the Taliban are taking over province by province and city by city at breathtaking speed and how they brought the entire country under their control again. This is a very bitter development, bitter, dramatic and terrible, especially for the people in Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Melissa Bell is in Paris with more on reaction in Europe. Good to see you, Melissa. So, the EU will soon be holding an emergency meeting on the situation in Afghanistan. What's expected to come out of that meeting and what's been the reaction there in France? MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the first priority for EU

foreign ministers is going to be looking at how they can get their nationals and those Afghans who have helped them over the years, out of the country as safely and as quickly as possible. After this chaotic scene that we saw, we know that one French aircraft has managed to bring special forces in to lend a hand at the airport, just as extra British troops have been sent to work alongside American troops to try and stabilize the situation on the ground.

That airplane then bringing out French nationals as well. A series of plays now in Abu Dhabi who are sending rotations in to try to get French nationals out as quickly as they can. We know that the foreign ministers therefore are going to be looking first and foremost at that immediate crisis situation, how to get their people and those who helped them out of the country over the next few days.

But there is of course behind that already the concern of what this could mean for migration crisis that we saw back in 2015. So many European leaders warning over the last few days that the last thing they want to see is a repeat of that. Have a listen to what the French president had to say on French television last night.

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): Afghanistan's destabilization risk cause a regular migration risks to Europe. France, as I've said, have and will continue to do its duty, those who are most threatened. We will do our full part in an organized and fair international effort. But Afghanistan also needs in times to come to mobilize their forces. But Europe cannot be the only ones to take on consequences of the current situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BELL (on camera): At the heart of the meeting today, Rosemary, is likely to be also this Franco/German initiative that we've been hearing about, that really looks to help neighboring countries to see how they can help to take in the refugees that will be coming from Afghanistan over the next days. Again, to repeat what we saw in 2015 which were those migrants heading to Europe causing all kinds of political damage and division within the European Union. That first and foremost will be on the minds of the foreign ministers as they meet this afternoon.

CHURCH: All right, Melissa Bell joining us live from Paris, many thanks.

[04:40:00]

Well, after two decades of battling the Taliban, the U.S. now has to consider whether to recognize them as a governing body. The diplomatic dilemma, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: In an effort to restore stability in Afghanistan, three top Afghan officials say they have formed a special council to continue dialogue with the Taliban. The decision comes after former President Ashraf Ghani's swift departure left the possibilities of peace uncertain. On Monday, the council held what they called fruitful conversations with the militant group. Meanwhile a Taliban spokesman in Doha told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that some of the freedoms enjoyed under the former government will remain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUHAIL SHAHEEN, TALIBAN SPOKESMAN: There are many journalists right now based in Kabul. Foreign journalists, they carry out their work and filing reports from here. So -- and, also, the schools will be open. And the girls and women, they will be going to schools and as teachers, as students. So, you will see it in a few days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And we are starting to hear more about how Russia and China plan to deal with the new government. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is in Moscow. But first let's go to Hong Kong where CNN's Kristie Lu Stout has reaction from China. Good to see you, Kristie. So, China says it's ready for friendly relations with the new Taliban government. What are China's interests in the region?

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rosemary, it all comes down to one word, stability. No on Monday, China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi spoke with the U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and, yes, Wang Yi slammed America's hasty exit from Afghanistan.

[04:45:00]

But he also signaled this, that China was willing to work with the United States in order to create a soft landing for Afghanistan, in order to promote stability for the country as the Taliban retake the country. And the goal here is to avoid a humanitarian catastrophe, to avoid a civil war and to avoid a return to becoming a haven for terrorists.

Now even before the Taliban took over Afghanistan yet again, relations were warming between Taliban and Beijing. We'll bring up the video from you of events that took place just last month in July where Wang Yi, the Chinese Foreign Minister, welcomed a delegation of high-level Taliban leaders to the Chinese port city of Tianjin. And he called the Taliban -- again, this was a month ago -- an important political and military force in Afghanistan.

Observers have been watching this very closely and saying that this is a very reluctant embrace of the Taliban by China and what is fueling this is deep concerns about instability in the region. Number one, there's a lot of concern about the border between Afghanistan and China. They share a very short border, but it touches the western Xinjiang region of China.

There's also a lot of concern among the Chinese about the investments that China has been making in central Asia especially the one belt one road significant infrastructure investments made in Pakistan. And China has signaled that it would also extend those investments in Afghanistan as well. And lastly but not least the threat of terror and terrorist activities taking place and being launched from Afghanistan. Back to you -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: And thanks for that, Kristie. And Fred, Russia's ambassador to the U.N. says there is no point in panicking about Afghanistan and that Russia will interact with the Taliban. What is that relationship likely to look like?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think one of the important things, Rosemary, that the Russians have been taking a very strategic approach to dealing with Afghanistan. Certainly, have been building up contacts with the Taliban as with all of their player on the ground and I think that is where the Russians feel that they are in a fairly comfortable position. As you said that their envoy to the U.N. saying now is no time to panic.

Also, their envoy for Afghanistan are saying that they are in touch with all sides. Obviously also taking a swipe at the United States, saying that when the Soviet Union left Afghanistan, at least the government that they left behind lasted for three years. Whereas the government of the U.S. left behind didn't even last until the date of the actual pulling out of the country, the official date.

But the Russians for their part are taking a wait and see approach. They say that in Kabul they're going to have some meetings with the Taliban over the course of the next couple days. However, they also say their embassy is fully functional and working. It's not going to be evacuated. They say they believe that the Taliban are going to be able to provide for security there.

One of the interesting things that we've also heard from that envoy of the Russians to Afghanistan, is he said he believes that speaking to the Taliban or speaking to the new people, the new strong people in Afghanistan, he says, is a lot more productive he believes than what he calls the puppet government that was there before. So, you can see the Russians very critical of the Ghani government. That of course until yesterday really was at least on paper still in power, and already looking forward to possibly a new chapter. And I think one of the things that Kristie said about these countries really taking an approach of stability, for the Russians that counts as well.

Of course, they have a lot of allies in that region, for instance Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, that do share borders with Afghanistan -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong, many thanks to you both.

Well, Afghans who helped America now fear they will be targeted by the country's new rulers. We will look at why the U.S. is moving so slowly to get them to safety. We're back in just a moment.

[04:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: The Afghans who helped American troops and diplomats number in the tens of thousands. They are now in mortal danger. Many have applied for special U.S. immigrant visas hoping that they can escape to America with their lives. CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood reports on the challenges they face.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Afghans chase down an American plane, revealing the desperation to escape. Tens of thousands of Afghans who helped U.S. diplomats and U.S. troops in Afghanistan have applied for special immigrant visas or SIVs. And they are currently trapped in the country terrified that they and their families will be targeted by the Taliban if they don't get out.

ISMAIL, SIV APPLICANT: I'm under the threat, and the threat following me. I'm like a prisoner. I'm just staying at home.

ATWOOD (voice-over): Today we spoke with one SIV applicant, Ismail, whose full name we are concealing to keep him safe. He worked with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers at Bagram air base. Ismail was denied a visa in the past and has tried to reapply. He says with the Taliban now a control of the country, he doesn't believe their assurances that people like him will be safe.

ISMAIL: Taliban are the people that they never keep their promise. They are promise breakers.

ATWOOD (voice-over): While the U.S. has evacuated 2,000 Afghans and their families in recent weeks to the U.S., it's only a small fraction of the 60,000 who would qualify for SIVs or refugee status. And that number does not include their families. Last week, the top U.S. diplomat in the country urged the department in a cable back to Washington to include a wider swathe of Afghans in its evacuation planning.

And now as pandemonium overwhelms Afghanistan, the Biden administration is coming under fire for not getting these Afghans out of the country more quickly.

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We are doubling down on efforts to get them out if they want to leave.

ATWOOD (voice-over): Biden administration officials have threatened severe consequences if the Taliban interfere with Afghans heading to the airport. But right now, they won't assist Afghans who are trying to get there safely.

JONATHAN FINER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: The United States is not in a position now and will not be in a position going forward to provide security throughout the city of Kabul and throughout the nation of Afghanistan.

[04:55:00]

We are focused on the airport.

ATWOOD (voice-over): The U.S. has the capacity to move 5,000 people a day out of the country. But with the chaos at the airport, it's not clear when the U.S. will be able to start moving that many people out of the crumbling country.

ATWOOD: We've asked the State Department what their goal is in terms of how many of these Afghan interpreters they want to get out of the country before the U.S. no longer has a presence at the airport in Kabul. They underscored they want to maintain a presence at that airport for as long as they can. But they wouldn't give us an exact figure for the number of Afghan interpreters they want to get out because the situation is so fluid.

Now the Pentagon has said that they are preparing to house up to 22,000 of these interpreters, but time is really of the essence and the question is how quickly the United States can get those Afghans out of the country.

Kylie Atwood, CNN, the State Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: And before we go, a look at how the opinion pages in the U.S. are covering the Taliban takeover. And President Biden's handling of the fallout. From Axios, Biden stain U.S. flees Kabul. At the "Washington Post," the headline reads, Afghan lives ruined or lost will be part of Biden's legacy. And there is this criticism from a "USA Today" piece, withdrawing from Afghanistan makes sense but Biden's execution is a disaster.

Well, thank you so much for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. Be sure to connect with me on Twitter @rosemaryCNN. "EARLY START" is up next. You're watching CNN. Have a wonderful day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)