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Mayhem on Streets Near Kabul Airport as Afghans Try to Escape; White House to Present Data on Duration of Vaccine Protection; Afghans Who Worker with U.S. Desperately Try to Flee the Country. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired August 18, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: It's the top of the hour. Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Breaking this morning, we're getting stunning images out of Afghanistan as the Taliban tighten their grip on the country and the capital, mayhem unfolding in the streets as thousands are desperately trying to find ways to flee the country.

Just a short time ago, our Clarissa Ward was on the streets of Kabul as Taliban fighters opened fire into the air to clear crowds. Here is how it played out as Afghans surrounded her during a live report.

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CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Taliban appears to be trying to disperse the crowds and there are crowds there of young men who seem to be engaging in criminal activity. I don't know if you heard that. They're kind of running towards the Taliban and running away from them again, almost like it's a game. But when there's bullets firing like that, Brianna and John, it's clearly not a game.

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HARLOW: Well, Clarissa then made her way with her team to the Kabul airport where the Taliban is in control. She and her crew encountered another incredibly dangerous situation. Watch this.

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WARD: We had Taliban fighters all around approaching us, shouting. One man shouting at me to cover my face or he wouldn't talk to me. He was carrying this huge makeshift whip. It was a bicycle lock that had basically been split in two. So, the heavy metal padlock was in the middle. He was just using it to get anybody out of his way that gets in his way. There was a consistent stream of gunfire. We also were just accosted by people. John, it's so heartbreaking, everybody coming up to us with their papers, their passports, saying, please, I worked at Camp Phoenix, I worked at this camp, I was a translator. Help me get in. Help me get to America. Help me get my SIV, my visa to get out of the country. And then the Taliban would just come through, at one stage, this one fighter lifted his gun up in the air as if he was about to start firing rounds, so we had to run and take cover.

And then the most frightening moment for our team came when our producer, Brent Swails, was taking video on his iPhone, two Taliban fighters came up with their pistols and ready to pistol whip him. And we had to intervene and scream. And there was actually another Taliban fighter who came in and said no, no, no, don't do that. They're journalists.

But, I mean, really, I've covered all sorts of crazy situations. This was mayhem. This was nuts. This is impossible for an ordinary civilian, even if they had their paperwork, no way they're returning that gauntlet, no way they're going to be able to navigate that. It's very dicey, it's very dangerous and it's completely unpredictable. There's no order, there's no coherent system for processing people, separating those with papers from those who don't have papers. And, honestly, to me it's a miracle that more people haven't been very, very seriously hurt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Wow. That paints just a chaotic and tragic picture. Clarissa, thank you to your team on the ground for all the reporting, to you. And as the Afghan people face this incredible dang us that Clarissa just laid out, we have just learned that the former Afghan president, Ashraf Ghani, who fled the country over the weekend, has now arrived in the UAE.

SCIUTTO: Yes. He was the elected president in the country, not safe for him to be in that country. He's gone.

Let's bring in CNN National Security Correspondent Kylie Atwood at the State Department and CNN White House Correspondent Jeremy Diamond, he's at the White House.

So, Kylie, I mean, this is an enormous task here. We're talking about thousands, perhaps tens of thousands that the country wants to get out of there, might have some claim to it but they have a two-week deadline. What's happening?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, so, you've got a few complicating factors here that are basically fueling the reality, that the administration isn't giving us any clear answers as to if they can successfully pull off this massive evacuation operation and how they can do it, because you have, first of all, this expectation that the U.S. military is going to pull out of the Kabul airport at the end of the month.

Now, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said that the U.S. is discussing that timeline with the Taliban right now, wouldn't get into the details. But that is essentially where it stands now. That is a short timeframe to get out, tens of thousands, if not, hundreds of thousands of these Afghans who have applied for immigrant visas to the United States, have applied for refugee status.

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And you have thousands that have gotten out in the last two weeks. 2,000 of these Afghan interprets have gotten out. But that is, frankly, a drop in the bucket in comparison to the large numbers.

And the bottom line here is also how they're going to get to the airport, even if, as the United States said, they're trying to speed up these evacuation flights, because, as you see there on the ground from Clarissa, it is incredibly chaotic.

Now, the Biden administration has said that they are relying on a commitment from the Taliban to allow for safe passage to the airport. But as you can well see, that is not the case in the area right around the airport there. So we're going to have to see how the Biden administration perhaps changes based on what is happening on the ground there.

HARLOW: Jeremy, we had Congressman Seth Moulton on, a Democratic, last hour who once again explained how he's been asking for answers from the White House, not just for days or weeks, but for months on this. And yet we still see the absolute mayhem on the ground at the airport that Clarissa just described in such stark detail. How does the White House explain that? I mean, what was the plan when the warning couldn't have been more clear that exactly this could happen?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, listen, there are several things that we heard from the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, yesterday that just aren't lining up with the reality on the ground. First of all, as Kylie said, he said that the Taliban had promised the United States that civilians would get safe passage to the airport. As of now, that doesn't seem to be happening, certainly not happening in an orderly fashion.

And then what he also said was he insisted that United States had planned for all contingencies, including the rapid fall of Kabul. And if this is contingency planning at its finest, then I don't know what to say here. Because, clearly, the scenes of chaos, the inability of people who actually have papers, including one person who had a green card, who showed our colleague, Clarissa Ward, his green card, who was unable to get past the Taliban checkpoints to get into the airport, clearly, this is not going according to plan.

But one of the points that Jake Sullivan also stressed yesterday was essentially that chaos was inevitable, that if the Taliban took Kabul, whether it happened in a matter of days or in a matter of months, that there would been these kinds of chaotic scenes of people rushing to the airport. But, of course, that underscores the fact that there could have been thousands of people who could have perhaps avoided that chaos, who could have already been on planes to the United States, who could have already been resettled to the United States had the Biden administration picked up the pace of those evacuations, not in the last few days or weeks, but rather in April when President Biden announced that all U.S. forces were going to leave Afghanistan by September 11th.

So, clearly, again, despite the Biden administration's insistence that they planned for all contingencies, we are seeing none of that planning actually playing out on the ground. Instead, we're just seeing these pictures of pretty chaotic scenes.

HARLOW: Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thank you very much for that reporting, Kylie, to you, of course, at the State Department as well.

SCIUTTO: Now to the pandemic. In less than an hour, the White House and President Biden will provide details about the rollout of COVID-19 vaccine booster shots. We're also expecting the White House COVID-19 team to present three sets of data which suggests waning vaccine protection against COVID-19 infection in the U.S. from the existing vaccines.

HARLOW: Important distinction there, waning protection against infection, not necessarily hospitalization or death.

SCIUTTO: Hospitalization and death, which is a key distinction.

HARLOW: Yes, it still helps a lot on those, this as hospitals all over the country are running out of room to treat patients.

So, let's go to our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, good morning to you. I know you spoke with a senior federal health official about what's to come today, in less than an hour. What did you learn?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I learned is that, for the first time, we're going to see some data from the United States that's going to make the case that the vaccines do tend to have a little bit of waning effectiveness against mild or moderate disease, not against hospitalization and death, as you mentioned. But the concern, as they sort of explained it to me, they've looked at three different sets of data, including from long- term care facilities, from hospitals, and then from the general population in New York, and they see that people who are vaccinated are more likely to have symptomatic breakthrough infections than in the past.

Again, these could be mild infections. They can be moderate. Most times, they were people who'd actually have symptoms, because, as you remember, people who were vaccinated really weren't getting tested unless they developed some symptoms. So I think we're going to hear more about this.

And I should say, again, this is the first time we're seeing this data, which is a little surprising because it sounds like even within agencies, such as the CDC, such as the FDA, they haven't seen some of this data as of yet.

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So, the country will sort of see the data together. In fact, just yesterday, there was a call that the CDC did with clinicians about booster shots. And just take a listen to what they said just yesterday about this.

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DR. NEELA GOSWAMI, MEMBER, CDC VACCINE TASK FORCE (voice over): We do want to clarify right away that the need for and timing of a COVID-19 booster dose has not been established.

DR. KATHLEEN DOOLING, MEMBER, CDC VACCINE TASK FORCE (voice over): Other fully vaccinated individuals do not need an additional dose right now.

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GUPTA: So, again, just yesterday, so if that sounds confusing, it is a bit, but the caveat is this, that we're going to hear from the task force today. And they're going to say here is the data, here is what we're worried about and here is why we think boosters are going to be necessary. But all of this is still contingent on the FDA actually authorizing this, authorizing now a third shot before the vaccine is even fully approved. And that will be based on safety data, some of which still has to be presented. And then the advisory committee to the CDC has to officially recommend this as well. So there are two big steps still but it sounds like this is happening and is probably going to happen soon.

GUPTA: Okay. So three major vaccines have been available here in the U.S., the two mRNA ones, Pfizer and Moderna, and then the Johnson & Johnson one, which has a different kind of approach to this. Most of the discussions of boosters around the mRNA vaccines, what should folks who have been vaccinated with the Johnson & Johnson shot, how should they take this information?

GUPTA: Well, I mean, I'm sure it's all frustrating to them, because, oftentimes, the discussions has always been around the messenger RNA, the mRNA vaccines. I asked about that specifically, and they brought up the point that, first of all, with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, it was authorized, a few months later than the original vaccines. And as a result, there's less data. There's also fewer people who have taken that vaccine, about 20, 22 million or so that have received those shots, so less data overall.

Having said that, it sounds like there is going to be some movement on the J&J vaccine as well. They say they specifically likely to recommend boosters at some point in the future, maybe within the next couple weeks as well. We'll see. But they want to be able to review that data, answer some of these same questions and make sure that they can make the case that it would be safe to give a booster and that it would be efficacious, it would actually have increased effectiveness.

As you know, they've been doing this in some places around the world and even in the country. San Francisco was giving boosters of mRNA vaccines to those who had received Johnson & Johnson. So, some of the data already exists, they're going to compile that, and I imagine we're going to hear about that J&J some time soon.

HARLOW: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you. I know you'll be with us as we all listen to what they have to say in less than an hour's time. Thanks a lot.

SCIUTTO: It will be an important update.

Next, we're going to break down the numbers for you in just how many Afghans are looking for America's help to escape the Taliban. You might be surprised by how high that figure is.

HARLOW: Also, an Afghan interpreter who made it out of his country joins us live to talk about the terrifying scenes we're seeing at the airport, what he's hearing from family and friends still on the ground there.

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SCIUTTO: As we watch the desperate scenes of people trying to escape Afghanistan, we wondered how many Afghans actually need the protection of the U.S. So, here are the facts.

The International Rescue Committee says about 300,000 Afghans have been affiliated with the U.S. mission in Afghanistan in the nearly two decades since 9/11. But Congress has approved enough special immigrant visas or SI visas, as they're known, to accommodate just over 10 percent of that number, 34,500. And we should note they often take years to process.

The State Department says up to 60,000 additional people, including human rights defenders, could qualify for expanded visa programs. But, again, those applications also take time. Some have waited months. Many are still waiting.

Yesterday, I spoke to one translator who worked with the U.S. for years and is now in hiding for his safety.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they need my help, I help them. Now I need their help, they should help me.

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SCIUTTO: Well, the U.S. has evacuated just about 2,000 Afghans with special immigrant visas starting in July. And since things rapidly deteriorated over the week, another 800 or so have made it out. But they've got a long way to go. We all saw this striking image of 640 people crammed into a single C-17 jet. Starting today, the U.S. military is hoping to get one flight out of the country every hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAJ. GEN. HANK TAYLOR, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, JOINT STAFF REGIONAL OPERATIONS: We predict that our best effort could look like 5,000 to 9,000 passengers departing per day. But we are mindful that a number of factors influence this effort, and circumstances could change.

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SCIUTTO: We should also highlight U.S. officials say there are up to 11,000 Americans still in Afghanistan as well. Right now, hundreds of Afghan soldiers are helping to secure the Kabul airport so that those evacuation flights can take off, but even for them, those soldiers, there are no guarantees.

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REPORTER: Has a commitment been made to them that they will also be evacuated afterwards once this mission is complete?

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY (RET.), PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: That would have to be a decision by those individuals, if they wanted to, to apply for a visa and to pursue that approach, that it would be up to those Afghans to make that decision for themselves.

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SCIUTTO: Well, there are other countries, such as Germany, Australia and the U.K. helping as well. The U.K. plans to relocate as many as 20,000 Afghans.

HARLOW: Really important facts, especially in a moment like this.

Okay. Joining me now is Hewad Hemat, a former interpreter who worked with U.S. forces in Afghanistan on a number of levels. Still has friends there and family there. He did settle here in Connecticut with his wife and children in 2014, became an American citizen last year. Before coming to the U.S., he ran an outreach program in Afghanistan to build resistance to the Taliban and discourage people from joining their Taliban ranks. Also with me is Chris George, the executive director of IRIS, Integrated Refugee and Immigrant Services, a refugee resettlement agency in Connecticut. Thank you so both so much for being here.

And, Hewad, especially to you, I'm so sorry it's under these circumstances. I'm so sorry about what your family and your friends in Afghanistan must be going through right now.

You're scared, and you have said that you fear that no one will be left alive if they're left to help the United States. What have they told you?

HEWAD HEMAT, FLED AFGHANISTAN IN 2014 WITH WIFE AND FIVE CHILDREN: Thank you, Poppy, for having me today. Yes, I'm scared for the safety and security of my family, my friends, relatives and all those left behind, SIVs and other folks who partnered in the war, entire mission with the United States.

And there are like plenty examples that people are being killed because of supporting U.S. mission there and despite Taliban like give them their words, like we forgive you guys. But later on, they've been killed by Taliban. And there are reports by human rights organizations as well that when the Taliban, of course, captured people (INAUDIBLE) district of Kandahar. So, first, they forgive people, later on, they kill them.

So it's why now other people are in panic, they're scared, there's chaos and people believe like however Taliban like announce general amnesty, but still they don't believe them because Taliban action and words, they are different.

HARLOW: Hewad, I don't know if we have this picture, but I saw a picture on Twitter this morning of you holding up a Biden 2020 sign, so proud that you voted for President Biden. It was your first time you could vote. You had just become a citizen. And I wonder if you have a message for the president on this right now.

HEMAT: Actually I regret that decision right now, because politician -- that's true that the politician, in many cases, they deliver their promises, but when there is like -- the side effect is more than the advantages, then politician make a U-turn. He didn't do that. He left Afghanistan alone, in chaos. And it's not just Afghans. They also -- he also put like American forces, American allies in harm right now. And he had the tools. He had the tools, like this thing was preventable. But he didn't use it.

So, my point is here like I'm kind of like disappointed of his action and this thing was preventable. And the real source of this problem was not touched. Pakistan supported Taliban and no one told anything to Pakistan. Pakistan is like -- they unleashed all their terrorists and extremists towards Afghanistan. Now, they're celebrating the Taliban victory, not just Pakistan, but there are some other like extremist groups around the world, they're also celebrating Taliban victory.

So, Russian embassy is open now. United States embassy is shut down. This is America --

HARLOW: It's significant to hear you say you regret voting for President Biden because of what has happened of the action and inaction, in your view, especially on those that are still left there who aided Americans.

Chris, I wonder what you think of the plea from Congressman Seth Moulton, Democratic of Massachusetts, in the last week and to us just last hour on the program, saying, deal with the paperwork later, get them out, get these people out. You're nodding. Are you in agreement with that?

CHRIS GEORGE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTEGRATED REFUGEES AND IMMIGRANT SERVICES: That's exactly what we have to do. We need to get as many of these people who have risked their lives to help the U.S. government, we need to get them to safety and then process them however long it takes. No one is arguing about doing security checks. Of course, we need that. But get them to a safe place. Getting to the airport is difficult and also life-threatening.

[10:25:04]

We've all seen reports from your reporters that it's very difficult to even get to the airport.

So, the U.S. government has got to figure this out. We can't just turn our back on these people. There are thousands of people and their families who really need to get out. Bring them to the United States, and then our work begins. We roll up our sleeves, we find housing for them. We will enroll kids in school, connect them to health care, help them learn English, help them find jobs. They'll become fine U.S. citizens. We'll be proud to help them.

HARLOW: You do amazing work. You just brought over a single man from Kandahar, a family of six who made it out of Kabul on one of the last commercial flights. Obviously, the work you do on the ground is critical.

Hewad, just finally to you, is there something the Biden administration could do now in your opinion that would change your view, that would make you proud of your vote? I mean, what specifically -- what action are you calling for now?

HEMAD: Yes. He can send more help to the ground. Because right now, the only evacuation spot is Kabul and people have been stuck in the provinces at the south, at the north, at the east. So, if they're going to establish more pickup spots, that will help those all left behind to evacuate safely. Because right now, many people, they cannot make it to Kabul. And also, no one was expecting this kind of rapid chaos. Like many people even, they don't have passports. So now, people are left behind. I think the government has the tools and help. So I'm suggesting to send more help there and create more pickup spots in the country.

HARLOW: Okay. Hewad Hemat, thank you very much. And your family there, your friends, they are all in our thoughts, Chris George, to you for the really remarkable work you do on the ground, thank you both.

HEMAD: You're welcome.

GEORGE: Thank you, Poppy, for covering this.

SCIUTTO: Well, the Biden administration is now worried that COVID vaccine protection against severe disease and hospitalization, while that is still strong, they're concerned about its efficacy against infection. What that means for you and the possibility of booster shots, next.

But, first, a quick programming note. Join CNN for We Love New York City, the homecoming concert, this once in a lifetime concert event Saturday starting at 5:00 Eastern Time exclusively on CNN.

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