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Hospitalizations Hit Record for Kids and Adults under 50; Richina Bicette is Interviewed about COVID Cases; Nick Ochsner is Interviewed about Afghanistan. California's Caldor Fire Grows. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired August 19, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Ninety-five percent of beds occupied.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And the CDC says the rates of hospitalizations for children and young adults are at their highest levels since the start of the pandemic.

Joining us now, senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.

Elizabeth, this jump in hospital -- well, not jump, increase in hospitalizations among younger people, it's significant, right, because from the beginning of this pandemic, the guidance and the evidence has been that kids are relatively immune from this.

How much has this changed?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's changed quite a bit, actually. I know that this is still a coronavirus, we're still calling the disease COVID-19, but I think we need to have a little bit of c-change in our own heads. This is different. Delta is different. It is much more contagious and the numbers with children really bear out this difference.

So let's take a look at the hospitalization rates that Jim was just referring to. Look to the far-right. That's hospitalizations for children and teens now. And then if you look to the left, that's at the height of the pandemic. Remember sort of what we all went through in November, December, January. They're actually higher now. The rates are actually higher now. And they're --

SCIUTTO: Just to be clear, though, as we look at that, that's 2,000 nationally?

COHEN: Right.

SCIUTTO: OK.

COHEN: So that's -- those are nationally.

SCIUTTO: Two thousand nationally in a country of 330 million people with many tens of millions of children.

COHEN: Oh, you mean children hospitalized?

SCIUTTO: It's higher than where it's been before.

COHEN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COHEN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I'm saying like put that number in some context for us.

COHEN: So, look, I'm going to put it in context to you as a parent. This is the only way that I really know how to do it. I think what you're thinking is, 2,000, that's not that many. There are, you know, millions upon millions upon millions of children.

SCIUTTO: Well, everyone counts. I'm just trying to put in scale.

COHEN: Right. But I don't want my child to be in that 2,000.

SCIUTTO: Of course.

COHEN: That's what I'm going to tell you. I don't want my child to be one of the 2,000 children who ends up being hospitalized. And you can't say, oh, my child's healthy. Those are just children that have underlying problems. That's not true. Perfectly healthy children are getting COVID and are ending up hospitalized. So maybe it is -- you might say only 2,000, but, still, you don't want your child to be in the 2,000.

Think about in a flu year we usually have about 200 children who die of the flu. Still, you get your child the flu shot because you don't want your child to die of the flu. So what we're talking about here is risk. You want to do everything you can so that your child's not one of the 2,000 who ends up hospitalized or God forbid dead.

Now let's take a look at the increases, at the differences over time. And so if we take a look, for the under 18, the hospitalization rates have gone up 33 percent since January, for folks in their late teens and 20s, they've gone up 18 percent, for folks in their 30s, they've gone up 34 percent. So hospitalization rates have gone way up. And it's probably a combination of a couple different things.

So, first of all, we know that delta's more contagious. Second of all, we're taking fewer precautions now.

SCIUTTO: Right.

COHEN: We're out and about much more than we used to be. So that's contributing to it as well.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Thank you. I know the numbers are so difficult, you know, to break down.

COHEN: Right.

SCIUTTO: And every day there's seemingly a new number and we want to put it in some context.

Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.

COHEN: Thanks.

HARLOW: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Joining us now to discuss, Dr. Richina Bicette. She's medical director at Baylor College of Medicine.

Good morning. Nice to have you back.

DR. RICHINA BICETTE, EMERGENCY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: Good morning.

SCIUTTO: Can you -- can you give us your view on the danger to children right now as well because I'm sure parents at home are watching that graph there and seeing the rates go up. That said, it's a big country of many millions of people. The relative number is still small, but it's going clearly in the wrong direction. How concerned should parents be about the severity of this risk to young people?

BICETTE: I definitely think parents should be concerned because we are seeing all-time record highs amongst children and adolescents. And this is on the brink of schools opening. There are still plenty of school districts across the United States that have yet to open, yet in Mississippi we're hearing that 20,000 students have already been quarantined from August 9th to the 13th because they've been exposed to COVID. In Florida, we know that 5,000 students and staff have tested positive and another 19,000 are quarantined because they've been exposed.

This is in the first week of school opening. It's only going to get worse from here. That's where the fear is.

HARLOW: If we could take a moment and talk about booster shots, I want people to hear what Dr. Francis Collins from the National Institutes of Health, the director there said about the waning protection of the vaccines, and then what the booster actually means for people. Here is how it was explained.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: It's sort of like you're in your car and you're driving for a long time and you check and you notice that the gas gauge is getting kind of low and it's like, OK, maybe it's time to do something about that. Look for a gas station. That's kind of where it is with people who got those first doses back in January. They're not in a crisis right now, but it's time to start making a plan. And that's all we're trying to do here.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: But will assuming everyone who has been vaccinated gets a booster, which I know is overly optimistic and Pollyannaish, but let's make -- take that assumption.

[09:35:04]

Unless a huge swath of America decides to get vaccinated that is not, will boosters make a dent in sort of the delta crisis we're in?

BICETTE: Well, we do know that vaccinated individuals are still potentially at risk of contracting COVID. And so I think with all of the talk about boosters, what we're trying to do is prevent a problem that has yet to really present itself.

This pandemic is going to continue to worsen. We don't want to see numbers of vaccinated individuals who are being hospitalized and who are dying from COVID increase. And in order to prevent that, let's go ahead and get boosters out into the population.

SCIUTTO: There is already a lot of disinformation out there about everything related to this pandemic, including this new information about the waning efficacy of vaccines. You have folks saying, well, if they're waning in efficacy, why get it? But -- so this is coming from the very high base, of course, very high efficacy down to lower, but still significant efficacy. Explain to people now, particularly those who are not vaccinated, why it's still smart for them to get vaccinated and perhaps prepare down the line for a booster.

BICETTE: So when you look at hospitalization numbers across the United States, about 97 to 99 percent of people who are hospitalized are unvaccinated. 99.5 percent of people who are currently dying from COVID are unvaccinated. That by itself is reason enough for you to get your vaccine because you're going to be protected from those severe outcomes.

The COVID vaccine is not the first vaccine to require a booster shot. We get the flu vaccine every single year because the flu mutates and changes. Childhood vaccine, your MMR vaccine, you require boosters. Hepatitis vaccines you require boosters once you check your antibody titrs (ph). This is not a novel concept, it's the nature of immunology and the nature of viruses.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Dr. Bicette, thank you. We'll have you back soon.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BICETTE: Thank you.

HARLOW: Your service mattered. That is the message from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to all Americans who served and lost their lives in Afghanistan, to their families, their loved ones left behind. But for a man whose father died while serving in Afghanistan, the chaotic withdrawal has left him angry and sad and wondering, what was it all for? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:05]

HARLOW: The chaos unfolding in Afghanistan is forcing some Afghan war veterans and gold star families to question. So, was it all worth it? Now as the Taliban claimed victory over the United States, the nation's top general is assuring veterans and the families who lost their loved ones that their sacrifices were not in vain.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: For more than 20 years we have prevented an attack on the U.S. homeland. Two thousand four hundred and 48 lost our lives. Twenty thousand seven hundred and twenty-two were wounded in action and many others suffered the unseen wounds of war. To each of them, I want you to know personally that your service mattered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And it matters hearing that from him in this moment.

My next guest has just written a piece for cnn.com saying, my dad died serving in Afghanistan. I'm sad and angry. And you should be, too. Army Sergeant First Class James Ochsner was killed by a roadside bomb in Afghanistan during his fourth tour of duty there. That was 2005. Just look at those pictures. His son Nick joins me now. He is also the chief investigative reporter at WBTV in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Nick, thank you. And I am so sorry.

NICK OCHSNER, DAD KILLED BY ROADSIDE BOMB IN AFGHANISTAN: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: Of course. We were talking in the break and, you know, I told you I know how bad it is to have a parent die, have your father die, and it just sucks and there's no other way to put it, but I'm so sorry and I'm sorry you're having to really relive it now in this -- in this moment.

What do you want to tell us about your dad?

OCHSNER: Yes. Well, I would prefer to not have to be talking about this.

HARLOW: Yes.

OCHSNER: It's been a really tough few days, especially watching on Sunday the fall of Kabul.

But I think it's important that the American people know the perspective, one, know about my dad, Sergeant First Class James Ochsner, but, two, know that prospective of families like mine that are reliving this through a lens that, you know, too many people, thousands of families, are having to look at it, but like -- but a small group of us.

And so as I write in the -- in the essay, you know, my dad fought in Afghanistan and loved the Afghan people and believed in the mission of what he was doing, and was willing to go sacrifice his life, both to keep America safe, but also in pursuit of helping the Afghan people have a better life and a more stable life and a more stable country. And it was a mission that he thought was noble and a mission he believed in. And so that's part of what I want to share with everybody as we consider the events unfolding right now.

HARLOW: Yes. And I think there's no question he made their lives better and helped them while he was there, right?

[09:45:03]

I mean that is nothing that can be taken away, even by these tragic events as they have unfolded.

But I think, Nick, having read your essay over and over again in the last few days, I mean I think there's also a reason you wrote it, right? You're a reporter, you're a journalist, you know the power of word. Can you tell me why you wrote it and maybe was it for those in power, too, and the administration who can maybe make some changes right now?

OCHSNER: Yes. I -- yes, to be quite honest, I wrote it to sort out my own personal feelings. About a month ago we were having this debate, should we withdraw totally from Afghanistan, should we stay in Afghanistan.

And those are really tough questions because I think we knew the answer of leaving would look something like, but maybe not totally like what is going on and what we're seeing play out. But I decided to share it publicly because I think, one, the voice of gold star families and gold star kids like me and gold star mothers and fathers and wives are sorely missing from this debate over the last three or four months.

But also because I know that my dad would be looking at what's happening with the brave Afghans who helped the American people, the American soldiers, American diplomats at the U.S. embassy, there are tens of thousands of Afghans in danger right now because they or their families risked their lives helping protect us and defend us and sacrificing for us. And at this very moment, their lives are now in danger because the United States has not fulfilled our promise to help return the favor to them when they need it the most.

HARLOW: There is just such a remarkable thing, Nick, that has happened from all of this. Not only the service that your father gave and the ultimate sacrifice for all of us, but that your wife is now an Army Ranger, right, because of --

OCHSNER: (INAUDIBLE) a Ranger, but, yes.

HARLOW: Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I got it wrong. I was trying so hard to get it right.

But what I was reading about her is that she enlisted -- look at her there in the pictures. That's Sarah Blake Morgan (ph). She just enlisted in the U.S. Army at age 32. And she says it was inspired by your dad's sacrifice because he gave her belief in this country and a desire to serve. I mean, what is that like to watch?

OCHSNER: It's incredible. You know, to see her be brave enough to take on this, especially, you know, giving up her comfortable life, she was a journalist as well, and going through basic training, she's off to officer candidate school soon.

But, you know, she wears -- now she's at Fort Bragg this past weekend for her first Army Reserve drill and she wears a bracelet with my dad's name on it now when she's in uniform. And knowing that she's honoring his sacrifice and carrying on the tradition of service that's so important to my family and to her family and to Sarah and knowing that she's willing now to go sacrifice her personal security and her safety in service for our country, it's awe inspiring. And I could not be more proud.

HARLOW: It said -- if we can pull it up next to you, Nick, in the control room, the picture again of the bracelet. I think it said Jimbo. Can you just leave us with a little explanation there?

OCHSNER: Yes, the Afghans, he was stationed at the same spot four times in Afghanistan, along the Afghan/Pakistan border in the Luar (ph) Valley. And he loved the people. Part of his job was going and meeting with the Afghans, war lords, elders and so frequently they referred to him as Jimbo Khan (ph). His nickname is Jimbo. Jimbo Khan (ph) as a sign of respect. And they loved him just as much as he loved them.

HARLOW: What a gift he was to them and to the world and clearly to you.

Thank you, Nick, for writing this, for sharing it. I know it's hard and scary. And I have no doubt that they know what we're doing even if they're not here and he knows what you're doing and he's proud.

So, Nick Ochsner, thank you.

OCHSNER: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:53:41]

HARLOW: The Calder Fire in California is now burning more than 60,000 acres, forcing another 10,000 people to evacuate.

SCIUTTO: CNN correspondent Lucy Kafanov joins us now live from El Dorado County, California.

I mean 24 times -- growing 24 times in size in just the last two days. I mean that is a truly wildfire.

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's explosive in terms of its growth, Jim. And that is because it has singed over 65,000 acres now and so quickly. You have these bone dry conditions. You have hilly terrain, which makes it difficult to get heavy equipment like bulldozers there to cut containment lines.

And then, of course, you have the population. We were driving through the fire line yesterday when we came across this destroyed ranch. And that's when we met Chris Kingsley. He's owned 164 acres in that area for 38 years. He had a sawmill, several barns for horses, his family home, absolutely everything was destroyed. We ran into him minutes after he returned to the property to take a look at what was left, and there was nothing.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS KINGSLEY, HOME AND BUSINESS DESTROYED IN FIRE: Broke. I'm broke. I mean with my sawmill, I could have made enough money to rebuild. And now, without that, I don't know what I'm going to do.

KAFANOV: What's going through your mind right now as you look at the remains of your house?

[09:55:00]

KINGSLEY: Trying to not get sick.

KAFANOV: Yes.

KINGSLEY: Literally.

KAFANOV: Yes.

KINGSLEY: My whole life. You know, when you've spent 38 years and trying to restore the ranch, because like -- like I mentioned, it was a historic ranch and the old house built in 1869 was over there. I don't know what else do you say?

KAFANOV: OH, I'm sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: The tragic thing is he had no fire insurance. His ranch was in too rural of an area. That is just one story of many. The fire crews are trying to prevent more stories like this from taking place. But with these unpredictable conditions, it's an uphill battle.

Jim. Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Just a heartbreaking story, you know, as these things happen, there are so many personal stories like that.

HARLOW: So much history. Lucy, thank you for being there and for your compassionate reporting.

Well soon we're going to hear from the Pentagon. They are going to hold a press briefing in just a few minutes on the withdrawal from Afghanistan. You'll see it live here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)