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U.S. Embassy Warns Americans and Allies of Safety; Chaotic Scene at Kabul Airport; Douglas London is Interviewed about the Catastrophe in Afghanistan; States Warn of ICU Bed Shortage; Dr. Jenna Carpenter is Interviewed about COVID Cases. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 20, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:12]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Friday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

More evacuations, but with that more violence and chaos. The White House announcing approximately 3,000 people, nearly 350 of them U.S. citizens, were flown out of Kabul's airport in the last 24 hours. But outside of the airport, thousands of Afghans still desperate for a way out. Taliban militants firing shots to keep the crowds at bay.

SCIUTTO: As just gut wrenching scenes like this emerge, video showing an infant being passed over barbed wire, handed over the Kabul Airport wall to U.S. troops. As these desperate scenes play out, we are learning new details about an urgent, classified cable that U.S. diplomats sent to the State Department in mid-July warning that swift action needed to be taken or they feared possible catastrophe.

This morning, President Biden will be briefed on the latest from Afghanistan and he will then address the nation a few hours from now. We will have more from CNN's Clarissa Ward on the ground at Kabul Airport in just a few moments.

HARLOW: Right now the U.S. embassy is warning Americans and allies trying to get to the Kabul Airport to escape Afghanistan that their safety, just in terms of getting to the airport, is uncertain.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Officials say the Kabul Airport, quote, may open or close without notice.

CNN's Kylie Atwood is live this morning from the State Department.

Kylie, it's clearly a very fluid situation there. U.S. diplomats, the military, reacting to the latest on the ground. What do we know?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, kind of a shocking but perhaps blunt admission from the U.S. embassy in Kabul this morning. A security alert to all Americans in Afghanistan, telling them, as they have told them in recent days, that they can't ensure safe access, safe travel to the airport. But then the new thing that they are telling the Americans this

morning, as you said, Jim, is that the gates into the airport may close or open unexpectedly because of the crowds outside the airport, because of the security situation. But they're also telling them, and I want to read you this line, please use your best judgment and attempt to enter the airport at any gate that is open. Essentially telling Americans, listen, we're trying to get you on flights, we're trying to evacuate you, but it is up to you to use your best judgment to get into the airport. A pretty stunning admission.

And we should note that the State Department has still said they don't have the capacity to do anything beyond the footprint of the airport right now. The military has said that that is where their mission is focused right now. But we should note that that is a policy decision based on the Biden administration not wanting to go beyond that footprint right now.

So this is something to watch very closely, particularly as the situation could put more Americans in jeopardy.

Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: Kylie Atwood reporting at the State Department. Thank you very much for your updates on this throughout.

Clarissa Ward is in Kabul, again, on the ground with her team and filed this report on what the situation has been like for them inside the airport.

Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I have to say, this is the least chaotic part of the whole process. This is the final furlong when you're almost about to get on one of those military aircraft carriers. And you can probably see behind me, I'm trying not to move too much because our signal is pretty weak, there are a lot of people who have been standing out in that scorching sun for many hours. And as I said, this is the last stage.

It begins at the front barriers with the Taliban. We went through one gate this morning. A crush of people pushing, shoving, screaming, children crying out. I can honestly say it was one of the more harrowing things I have experienced.

Then for the lucky people who do get in, you go to the next phase where you sit and wait for several hours. I have talked to people here who have been waiting for two days. Two days. And it's such a bottleneck trying to get all these people processed and all these people through. And the problem is that at these bottlenecks, you have these very dangerous situations where you have a crush of people and crowds.

And one soldier was telling me that yesterday two women actually threw their babies over the fence trying to throw them to the U.S. soldiers. One soldier actually caught the baby in his arms. He went and found the woman afterwards to give the baby back.

But, honestly, what kind of desperation does a parent have to be in where that's your best hope is to try to throw your baby to a soldier to get them out, to save them from being crushed, to give them a better future? And I think there is nothing that illustrates better the panic, the chaos, the fear than that description.

[09:05:08]

I talked to another British soldier who started talking to me and he just started weeping. He said, I've done two tours in Helmand, but the PTSD I will have from this last week is worse than either of those deployments because people are getting trampled.

You have to remember, there's a huge amount of people, thousands and thousands and thousands, if not tens of thousands. There are multiple gates at entrances. You have the Americans, you have the Brits, you have the Italians, you have the French, you have the Hungarians. I mean we have seen pretty much ever nationality you can conceive of who has or had a presence here in Afghanistan.

And so you have a lot of (INAUDIBLE). And you have the State Department and you have the Marines and you have special forces. And it is very hectic and very difficult. You know, you see people looking for vehicles, traffic jams building up inside the base, people trying to squeeze around blast walls. There just isn't a coherent mechanism yet in place to process these people.

You know, even something simple like tents. Please, get these people some tents, OK. I'm OK. But the women with their babies, they can't be standing out in the 95-degree sun for eight hours. They just can't. They're getting water. They're handing out MREs, military meals ready to eat, and they're doing the best they can. But it is still a really, really, really tough situation here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Tough to say the least. Clarissa Ward there at the Kabul Airport. Thanks very much.

We also have what's really a heartbreaking update today about one of those first chaotic flights out of Kabul Airport. You may remember the images of a crowd of people trying to cling to the side, to the landing gear of this C-17 on Monday as it taxied down the runway. Later, sadly, we saw a video of at least two bodies falling from the plane as it was up in the air.

HARLOW: And what we've now learned is that one of the people who fell to their death was Zaki Anwari. You see his picture there. He's only 17 years old and was a member of Afghanistan's National Youth Soccer Team. A spokesman for the Afghan Sports Federation told "The New York Times" that the young man had come from a low income family in Kabul and saw the arrival of the Taliban, the takeover of the Taliban, as the end of his dreams.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. I mean if that's not an indictment of the future of that country, a 17-year-old choosing that over life in effect.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Well, this morning, CNN is learning U.S. diplomats warned last month that urgent action was needed in Afghanistan. The diplomats said in a classified cable they believe the country could rapidly deteriorate and they feared a catastrophe when U.S. troops pulled out at the end of August.

Joining me now to discuss this, Douglas London, he's a retired senior CIA operations officer in the region. He's also author of the book "The Recruiter: Spying and the Lost Art of American Intelligence."

Douglas, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

DOUGLAS LONDON, RETIRED SENIOR CIA OPERATIONS OFFICER: Thanks for having me on the program.

SCIUTTO: So you've heard, as you often do, when situations go in a bad direction that, well, the intelligence was wrong. We didn't know how bad it was going to get and how quickly. Was this actually, in your view, an intelligence failure?

LONDON: No, not an intelligence failure. And I think we can point to 9/11 as either when we're not aware of the events that are likely to unfold or we don't do our job making sure people are aware of that.

General Milley's comments about he didn't see any estimates about the country collapsing in 11 days makes for a -- like a nice sound bite, but it's rather disingenuous. The estimates actually going back for some years have noted that under the conditions we have seen over the past few months -- not weeks -- would lead to a rapid collapse of the government and its fighting forces, which could occur in weeks or, in fact, days. And that clock was hardly 11 days.

The president was committed to pulling out the troops. The message was clear. When we began to close our bases, our military and our (INAUDIBLE) platforms beyond Kabul, between May and July 1st. July 1st was when Bagram closed. That was the last platform from which the military or the intelligence professionals could operate outside. And we saw the developing events and it was clear to us that that timeline of 11 days, well, I'm sorry, really -- it really started at least in May, if not before. And they had the opportunity to take the moves they needed to.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, though. Would it have been different at any other time? You heard the president's comments yesterday that had the U.S. pulled out 15 years ago or 15 years from now, you'd have a similar outcome. In effect that regardless of when the U.S. withdrew its troops, you would have a crisis in confidence like this and a collapse like this.

[09:10:02]

Do you believe that that's true or would there have been a -- could there have been a better way? LONDON: I think that's a fair point. I think the strategies that the

United States was pursuing in terms of the political military intelligence (INAUDIBLE) were not going to make a change. We could sort of maintain the status quo and we could have, had we maintained a presence, but we would have also had to change our approach to Afghanistan. And perhaps step away from this idea of the American blueprint of a centralized government and a nationally integrated army.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

LONDON: OK. Let's talk now about what follows. Is Afghanistan likely, in your view, to become a terror haven once again as it was before 9/11? We know that al Qaeda militants were fighting alongside the Taliban in some of these battles around the country. Is the Taliban going to give al Qaeda free reign to plots and plan attacks on the U.S. from inside?

LONDON: You know, Defense Secretary Austin fielded this question but a couple days ago. He referred to an estimate, which is true, where the intelligence community projected, upon the withdrawal of the United States military from Afghanistan, we could see al Qaeda reconstitute within one to two years and pose a homeland threat. That estimate, however, was based on the continued presence of an Afghan government which would allow us partners on the ground to continue collecting intelligence and acting on al Qaeda.

The reality is, the Taliban and al Qaeda are interwoven. They're integrated. A lot of that being through marriage (ph). Those bonds are sustaining and they're deep. And the Taliban is going to allow al Qaeda and other groups to operate from there. And their idea of the agreement they signed says, well, we're committed to preventing them from conducting terrorist operations. We're not required to expel them from the country.

Al Qaeda is resurging. Bagram saw the release of a number of al Qaeda and al Qaeda (INAUDIBLE) high-value prisoners. There are a number of well experienced al Qaeda operatives in Iran who are most likely making their way, and I do see that threat accelerating much faster than we could have imagined.

SCIUTTO: The U.S. plan is to keep a lid on al Qaeda from outside the country. Fly counter terror missions from places such as Qatar and Kuwait, do UAV missions, drone missions from outside the country as well. But the CIA director has acknowledged, you know, you just don't have the same capability. I wonder, in your view, can the U.S. keep a lid on al Qaeda from outside?

LONDON: The United States is going to collect intelligence but it's different and expectations have to be managed. All the drones and technology in the world require intelligence operatives on the ground to be (INAUDIBLE) information on where to look, for whom to look and what's going on. So without the United States case officers on the ground, those who handle and recruit the agents, we're going to be doing it remotely, by proxy, indirectly, depending on agents to act like our handlers, operating people from the ground. But that's going to impede the timeliness of the intelligence, certainly the quality of the intelligence, much harder to test and validate that information when you don't have an American handler in the process.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Well, it's a sobering assessment. Let's be honest.

Douglas London, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

LONDON: Thanks for having me on, Jim.

HARLOW: Still to come, a COVID crisis in the nation's ICUs. Reports of people dying as they are just waiting for an open ICU bed. A doctor in the midst of this in Alabama will join us to talk about what it is like firsthand.

SCIUTTO: Plus, San Francisco is now requiring proof of vaccination for anyone 12 and up to do a whole host of indoor activities, such as going to restaurants. We're going to take you there live.

And Texas Democrats return to the statehouse after more than a month long standoff. And civil warrants issued for their arrest. What that means for the Republican-led voting restrictions bill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:10]

SCIUTTO: The delta variant is now fueling a shortage of intensive care beds in states specifically with low vaccination rates. Experts in Austin, Texas, saying hospitals there are, quote, at a breaking point due to a surge in COVID patients.

HARLOW: A doctor in Oregon is now asking the public for help, grace and kindness, their words, after a patient died waiting, just waiting to get into the ICU.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Our Tom Foreman is with us.

Tom, good morning.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

HARLOW: It is important to note the crisis, for sure. It's also notable that it's not everywhere, right?

FOREMAN: Right.

HARLOW: Talk about where it is happening and why.

FOREMAN: It is happening most where you would expect it to happen most, where vaccination rates are low and where politically leaders are resisting all efforts to mask and take basic common sense measures to protect the population. Look at the ICU bed utilization by state. And everywhere that it's

red, they're above at least 70 percent. And when you get to the dark red ones down here, six states, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, and Texas, that is right in a cluster down here of the states that as a group have the lowest vaccination rates. Alabama and Mississippi here, only about a third of the people there have been vaccinated.

When you move past that and look at the COVID relationship to this, this is where they are being used for COVID purposes the most. Everywhere that's red here is at least above a quarter of those beds being used just for COVID. Remember, that's all the heart patients, all the people with breathing problems, all the people that have been involved in accidents, brain trauma, all of that, they are there, but 25 percent is just COVID. And the dark red states, that's more than 50 percent COVID. Again, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, tremendous pressure there just because of COVID.

[09:20:01]

And if you look at the raw numbers, it looks terrible. Look at this, 468 beds available in all of Florida, zero in Alabama, 60 in Mississippi, 17 in Arkansas, 175 in Louisiana, Oklahoma, 111, Texas, 417.

Florida and Texas alone, about 50 million people, something like that. So for all the people in all these states, add it up, you get somewhere around 1,100, 1,200 beds available for everyone there. That's the problem. It keeps running away. There's still a political push against it. And yet if you're driving through that state and you have a car crash, you'd better hope you're near the line to somewhere else because there's not much to help you out.

HARLOW: Right. Right, because it's not just ICU beds for COVID patients, it's for any emergency that might happen.

FOREMAN: Yes, for everything. Exactly.

HARLOW: Tom, thank you for literally mapping it out for us. We appreciate it.

Well, an ICU doctor in the state of Alabama, where you just saw Tom show there is zero open ICU beds, shared this message on FaceBook. Quote, I have held more hands this week and had a FaceTime call with families, if possible, before I put these patients on the ventilator because I know it will be the last time see or speak to their loved ones. I have held onto family members who have just lost their very young spouse and heard those screams and cries. I have come home and literally sobbed in the shower because I am emotionally worn out.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. It seems like from the very beginning of the pandemic.

Joining us now to discuss is the doctor who wrote that piece, Dr. Jenna Carpenter. She's a pulmonary critical care physician at Marshal Medical South. Doctor, so good to have you on this morning because we know you're busy where you are.

You told al.com that all of the ICU beds at your hospital are completely full. I wonder, sadly, the politics have always clouded public health information from the beginning here. Are you finding where you are that this crisis is getting the message through, right, that vaccination works, that people have to take simple public health measures or not?

DR. JENNA CARPENTER, PULMONARY CRITICAL CARE PHYSICIAN, MARSHALL MEDICAL SOUTH: Absolutely, Jim. You know, as I said, it's just been a devastating week here for us locally. And I know good and well that other facilities across the nation are experiencing the same thing that we are. And I just felt in my heart it was time to just get that personal message out to just try to do what we can to encourage vaccination. It's just -- it's just been devastating with the age of patients that we are seeing in the ICU now. Much different from December and January. These patients are in their early 40s. You know, our average ICU census this week alone has been anywhere from the age of 47 to early 50s. Those numbers are quite disturbing. And these patients are not doing well. We have had, in the past week, at least one death a day. It's tragic.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

HARLOW: Well, so, what can -- what can you do? I mean when we saw that map with the number zero in terms of ICU beds in Alabama, what can you do? Can hospitals, makeshift hospitals like we saw at the beginning of the pandemic, do you need more federal resources, or is this just what's going to be?

CARPENTER: You know, unfortunately this is -- this is just what we are seeing right now because the medical system here, we are just completely inundated and overwhelmed. Where I work, we have two very small community hospitals. Unfortunately we very easily run out of room. We have already opened up our post anesthesia care unit where the surgery patients normally go as a non-COVID ICU because our COVID ICUs are completely full. So we are having to shift patients around, make room the best that we can.

And you know, like everyone else, we are short staffed. The medical staff is working extra. They're working overtime. I think the big message here is we just got to get out to encourage patients to get vaccinated. That -- at this point, that is the only thing that we have that we know that consistently works. And I think that's the big take- home message we're trying to get out here.

SCIUTTO: Yes. So I want to give you a chance here to speak to folks listening, watching right now to convince them if they haven't been vaccinated because part of the message, of course, right, is it not only protects yourself, but it protects others. And you note, for instance, you know, you're worried about your children, right, because your two young sons are too young to be vaccinated. So speak now to folks who have decided or still hesitating to get the vaccine. What would you tell them? CARPENTER: You know, from the bottom of my heart, we, as the medical

community, are completely exhausted. We are trying to care for you the best that we can. It is a tragedy. Now the young age of patients we are seeing that we are losing. And, you know, the numbers I really want to focus on, Jim and Poppy, are those percentages that we're seeing because this is telling us vaccination works.

[09:25:05]

Between 86 percent of patients right now that are in the hospital, COVID patients, rather, are unvaccinated. At least 20 percent of our inpatients are on ventilators right now. This can be avoided. And I don't, you know, want to have to look another family member in the eye or hold another hand when this could have been prevented.

So I just feel like sharing that personal aspect of it, I hope, will maybe reach some folks that have been undecided or have not, you know, made that decision and just that personal plea.

HARLOW: Yes.

CARPENTER: And that's part of what just prompted me to put that post on FaceBook. That was really just me sharing my heart and it's really gone beyond what I ever expected or could have imagined. And it's really resonated with folks. It's already making a difference. I can tell you, I've had numerous people personally reach out to me and inquire about vaccination.

HARLOW: Good.

CARPENTER: Locally, we are starting to see vaccination rates pick up.

HARLOW: Good.

CARPENTER: So it's just, I think, trying to get to people to connect with the personal aspect of what we, as the critical care physicians who are in there every day, what we are personally seeing and sharing our story.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, we hear it in your voice, right, the sincere struggle that you're going through. We hope the message gets through. We really do. And we just want to express our appreciation for all the work you're doing there.

CARPENTER: Thank you so much.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Jenna Carpenter, thanks so much.

CARPENTER: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, officials are working to figure out charges against the man behind a bomb scare near the U.S. Capitol yesterday. We're going to have new details on that suspect, what he said, what he was FaceBook Live-ing while he stood out there yesterday.

More to come. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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