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White House Says, U.S. Evacuated 3,000 People from Kabul in Past 24 Hours; Doctor Says, Atlanta Hospitals See Tsunami of Patients amid COVID Surge; Women in Afghanistan Gripped by Fear over Taliban Takeover. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 20, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: Good morning, everyone. I'm so glad you're with us. It's the top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

The U.S. is stepping up the pace of evacuation from Kabul as thousands of Afghans continue to hold out hope that they will be among those who make it out country. The White House announced that approximately 3,000 people, nearly 350 of them U.S. citizens, were flown out of Kabul in just the past 24 hours. You can see some of them there.

But outside of the airport, still scenes of disarray, at times, Taliban militants fired shots into the air to control the crowds, many of them families. Here is a sign of their desperation, a child, an infant, being passed over barbed wire, over the wall of the Kabul airport to U.S. forces.

HARLOW: This morning, we're learning details about a classified cable U.S. diplomat sent to the State Department last month warning about the catastrophe that is actually unfolding right now in Afghanistan. We do expect to hear from President Biden a few hours from now when he addresses the nation about what is happening in Afghanistan.

We're covering all of this from all angles, from the White House to the Pentagon, to the State Department. Let's begin at the Pentagon with our Barbara Starr.

Barbara, what is the latest you can share with us on the evacuations, the pace of them and any further commitments from the United States in terms of how long it will stay?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are expecting an update here at the Pentagon later this afternoon after President Biden talks. All of those questions are going to be asked, whether there are answers, I think, is a completely different proposition. Right now, the Pentagon is holding fast to the president's policy that everyone will be out by August 31st unless they can talk to -- they need to stay, they talk to the Taliban, and they feel that they can relatively safely stay.

But none of that is even remotely settled yet. It is still very much an August 31st deadline for all U.S. forces out and for them to get as many people out as they can. That is likely to leave a lot of people behind at this point because, as you say, 3,000 people overnight evacuated, just over 300 Americans.

The situation outside of that fence line at the airport, as we see from videos that continue to emerge, that the world sees, is one of chaos and violence. A lot of reports that the Taliban still potentially engaging in violence against the Afghans who are waiting there, trying to pass through checkpoints, trying to get into the airport and get flights out. It remains a very difficult proposition and that is likely to continue. Jim, Poppy?

SCIUTTO: Kylie Atwood, she is at the State Department this morning. So, what does the U.S. embassy tell Americans who are still in the country, about what they should do?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, what State Department told Americans just this morning in a new security alert is, first of all, once again, reiterating that they could not assure them safe passage to the airport, that things going to the airport aren't necessarily going to be safe. State Department isn't providing any support for them during that journey. But once then get to the airport, they're also telling Americans that there are gates that are opening and closing without any advanced notice. And so these Americans, if they were assigned to go to one gate, the State Department is now telling them, we know we told you that, but you should try to get into any gate that you can, telling them to use their best judgment.

This may be an admission of the reality on ground bus it is frankly surprising to hear this coming from the State Department to Americans who are facing this incredibly dangerous security situation trying to get into the airport. And we'll continue to watch the situation, because as concerns mount about not what is only happening with these Afghans trying to get into the airport but with these Americans, we may or may not see the Biden administration change their approach here, which is that they're focused on the airport, they're not focused on anything beyond the actual grounds of the airport.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: So, Kylie, I was really struck when your reporting crossed late yesterday about this cable, this warning from diplomats month ago to the State Department that basically, right, what we're seeing unfold on the ground now, could very likely happen. What can you tell us about it?

ATWOOD: Yes. This is a group of diplomats at the embassy in Kabul writing to the secretary of state in a classified dissent memo urging the Department to take more urgent action with regard to processing and evacuating these Afghans who had worked the alongside U.S. troops and U.S. diplomats.

Now, what this memo was doing was essentially saying, our voices haven't been heard. We've been saying that there needs to be action taken. So we're writing, therefore, to the secretary of state. Dissent memos are only basically a last case scenario option for these diplomats.

[10:05:00]

Now, we should note that one of the things I'm told that they suggested is that the department put together biometric data -- compile the biometric data for these Afghans so that as this processing is happening, it can go more swiftly so that they can get them out of the country on these evacuation flights more quickly.

Now, the deputy national security adviser, John Finer, spoke with Wolf Blitzer about this cable yesterday. He acknowledged that they did actually see the situation unfolding. They thought that the Afghan government was going to fall but he also said, listen, the whole of U.S. government thought that that was a possibility. It happened much more quickly than even the diplomats who wrote this cable saw that it was going to happen.

We should note, the State Department says that they read all of these cables. The secretary of state reads and looks at every response to these dissent memos.

HARLOW: Important reporting. Kylie Atwood at the State Department and yours, always as well, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you very much.

Well, this hour, President Biden will meet with the national security team to be briefed on intelligence, security and diplomatic updates on this ongoing crisis in Afghanistan. This afternoon, Biden has said to address the nation. He'll speak about the evacuation efforts particularly of American citizens and our Afghan allies.

SCIUTTO: CNN's John Harwood, he is live at the White House. John, been some difficult messaging from the White House. I mean, you can't sugar coat what we've been seeing out of Afghanistan, but I'm sure the White House is aware of that. Will President Biden have something different to say today?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think what he's going to do is focus, Jim, on the one thing that can salvage this situation from his point of view, from the administration's point of view, and that is try to describe the efforts that the U.S. military is making at the Kabul airport and diplomatically throughout the country in talks with the Taliban to bring some order to the situation and bring an efficiency and a volume to the evacuations of both American citizens and our Afghan allies.

There are tens of thousands of people, the president has said up to 65,000 Afghan allies and their families. We've seen estimates of 10,000 to 15,000 Americans still in the country who they want to get out. But Kate Bedingfield, the White House communication director, acknowledged to our colleague, Brianna Keilar, this morning that the United States doesn't have a firm handle on exactly how many Americans there are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Kate, how many Americans still in Afghanistan? Do you guys have a number?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: We don't have a precise number and there is a reason for that. It is because the number of people of Americans in Afghanistan includes people who may have left the country, who may have left over the course of the last six months. So what we're doing is working to identify how many Americans are there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: So, trying to bring some clarity to the fog of war is one of the challenges that President Biden and his administration team is facing. We're going to hear him lay out those steps. It is encouraging from the White House point of view that they got 3,000 people out yesterday, still not reached the 5,000 to 9,000 per day of airlift capacity that the administration is shooting for. The president said he would go beyond August 31st at least for those American citizens. So, huge challenges ahead, they're just now beginning to try to get their arms around it and the president is going to talk about that today.

SCIUTTO: John Harwood, we'll be certainly listening.

Joining me now to discuss all of this is James Clapper. He's former Director of the National Intelligence. Director Clapper, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Thanks, Jim, for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, as you know, often in situations like this, you'll hear policymakers say, well, the intel we got was wrong. I always remind people intelligence is a tool, it is not a policy, it is not a policy decision. But it is a fair question, did the intel community get this wrong? Did it underestimate how quickly the Taliban would take over?

CLAPPER: Well, Jim, there is an old saying in intelligence about the difference between mysteries and secrets. Secrets are noble facts and mysteries are imponderable. The intelligence community for years led by CIA has been very weary of the viability of the Afghan government and the competence and willingness to fight of the Afghan military. And certainly this goes back to the Obama administration when President Biden was vice president. So he's well aware of this.

So if you look at this historically, there has always been concern about how strong the government is. Now, did the intelligence community call it right and say in 11 days, the government is going to collapse? Certainly not. But certainly there was a general awareness of the problematic nature of a government and the military in Afghanistan.

SCIUTTO: So you're saying the intelligence agencies have been warning, in effect, this president and previous presidents for years about the fragility of the Afghan government.

[10:10:00] Do you then hold President Biden responsible for, in effect, ignoring those warnings?

CLAPPER: Well, I don't know that he ignored it. I think he is well aware of this background. I know for a fact that he was aware of it, was briefed on it consistently when he was vice president. So I don't know about ignoring it. As much as -- but I do think he's certainly aware of the situation, and that actually pertained in Afghanistan.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Let's look ahead now. You say it is only a matter of time now before Al Qaeda reconstitutes in Afghanistan. Is it likely that Afghanistan becomes a terror haven, much like it was before the U.S. invasion, before 9/11?

CLAPPER: Absolutely. I think it is a question of time and it is going to be sooner rather than later. Because I think a lot of terrorists who fled Afghanistan now will return.

SCIUTTO: Wow. President Biden's answer to that is that -- and he was asked about this, is that well Afghanistan is not a primary threat to the U.S. and that Al Qaeda and other groups are more of a threat outside of Afghanistan than in it. Is that assessment, is that explanation wrong?

CLAPPER: Well, that is true and that is the situation now. And it is precisely because we saw to it that it was difficult for terrorists to operate from Afghanistan.

SCIUTTO: So, now they're going to have another home base, in effect? I mean, is that your view?

CLAPPER: I'm quite confident of it. I think it is going to be very difficult from the intelligence community from over the horizon without on the ground presence to watch this. They're going to do their best, no question about it, but -- and, of course, key to all of this, by the way, Jim, is what will be the stance of Pakistan. Will they be -- will they cooperate with us?

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, they haven't. I mean, they were giving the Taliban a base and seem to be involved in this takeover. I just wonder, as someone who served intelligence for decades but for many years following 9/11, you worked there, you helped chase down the bad guys, in effect. How do you see this withdrawal? I mean, do you feel like it has made the hard work you and your colleagues did over the years to fight the terror threat there, that it is made it lost, in effect, that it's lot all of that work?

CLAPPER: Well, I think it was successful and now the challenge is going to be how to reconstitute. And the intelligence community, as it always does, will persist and figure out ways to try to compensate for what has to be regarded as a loss particularly from the lack of an on the ground presence.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. It is sobering to hear. Director James Clapper, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Still could come, with COVID cases surging and some hospitals particularly in unvaccinated states out of ICU beds, one doctor is warning things will get worse before they get better.

HARLOW: This as people are seen lying on the floor, look at that, of a monoclonal antibody treatment site in Florida. That is how desperate they are. We're going to have a live update from the southeast, the U.S.'s COVID epicenter at this point.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

HARLOW: Georgia's governor, Brian Kemp, has signed an executive order that permits businesses across the state to ignore local COVID-19 restrictions.

SCIUTTO: Yes, public health measures. That action comes as a doctor in Atlanta is warning hospitals there are seeing a tsunami of patients flooding emergency departments.

CNN's Ryan Young joins us now from Atlanta. Ryan, are doctors there seeing any signs of hope now of turning this around?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that is a really tough question here. I can honestly tell you it is getting tense here again because the conversation is centered around science, what science you believe at this point and the mask. You thought that debate was over. Let's not forget, like the rest of the country here, the school system here has actually started early. So you have kids returning to school, so you're seeing the bounce in cases with kids returning back to the classroom. And you can see parents really upset and arguing. I went to school board meeting yesterday where parents were fighting for whether or not kids should wear mask or not.

And let's not forget in the state of Georgia yesterday, 7,000-plus new cases when it comes to COVID-19. That has hospitals, like the one behind me, very worried about all the patients that are coming in. You're talking about close to 90 percent full when it comes to ICU beds. So they had a news conference yesterday really to beg for the public to get vaccinated because of all the numbers they're seeing. In fact, take a listen to the doctor's pleas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANDY JAFFAL, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, PIEDMONT ATLANTA HOSPITAL: We expect this latest COVID-19 surge driven by the highly infectious delta variant to significantly outpace the previous highest peak of COVID-19 infections. And it will get worse before it starts getting better. I watched a 28-year-old previously healthy unvaccinated patient die from COVID complications. And while we value every life, that one was tough, because it could have been prevented.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:20:02]

YOUNG: Guys, as you see the numbers on your screen at one hospital, but I can tell you, talking to doctors and nurses they say with some people being vaccinated, folks are returning to being back outside. And so everyone is sort of going back to restaurants, they are out eating again, but there are people who decided not to get the vaccine. But they're showing up here at the hospital. And that's been desperate toll for some of these nurses caught who have been in the cycle of the pandemic consistently.

You add the fact that some of these schools are seeing spikes in the COVID rate. You had a whole fifth grade class basically sent home in terms of the school system here because of the spike in COVID. You can understand why people are so upset and anxious about this. But I can honestly say at this point when you have the governor saying that he wants to make sure that businesses don't have to worry about these mask mandates, you already have certain cities like Atlanta and Savannah, basically saying, no, governor, we need this back in place. So this whole fight about what's going to happen is starting to happen while the nurses and doctors are in there are struggling to keep people alive.

SCIUTTO: They are. We heard from one last hour practically in tears over it. Ryan Young, thanks very much.

Take a look at this scene from a treatment center in Florida, which used monoclonal antibodies. It's one of the COVID treatments for severe cases. What you're seeing there is a woman lying on the floor in pain, waiting for the treatment there to help fight the virus. The man who took this photo says the woman was so sick, she could not stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIE LOPEZ, RECEIVED MONOCLONAL ANTIBODY TREATMENT IN FLORIDA: These people had nowhere to sit so they're sitting down but they were so sick. The picture really doesn't do it justice because there were moaning, they were in a lot of pain. It really drove the point home as to how serious these people are. I mean, for all I know, these people could have been dying right there and then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's bring in our Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. Elizabeth, I know Governor Ron DeSantis in Florida has been focused on getting more of these treatments into the state while at the same time working against other common sense health measures like masks. However, can you explain to people what this treatment does and how hard it is to access?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure. But, first, I'm going to begin by saying something super obvious. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, right? They should be wearing masks in Texas and in Atlanta where we just saw Ryan Young. That will prevent people from needing this treatment. So let's talk about this treatment. It's made by a company called Regeneron. It actually one of things that really can help COVID-19 patients. It is an antibody treatment. So you're basically just giving patients antibodies against COVID-19. It is authorized by the FDA to use for prevention in some cases and also for mild to moderate cases, in other words, people who are not in the hospital. That is very important. This is not a treatment, unfortunately, for that woman who was lying on floor. This might unfortunately not be helpful for her because she appears to be so sick. Also, it is given through an I.V. or through a shot. So this is not something a doctor can give a prescription for and you just go to CVS or Walgreens and get it.

The problem here is that it has been hard to get. The Biden administration said there is plenty of it. There is plenty of this drug around. But I've talked to people who have been trying for weeks and weeks and weeks to get it for sick relatives or for prevention and been unable to do it. And it is uneven. There is a place here in New York that does send nurses into people's homes to give Regeneron, other places, you can't get it at all.

SCIUTTO: Well, one thing that there is no shortage of, of course, is vaccines, as you say an ounce of prevention. But why? Do we know then why there is that disconnection, kind of big supply but hard to actually get it?

COHEN: Yes, it is such a mystery because, again, the Biden administration said that there is a big enough supply, and so that there is plenty of it. They used the word, plenty. Apparently, hospitals and medical centers have been trouble setting up places to give this I.V. or to give these shots. They say, I've been told, that this is tough because you're bringing in people who are infectious into places where there will be people who won't have COVID and that that's been difficult.

HARLOW: Can I just ask one follow-up, because I know it is really expensive.

SCIUTTO: Right.

HARLOW: But is it free? Is it government-subsidized? Can anyone, the uninsured, get it?

COHEN: Yes, it is free and government-subsidized. It was enormously expensive to develop, right? It was billions of dollars. But for a patient just to walk in, it is free.

HARLOW: Okay, good.

SCIUTTO: Understood.

HARLOW: Thank you, Elizabeth, very much.

The U.N. is urging the Taliban to stand by as promised of allowing women and girls to work, to go to school. Our next guest is a former CNN hero. She's helped thousands of Afghan girls get an education. She'll talk with us about what their future holds now. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

HARLOW: Welcome back. A former Afghan interpreter who worked with U.S. troops now says the Taliban have put up checkpoints outside of Kabul and in some cases starting to search people's homes and that he's terrified they may show up at his family's home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAAED, FORMER AFGHAN INTERPRETER WHO WORKED WITH U.S. TROOPS: I have three daughters and my two sisters. I just left them in a house and I told them that do not open the door for -- to anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That is just one example of how women are being forced out of the public eye in the days since the Taliban takeover.

[10:30:03]

And there is real concern that girls will no long be able educated beyond 12 years old.

My next guest --