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Pentagon Says It Made Clear to Taliban That Credentialed Afghans Need Passage; Pentagons Says Flights Were Paused to Alleviated Backlog in Qatar; Pentagon Says Evacuation Flights Have Resumed; Biden Says 169 Americans Rescued from Outside Airport Perimeter; Pentagons Says Will Aggressively Address Any Threat to The Mission. Aired 3:30- 4p ET

Aired August 20, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: As I've always said, prudent military planning is always continuously happening. As we are always forecasting for those type of things and planning for that.

Request, no, I can report that that hasn't yet and we have not received those.

MODERATOR: Yes, Tony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple questions I have, one, the communications with the Taliban. General, are these really these regular calls to the Taliban. It will allow deconfliction with the Syrian army -- you recall those, the Russian army. Deconfliction calls are regular, is there fairly good communication. Do they speak good English, do they understand what we're conveying?

MAJOR GENERAL HANK TAYLOR, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, JOINT STAFF, REGIONAL OPERATIONS: So, let's just talk about communication at echelon -- you know from higher to lower. I think those continue to have regular talks at the TPC at that level. You know, those things continue. You heard reported earlier in the week from Mr. Kirby, you know, about CENTCOM commander having communications. You know, CENTCOM has other military channels open that there's continuous at that level.

Then at the tactical level as we speak, you know, at the two-star level for those type of talks to happen. And these were the discussions that are happening to allow the further increase of information to the checkpoints of who needs to come through, what passes look like. You know, what are the right credentialling to get through, who needs to come.

And then you know at the lowest tactical level those other discussions, of course, those are always I would say probably a little harder, you know, just like -- but those are happening. I mean you know, making sure that what needs to be communicated is done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While I got you up to two, General Milley the other day talked about the After-Action process will continue. You know, now's not the time to talk about it, but any emerging theories on why the Afghan army collapsed? I mean you've been studying this for years. I mean is there any emerging theory, negotiated settlements? The Post talked about that earlier in the week.

Negotiated settlements that started last year at the village level and went to the district and province level. Any emerging theories?

TAYLOR: As the chairman said, After Action Reviews will happen at the appropriate time. And you know that guidance has been given and I would tell you at the operations level that focus is just like present laser focused on the current flights of the current mission right now, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can I ask one quick thing about --

MODERATOR: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- Taliban communications.

TAYLOR: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you get a sense as a strict command structure or is there's a sense there's various Taliban militias around the city that if you talk to one Taliban leader, these guys and these militias are going to say, well, I'm not going to listen. I'm going to do my own thing not letting people through. Can you talk about that and is it a problem, if so?

TAYLOR: I can't personally give you that level of detail you want but I do know, which I think is a positive is there's constant communication and it's being received, right. And we're seeing that things that we're asking for, passage and that is happening and getting better.

MODERATOR: Yes, Jim.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes, and so and or the time being up until now have all U.S. flights from the Kabul airport gone to Qatar. And a follow up. Now with going, planes going to Ramstein, how many other nations have offered to house Afghan evacuees and of those which are the most viable?

And lastly, are you looking for foreign facilities or is it exclusively American facilities like Ramstein in these foreign countries that you're looking at?

KIRBY: Qatar has been first way station for the evacuation flights that we have been conducting. You know because we have been doing it so consistently, that's one of the reasons we reached capacity there as quickly as we did.

We are grateful for other countries who have already agreed to accept addition numbers and we're working out the details of that with them now right now. I'll let those countries speak to their contributions and the State Department. But from a military perspective, we are in need of addition capacity and we're grateful that other countries are going to be helping us out with that capacity even if it is obviously on a temporary basis. But to help us with the throughput. Because we saw what happened today when that was the limiting factor. It wasn't aircraft on the ground. It wasn't people cued up and manifested. It was a destination. And so, it's good to have that freed up right now.

And as I think I answered, I think it was Jen's question. Obviously, some of -- a large portion of these individuals will come to the United States and we have got three military bases now set to receive them, Fort Lee, Fort McCoy and Fort Bliss. And the capacity at those three bases, we want to get up to 22,000 capacity. We're not there yet understandably.

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But we're building out to that. And as the secretary has made clear to the department, that if we need to offer additional U.S. installations here in the continental United States, we'll do that. But right now, we think we can get up to 22,000 in relatively short order here over the next coming days and weeks and we'll see where that goes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But aside from SIVs, so let's say the P-2s or other Afghans who are at risk, would you look at, say, foreign installations like maybe Aviano Air Base in Italy or other U.S. bases in continental Europe?

KIRBY: That's really a better question put to the State Department. That runs that part of the immigration process. That really wouldn't be our call to make.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Understood.

MODERATOR: Yes. Gordon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John, does the secretary currently possess the authorities he needs to call up more forces if needed or does he have to ask the White House first.

KIRBY: If he was going to make a major muscle movement in terms of additional forces of a significant size, he would absolutely want to have that conversation with the commander in chief.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, but I mean, given that the possibility that there are major muscle movements may occur in future, is that like pre-authority, in effect already been --

KIRBY: I'm not going to get into the planning process, Gordon. But we feel like with the additional capacity that we have that should there be a need to expand the mission in any way that we have what we require. And if that would change, if it would require change, you can bet that General McKenzie would flow up his recommendations, the secretary would review them as would the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and we'd go from there.

MODERATOR: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just following up on that. Have any more forces been put on regular deploy orders? KIRBY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then how long was the airfield closed for? Was it six hours, three hours, two hours?

TAYLOR: Just roughly 6 to 7 and a half hours. Right in there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then during that time, what was happening? Were you trying to get other countries to accept their refugees --- not refugees, the evacuees or what was happening?

TAYLOR: So first of all, on the airfield, processing kept continuing. So, when we say really what's happening, just flights were paused to -- I think like I said earlier -- to allow for backlog. To ensure reception of folks leaving Kabul. So, we were scheduling other flights and ensuring that we could get those flights out first as we brough other fights in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could I just one, since that pause had restarted, and that six to seven hours, how many flights have gone out since then?

TAYLOR: So, before I left, right before I came in here, we've had three leave Qatar and one left Kabul and one was getting ready the takeoff from Kabul.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, since the pause and the restart, one has left and potentially a second.

TAYLOR: That's right, potentially a second, yes.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Can I follow up on that, sir, very quickly?

TAYLOR: Yes, ma'am.

STARR: What was -- is it accurate and correct that the backlog at that time on the airfield of Afghans that couldn't board the planes because they couldn't land them anywhere. Was that backlog about 10,000 people? Or more?

TAYLOR: Less than. I don't have the exact number. Sorry about that but it was less than that.

STARR: Less than ten but in the thousands?

TAYLOR: Right.

STARR: So, at that time since they were there for 7 and a half, maybe as much as 8 hours, was there sufficient food, water and sanitation? Are they sleeping outside on the airfields? How does all that work?

TAYLOR: Reports are that they were sufficient but we are actively continuing to ensure it's sufficient for the future and continuing as we build out even more. STARR: Did they -- the people who were stuck there for so long, did

they have food, water and sanitation?

TAYLOR: Yes, and I have no report that they didn't.

STARR: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: General Taylor --

TAYLOR: Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- I just want to follow up on the 169 Americans who were rescued. Was that an incident where a commander took a decision and left the wire to help those people? Were weapons drawn or did that commander ask for higher up authority to leave the wire?

TAYLOR: Yes, I'm going to absolutely get more. But you know as you look about the gate and where they are, you already see that you know soldiers that are out there are starting now to increase that capability, that security around the gate. But the specific details of that I don't have but as Mr. Kirby said I'm going to get.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we're just trying to figure out because we have been told there have been no hostile interactions with the Taliban but if the Taliban were stopping those Americans from getting to the gate and a U.S. service member had to go to rescue them, was it a tense situation where weapons drawn?

TAYLOR: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That would count as --

TAYLOR: I understand the question.

MODERATOR: We'll have to get you more on that.

TAYLOR: Absolutely.

MODERATOR: Yes, Tom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me or Jim?

MODERATOR: Tom, Paul, I'm sorry. Paul. Masks are killing me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have two questions.

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One if you've restarted the flights from Kabul, the people we hear from inside Qatar say that the wait is three to five days to get out of there. It's so backed up. Where are you flying these people to? Are you already flying them to another country?

TAYLOR: Yes, so like we said earlier, that constraint of ensuring we have other flights scheduled and the timing of those. That's already being worked. And increasing our throughput throughout the entire chain requirements of flights.

And so, flights that left as Mr. Kirby said, some of those were going in and planned for the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you say flights that left Qatar to the U.S.?

TAYLOR: Yes, Qatar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you're saying right now you're at a pace where the incoming and outgoing from in Qatar is there's some equilibrium?

TAYLOR: Getting there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, are they flying to other countries yet, other ISBs?

TAYLOR: I don't have that report, those flight plans yet. I mean that's very, you know an extremely dynamic piece. But I don't have those flight schedules as of right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, and the follow up, we have seen videos of babies being hefted over the barb wire and walls and U.S. servicemen taking them on.

Can you tell us what's going on? Are these babies of families who have visas, have U.S. passports, are they Afghans? Are they people with credentials? So, what's happening to their families?

TAYLOR: So, we do know --- OK, yes.

The video you're talking about, the parent asked the Marines to look after the baby because the baby was ill. And so, the Marine you see reaching it over the wall took it to a Norwegian hospital that's at the airport. They treated the child and returned the child to the child's father.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there only one?

TAYLOR: I'm only aware of the one incident. But it was an act of compassion because they were concern about the baby's --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are they going to be brought? The father or were they put back outside the airport?

TAYLOR: I don't know, Jen. The baby was returned to its father. I don't know where they are now.

I mean obviously, we have a responsibility to return a child to the child's parent. I don't know who the parent is and whether they are an SIV applicant -- or I just don't have that level of detail. But I think it was very humane act of compassion by the Marines. And it's exactly the kind of skill and professionalism the general talked about.

Oh, I already got you. Go ahead. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a question for the general. Sir, I was wondering now that the airport is secure, if you can take us back to the breach that occurred on Monday.

TAYLOR: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the latest assessment of how that occurred? What forces were in the area of that part of the airport at the time and what was the interaction there?

TAYLOR: As we know early on as we built combat power and in that early stages, it was very dynamic. We assessed that after that happened and obviously reinforced and throughout those days have ensured that the 360-degree perimeter is.

You know, I don't have the tactical AR that you know was not a requirement to pass that up to the Joint staff. But what I do know is that was quickly, you know, fixed and the commanders there were able to use the assets they had immediately and then as we built more combat power to ensure that that hasn't happened since then?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there any interaction with the Taliban ongoing on this?

TAYLOR: Always. I mean like I said earlier, you know, that communication at that level is continuous and happening.

MODERATOR: We got time for just one more and I haven't taken hardly any from the phones. Terace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir. Thank you so much. Going back to the children that were being passed over the wall. Is there going to be any I guess regulation stating that this should not be happening to kind of regulate that parents aren't taking their children and trying to pass them off to get them inside the gate?

TAYLOR: I don't know of no such effort to do that. Terace. Again these are U.S. servicemen and women deployed in a still dangerous and difficult mission. And I think what you saw there is the same thing that you saw when that air force jet packed to capacity with people wanting to get out.

They are doing the best they can to be as compassionate as they can. And again, the baby was not harmed. It was treated for whatever the illness was and returned to the father. And I think you're seeing again these men and women incredibly brave doing the best they can to be as compassionate as they can.

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And I think you're going to continue to see that kind of compassion going forward.

OK, guys, we got to get going. Thank you very much.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right. Admiral Kirby, General Taylor there from the Pentagon.

First the news of the last 24 hours. 17 flights have left the airport there in Kabul carrying 6,000 passengers. The general says that included quote, a couple hundred American citizens. Some clean up, some clarity there from the Pentagon.

Let's bring back CNN international security editor Nick Paton Walsh, CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier and CNN military analyst Colonel Cedric Layton.

Nick, first to you on the question that both the president and now the general have been asked about the potential to expand operations into Kabul to send people out.

Detail the risk of that of course comes to American forces if that decision is made.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, I mean it is interesting. Isn't it? Sort of President Joe Biden sort of suggested that was something they might look at. Clearly, it seemed like John Kirby's mission off this presidential speech is to kind of come in and provide the clean up or the details there.

Look, the idea of sending, even if you have 6,000 troops on the airport, of sending some of them down that main airport road all around into a densely occupied urban area with Taliban essentially feeling more in control than they have done in 20 years of the capital city, is exceptionally perilous.

We've seen in the previous times when the U.S. frankly controlled Afghanistan that their forces were exceptionally cautious as they moved around Kabul. I mean often they caused traffic jams. It was an exceptionally difficult role for them.

So, I think that would be not only perilous to troops but also the people who they are trying to extract. So that may be something of a nonstarter frankly. I mean if you begin to slowly push U.S. troops out from the airfield, out towards the areas you essentially come across a similar problem where you have to create security cordon of some degree and you may argue that the best security cordon is the airport fence.

So is the capacity there for an expanded mission but some -- again, as we hear a bit from -- a very clear message from the White House, from the Pentagon again. 17 planes, 6,000 people moved out and then this sudden shuddering which appears to because they simply ran out of space where they were sending them. Now there's other options have opened up. But this may be a continual process.

And what we haven't really got to the bottom of here still yet, two, three days in this sort of crisis management by this administration, is how long a task this could actually be. Joe Biden talked about SIVs, the special immigrant programs possibly extending that to kind of the P-2 variety where NGOs and those who worked intensely with the U.S. might be taken out as well. But so many on the airport they're simply because they managed to

somehow scramble through the fence. So, it has sort of expanded in the minds of many Kabulis, into, if you can get on the airport, you can probably get to America. And that's something that appeals to millions possibly of Afghans.

So, they will have to work out when that finally stops. When their red line is there too. And they are going to have to work out as well, the enduring question, which is how many Americans that are a priority are there still in Kabul?

One final thing that's bugs me from hearing these last few questions was President Joe Biden was very clear that Al Qaeda was gone. He essentially said the reason we went into Afghanistan is no longer there. Now John Kirby had to kind of wind that back and say, yes, there's still a presence there and then talked about lack of intelligence and not having clear numbers.

Look, there's not much doubt about this at all. There are probably hundreds in there, a core of Al Qaeda there. A Treasury report in January talked about how they were in fact growing in their presence. There's very little doubt there's a lot of Al Qaeda and that possibly there are other affiliates around who could be of use to them too.

In fact, I reported on how the U.S. appeared to have acted on a raid in Syria against Al Qaeda because of information gleaned in Afghanistan on a raid against senior Al Qaeda there. It's a real active problem. And I think the way in which they are trying to slide that to one side and say, job done. Let's move on. Why should we be there forever? Is the thing that may come back to bite them in the years ahead.

BLACKWELL: Yes, the president spoke unequivocally there seemingly that Al Qaeda was not there. Some nuance from the admiral.

Panel stand by. I've got to get to Ryan Nobles, who has breaking news for us right now. Top U.S. military officials are briefing lawmakers. Ryan, what are you learning?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Victor. There's a series of briefings that are set to take place today. These are virtual briefings with the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, the Secretary of State, Antony Blinken and General Milley, the Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The House briefing we're told is happening as we speak. And it has been somewhat contentious with lawmakers, both Republican and Democrat pressing the top leadership of the Biden administration looking for answers as to what exactly went wrong in Afghanistan and this withdrawal.

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In particular we're getting reports of the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin himself saying that he has heard of reports of Americans that were beaten by the Taliban during this withdrawal process. And he went on and told lawmakers that he felt that that was unacceptable.

Now for the most part, though, Victor, this is an unclassified briefing. So, the administration officials are not going into great detail about what they know about this particular situation. That could happen next week. There will be a series of classified in-person briefings that will happen here on Capitol Hill, including on Tuesday that's set to take place at 10:30 on Tuesday with members of the House.

So, there are definitely a lot of concern from lawmakers on Capitol Hill about this situation in Afghanistan -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Ryan Nobles for us there on Capitol Hill. The headline from that I have there is reports from the defense secretary of Americans being beaten by members of the Taliban. He says that is obviously unacceptable.

Let's bring back the panel. I'm going to start with Kim Dozier. Kim, how that variable changes what we are watching in Kabul outside the airport.

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, just the fact that the defense secretary apparently said that gives me a bit of hope that they're being realistic behind closed doors. Because I have to say listening to both the president and then John Kirby from the Pentagon, it was a surreal moment because what they're describing is not what I'm hearing about on the ground, doesn't match the pictures. It does match the experience of either Afghans, Americans trying to get out or this large network of NGOs and former officials who have been trying to charter planes to get them in there and get people out.

I know of more than two dozen people last night who missed their plane because the Taliban beat them and wouldn't let them through. They were international aid workers.

I also know that the -- I've heard from people on the ground, they filmed surreptitiously through windows et cetera that the Taliban are starting to surgically go to the homes of senior Afghan officials from the last government, journalists. They are starting to look for people for payback. So that means you don't have a lot of time to get these people out, and there is a real mood of desperation that's starting to drive them.

Also, you know, how do you get through -- I have a friend who I've been working on their P-2 application because they worked for a U.S. media. How can I tell him and his family of seven to go through that crowd of several thousand people? He doesn't know how he's going to get through.

BLACKWELL: Yes, and we have spoken with several veterans who have been reaching out to their translators, their fixers trying to help them and the melee outside of that airport makes it almost important for most of them to get through.

Colonel, let me come to you with -- I expected to hear some clarity about the 169 Americans who the president said military assets went over the wall to retrieve. Didn't seem like Admiral Kirby, General Taylor had any details there. They just described it as a short distance and a short period. Are you surprised by appearing to be flat-footed when being asked about that?

COLONEL CEDRIC LAYTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, I am, Victor. I mean when everybody knows that's a, you know, a big moment when our troops go across the wall like that, in whether it's, you know, just a few feet or a mile or two. We really do need to know about that.

So, there is, you know, clearly something that happened there. I suspect it was very based on what they said during the military briefing that it was close to the perimeter of the airport. But, again, that's only a suspicion. It's not, you know, something that we've confirmed or that we know for sure.

And what it shows is that there must be some flexibility in at least the application of the rules of engagement that our troops are operating under. So, that could open up some, well, we'll call it interesting possibilities for the future. And hopefully people know that this is a very fluid and very dynamic and very, very dangerous area.

BLACKWELL: Colonel, in the seconds that we have left, I think they put an important question on the table. If this is going to extend beyond August 31st, why not say it? If this is going to be over on August 31st, why not say that?

LAYTON: Well, I think what you're looking at is, you know, the nuance of if you say something very concretely with a fixed date, that's going to cause all kinds of problems for the people that are going to be left behind if they can't meet all their logistical needs and if the gates remain, in effect, closed to the Afghan SIV and P-2 applicants.

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So, what you have is, you know, this problem where you want to get out of the country, you know, from a political standpoint, but on the other hand you also want to take care of all the people. It's best for the administration not to give a full, final date in this case.

BLACKWELL: All right. Thank you all for the reporting and the analysis. The Pentagon says flights will now resume out of Kabul as the thousands try to evacuate the Taliban controlled Afghanistan.

Stay with CNN for continuing coverage.

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