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People Scrambled in Kabul Airport; Countries Taking Their Share of Refugees; Afghans Don't Buy Taliban's Flowery Words; State Department Ignore Warning from Diplomats; NATO Officials to Meet Over Afghanistan Issue; Haiti in Desperate Need of Aid. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired August 20, 2021 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Hello, and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. I appreciate your company.

Coming up here on CNN Newsroom. Chaos at Kabul's airport, thousands of Afghans desperate to leave and unforgettable scenes of children being handed to U.S. soldiers in hope of a better life.

U.S. diplomats alerted the State Department about a potential catastrophe in Afghanistan long before the Taliban takeover. Why they feel their warning was ignored.

And a former teacher shares her thoughts of the country with the Taliban in charge and why she doesn't believe it when they say women will be respected.

In the coming hours, the U.S. president is expected to address the chaos in Afghanistan caused by the rapid withdrawal of U.S. troops. The White House says 9,000 people have been evacuated in recent days, including 350 Americans on Thursday.

Afghanistan marking Independence Day on Thursday, a celebration dating back to the end of British rule more than a century ago. The response from the Taliban? Whips and gunfire to disperse the defiant crowds.

The harsh crackdown underscoring the fear that's been building for days at Kabul airport. The number of Afghans desperate to leave in the thousands and growing by the day. And the images of children being handed from the crowd to soldiers on the other side, speaks to the grim view so many have for the future if they cannot leave.

But in the hastily arranged evacuation of Americans and Afghan allies, some of those giant C-17 cargo planes and others have been leaving Kabul with empty seats. Even as the U.S. and others scramble to speed up evacuation flights, thousands more Afghans just outside the airport gates are unable to get in because of the Taliban, even if they have the necessary paperwork.

Nick Paton Walsh with the latest. NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: It's

America's final act in Afghanistan those longest war, and it involves getting many Americans, many Afghans loyal to America to run a kind of gauntlet from the center of Kabul up to the main airport, where they hope to get flights to the United States, maybe elsewhere, and start a new life in safety. But for that, they must go through an extraordinary challenge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH (voice over): What should be the easiest drive in Kabul is the reason the city is on edge. Head up the main airport road since Monday when I drove it, a new run in to the Taliban. Then they were beating people back, perhaps to clear the civilian runway crowded with desperate people then.

By Wednesday, it had gotten worse when they were clearly stopping people from using their escape to America and accosting CNN. Taliban controlled that road, the entrance at the end of it and the road to the left. Now many are trying to get in from the north road but that's led to devastating scenes of the north gate.

When I was there, the crush was dangerous but the numbers have just grown further still. At night, stun grenades are being thrown when huge crowds still brave roaming Taliban in the dark in the hope the numbers at the gate have dropped. And in the day, it got nastier still.

There were moments of hope, but they carry risk. When people see one success, they might want to try the same thing on mass. Later in the day, U.S. troops had to repel the crowd. At other gate, what seemed to be British soldiers struggled to push back crowds and huge queues are formed, blocking the streets.

America has a numbers problem, getting enough people on, but also claiming huge progress while not really knowing how many priority cases they're really seeking.

UNKNOWN: How many Americans, American citizens remain in Afghanistan?

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: I don't know.

NED PRICE, SPOKESMAN, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: What we do know is that 6,000 people are now at the airport 6,000 people have been able to make it, have made it through the processing. And as of a couple of hours ago we have received only a small handful of reports otherwise from Americans inside.

WALSH: Inside, it is messy, but there are flights, often many of them where lives are walked onto C-17s and changed forever when the doors close. The story of the airport, the last place America controls in Afghanistan, where the chaos outside the wire means the promises inside fall perilously short.

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[03:05:03]

WALSH (on camera): Now the U.S. talked of lofty goals of trying to get 5 to 9,000 people flown out every day, and they claimed that they have now on their airport 6,000 people processed and ready to get on aircraft. That will be extraordinary if that had indeed occurred.

But they also admit as you heard there that they don't know how many Americans are out there in Afghanistan, hoping to get out. Extraordinary not to have that basic number there to quantify how big a task is ahead.

And so, for the days ahead, there are concerns that once again in Afghanistan the reality of the ground those terrifying scenes outside the airport even today are simply not matched or recognized by the statements from American officials.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Doha.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES (on camera): Many Afghans who managed to board a flight are facing uncertain futures, some have no idea where they will actually end up. Governments worldwide still finalizing details on which countries will host refugees. NATO foreign ministers will meet in the coming hours to address the crisis.

What we know now is that the U.S. says it will take in 30,000 Afghans, the U.K. and Canada 20,000 each. Meanwhile, Turkey's president is calling E.U. leaders to take more responsibility, saying his country will not be Europe's refugee warehouse.

Waves of Afghan evacuees pouring into Dubai's International Airport on military planes. The UAE has become an evacuation hub and the first stop for many as they begin their new lives in new lands.

CNN's Eleni Giokos is there to show us what the evacuees experienced as they arrived.

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ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: This royal air force aircraft carrying passengers from Kabul just landing here in Dubai World Central, now according to officials, around 1,600 evacuees from Afghanistan. So, these are eligible Afghans with paperwork and visas, as well as British citizens have been evacuated over the last four days and coming here to the UAE.

Upon arrival, these people, passengers are given medical assistance. They tested for COVID and given, of course food, and much-needed water.

If you look at the expression on the passenger's faces, you see almost pain and numbness and a sense of trauma. And one only needs to reflect on the chaotic scenes around Kabul airport. Just getting to the airport was a Herculean task. Trying to get through those Taliban checkpoints and then trying to get through the airport checkpoints to get finally on aircraft leaving Kabul and then come to an airport like this, where you are seeing assistance all around.

Some people carrying just plastic bags with their belongings, some just carrying garbage bags. Others being able to take some of their belongings, and we are seeing luggage being carried out.

You've got to remember this is a military aircraft. This wasn't made to handle passengers, you know, for a long flight. So, you can only imagine what the experience must be like. But the only semblance of hope I can say, and just normalcy that I've seen, is when you see toddlers and children that are accompanying these very traumatized adults, running around and playing and smiling, it kind of gives you a sense that these people escaped a very hopeless situation.

Eleni Giokos, CNN, Dubai.

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HOLMES (on camera): Now the U.S. says it is working overtime to approve a Special Immigrant Visas for the Afghans fleeing the Taliban. A homeland security official says it is all hands-on deck situation. But the visa program is said to be bogged down by systemic issues, bureaucracy.

One U.S. official told CNN the Special Immigrant Visa process is, quote, "very slow" but there has been very little attention to fix it. The program began in 2009 for Afghan citizens and their families who worked for the U.S. government.

Meanwhile, Mexico has started processing Afghan refugee asylum applications on Wednesday. Mexico has not said how many refugees it plans to accept.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh joins me now live from Istanbul with more on all of this.

Let's start with what is frankly a mess at the airport. And now you've got the U.S. negotiating with the victor, the Taliban, to get, quote, "safe passage" for people just to get to the airport, let alone get in. It's bizarre, really.

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's quite stunning, Michael, to see the U.S. government, the U.S. military having to negotiate with the Taliban, having to rely on their assurances to be able to run this operation, to keep it going.

[03:10:02]

We understand from U.S. officials that they've got several channels that are open with the Taliban, they are in constant contact with them to try and ensure that the operation at the airport continues, these evacuations.

We understand from U.S. officials it is the top U.S. commander on the ground who is leading these negotiations. Talking to what has been describe as his Taliban counterpart. But one of the issues that U.S. officials said that they had been

facing, that yes, they've got these several channels open, that they are continuing these negotiations, and yes, some evacuation flights are taking place. One of the issues has been they don't really still, to this moment, know the structure when it comes to the Taliban, who is controlling what. And whether whatever is being negotiated between these commanders is actually being communicated down to the fighters who are controlling the checkpoints, who are controlling the streets.

And this is perhaps one of the reasons we are seeing what we are seeing from our team on the ground, the reports of people facing these obstacles, harassment, beatings in their attempts to get to the airport and many reports of people being blocked by the Taliban.

Obviously, Michael, after what has been described as this catastrophic operation, and this evacuation at the airport, U.S. officials are really trying hard to project this image that things are under control, that things are starting to run smoothly. This is at least the messaging we are seeing from D.C. over the past couple of days.

Of course, the reality on the ground as we are seeing is very, very different. We have to wait and see what it's like today. But we understand, a short time ago, a White House official announcing that they have managed to get 3,000 people evacuated on Thursday. That, he says includes 350 U.S. citizens.

There's also family members applicants for the Special Immigrant Visas, the SIV, and their family members and other vulnerable Afghans. They were evacuated on 16 S -- C-17 planes over Afghanistan, and they say that the U.S. military managed to facilitate 11 other charter flights.

But, you know, Michael, as you have been discussing with your guests, getting to the airport is just one of those challenges. It's a very -- getting people on these flights is just one part of getting out of the country. You've got that very, very dangerous journey of trying to get to the airport where people are facing the challenges.

And U.S. officials have made it clear, they are only sticking with their operations at the airport, they don't have the capability to go out and pick up people and get them to the airport, Michael.

HOLMES: Yes. And a lot of those allies are just not going to get out. That is the sad fact.

Jomana Karadsheh there in Istanbul. Good to see you, my friend. Thank you.

Now the last time the Taliban were in charge of Afghanistan, women were denied basic freedoms like access to education. And few believe the militants have really changed their ways. I spoke a short time ago with an Afghan woman, a teacher, we are not revealing her name due to obvious safety concerns. Here's how she responded when I asked what she thinks lies ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNKNOWN: I'm confused, I'm hopeless, I don't know what is coming my way, where I will go. How I will spend my life, and I can't see my future, the achievement that I had this time. Now I know that all will be taken away. Basically, I don't have a future right now.

HOLMES: You got married less than three weeks ago but now you are hiding with your parents without your husband, because he was worried about you being alone while he worked. I can't imagine what that's like for you. What do you see is your future?

UNKNOWN: Again, my future is uncertain, because what the Taliban did, they went door to door for just looking for women and girls age between 12 and 25 years old, and who are asked and forced to marry them. Right? Now I'm worried because I can't stay alone at home, and I can't stand spend time with my in-laws. It's a giant family. So, I'm worried about my life. My husband has taken a decision that I must live with my parents. But for how long I can stay here with my parents?

HOLMES: You are a teacher. And I just wondered that --

UNKNOWN: Yes.

HOLMES: -- what you think will be the loss in terms of what has been gained in educational opportunities for girls and for women in the workforce, like yourself? What damage do you think this will do?

UNKNOWN: The last 20 years have given hope to the people of Afghanistan, right? And people have stopped going to schools, and girls and women were represented in all spheres of life.

[03:14:58]

But today, the change we saw taken away. And there is now hope for future because all the achievements would be taken. As I said earlier, like they don't allow women to go -- like, previously I have freedom to go alone home, right, to school and come back to stay at home.

But right now, I cannot go without a man. There should be my husband or my brother or my husband to take me to school and bring me back. I can't have that freedom as I had before. No one, like there was (Inaudible) flight, there were women that were walking and injured. There were women that are working as a teacher in many schools, but now they can't.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And our thanks to that teacher for bravely sharing her story from Kabul.

Now a group of American diplomats warned weeks ago that the catastrophe that we are now seeing in Afghanistan was a real possibility. And their warning went right to the top U.S. diplomat, the secretary of state.

CNN's Kylie Atwood with that story. KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: U.S. diplomats in Kabul

wrote Secretary of State Tony Blinken a memo in mid-July, urging the State Department to take more action to both process and evacuate those Afghans who had worked alongside U.S. troops and U.S. diplomats, particularly given what they were seeing unfolding on the ground.

Taliban gains happening in what they predicted to be an Afghan government fall by the time the U.S. completely pulled out their military in August. They wanted to take action to mitigate against a case in area when there was a complete amount of chaos, which is frankly exactly what we are seeing unfold right now.

Now deputy national security adviser John Finer spoke with Wolf Blitzer, and said that this cable did predict that there was going to be the fall of the Afghan government by the time of the U.S. withdrawal, but that it didn't predict that it would happen as quickly as it did just like the rest of the U.S. government. He also said that there were certain things that they suggested in this memo that the department actually implemented quickly thereafter.

Now I'm also told, however, that there were parts of it that weren't implemented quickly enough. And that is frustrating to these diplomats who are watching this unfold right now.

Now Ned Price, the State Department spokesperson said that the Secretary of State, Tony Blinken, reviews all dissent memos, so theoretically he would have reviewed this one. And he reviews all of the responses to these memos. And that they value the dissent memo channel.

But the fact that there was even a dissent memo is noteworthy in of itself. It demonstrates that these diplomats were so frustrated that their voices weren't being heard, that they had to make their voice heard to the secretary of state in the form of a dissent.

And we should also note that this comes as the president, President Biden, himself, has not taken any responsibility for how this all unfolded. Even when asked in that ABC interview, if there were problems in the process and planning leading up to the troop withdrawal, he basically said no, this chaos was inevitable.

These diplomats are saying, however, there was more that could be done to prevent against the situation we're seeing unfold right now.

Kylie Atwood, CNN, the State Department.

HOLMES: How to safely speed up evacuations from Afghanistan is a top priority for NATO. The group's foreign ministers will gather virtually in a few hours for an emergency meeting on the crisis.

Melissa Bell is following developments for us from Paris. I guess, Melissa, everyone seems to agree what's going on in Afghanistan is dreadful, particularly at the airport. What's on the table for this meeting and is there a sense it could achieve something?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The American secretary of state had a meeting virtually with the general secretary of NATO yesterday. They agreed that on the table would be trying to sort out an orderly withdrawal of those leaders to be extracted from Afghanistan at this point, and trying to move forward to ensure some kind of peace and stability for the country.

But it does all feel like a little bit too late. What we've heard from NATO allies here in Europe over the course of the last few days is a fair amount of frustration, Michael, at the way that this has unfolded. Remember that when the -- when NATO went into Afghanistan, followed the United States into Afghanistan back in 2001, it was the first time that the alliance in its seven-decade history had invoked that crucial article 5 that is at the very heart of what NATO is.

That is, that if one of its members is attacked, it is an attack on all of them. That the withdrawal should have happened in such a catastrophically disorganized way, that there should have been so little organization that so many Europeans are complaining that this, the architecture of multilateralism which is the very definition of what NATO is, should have come under attack, by this unilateral withdrawal by the United States.

You can expect, I think a very fractious meeting when the foreign ministers get together later today. And this goes back to something that Europeans have been talking about for some time.

[03:19:59]

You'll remember that back in 2019 when the United States unilaterally withdraw from Syria at the time, it was Emmanuel Macron who have said, look, we have to have a serious debate now about what NATO is, what it means, describing the organization as braindead.

That is a conversation that's continued here in Europe. Under the Trump administration these Europeans has decided that what they needed was more strategic autonomy, less dependence on the United States.

And I think what has happened over the course of the last week is confirmed in the minds of many European leaders that that was something that was correct and it needs to be more pursued, more aggressively.

So, I guess, in a way, what's likely to be at the heart of today's meeting is what is NATO for when its members can't decide once they've gone in together to withdraw together in a coordinated way, Michael.

HOLMES: All right. Melissa, thanks for that update. Melissa Bell there in Paris for us.

Now the clock is ticking in Haiti to help people who suffered serious injuries in that devastating earthquake.

Coming up next, medical crews rush to evacuate quake victims but time is not on their side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HOLMES (on camera): Aid is starting to trickle in as Haiti reels from that earthquake that killed more than 2,000 people. The government says its third aid convoy reached the affected area Thursday. This is five days after the quake. Local hospitals have been overwhelmed by patients they don't have the resources to treat.

But as Joe Johns reports, medical evacuations are picking up speed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The helicopter convoy bringing the most seriously injured from the earthquake zone to Port-au-Prince, Haiti, running from sun up to sun down. Today, they are greeted by a surgeon, a broken bone specialist who quickly evaluates their condition.

The 7. 2 magnitude earthquake left more than 2,000 people dead and over 12,000 people injured, causing hospitals in Haiti to be completely overwhelmed. A short distance by air from Les Cayes to Port-au-Prince, but getting here can be a slow process.

This 23-month-old girl suffered a laceration running from thigh to ankle in Saturday's earthquake. When she finally was flown into the capital, her leg was badly infected.

UNKNOWN: It took a long time to get her.

JEAN WILDRIC HIPPOLYTE, ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON: To get her, so it's about three days. The facilities are pretty good over there. It's an issue that they are dealing with in the countryside.

JOHNS: Many of the patients coming in are children.

UNKNOWN (through translator): As I was sleeping, the bed was shaking, and then I ran. And there was a brick in front of me that fell on my feet.

JOHNS: From the airport, ambulances fan out across the city, taking the patients to hospitals that should best suit their needs.

[03:25:03]

Here at the hospital run by Doctors Without Borders, on the west side of town where the staff have been dealing with more than just the rapidly filling beds.

JOHANNE PAUL, PHYSICIAN, MEDECINS SANS FRONTIERES (through translator): The hardest part is when a staff member knows or receives a patient to whom they may be related and it's tougher for them.

JOHNS: The stories of the patients are heart wrenching.

"My first son died next to me," this mother of four says. "She lost not one but two sons in the earthquake, both dying right next to her when their house collapsed on top of them. She was pinned in the rubble for hours before being rescued."

GLADYS CASIMIR, LOST TWO SONS IN EARTHQUAKE (through translator): When they started digging and they made a hole, I grabbed one of the people's feet so they knew I was alive.

JOHNS: After being pulled from the rubble her right leg was amputated but she says her spirit is unbroken.

CASIMIR (through translator): I have a sister and mother who are living in the states. I want them to know to stay strong, because God has given, God will take away.

JOHNS: Joe Johns, CNN, Port-au-Prince, Haiti.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES (on camera): China doesn't seem as worried about Taliban control in Afghanistan as some nations are. After the break we'll take a look at how Beijing views the militants in Kabul and the unlikely partnership it seeks.

Also, one of the pioneers of women's sport in Afghanistan has an urgent message for the female athlete still in the country. That's when we come back.

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HOLMES (on camera): Welcome back to our viewers all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. You're watching CNN Newsroom.

The United States is ramping up its efforts to get people out of Afghanistan. The White House says 3,000 were evacuated from the Kabul airport on Thursday that figure including American citizens, vulnerable Afghans and those applying for Special Immigrant Visas. Fourteen thousand people have been flown out of Afghanistan since the end of July, and 9,000 since Saturday.

President Biden is scheduled to speak about the evacuation efforts in the coming hours.

China, it seems, wants you to believe that this is not the same Taliban that ruled so brutally before, going so far as to say that the Taliban are more, quote, "sober and rational." While keeping an eye on the far western border, Beijing is expected to take a very different approach than the west.

Here's CNN's David Culver.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Just weeks before the Taliban seized power in Afghanistan, China made a very public display -

HERE

[03:30:00]

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): -- Here's CNN's David Culver.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Just weeks before the Taliban's seize power in Afghanistan, China made a very public display of combing closer to the group's leadership. Chinese Foreign Minister, Wang Yi, meeting a Taliban delegation in northern China in July giving legitimacy and perhaps confidence to the militant group long regarded with fear and suspicion by the rest of the world.

As many global powers now rush to escape Afghanistan, China claims it remains one of the few countries to retain its embassy in the capital. But China's support for the Taliban comes with strings attached. China's help with reconstruction in exchange for the Taliban assuring regional stability.

HUA CHUNYING, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON (through translator): They will never allow any forces to use Afghan territory to endanger China.

CULVER: A deal brokered between awkward allies. A militant group representing hardline Islam and a Chinese government accused of cultural genocide against and mass detainment of its Muslim minorities at home. But China's relationship with the Taliban goes back a long way.

SEAN ROBERTS, AUTHOR THE WAR ON THE UYGHURS: It established relations with the Taliban already in 1999, at the encouragement of Pakistan, which is one of China's closest allies.

CULVER: The relationship was seen as pragmatism to manage a potential threat as China shares a small border with Afghanistan, through the Wakhan Corridor. And China's multibillion dollar belt and road investments in neighboring Pakistan are at stake.

HENRY STOREY, POLITICAL RISK ANALYST: I think they are very wary to get involved militarily, and so at this stage, I think trying to cultivate the top ranks in the Taliban, promised lots of foreign aid and investments. That is really their ways worst option at the moment.

CULVER: The Taliban for its part has not spoken out publicly against China's crackdown on its Uyghurs Muslim population in Xinjiang. A silence replicated by many other Muslim majority countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. The Chinese government defends its Xinjiang policy and says it's trying to stamp out terrorism. After several attacks which it blamed on a group called the East Turkistan Islamic Movement, or ETIAM, a tiny fringe group that began to dissolve when its leader was killed by the Pakistani military in 2003.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: On my orders -- CULVER: Sean Roberts, author of "The War On The Uyghurs" says the

Chinese government used George W. Bush's war on terror to justify its harsh policies, targeting the ethnic Muslim minorities.

UNKNOWN: I think that shielded China from a lot of criticism for some of the draconian policies that carried out against Uyghurs.

CULVER: But other groups who could use the plight of the Uyghurs cause to recruit jihadist, a concern for Asia's superpower as it tries to navigate the new political reality on its doorstep. David Culver, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: The former captain of the Afghan women's football team knows firsthand how dangerous the Taliban are. Khalida Popal is deathly afraid for the female athletes who are in Afghanistan. She spoke to CNN "World Sports," Amanda Davis

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KHALIDA POPAL, FORMER CAPTAIN, AFGHAN WOMEN'S FOOTBALL TEAM: I remember my childhood at the age of eight, nine years old, when Taliban took over the country, when they started like killing and putting people in prison because they have been active. I remember my father and family being so scared, sitting at home, waiting that anytime the door would be knocked and they will be taken by Taliban. And I remembered my family being beaten by Taliban.

Some are family members have been shot dead by Taliban. And we had to escape as a refugee, seeking for protection for our lives. But everything was forgotten. When we returned back in 2001, a lot of great hope for a future, when all the international community enter the country, with words, with big sentences, words defending the rights of women of Afghanistan. We will not let the women of Afghanistan to live in darkness of Taliban again.

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORTS (voice over): So, the people that you are speaking to, your friends, your family, your fellow footballers. What are they saying to you about how they are feeling?

POPAL: Especially like the players, I would say that everybody is afraid. Everybody is worried. But -- especially our players are saying is that we have done everything possible to bring the pride for -- the national pride for our country. We have really fought so hard to earn the name on the jersey, and earn the badge on our chest, and wear the uniform of the national team and represent our country in an international level. It has been taken from me.

[03:35:08]

Now we are afraid of having that uniform at home. What hurts me the most is when I have been, in the past few days, I have been calling them and telling them to burn down your uniform. Try to remove anything that you have from the national team so they don't identify it if they come to your house. Take down your social medias. Try to be silent. Try to hide your identity and remove your identity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Now many Afghans living abroad are understandably terrified about their loved ones back home. And like those in Greece, they are demonstrating to voice their concerns. They appeal to the international community to support Afghanistan and help people flee the Taliban. One protester speaking about the fear of not being able to reach his family by phone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Right now we cannot call our families back home in Afghanistan, to hear their voice. The government -- I mean, there is no government. The Taliban took everything, the journalists right now being run, their social media, I don't know what they are saying or what they are doing. So we have no idea what people are going through. They hide the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Asfandyar Mir, is affiliated with Stanford University, Center For International Security. It's great to have your expertise on this. What is or might be different about the Taliban compared to the Taliban who ran the country prior to 9/11? Essentially the same leaders, aren't they?

ASFANDYAR MIR, COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT, STANFORD UNIVERSITY, CENTER FOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY (on camera): Thanks for having me on your show, Michael. The political echelon of the Taliban today has many leaders from the 1990s. And due to that, as well as the mythical status of the founder of the Taliban, (inaudible), the core value of the Taliban very much remained the same. You know, this group is very committed to their so-called Islamic emirate. It sees their leader of the movement as a caliphate like figure, rejects elections and center its favorite school of Islamic theology in its political vision for the country.

And I would argue that their role -- viewed on the role of women in society are more like lack of the role of (inaudible). It remain the same, even if there are some changes on the margins. Yet I think we have to recognize that the Taliban have fought the U.S. and the international military coalition for now two decades. So due to that, due to that testified, they have improved.

They are politically much sharper today than they were two decades ago. They are good at international outreach from an initial and enduring alliance with the Pakistanis. They now have relationships with the Russians, the Chinese, the Indonesians, even the Iranians, and they are able to divide their rivals, court some, sideline others. (Inaudible) and they have improve a lot of -- what, yes?

HOLMES: That's a fascinating insights. Two point oh, much like one point over in an ideological sense. I want to ask you from a counter- terrorism point of view, what has been the reaction of jihadists around the world, as they watch the Taliban essentially cruised the victory? What are they saying?

MIR: Global jihadists are absolutely electrified with the return of the Taliban. They are feeling tranquil. They are inspired by the example of the Taliban, which is generating a lot of euphoria. Jihadi leaders in south Asia, in the Middle East and parts of Africa see the Taliban's example as a validation of the doctrine of jihad. And in Afghanistan in particular, there are already a dozen or so jihadi groups with basis.

You know, so it's not a question of establishing new bases. And these groups will directly benefit from the euphoria over the Taliban's win. And due to their enduring relationships with the Taliban, and groups which will benefit directly include al-Qaeda, and its local units, anti-China jihadists, some central Asian jihadist and some anti Pakistan jihadists as well.

And my sense is that it will take less than 24 months, that the Biden administration initially argued was the timeframe for the regeneration of international terrorism from the country.

HOLMES: That is a frightening short time to be back to a pre-9/11 concern about terrorists, camps in the like. It's not just the west at risk though, is it? I mean, I want to ask you too about Pakistan which has had a long-standing relationship with the Taliban. Might Pakistan regret that relationship? What risks does it face?

MIR: Look, as I mentioned, there are some anti Pakistan jihadist based in Afghanistan, specifically eastern Afghanistan. And over the last eight to 12 months, these jihadists have been mounting violence against the Pakistani state. And this violence has been gradually, incrementally growing up -- going up.

[03:40:05]

One of the first things that the Taliban did after taking Kabul was released prisoners. And one major group of prisoners that they released were these people from the Pakistani Taliban, the Tehrik-i- Taliban Pakistan, who have now joined the (inaudible) organizations. So the Afghan Taliban had already contributed to the strengthening of some anti-Pakistan jihadists. So I think, you know, this is going to be a very costly choice that the Pakistani government has made by supporting the Taliban all these years. I think Pakistan has some tough days ahead.

HOLMES: Right. We only have got a minute left, but I want to ask you, real quick, how united is the Taliban leadership? Are there differences in ideology, perhaps among those who were children or not even alive during the previous rule?

MIR: Look, the political cohesion, political unity of the Afghan Taliban, it has been a long-standing current concern. Many analysts worry that the Afghan Taliban will fragment, this was a concern during the peace process as well. And this is pragmatically, because the U.S. strategy over the last two decades has been centered on dividing the group, driving wedges within these groups. You've heard about moderates and hard-liners in the Taliban? Though,

you know, I am not as receptive to that particular argument. I agree that there is factionalism in the Taliban. But I don't think these cleavages, this factionalism, has calcified to a point that the group might break up in the near future. They had been able to take along some of their younger cadres, which have joined the movement over the last two decades.

HOLMES: Right.

MIR: And what I know is that there are no signs of publicly observable dissent, there has been no splintering in this group over the last many years. And over the last two years or so, I think they have delivered on some major promises that had made to the U.S., such as, you know, holding fire against U.S. personnel, in Afghanistan. Especially since the U.S. Taliban, (inaudible) struck in February 2020.

HOLMES: Right. Fascinating and worrying analysis. Asfandyar Mir, thank you so much.

MIR: Thanks for having me.

HOLMES: India is warning about the potential for terrorism in Afghanistan and taking a swipe at their common neighbor, Pakistan. CNN's Sophia Saifi is following this live from Islamabad. Plenty of regional concern about what is happening in Afghanistan. This is interesting about India's Foreign Minister, expressing concerns about terrorism, but at the same time poking at longtime foe Pakistan.

SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN PRODUCER (on camera): Yes, I mean, Michael this is something that Pakistan is also doing for the many, many years leading up to the fall of Kabul. Pakistan just came out, just last week and they said that the attack on Chinese workers at a One Belt One Road Project in northern Pakistan that took place on -- almost a little over a month ago on July 14th.

Pakistan's foreign minister had come out and said that the Indian and Afghan intelligence at the time, were responsible for this attack -- and that they were funding the Pakistani Taliban, the TTP, which is known to have stronghold in Afghanistan. And I think what is interesting is that you have this region, you have got a region which is shifting, you have got newer powers which are flexing their muscles. You have got China, you have got Pakistan, having China invested heavily in Pakistan, in the One Belt One Road Project.

Pakistan, coming out and saying that it is not going to acknowledge the Afghan Taliban, with which has always had, a very long relationship. The Pakistan, the Afghan Taliban, the Haqqani network was known to have a strong presence in the southern city of (inaudible), and now Pakistan is kind of hesitant. They are waiting to make a regional decision, according to them.

Pakistan's ambassador, who was the ambassador of Afghanistan, was recalled back to Kabul a month ago and the Pakistani ambassador had to come back to Islamabad about a month ago because of the diplomatic fallout between the two countries. Pakistan's ambassador is now very much back in Kabul on the diplomatic offensive. And he's meeting his Russian counterpart, his Chinese counterpart, he had meetings with Hamid Karzai, with the Delta Abdullah Abdullah.

And it seems that you know, President Ashraf Ghani did not have the best relationship with Imran Khan, Pakistan's Prime Minister. There was a lot of back and forth then. Pakistani, you know, defense analysts, et cetera would always argue that they had a more pro India bent at that time. But now with the Afghan Taliban in place, the questions are arising, it is changing the dynamics of the region.

The Afghan Taliban have said in their press conference that they are not going to allow Afghanistan to be used against its neighbors. But at the same time, you've got the Pakistani Taliban, the TTP, which has been responsible for some of the most heinous attacks in Pakistan, coming out and pledging allegiance to the Afghan Taliban, so a lot has changed, a lot of flux and it just remains to be seen how things will fall and settle into place. Michael?

[03:45:12]

HOLMES: All right, Sophia Saifi there, thank you so much, Sophia. We will take a quick break. When we come back, how one a-list celebrity was able to sidestep Hong Kong's strict quarantine rules?

Also Britney Spears accused of battery. What police and one of her are attorneys are saying. That's when we come back.

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HOLMES: New Zealand and parts of Australia are tightening COVID restrictions as the Delta variant fuels rises in cases there. Sydney extending its lockdown through September, the state of New South Wales reported nearly 650 new infections on Friday, most of them in Sydney. A nighttime curfew taking effect on Monday for some of the cities most affected areas. And a nationwide lockdown in New Zealand will be extended until next week. The country went into a snap lockdown earlier this week. The Prime Minister said the length of the new restrictions will be reevaluated on Monday.

Several cities in China are strengthening their joint accountability policy. That means everything from neighborhoods to employers, even local governments, can be accountable for the spread of the virus, unvaccinated residents who don't have a valid reason for exemption could see negative marks against them in the country's social credit system.

Outrage growing in Hong Kong after actress, Nicole Kidman, has managed to bypass strict quarantine rules. Local officials granted her a special exemption when she arrived from Australia, which Hong Kong now considers a medium risk country. She's in the city filming an upcoming TV series. CNN's Will Ripley, joins me now from Hong Kong this hour, where he is, you guess it, in quarantine. I guess we can file it under, it's OK for some. A lot of anger about this.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yeah, it's not OK for a lot of people in Hong Kong, that Nicole Kidman and four other members of her production team were able to fly in by private jets from Australia and bypass the city's draconian quarantine rules just days before the city actually made those rules even more strict, resulting in a rush of people at the Hong Kong airport last night, including yours truly, who had to cut international trips short, rebook, book new flights, new hotels, all at everyone's own expense, mind you, to try to avoid a three-week quarantine in some cases, instead of the two weeks that I am just beginning here right now.

Where you are lock in a room, you can't leave, your -- basically everything that comes in to the room has to stay in the room with you including the laundry, you get one chance per day to put your garbage out, but if you miss that window, you have to sit with it for another day.

[03:50:05]

And so it's not a great situation especially for people who can't afford to book a room with a view like this one, it might be in a very small room. I've even heard some people in quarantine, in rooms without windows, and of course a lot of other people who can't even afford a hotel quarantine self-paid at all. So they've had to stay here in Hong Kong, in some cases for nearly two years, unable to travel, unable to visit relatives because of the city's strict quarantine rules that make it impossible for them to see their parents, to see their loved ones, to leave this city.

And so to have an actress and her team coming and flout those rules, and be granted an exemption by the city -- the city defending the decision saying that what Nicole Kidman is doing, by filming her series about wealthy American expats is vital to the city's economy. It certainly is really rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. You know, given that all of the turmoil that the city has gone through, given the struggles of many of the people who live here, (inaudible) and otherwise because of the pandemic to see a Hollywood star out just a couple of days after arriving, spotted at stores and other locations on scene. Filming for her series which the city says is all work related. And has been pre-approved and threes, you know, intervals of COVID testing required over their first two weeks here in the city. Still, for many people, Michael, it's just not the right time. A bit tone-deaf, if you will.

HOLMES: Yeah, tone-deaf, a good way of putting it. This is a bit like your fifth quarantine, isn't it, all the traveling around?

RIPLEY: I've lost count, to be honest with you. And you think you get better at it. But honestly, I feel like -- there's piles of my luggage kind of surrounding me behind the camera here, Michael. I think this one, for some reason, because it was a rush to get back, because they change the rules. And you're in the middle of a vacation -- you just get everything booked and then all of a sudden, boom, Hong Kong changes the rules, you have to race back and now you're sitting here just completely not where you had intended to be doing. It mentally, for me, who is a privileged member of the city, who is able to travel, it's still a giant pain in the, you know what. (Inaudible).

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: It feels like every time I talk to you, you are in quarantine. Will, thank you. Will Ripley there in Hong Kong with a view. And we will be right back.

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HOLMES: And the chaos does continue at Kabul Airport in Afghanistan. And that's where our Clarissa Ward is at the moment. She joins me now live. Good to see you, Clarissa. What is the latest there?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Hi Michael. Well we are actually on the airfield, with some of the very lucky ones who will soon be leaving Afghanistan on one of these military carriers. They're very noisy, so my apologies if you can't hear me very well. But our journey took us roughly seven hours, the vast majority of people we have spoken to, though, have spent one or two days to try to get in. And I have to tell you, that initial (inaudible), to get in the first gate, is unlike anything I have ever experienced, pushing, clutching, people screaming, while holding on to each other's hand, desperately trying to get in this small door. We were lucky, because we were American citizens, but so many others are not.

[03:55:02]

Having said that, we have seen many Afghans inside at various checkpoints, moving through the very slow system that is in place to try to evacuate people, some of them standing out in the blazing hot sun for eight hours, screaming babies. At one stage we saw a newborn baby brought through on a military vehicle at high speed, because the baby had dehydrated and had heat stroke.

And one soldier told me, that yesterday people were actually throwing babies at these U.S. soldiers because they were so desperate to get their children out to a better future. One of these men actually caught one of the babies and later found the family and returns the child to the family.

But Michael, if that doesn't speak to unimaginable desperation -- but I just don't know what does. One of the soldiers here said that they have evacuated 13,000 people since last Friday, the largest airlift evacuation in U.S. history, according to him. But my God there is still a lot of work to do, a lot more people to save. The crowds outside the airport do not get any smaller. They seem to get bigger, if anything, every day, Michael.

HOLMES: An extraordinary situation. And it's heartbreaking too, the people who aren't going to be able to get out. If you had 30 seconds to wrap this up, what impressions do you leave?

WARD: My impression is that we are witnessing an astounding moment in history. There is a lot of pain. There is a lot of desperation, there is a lot of heartache and rage and bitterness and a lot of people are counting on America right now to do the right thing by its allies. And get these people out safely before it is too late. HOLMES: If only it had been started months earlier, some of those

people are not going to get out. And that's the sad fact of it. Clarissa, remarkable reporting by you and the team. I really appreciate it there at Kabul Airport.

And thank you for spending part of your day with me, I'm Michael Holmes. Follow me on Instagram and Twitter @holmesCNN. Kim Brunhuber is here next with more "CNN Newsroom."

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