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Pentagon Updates Afghanistan Withdrawal Efforts. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 23, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Yes.

I mean, you have just spelled it out, Spider, in a way that I think he's been very reluctant, the White House has been reluctant to, and the State Department has been reluctant to, because it's heartbreaking to think that we're not going to get all of the SIVs out, all of the people, all of the Afghans who helped us, who saved some of our troops' lives, et cetera.

And, Juliette, that brings me to you.

You understand government bureaucracy and paperwork and how complicated that can be. And I thought it was helpful that Jake Sullivan explained that not all Americans registered with the embassy when they got there, not all told the embassy when they left.

But what's the process for the Afghan helpers? I mean, I'm sure they didn't register with the embassy. And so the point is, how will we know when the mission is complete? How will we know when we have gotten everyone out?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So, we won't.

I mean, I think that that is what the White House doesn't want to say. And I think, also, we have to understand that the Taliban also has interests. They are not going to flag right now that they're willing to extend the deadline. They want to show that they have control over Afghanistan, and they need to counter the ISIS threat.

So, no one should expect the Taliban to say, sure, we're going to extend the deadline to you feel like you're ready. That doesn't mean other things aren't happening.

But what we do know is that there's a classification of SIVs who are already going to be U.S. citizens .They are going to third -- to countries that are not the U.S. We are giving them security reviews, biometric reviews and health reviews there.

Then they come to the U.S., where they get COVID testing. So just to make sure people understand, they're not just being dropped in the United States. Then there's going to be the class that still was in review. Those are the ones that you're hearing about are getting sped through.

But I do think it's likely that those who may have been worthy, but did not get into the process, will be left behind. It doesn't mean they will never get out, but that getting out will be, I think, dependent on the Taliban.

And that's -- it's just painful, like what Spider was saying. This is just horrible. But there are orders to doing this. And I think that we have to prioritize, of course, U.S., then the levels of SIVs at this stage.

BLACKWELL: Juliette, let me stay with you and this terror threat from ISISK, which a lot of people have heard of this, division or offshoot of ISIS that we have talked about for quite a while.

KAYYEM: Yes.

BLACKWELL: And they -- Jake Sullivan says that the threat is persistent, acute, real.

KAYYEM: Right.

BLACKWELL: How's that play into the decision-making on how long you stay, how many people stay, and when you start to evacuate?

KAYYEM: I know we're looking at great numbers in terms of evacuation.

But the number that we should also be focused on is that no U.S. soldier has been killed yet. So, knock on wood here. And that's because -- that's not just because of the U.S. Qatar and other countries are now helping us get U.S. citizens to the airport.

So there's a whole complicated system here and then, of course, to get ISIS in line. The Taliban and ISIS are not friends. They are actually enemies. ISIS is essentially motivated to make the Taliban look like it's not in control of Afghanistan.

We want out before that period happens. We don't want to be in the middle of that fight. And yet -- and this is, I think, worth pushing the White House on -- what will be our counterterrorism capabilities in the future? We're all focused on today. There is no question that the exit of the military in the world I'm in, which is homeland security, is going to have an impact on our counterterrorism capabilities.

The administration talks about over-the-horizon visibility. What does that mean? And how will we actually impact that. Those are fair questions, that the administration is going to have to get a new counterterrorism strategy, because whether the Taliban has the motivation or the capability to control ISIS, we just don't know right now.

CAMEROTA: We want to bring in now CNN's Barbara Starr. She is at the Pentagon. She has obviously been listening to everything that Jake Sullivan said.

Barbara, what jumped out at you. And should we ever expect to have real numbers? I mean, I appreciated that Jake Sullivan spelled out why they're not able to give precise numbers and they haven't given precise numbers.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: Yes. That makes sense.

CAMEROTA: That makes sense. That helped to know that Americans hadn't all registered with the embassy when they got there. They didn't know all alert the embassy when they left. Makes sense.

But how will they know when the mission is complete? How will the Pentagon continue its evacuation process and mission?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, the Pentagon is really aiming to be out by that deadline of August 31.

That's what they were working towards, and for good reason. The Taliban don't appear to be willing to agree to any extension. The longer U.S. troops stay, the more risk they are out from ISIS. And this is becoming rapidly a very difficult mission to basically sustain, to provide food, water, sanitation to all the thousands of Afghans that are coming to the airport, trying to get through, so many thousands already on the airfield trying to get flights out.

It's a very, very difficult proposition. So given that, they are going to try very hard to wrap it up. And they have been able at least to ramp up the numbers of people they have been able to evacuate in the last day or so.

[15:05:04]

They may be able to bring in more aircraft, more seats, if you will, on airplanes to get out of the country. It will be a rush to that deadline to see how much they can accomplish. But I think it's really important that serious-minded people in the administration are quietly acknowledging, just right now, there are no guarantees.

BLACKWELL: All right, everyone, stay with us.

We're going to now go to the Pentagon for their briefing. This is Admiral John Kirby.

JOHN KIRBY, CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: -- being there and to doing that for as long as possible.

We're very proud of all the men and women of the department that are assisting in this effort, and truly making a difference on the ground.

And speaking of making a difference on the ground and making a difference through U.S. military capabilities, I do want to now turn the microphone over to General Steve Lyons, again, commander of U.S. Transportation Command. He will have some opening comments, and then we will get to Q&A. I

will come back to the podium and monitor the Q&A, that we have a limited amount of time. The general has obviously got a lot on his plate today. So we will try to keep it moving.

And with that, General, sir, can you hear me and are you ready to go?

GEN. STEPHEN LYONS, COMMANDER, U.S. TRANSPORTATION COMMAND: John, I got you. Can you hear me OK?

KIRBY: Yes, sir, loud and clear. It's -- the floor is yours, sir.

LYONS: Hey. Sure.

And I am pleased to join you today, as well as the press, to talk about TRANSCOM's role in this monumental logistics effort supporting noncombatant evacuation operations.

I just would say that, from the time TRANSCOM received orders to commence deployment, initial elements were airborne in less than three hours. These forces were critical to quickly secure the Kabul International airfield. Simultaneously, we commenced support to NEO operations and continue around-the-clock operations to ensure the safe evacuation of American citizens, our Afghan friends and those cleared by the State Department.

I'm just reminded that the United States is the only nation capable of rapidly deploying forces and providing nonstop airlift operations at this scale.

I'd like to specifically highlight the role of our outstanding air component the Air Mobility Command, led by General Jackie Van Ovost. Air Mobility Command continues to operate the C-17s you see in your news footage.

Less visible, but equally important is their contingency response group operating at the Kabul Airport and a multitude of other forces providing en route support. This incredibly dedicated team of Air Force professionals is the best in the world.

I did have the opportunity this week to speak with the crew, call sign Reach 871, the C-17 flight that carried the 823 Afghans from Kabul to safety. The iconic photo of hundreds of Afghans on the floor of the C- 17 illustrates the desperation, fear and uncertainty of the Afghan people, but also the lifesaving capability and compassion of our military members.

These Herculean efforts underscore the United States' commitment to our Afghan allies and provide them an opportunity for a new beginning, a safer life, and a better future.

To be clear, this is a global effort. I want to thank our many, many coalition partners. We could not be successful without the more than two dozen like-minded nations that expand our global logistics network by providing important access and transit centers. And, finally, I want to acknowledge and thank our industry partners

who routinely provide airlift in support of defense needs. Many of you reported on the secretary's decision to activate stage one of the civil reserve air fleet. And we greatly appreciate the teamwork and contributions of our commercial aviation partners.

Let me just close by saying that, for me, like all of our veterans who served in Afghanistan, this mission is very personal. I assure you that we will not rest until the military is complete, the mission is complete, and we have evacuated Americans who are seeking to be evacuated and as many Afghan partners as humanly possible.

I could not be more proud of the TRANSCOM team, our relationship with U.S. Central Command, and our contribution to this vitally important effort.

And, John, I will be happy to take any questions the press may have. Thank you.

KIRBY: Thank you, General.

We will start with Bob Burns, Associated Press.

QUESTION: Thank you, General.

This is Bob Burns with AP. Thank you very much.

Couple of questions. Currently, what is the -- what is your maximum capacity for airlifting out of Kabul Airport in terms of the number of people you can get out in a single day, based on the aircraft and crews and so forth that you have available to you as of today?

And the second question is regarding fuel. I'm wondering if you could describe how you're managing to keep sufficient fuel on hand at the airport, given the limitations of that facility.

Thanks.

LYONS: Yes, Bob, thanks for the questions.

Let me take fuel first. We do manage fuel. And we are -- we intentionally do not take fuel on, on the ground. So we make sure we have enough fuel to go in and go out without taking fuel lines, we don't stress the logistics posture there.

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And if the legs are longer coming out, we will -- aerial will provide aerial refuel en route if necessary.

We had the last 24 hours, as you saw on the news, more than 10,000, well more than 10,000 evacuees moved, I'm very, very confident that we will sustain that effort and improve that effort, to be honest with you.

And my commitment is to ensure that airlift is never the constraint in this operation. And, as you know and appreciate -- and I have seen your reporting -- I mean, airlift is extremely important, but critical to the throughput is also ground operations.

And we're trying to synchronize that as we go. But we are -- we are clearly razor-focused on clearing the Kabul International Airport of every evacuee that can move.

KIRBY: Tara?

QUESTION: Thank you for doing this, General Lyons.

Could you talk a little bit about the threat that your aircraft are facing as they fly into and fly out of Kabul? We have seen a French cargo plane have to shoot out flares as it was taking off. What are your crews have preparing for? And can you put this in context of other threat environments that your cargo aircraft have had to fly into over the last couple of years?

LYONS: Yes, thank you.

I mean, the threat -- the threat is significant, as you know. I won't get into details. We're closely aligned to CENTCOM and other agencies on threat reporting and potential threat to airlift operations.

I would just say, as we watch that, our crews are the best in the world. That machine, the C-17, is the best in the world. And I'm confident that we're taking the right measures to mitigate the threat and we're connected to the right sources and taking the right kind of measures.

And I will probably leave it at that for reasons -- for good reasons.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) operations. We were discussing earlier today at the briefing about just the one hour on the ground, quick rotation. Can you talk about how you're managing that, how the planes and the crews are managing that?

LYONS: Yes, it's quite remarkable.

We have got a number of planes in the system, but we have twice as many crews. And the idea is to keep those planes moving all the time, either by extending the crew day or preferably by swapping crews and keeping the iron in motion.

And so there's a very -- there's a very tight detailed management system to do that. Critical to that, of course, is what you mentioned, which is ground time. The faster we can turn either load or discharge, the faster we can turn that aircraft.

And we're razor-focused on bringing down -- and I really appreciate the work ongoing in Afghanistan to bring down the time on ground to under an hour.

KIRBY: Nancy.

QUESTION: Thank you. General, can you give us a sense how you perceive the mission changing

as the U.S. draws down a number of ground forces in Afghanistan in the final days of the month, and what the mission will look like, if there is one, post-August 31?

LYONS: Yes, I mean, every day, we take as the day comes. We are -- we are razor-focused on NEO.

We know and are linked very closely with Central Command on potential operations close out the mission by the 31st. That was the direction given by the president. And we're committed to do that.

And my commitment is to ensure that airlift is never the constraint to execute those operations. And we're well-synced with Central Command, have a great relationship, great teamwork.

And so I think we're -- we are pushing the limits to do everything we can to get every single evacuee out of Kabul.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) do you foresee fewer flights in, say, the 28th, 20th, 30th, 31st of the month as there are fewer ground forces, presumably, in Kabul?

LYONS: Well, I would prefer not to get into numbers of flights by day.

I would not say that we're going to let up. We're not going to let up, you know, full accelerator. We're not going to let up. As long as there's a mission to be accomplished, we will be out there.

KIRBY: I forgot to ask you to introduce yourselves because the general can't see you.

So, Courtney.

QUESTION: Hey, General Lyons. This is Courtney Kube calling -- calling -- this is Courtney Kube from NBC News.

You said that you're pushing the limits. Can you just explain a little bit more what you mean by that when you say you're pushing the limits to get as many people out?

And then are you able to kind of give us like a big picture look at how many C-17s and C-130s out of the total Air Force fleet are dedicated to this mission right now, out of the entire U.S. military fleet?

LYONS: Well, it's at -- it's all mobility resources are focused on this, on this effort.

[15:15:00]

There's a number of ways I could cut the numbers that might not be helpful to you, to be honest. Right now, the air component has well over 200 aircraft committed to operations. Some of these are -- even KC-10s are committed to the operation in some way or some fashion. So, when I say -- when I say we're all in, I mean to present -- to

meet the president and the secretary's directive to ensure that every evacuee that is cleared and cleared to move can move.

And our crews are absolutely incredible. I won't lie to you. They're tired. They're probably exhausted in some cases. I know that the leaders from time to time are pulling crews out to make sure we don't have safety issues. But they are motivated, they are fired up, and they are committed to complete this mission.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) ask one more about any COVID mitigation efforts that you're taking.

Are you doing anything to ensure that your crews are safe from COVID? And can you give us a little bit of the detail of what that is, that looks like?

LYONS: Well, it's a great question.

We shouldn't forget that we're doing this operation in the middle of a pandemic. So, all the crews are obviously masking. And -- but the Afghans that are on the aircraft are not masked. So that's one mitigation. There is some screening that occurs before they load.

And then, as we reach the temporary safe havens, these other hubs and lily pads, there are -- there are resources being applied to further test the evacuees upon arrival to these various temporary safe havens.

QUESTION: Are all of your crews vaccinated, or are they getting tested periodically to ensure that they're safe?

LYONS: The vast majority are certainly tested. I can't say conclusively that they all are, although great news today from the FDA. So, pretty soon, they will all be vaccinated.

QUESTION: Gerald Lyons, Jennifer Griffin from FOX News.

Can you talk a little bit more about some of the constraints you face, how you resolved them? And also in the last 24 hours, you have gotten 18,000 or 11,000 passengers out of Kabul, clearing the backlog.

Are you concerned that there are not enough people cleared through into the airport, that you may have to take off with empty planes? Is there any sign that you're having to take off because of that quick turnaround with empty planes?

LYONS: Great question.

Not -- not at this time. And, I mean, we're in contact with CENTCOM constantly. I talk to General McKenzie on a continuous basis, so we're synced up.

And the idea is, we would never want to leave Kabul Airport on an empty plane or even a partially full plane if we can avoid it. So, we are not doing that. As a matter of fact, we're filling the aircraft to about 400, 450 passengers in a floor load configuration. I would just say, to your first questions, it's an excellent question.

Any time that we move this fast in an operation, there's going to be fog and friction. And it's trying to achieve equilibrium in a very large network of not just airplanes, but ground operations and multiple nodes throughout the network.

And so there's -- initially, it's moving quick. You're trying to grow capacity. You're moving as fast as you can. Sometimes, you get a little ahead of yourself, and then it's trying to equalize out and making sure you got a critical path open.

But, again, right now, we will sacrifice the back end of the -- of all the architectural nodes to make sure that we're clearing Kabul International, and that's what we're doing now.

KIRBY: I need to go to the phones. We haven't done that yet.

Stephen Losey?

QUESTION: Hi, Yes, thanks very much.

So, there are the reports about the some of the threats that ISIS has made. And I know (AUDIO GAP) speak about the specific threat environments, but can you talk to us a little bit more about how the military has communicated with the Taliban regarding these threats?

Are you telling the Taliban it's their responsibility to keep ISIS away from the airport? And what happens if ISIS decides to embarrass the Taliban by launching terrorist attacks on the perimeter or the civilians trying to get into the airport?

KIRBY: Stephen, I will take that. That's more appropriate for me, I think, then for General Lyons.

As we have talked about many times over the last several days, we are in daily communication with Taliban leaders outside the airport, sometimes multiple times a day, to, again, deconflict as best as we can and to help ensure a healthy access to the airfield for American citizens in particular.

[15:20:00]

And that communication continues to happen.

We are also mindful of the threat that ISIS poses. And without speaking for the Taliban, I think it's a safe assumption to assume that they too are mindful of that threat,

I won't begin to hypothesize of what could or could not happen. And I think you can understand that, at the podium, we wouldn't get into specific intelligence streams or what we're watching. Nobody wants to see anybody else hurt. And, certainly, nobody wants to see anything that could impact our ability to continue to conduct this evacuation operation.

All I would tell you is, we're focused on this every single day, hour by hour. We're monitoring the threat environment very, very carefully. And, as I said, the communication with the Taliban continues.

So, Laura.

QUESTION: Thank you.

This is Lara Seligman with Politico.

First of all, can you tell us the total estimated cost of the evacuation? And then, also, can you explain the discrepancy between the State and DOD numbers on the number of people evacuated? State is saying 25,000 since the operation began, but Major General Taylor earlier today, I believe he said 37,000. So what is that discrepancy?

KIRBY: The numbers question, I mean, I can't speak -- I don't know -- I don't know where the other number came from.

But I think we're all -- in the interagency, we're all tracking these numbers, the numbers that we put out this morning. You -- I think you saw the White House actually put those numbers out before we did.

So, that 37,000 since the 14th is what we're counting on.

And I will turn it over to the general on your first question. But it's -- whatever the costs are going to be, Laura, are bigger than just the airlift. And I can tell you that we don't have an estimate right now.

Our focus and the focus of the entire interagency is to get as many people out as fast as we can and as safely as we can. And we're not letting cost drive the factor here, cost drive the operation. The operation is driving the operation and the need to do this in a very urgent and orderly way.

But I will turn it over to the general if he has any more data for you in terms of the cost from his perspective.

LYONS: Yes, I couldn't have said it any better than Mr. Kirby just said it.

I mean, we're aware and we're cracking costs, but we're nowhere close to accumulating that data for public dissemination.

KIRBY: And I'm sure, Laura, that when all is said and done, I mean, at the appropriate time, we will certainly be able to provide an overall sense of what the cost is.

I just would add that the real costs that we're focused on now is human life. That's the cost that we're focused on.

Terace.

QUESTION: If I could just -- if I could just follow up, General Lyons, are you concerned about the Taliban's ultimatum that they issued if the U.S. has to stay past August 31 to complete the evacuation?

And what is the plan to protect our forces and the evacuees in that case?

LYONS: Well, again, as I said, we watch the -- all risks and threats very closely.

And I would defer to U.S. Central Command on most of the parts of those questions. We're in direct contact with them regularly, continuously. And then we -- we have our own proxies and defensive measures and techniques, tactics and procedures to take -- to protect our crews and to protect aircraft going in and out.

KIRBY: We got time for two more.

I'm going to Sylvie and then Terace.

Go ahead, Sylvie.

QUESTION: General, Sylvie Lanteaume from AFP.

Can you speak to us about the cooperation with the Turkish forces at the airport? What kind of relationship do you have with them?

LYONS: Yes, I would defer to U.S. Central Command for that question. I would not be able to characterize the relationship on the ground.

I know there is a relationship, but I would not be able to characterize that for you.

KIRBY: Sylvie, remember, the Turks that are on the ground really more of a security perspective, and so it is really more of a Central Command perspective.

And so it really more of a Central Command relationship that they're managing with the Turks every day. The Turks are still there. And, of course, you know at what scale that we're there.

Terace.

QUESTION: Yes. Thank you, John.

I'm Terace Garnier with Newsy.

General Lyons, are medics being provided for each flight? I know there's a concern about capacity because you're trying to get as many people on. But are medics being provided? And the reason why I ask that is because there were reports that a woman had a baby during one of the flights.

And so do you have medics that will be on board that will be able to handle any sort of emergency situations that may come up, if someone has a baby falls and gets sick or something in that instance?

[15:25:06]

LYONS: Yes, it's a great question.

We do not have medics on every flight. There is a medical screen as part of the screening and boarding process. And -- but I will confess to you that many people would have to self-identify any kind of medical issue.

Really exciting. I mean, I really appreciate the news reporting on the baby being born as that flight came into Ramstein.

As a matter of fact, there's actually been more than that. So it's just an incredible, incredible operation ongoing. Just impressive work by our great airmen.

(CROSSTALK)

KIRBY: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: What did he mean by more than that?

QUESTION: More than one baby? How many babies?

KIRBY: They're asking me if there was more than one baby.

LYONS: Well, my last data point was three. I don't have a formal tracker, but those are the -- so, we will keep you posted.

KIRBY: All right, sir.

All right, we will follow up and try to get you information on the other two.

Listen, we got to let the general -- we have to let the general--

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).

General Lyons, we have had -- we have heard some concerns that there wasn't enough food or water for all the evacuees at the airport. Could you just talk about the efforts to fly in more sanitation more, more MREs, more water for those that are trying to flee Kabul?

LYONS: Sure.

Well, you see all those aircraft going in there. And we never want to send an aircraft empty if we can, if we don't have to. So, CENTCOM is managing that. We have got plenty of capacity going in there.

And there is sustainment on those flights coming in that we're taking evacuees out. So, CENTCOM is addressing that issue.

Thank you.

KIRBY: General, we will let you go, unless you have any closing thoughts, anything that you might want to just hit at the end here?

LYONS: Well, John, I just say again thanks for being part of this today. But I -- again, how proud I am of our mobility airmen just operating

around the globe. It's just impressive to see. And everybody is just in this all in, rowing as hard as we can. And we're going to make this happen. I'm absolutely confident of that.

KIRBY: Thank you, General. Thanks for your time today.

Thanks, everybody. We will see you back here mid-morning tomorrow. Thanks very much.

QUESTION: Do you have any updates on the evacuation since this morning?

KIRBY: I don't. No.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE).

KIRBY: Sure. You want -- yes.

BLACKWELL: All right, so you have been listening -- you have been listening to the latest there from the Pentagon.

Heard from Admiral Kirby and General Steve Lyons, who's the head of Transportation Command, saying that they are pushing the limits to get as many people out, 200 aircraft committed to the operation.

Let's bring in now CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem, CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood at the State Department, CNN international security editor Nick Paton Walsh in Doha.

Nick, I want to start with you about who is getting to the airport, into the airport and onto these flights. Now, we know from a U.S. Embassy spokesman there on site who actually told one of our correspondents that Special Immigrant Visa applicants, the Afghans who helped the Americans, are being told not to come to the airport.

But we heard from Admiral Kirby that their applications are being processed through the gates, they're considered for entry. It sounds like a contradiction. Clear it up for us, please.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: I don't think it really is, to be honest.

It's very clear from the sources we have on the ground that Special Immigrant Visa applicants are not being allowed onto the airport as policy. Some may be sneaking on because it's chaos there. There are holes in the fence. There's Afghan security forces letting their friends on at times.

So it's not a cut-and-dry policy by any stretch of the imagination. But, as of this time, they are not being asked to come to the airport. Now, that may change because the piece of good news today, which is presumably why we have seen this message front foot from the administration, is they have managed to get 10, 400 people off in a short period of time, which is quite staggering and remarkable. But it is quite clear that amongst those are not new necessarily

people on that airport. Now, John Kirby parsing his words slightly by saying they're being processed through the gate.

I'm not quite sure what that means. Certainly, people are being processed on the airport, because there's many there. Certainly, 10,000 still remaining Afghans, as far as I'm aware, and being considered for entry means that are they not necessarily actually getting entry.

So there's a very clear effort from the administration to try and confuse the notion of whether special immigrant applicants are being allowed on the airport. Very clear to us that they're not. Wasn't cleared up by Jake Sullivan or John Kirby or the general we just heard from now.

We have literally heard, I mean, an hour or so of administration officials pushing forward their narrative here. And a lot of the key questions we still want answers do have not been answered.