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Biden Not Budging on August 31 Withdrawal from Afghanistan; Pentagon Unclear on Total Number of Americans Evacuated; Taliban Tell U.S. to Change Its Policy at Kabul Airport; Taliban Says it Wants Afghans to Leave Airport and Remain in the Country. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 24, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: John, thanks so much for that. And thank you all so much for joining us. Erica Hill picks up our coverage right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Erica Hill in New York in for Ana Cabrera today.

The window is closing in Afghanistan. President Biden has decided he will not extend that August 31st deadline, meaning America's massive rescue mission will end in just one week.

This morning, Biden spoke with G7 leaders. And soon, he'll update Americans on the operation in Afghanistan with the final days at the airlift now in site, evacuations are surging. 21,000 people were flown out of Kabul on U.S. and coalition aircraft yesterday. That is another single day high. Hundreds of Americans were among the evacuees. The administration though still won't specify just how many Americans do remain in country.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is live at the White House. So, Kaitlan, first of all, this huge decision by the president, what more do we know about it and what do we expect to hear from him on this when he speaks later today?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, he could very well explain his thinking behind this decision because it does not come as a surprise to those in the west wing who knew that a lot of the president's top advisers had been advocating against extending that deadline past August 31st, aware of the security concerns on the ground. That has been something big that they have been monitoring on a daily basis, the potential threat for terrorist attacks given that chaotic situation outside the airport in Kabul. And so that played a big factor into President Biden's decision here to stick with this August 31st deadline to remove all U.S. troops from Afghanistan.

We should note there is a caveat here, as there usually is in a situation like this, where things are incredibly fluid, and President Biden asked the Pentagon for contingency plans in case they do decide to move this past that August 31st deadline. And that is certainly something that is top of mind for a lot of lawmakers. House members were briefed this morning by the defense secretary, Lloyd Austin, and the secretary of state, Tony Blinken. And members from both parties were pushing the administration to extend that deadline, because they don't think it's enough time to get everyone out. Not just Americans because the White House has said multiple times they're confident they can get all Americans out by August 31st.

But their concern seems to be those Afghan allies who worked alongside U.S. forces for the better part of two decades. And the concern is making sure they can get all of them out in a timely manner as well. And so lawmakers said that they have asked the White House to have a contingency plan ready if they are up against that deadline and they're not ready to get everyone else out. But, of course, that comes with a lot of complicating factors as well because of how long it would take the Pentagon to get those troops, to get that weaponry and what's on the ground out of Kabul.

One other thing we should note is this is something we believe President Biden did discuss with G7 leaders on a virtual call earlier this morning. We have not yet gotten a readout from the White House with that. But we likely will when we hear from President Biden this afternoon, Erica.

HILL: All right. We'll look forward to hearing more about that as well. Kaitlan, thank you.

Well, the Pentagon still fairly vague when it comes to the total number of Americans who have made it out of Afghanistan. Take a listen to this exchange just a short time ago between CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr and the Pentagon press secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: My question is can this administration tell the American people how many Americans it has evacuated from Afghanistan? And if you cannot, can you please explain not the denominator --

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: I understand.

STARR: Why can't you just say the number?

KIRBY: Barbara, I think we're just going to leave it at several thousand right now. And I understand that's not a satisfying answer to you. I would tell you that the number literally changes almost by the hour.

STARR: So does everything else.

KIRBY: I understand, Barbara. We're going to leave it at several thousand for right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Barbara Starr joining us now. Barbara, do we have any sense of why we can't get a straight answer on this? Do they not know? STARR: Well, I think the first thing we should say is probably the

press secretary, John Kirby, has been told by the White House not to give a specific number. There's no podium, if you will. White House, State Department, the Pentagon in Washington right now that is talking specific numbers of Americans that have been gotten out of the country.

The public answer you might be able to get is, well, we don't know how many Americans are even there because they don't have to register with the embassy when they come in and they don't have to register when they leave but that really doesn't address the question.

Underlying all of this as we come down to one way or the other to the final days for the U.S. military presence in Afghanistan, there is massive security concern, as Kaitlan referenced. They are going to be doing this in the middle of Taliban forces. They are concerned about an ISIS attack against the airport. And if they're going to go, they need to start packing up, we're told, beginning at the end of this week, actually, to get the 5,800 American troops, their weapons, their gear, out of the country by the 31st while they keep trying to evacuate as many people as they can.

[13:05:10]

So it's going to be a very fraught situation, and especially the last -- think of it this way. The last 48 hours in Afghanistan for U.S. troops, there will be a declining number of U.S. troops there, which means declining security, possibly one way or the other, surrounded by Taliban, knowing that ISIS is out there in Kabul. So there's a lot that they're dealing with right now.

And I think one of the key questions is they are just not going to be able to promise they can get every Afghan out that wants to get out. They hope to get all the Americans, but underneath all of this, an acknowledgment they may not know if there are Americans out in other cities, they may not be able to get to them, they may not be able to get them to Kabul. Indications are they're trying. But in this situation, as we wind it all down, there're just no guarantees. Erica?

HILL: Barbara Starr, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, the Taliban now want the U.S. to change its policy toward Afghans that are currently being evacuated or hope to be evacuated by the U.S. The Taliban now asking Afghans to return home, to not leave the country, especially Afghans with special skills.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Doha, in Qatar. So, Nick, what does this mean? Does this impact the U.S. evacuation plan?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: I have to say the scenes around the airport have been adequately chaotic. It is hard to know if the first time the Taliban have said they would like not to see Afghans leave the country unless, quote, necessary. Essentially, at some point during the press conference suggesting the road was blocked, in fact, that that will most likely, I think, in the days ahead, have an impact on access to the airport.

Though I should say we've seen chaos around it that there appear to be alternative routes that Afghans have been using. There are indications Afghan security forces that are guarding the base are letting on sort of their former colleagues or friends. So, nothing is definite or sort of finite in this. But it is the first time we've had the Taliban simply say Afghans should not be leaving the country.

We also know, too, the Taliban has tightened up security around the airport using a particular brigade loyal to the Haqqani Network, more hard line militants. And that could impact access certainly. Not for Americans, it seems, and there are signs that the alternate routes being discussed were, in fact, U.S. troops perhaps going to get Americans and bring them back.

The real problem now, of course, is a number situation. The U.S. has done an extraordinary job raising their ability to remove people from that airport, 30,000 in 48 hours, quite extraordinary. But do they actually have enough on the airport now to continue that kind of pace? The sound is they have about 5,000, 4,500 now on the base. That could be a number kept at a level as more brought on than taken off. We'll find out the numbers, I guess, tomorrow morning. But, still, it is a huge task potentially ahead of them. It just depends on their appetite before that moment. They have to start thinking about packing up the troops and leaving.

HILL: You know, we're also hearing too, so once they get out, obviously, once people are evacuated, we've been hearing about the strain elsewhere, specifically on the ground. I mean, what are you seeing in Doha? How much concern is there in terms of the conditions there for people who are arriving?

WALSH: Well, we heard John Kirby there talking about how they could be doing better here in Doha with conditions and there have been reports suggesting, frankly, humanitarian issues here certainly. I remember about a week ago there were concerns because of the sheer volume of people turning up here in Qatar, that they weren't able, really, to provide the sort of conditions they wanted to. It was evidently the case, I think, for a while that things were definitely not good here.

I've been reaching out to a lot of Afghans though in just the last few hours who are still on those Qatari bases, and they are mostly, for the most part, reporting improved conditions, although we have to, of course, see if there are exceptions to that.

HILL: Nick Paton Walsh, I appreciate it. Thank you.

I want to bring in now White House and National Security Correspondent for the New York Times, David Sanger, and CNN -- also CNN National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem. Good to have you both with us.

David, you and your colleagues had this deep dive over the weekend looking into how and when key decisions were made by the administration about the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Based on that and also that we learned that Bill Burns met with the Taliban yesterday, today the president sticking with this August 31st deadline going against what the G7 wanted him to do, David, what does this tell you about that meeting yesterday?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, clearly, that meeting was intended in part to work out a way for the United States to safely bring American citizens and these interpreters and other Afghans into the base.

[13:10:00]

And I'm sure he was trying to see if there would be some arrangement after August 31st. It doesn't seem like he succeeded all that much. In some ways, I think they sent Bill Burns not only because he's the CIA director but because he's also one of the nation's most experienced diplomats. He's been an ambassador in Russia and the Middle East and has dealt with Afghanistan for 20 years.

I think the main lesson we're getting out of this is that the administration thought it had the luxury of time to get people out of the country even after American forces were gone back in April, when the president first announced his plan. Of course, they discovered with the collapse of the Afghan government, they had no time.

And now, the president is in the awful position of trying to decide between whether or not you extend the deadline, which apparently is hesitant to go do, and put American troops at risk, or stick with the deadline with the knowledge you're simply not going to get everybody out who you promised could get out. And maybe there's a way for them to do that after the American troops are gone but I'm not aware of what that would be.

HILL: You know, as we look at this, too, it certainly feels like, and from the outside seems, Juliette, that the Taliban really hold all the power here now when it comes to negotiating. The reality is though, as they're eager to show that they are in charge, this is a country that needs a lot to function. Is there anything that you see that the U.S. may have that it can use to its advantage sort of in its own cards it's holding, even if very few, even if it's not able to extend the deadline?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right. So, I'm glad to hear what David said as well, because I think the original take that, oh, we didn't extend it may be more complicated. Look, we're at the sort of non-emotional logistics stage of this. And I know it sounds harsh, but we do now have to recognize we will not get everyone out that we want to. The question is, is how do we maximize getting as many people out as possible while protecting our troops? And that may very well be not extending the deadline.

The reason why is because if you extend the deadline, you are saying to elements of the Taliban that it may not have control of, because there's no reason to believe they have control of their own forces, let alone ISIS and other elements, that the mission may extend indefinitely.

So simply stick to the state, get as many people out as possible today and then worry about tomorrow at another stage knowing that the standard of success both for the Taliban and the United States is not getting everyone out but getting as many people out as you can without any troops. And I think that is the merging of motivations that you may be seeing between the United States and the Taliban right now that may suggest why we are able to get as many people out as possible. We know all the chaos and still not have any troops, knock on wood, that have been killed.

HILL: Yes. And it is important to note it has impressive how much it's ramped up and to your point that there have not been these issues.

The G7 set one condition, asking, David, the Taliban to guarantee safe passage out of Afghanistan after August 31st. What do you think the chances are, David, that the Taliban would not only agree to that but actually uphold it?

SANGER: Well, it's going to depend, as Juliette suggests, on how well we use the one piece of leverage we have, which is that an overwhelming part of the Afghan budget comes from foreign aid, comes from central bank holdings that the Afghan government has outside the country, comes from the willingness of Europe, the United States and others to continue providing aid to the Afghan people.

And so the Taliban are in a different place. They're in a place where they actually have to go govern this country. And that's a more complex issue than it was 20 years ago because people have had 20 years of understanding where their position is in the world and what the rest of the world can do for them. So, they may well be able to trade in the future. I'm sure President Biden is betting on this, access to that money for keeping that flow of Afghans who want to leave going.

And the question is how disciplined are the Taliban to make that happen? What happens to these terror groups that are going to want to interfere with it, not only because they're going after us, but because they're going after the Taliban? So we're about to learn how effective the lure of that aid is.

HILL: We're also about to learn what happens when there is no longer intel on the ground, Juliette. And this is a major concern, I think, even for a lot of Americans watching this. What does it mean for the U.S. and for allies?

KAYYEM: It means a lot. And I think it's disingenuous to say this won't have an effect on our counterterrorism efforts.

[13:15:00]

The White House has talked about what we call over the horizon capabilities. That means, throughout the world, we have counterterrorism capabilities without military boots on the ground, but the absence of them in Afghanistan is significant.

So the question now isn't whether the threat of terrorism increases. It clearly will both with ISIS and Al Qaeda, but whether we can offset the threat with other capabilities. And I think it's worth the administration coming out and saying what those capabilities will be, increased surveillance, increased droning, cooperation with nations around Afghanistan. That is a threat.

And the question is simply, can we offset it in ways that are effective? Maybe not as effective as the option that's no longer available. We just have to accept that, right? We are not going to have military presence in Afghanistan.

And, of course, as you say, as we enter the 20th anniversary month of September 11th, do not -- the idea that we're back to 9/10 is ridiculous and it's being used by political opponents of the president or the decision about Afghanistan. We have had 20 years without a major attack in the United States. That's not nothing and that's because of the troops. And we should be grateful for their presence.

HILL: Juliette Kayyem, David Sanger, I always appreciate your insight. Thank you both.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

SANGER: Thank you.

HILL: We are following breaking news on Capitol Hill at this hour. The House getting ready for a critical vote on that massive $3.5 trillion budget deal after Democratic infighting complete with a late- night expletive filled shouting match, which nearly derailed this critical piece of Biden's agenda. Those details just ahead.

Plus, Dr. Anthony Fauci saying we could get the pandemic under control by the spring, but, and there is a big but.

Stay with us.

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HILL: A key vote on a critical piece of the Biden agenda could now happen at any moment, that's after a Democratic infighting, including a late night shouting match nearly killed it. The vote would advance the massive $3.5 trillion budget resolution deal, which will dramatically expand healthcare, childcare, funding for public education and tackle climate change.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi says Democrats will have the votes when it is brought to the floor. It has been though a fluid situation, to put it mildly.

CNN's Jessica Dean joining us now from Capitol Hill. So, Jessica, House Democrats were swearing at each other behind closed doors last night but now it appears they have the votes to pass this deal?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Erica. It appears right now that are sources are telling CNN that they are on the brink of a deal with the ten House moderates and House leadership and Speaker Nancy Pelosi to get this done. We're told that this could be announced very soon, that they're reviewing final language. So what happens?

Well, we know that those ten House moderates were holding out to get that infrastructure vote done first before they went to the budget. That's the opposite of what Speaker Pelosi wanted. So here's what they have agreed to and that we believe they will be announcing very soon, and that's that they will go ahead and vote on the budget today. They are doing a special thing called deeming the rule, which is procedural. But they are going to do that. And when they vote on that, that will mean that the budget has passed, that they have cleared that legislative hurdle.

Now, in exchange for that, there's also language going in there that House leadership and Speaker Pelosi are going to promise to vote on that bipartisan infrastructure deal by September 27th. And what was like the back and forth, a lot of the back and forth today, was over that date and getting confirmed from leadership that the vote would happen. They had to go back to the Rules Committee. There was a lot of procedural things happening. But it appears that they have gotten to a place now where we can expect to see that vote on the budget coming up in the 2:00 hour, around 2:15 to 2:30, as the day has shown us, Erica, that could certainly slide.

We know some things have changed since last night. As you mentioned, there was a House Democratic caucus meeting, expletives were yelled, there is a lot of frustration within the caucus about the ten moderates that are holding this up. But it went from those expletives being yelled and a lot of frustration to getting to where we are right now, which is that it appears this is going to move forward.

But we do know that President Biden reached out to some of the moderates last night and into today, trying to talk them through this. That date that is getting written into this language, Erica, is really critical for the house moderates. They really wanted that guarantee or as much of a guarantee as they could get that this would be voted on by September 27th.

So, again, keep your eye toward the 2:00 hour right now. That's when we expect this vote will happen. But, again, it could always slide later into the day.

HILL: We'll be watching and I'll be watching the email for any updates from you and your team as we learn more. Jessica, thank you.

Well, my next guest just sat in on two briefings in Afghanistan. He's more or less confident in the administration's decision to stick to the -- is he confident on that decision to stick to the August 31st deadline? Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:00]

HILL: As Pentagon officials were updating the public on Afghanistan this morning, lawmakers were getting a separate briefing behind closed doors. And joining me is one of them, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois. Sir, good to have you with us.

We also, of course, learned this morning the president seems to be sticking with this August 31st deadline. This is the second classified briefing you've received in less than 24 hours. You were very clear with my colleague, Kate Bolduan, yesterday, there should not be any artificial deadlines when it comes to the evacuations of Americans and our Afghan partners.

Based on that and what you've learned in the last 24 hours or so, do you agree with the decision to stick with that deadline?

[13:30:02]