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CDC Study Among Frontline Workers Shows Waning Vaccine Effectiveness Against Delta Variant; Fauci: We Could Return To Normal By Spring If Vaccinations Rise; Afghan Interpreter On Run From Taliban: If They Find Me, They'll Kill Me; Kathy Hochul Sworn In As First Female Governor Of New York; Hochul Promises Fresh Start, Collaborative Approach. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired August 24, 2021 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:33:55]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: A new study from the CDC is revealing some concerning evidence of waning vaccine effectiveness against the Delta variant.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: This study was conducted among 4,000 frontline workers, some of the very first Americans to get those shots.

CNN's senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is here with us.

Elizabeth, this headline totally got my attention because it says that the vaccine effectiveness against the Delta variant drops from 91 percent to 66 percent. That sounds like a very big deal.

DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That is a big deal. So let's, again, take a look at these numbers.

When the CDC followed 4,000 health care workers, frontline workers before Delta, the full vaccination, 91 percent effective. After Delta, 66 percent effective.

There's two things I want to say here. So 66 percent is still a good vaccine. It is still a vaccine that you want to get. However, 91 percent is obviously better. That's why the CDC is encouraging a third shot.

The hope is -- and there's some data that points in this direction -- that a third shot will boost up that 66 percent. That's why the U.K. is doing it. That's why Israel is doing it. So that's the hope.

[14:35:02]

BLACKWELL: Are we expecting people though to wait the eight months with those numbers now that we're seeing 66 percent drop-off?

COHEN: You know, who knows how fast this is going to go, right? It is possible that if they can get through people faster that maybe you won't have to necessarily wait eight months.

But, you know, many of us were vaccinated almost eight months ago. The time is really flying by. But it is possible.

It will be interesting to see that if they get through elderly people, health care workers, all of the first priority groups, will they say, you know what, we have plenty left, come on over even if you were only five or six months ago.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: The situation we are seeing across the country in terms of the red everywhere in cases spiking, I understand it is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And we're in this predicament because so many people were unvaccinated.

However, this explains the breakthrough cases we are seeing, doesn't it?

COHEN: It does explain the breakthrough cases.

So what that data doesn't look at is that data doesn't tell you how sick people got. So, still -- and this is so, so important and I'm glad Alisyn brought it up -- which is that getting vaccinated protects you enormously against hospitalization and severe infection.

That is another reason to get vaccinated if you haven't been already.

It will help keep you from getting infected, not as well as it would have, you know, months ago before Delta came around, but it will also keep you out of the hospital and out of the morgue.

That's really what a vaccine is for.

BLACKWELL: So, Dr. Fauci says there's a good chance that the U.S. could have COVID under control by spring. What has to happen to do that and what does under control look like? What does it mean?

COHEN: You know, under control I guess is sort of the eye of the beholder, right? We would have to sort of ask Dr. Fauci, what exactly do you mean by that?

You know, when I think of under control and when I talk to people about that, what they think of is that you don't have to be so careful about masking, so careful about social distancing, that life will be much more back to normal than it is now.

So life will be back where we thought we were going in June but it didn't quite turn out that way. Maybe we can head that way if Dr. Fauci is right.

But first what has to happen is Dr. Fauci says an overwhelming majority of the unvaccinated people need to get vaccinated.

So let's take a look at how many unvaccinated people there are. Right now, in the United States, when you look at 12 and over, that's

everyone who could be vaccinated, 82 million unvaccinated people. And 29 percent of that eligible population is still unvaccinated.

So, you know, the CDC really needs to figure out how are they going to convince those folks to get vaccinated.

Now, let's take a look at other vaccines. So Moderna and J&J do not yet have full approval. Pfizer got it yesterday.

But everyone is asking, huh, what about Moderna, what about Johnson & Johnson?

So Moderna began to apply for full approval about a month after Pfizer did. So Moderna could have full approval, let's say, maybe a month from now.

Johnson & Johnson hasn't even applied yet for full approval, so who knows if and when that will happen.

But the hope is that if Moderna gets full approval, then we'll have the two main vaccines with full approval. Maybe that will generate more confidence among those unvaccinated people.

CAMEROTA: When I hear Dr. Fauci make a prediction like that, I'm just surprised health officials are still making predictions because there have been so many variables, between new variants, between how many people are going to get vaccinated now.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Maybe we should just get out of the prediction business at this point.

COHEN: I talked to Dr. Fauci sometimes and, I'll be honest, he says, Elizabeth, I'm done with predictions. I guess not completely.

But you have to have a little grace and be unforgiving here. I think what he is getting at is, if we can get the overwhelming majority of people vaccinated, that will make a difference.

When I have heard him and others make predictions, like when they were making predictions, say, eight months ago they were assuming people would actually get vaccinated. No one thought a third of Americans would just say no.

So there were predicting -- they were right about the strength of the vaccine. What they were wrong about was human behavior.

BLACKWELL: Now we are seeing the mandates and calls for more mandates to get vaccinated across the country.

COHEN: Right.

BLACKWELL: Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much.

CAMEROTA: It's great to see you.

More than 12,000 people have been flown out of Afghanistan in the past 24 hours. I think it is more than --

BLACKWELL: Twenty thousand.

CAMEROTA: --20,000, 21,000.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

[14:39:13]

But one person who has not been able to get out, an Afghan interpreter whose story we have been following every day. The latest on his plan to get out, next.

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BLACKWELL: We are waiting for President Biden to speak from the White House and explain his decision to withdraw from Afghanistan by August 31st.

Now, we know the next seven days will be critical for those who are desperate to leave.

Today, the United Nations announced that an estimated 270,000 Afghans have been forced to leave their home since the start of the year.

Now, about 5,000 people are at the airport in Kabul waiting to be airlifted out of the country. So many more are in limbo or in hiding.

Today, the Taliban says that they won't allow Afghans to leave the country.

One Afghan interpreter who has not yet escaped Afghanistan is Haji. We are not showing his face.

He started serving as a translator 10 years ago. And for the last five years he and his wife and their young children have been on the run constantly moving to get away from the Taliban.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAJI, AFGHAN INTERPRETER WHO HELPED THE U.S.: They find me, they kill me and they kill my family because I was interpreter with the U.S. Marines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:45:02]

BLACKWELL: Joining me now is Haji's friend, retired Marine Lance Corporal Jimmy Hurley, who is working to help him reach the U.S.

Also here, Sunil Varghese, policy director of the International Refugee Assistance Project. Thank you both for being with me. We have been looking forward to

having this conversation for a couple of days now.

Corporal Hurley, I want to start with you.

As we hear from the Taliban they're not letting people out. The deadline has been held to by the president. What does that mean for Haji and his family? Have they even reached the airport in Kabul?

JIMMY HURLEY, RETIRED MARINE LANCE CORPORAL: Yes, it is a pretty devastating update. I think it is kind of atrocious and shameful that we're taking directives from the Taliban at this point.

But they have -- they have been in Kabul for about a week and they do have access -- they do have means to get to the airport.

The issue is the entry into the airport. It has changed numerous times in the last week of what the gates are allowing for entry, whether it is U.S. citizens, approved visas only.

And then at one point they were taking people in Haji's scenario where he applied for a visa but had not been approved yet. At this time it sounds like it is U.S. citizens only.

BLACKWELL: And we know the Taliban are running the check points around the airport and that's the challenge, right? Getting first through the check points and then getting through one of the gates.

So what is the probability that he will be able to get that far in the process now that we hear that the Taliban, they've drawn the line in saying no Afghans can leave?

HURLEY: Right. That's the unfortunate part, is it seems like the probability has gone down every day for Haji while he has been waiting to try to get through the gates to the airport.

And the scene in the lines is also chaos. He sends us video every day of the Taliban shooting machine gunfire over the crowds heads, assaulting women in line.

If they see U.S. documents, physical documents in their hands, they will take it and rip it up and tell them not to come back.

So it has been a treacherous path just having -- and his young family. He has several young children. At this time, we're trying not to release the number. But the youngest is 3.

It is a treacherous path we are asking these people take just to get them to safety.

BLACKWELL: Sunil, I can't imagine the back and forth of the guidance, what it means for the people you are trying to help out.

For several days the directive from the U.S. is the special immigrant visa applicants or visa holders do not come to the airport, and now it is open. For people coming from Kandahar, from Herat, what has the back and

forth meant for them?

SUNIL VARGHESE, POLICY DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL REFUGEE ASSISTANCE PROJECT: Right. Well, first, to be clear, as soon as the administration announced that they were going to plan for a withdrawal, we were clear and recommended and told the administration that they need to make sure that an evacuation is part and parcel of that evacuation planning.

But it wasn't. So as soon as those tanks, as our tanks and military rolled out of the provinces, the Taliban put up check points on roads and it became very dangerous to get to Kabul, the only way out. So this isn't a new phenomenon.

We, our organization, the International Refugee Assistance Project, represents hundreds of Afghans, who worked side by side with Americans, who are stuck, and some of them cannot safely get to Kabul.

Many of them are in hiding in Kabul. And the few that are brave enough and are able to get to the airport are really just in a dangerous, dire predicament.

You know, kind of what -- you know, what we're describing here is that while our brave servicemembers are really increasing the number of people airlifted, we are seeing a yawning gap on the ground in terms of logistics in getting people through the airport.

That gap is being filled by Afghans who are just the most resilient, by sheer luck, and just this constellation of congressional advocates, human rights advocates, veterans, veterans organizations, friends, family just stepping up to provide logistics where the American government simply isn't.

BLACKWELL: So, Sunil, we heard from the national security advisor who said that even country. Is it clear how that will be able to happen?

VARGHESE: It isn't clear. We have Americans who are following instructions to stay at home and wait for specific guidance to get to the airport.

And they're following those instructions and trying to figure out when is that plan coming. How long do they stay hidden? Should they brave going to the airport? And if they do, can they get on a plane?

[14:50:08]

So, I would say, no, it's not clear how Afghans who, again, worked side by side with and upon behalf of the Americans for the last 20 years, how will they get to safety once the Americans out of the airport.

(CROSSTALK)

VARGHESE: We just don't know. And it's -- at this point, it's life or death. That's what's got to be clear. BLACKWELL: Yes.

VARGHESE: It's not only that the Taliban are searching door-to-door for people who worked with the U.S. military, but they're looking to slaughter people.

To make -- to convey a message that working for the Americans was wrong and should never happen again. So that's what we're really up against.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

Corporal Hurley, I want to be clear here, as I preface this question, that Haji and his family, those relatives, clearly, that they have the most to lose here. Maybe their lives.

But as we get to this deadline, have you prepared yourself for the possibility that the U.S. will leave and Haji will still be there, what that will mean for you?

HURLEY: Absolutely, that's something we've considered. I think we came into this situation just from the point of getting from his hometown to Kabul and trying to get a fight with the means to get into the airports and different flights he could take, whether it was U.S. government or a nonprofit.

There's always secondary and tertiary plans. It seems the U.S. government withdrawal did not have those in place. But we did for Haji.

I'm not going to go into detail, obviously, of what those would be for him. But we do have backup plans, but they would be even more treacherous in the current situation. So it's definitely not ideal.

BLACKWELL: All right, retired Lance Corporal Jimmy Hurley, and, Sunil Varghese, trying so hard to get some of the Afghans who have worked with the U.S. for many years to some safety.

Thank you so much.

HURLEY: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. The state of New York now has a new governor. For the first time, a female governor. What Kathy Hochul is hoping for as she replaces Andrew Cuomo.

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[14:55:46]

BLACKWELL: Well, for the first time in 10 years, New York has a new governor, and for the first time in the state's history, the governor is woman.

Kathy Hochul was sworn into office twice today, first in a small ceremony at midnight and then again at 10:00 this morning. CAMEROTA: She takes over for Andrew Cuomo, who resigned amid

allegations of sexual harassment and creating a toxic work environment.

CNN's Athena Jones is live in Albany for us.

Athena, what is Governor Hochul's message today?

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. Well, at the ceremonial swearing in this morning, where her family was able to attend, we heard now-Governor Kathy Hochul talking a lot about how her administration is going to be different.

She talked about a new day in Albany, talking about how she wants to have a collaborative approach to governing and saying, I want people to believe in their government again.

Take a listen to some of what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): Changing the culture of Albany. And that's why I'm looking forward to a fresh collaborate passive approach. That's how I've all conducted myself. That's nothing new for me.

I'll be heading to a meeting very shortly with our leaders here. We have much to discuss.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So after that ceremonial swearing in, she had a meeting with the top leaders, legislative leaders here, the speaker of the state assembly and the Senate majority leader, to talk about a number of issues.

We had a -- we heard a briefing from the Senate majority leader who said they talked a good deal about combatting COVID. That is Kathy Hochul's number-one focus, combatting COVID, and also helping the state recover economically from the effects of the COVID pandemic.

So we know that they spoke specifically about getting more direct aid to New Yorkers. There's been a lot of focus on avoiding evictions. So rental assistance to both renters and to landlords.

Also getting money to people who were left out of earlier aid tranches, like those who were undocumented.

And again, this idea that she's going to bring 1,000 percent culture change to Albany. She spoke about her relationship or what she expects her relationship to be with Mayor Bill De Blasio of New York City.

We know that Governor Cuomo and Bill De Blasio had a contentious relationship.

Governor Hochul saying they're going to have a collaborative relationship. There won't be any blindsiding going on. We also know she spoke last night with President Biden, who, of

course, pledged his support to her administration.

And we're looking to see what announcements she makes in the coming days, for instance, about lieutenant governor -- Victor, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Athena, it will be interesting to watch what this new era brings to New York.

Thank you very much.

All right. We have some breaking news on Afghanistan, as President Biden decides to stick with that August 31st deadline for withdrawal. What that means for the thousands of people still trying to get out.

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