Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

House Democrats End Tense Standoff, Starting To Vote On $3.5 Trillion Budget; Women In Afghanistan Face Uncertain Future With Taliban Control; White House Briefs On Afghanistan Evacuations; Biden Asked For Contingency Plans In Case Deadline Can't Be Met. Aired 3:30- 4p ET

Aired August 24, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: A key vote in the House on a critical piece of the Biden agenda is happening right now. Last night, infighting between moderate Democrats and House leadership delayed this procedural vote on three major things. The bipartisan infrastructure plan, the Democrats' sweeping budget resolution, and the voting rights bills. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she's confident that all three will pass.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Congressional correspondent Ryan Nobles joins us now. Ryan, they have started voting. Put what's happening now into context.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Victor and Alisyn. This is a series of two votes that the House is taking up right now.

[15:35:00]

We expect them to be along party lines. But as it stands right now, the House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, believes that she has the votes to get this stage of the reconciliation package, that $3.5 trillion human infrastructure package on to the next phase of negotiations.

And they're going to vote it all into one big package. They basically combined the rule on this legislation, along with its final passage, which means that that will be enough to satisfy this stage of the reconciliation process.

Now, all this means is that the House has agreed to the top-line number of the budget, that $3.5 trillion. They will now negotiate over the next month as to exactly what's going to go into that package before it actually gets to the stage of being voted on and finalized.

But this is of course directly connected to that bipartisan infrastructure deal that's already been passed in the Senate. House progressives and the Speaker, Nancy Pelosi have said that they're not passing that bipartisan deal until they know that reconciliation package is going to be passed.

And that's what led to this dustup between moderate Democrats. There's a group of ten moderate Democrats who have said that they weren't going to vote for the budget to be moved forward without that bipartisan package. The deal that they've negotiated is that they have a guarantee now by the House leader Nancy Pelosi, that that bipartisan package will be voted on by the end of September, September 27th. So that essentially puts a clock on this process of getting the final budget deal hashed out.

This was not easy for the House Speaker. There were a lot of strong words that were passed around between the moderate members and the rank-and-file Democrats that wanted to see this process move forward. This has been a tension rod, Victor and Alisyn. That's the best way to describe it. You can't have one without the other. And at any point, if you let that tension go, the whole thing could fall apart.

That almost happened here over the last 24 hours, but it looks as though they're going to be able to get to the next stage.

BLACKWELL: Yes, we have certainly seen the push and pull. Ryan Nobles for us there, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Now to this. What is the future for women in Afghanistan? Next, a journalist who's been speaking to women about their experiences already, just in the past week, with the Taliban. What those women stand to lose and what can be done to help them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:00]

CAMEROTA: What will happen to the women and girls left behind in Afghanistan? Today, the United Nations announced it has, quote, harrowing and credible reports of civilian executions and restrictions of women's rights under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Zahra Nader is a journalist who has reported extensively from Afghanistan. She contributes to the Fuller Project, a global nonprofit newsroom that reports on issues affecting women. And she just co-wrote an article for "Time" called "What Afghanistan's Women Stand to Lose."

Anushay Hossain is a journalist, political analyst and author of the new book called, "The Pain Gap" and she just published a new piece in Medium titled "Afghan Women and Children Will Pay the Highest Price."

Ladies, thank you so much for being here. Anushay, I want to start with you, you say you're infuriated by what you've been watching this past week in Afghanistan. What part is infuriating?

ANUSHAY HOSSAIN, JOURNALIST, POLITICAL ANALYST AND AUTHOR: Alisyn, first of all, thank you so much for having me.

And yes, I'm infuriated, but I am also terrified. You know, retaliation for 9/11 may have been the official reason for the U.S. invasion but let us not forget that it was Afghan women's plight that was exploited to win the PR and optics battle for this war.

We have a moral obligation, Alisyn, to the women and girls of Afghanistan who we have paid lip service to for the past 20 years. And the message that we must send to the world is that women's rights are nonnegotiable. We know that Afghan women politicians, leaders, women activists, they will not be safe. Their lives will not be safe in the Taliban's Afghanistan.

CAMEROTA: Zahra, you've been talking to some of those women this past week. And what are they telling you?

ZAHRA NADER, JOURNALIST, CONTRIBUTES TO THE FULLER PROJECT: Thank you for having me here. I talked to many women across Afghanistan. They work in different professions like journalist, teachers, NGO workers. I can start telling three stories of these women that are living currently in Afghanistan.

I talked to a prosecutor, a 32-year-old prosecutor. She has a bachelor in law. She has an M.A. in criminology. And she worked very hard to get a job in Afghanistan's Attorney General office. She's one of the like few women working in that organization.

And since the Taliban took over, she is living in hiding with two of her children. Even, she was telling me, even if the Taliban spare her life, the criminals she helped put in jail would not. They would come after her and her life is in danger. And now she lost her job, she lost her hope for the future.

Also, I talked to another woman. She's a NGO worker in Kabul. She has worked for women's rights in the past seven years across Afghanistan, not only in Kabul. She was telling me that she's frustrated that she already rejected two offers to leave Afghanistan, because she had a vision for her country. She had a vision for a better future for her country. And now all of that collapsed for her and she cannot even -- like her job is closed. She has lost her social life, with friends. She cannot even go out.

But still, she is resisting. She's going out, even to take a walk, to invite her friend for an ice cream, to just, you know, to spend time outside. And that's an act of resistance that she's doing.

[15:45:00]

I also talked to a woman in northern Afghanistan. She was telling me that she is one of the few women who worked -- who went to university, worked as a teacher, and now she lost all.

CAMEROTA: Anushay, I mean it's as though these 20 years didn't happen. It sounds like for these women, that Zahra is describing, it's just all been erased. It was all a dream these past 20 years where they were able to build their careers and they were able to experience freedom.

And so, what's the answer? What are you calling on President Biden or the United States' State Department to do?

HOSSAIN: The Biden administration cannot accept a deal that recognizes the Taliban government. In the past, the U.S. has refused to recognize the Taliban government, because of pressures of international organizations and international and domestic U.S. women's rights organizations. Because of its brutal treatment of women and girls.

We have to understand, Alisyn, what is the message we are sending to girls around the world? I have two daughters at home. What is the message that we are sending them? That women's rights are disposable? That the U.S. will leave.

That when Afghans are running on to the tarmac, trying to get on that American plane to get out of Afghanistan, we will leave them behind? That is an unacceptable message. And we all have blood on our hands, Alisyn, if we allow that to happen. Not just America, but also our allies.

CAMEROTA: Zahra, I know you have been talking as you said to women, and I just want to read some of the quotes that you used in "Time" magazine.

This was a 30-year-old woman says, the U.S. is taking back what it gave us. What happens to women? We feel we have lost everything.

Another woman told you, with the Taliban back in power, everything will die for women. All that I have worked for, all of my dreams have become zero, multiplied by more zeros.

And this isn't just their fear, we should say. I mean you also have reporting that some women have disappeared already. The Taliban is already going door to door. What's happening when women have to confront the Taliban at their door?

NADER: Probably it would be, you know, death, so far, I'm talking to them, many of them are worried for being taken, like as sex slaves. And we have had like reports about Taliban taking women. We that force them to marry them, their soldiers, and take them away. So, we have hear those news, which is very, very terrible for women living in Afghanistan right now.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Zahra, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I apologize, and I wouldn't be doing it, except that the White House is briefing right now on Afghanistan.

So, we want to go to Jen Psaki right now and hear what she's saying about all of this.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: ... their departure will be able to reach the airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) ... the statement they just put out about a half hour ago, about the August 31st deadline and sticking to it. The president has, from allies both here at home and abroad, have wanted him to push that deadline back some. And also, critics of the president are speaking out very strongly on this decision.

What do you say to those who are criticizing that the president, by sticking to this deadline, it amounts for him to capitulating to the Taliban?

PSAKI: Well, first, and I think -- I'm just going to read the statement. I know a number of you have seen it, but just in case, because I think it has quite a bit of additional context that is not exactly aligned and, you know, he's stuck with the deadline, as you just conveyed.

During a meeting this morning with the G-7 leaders, the president conveyed that our mission in Kabul will end based on the achievement of our objectives. That is a key component there.

He confirmed we are currently on pace to finish by August 31st. As you all know, in the last nine days, we have effectively helped evacuate 57,000 people. And that has continued to escalate the number of people we're getting out each day. And our focus is -- and continues to be on evacuating Americans who want to come home, third-country nationals and Afghans who were allies during the war.

He also made clear that with each day of operations on the ground, we have added risks to our troops with increasing threats by ISIS-K. And that completion of the mission by August 31st depends on continued coordination with the Taliban, including continued access for evacuees to the airport.

In addition -- as we noted in the statement -- he asked the Pentagon and the State Department for contingency plans to adjust the timeline should that become necessary.

So, I think there's quite a bit of context in there, including the threat from ISIS-K, which is quite real, and one that we are tracking and monitoring very closely from our national security and intelligence teams, to the continued cooperation of the Taliban as it relates to getting American citizens and our key allies on the ground to the airport.

And the third, of course, is ensuring that we have contingencies, should they be needed. So, I think those are pretty important caveats in the reporting.

Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you do have to adjust the timeline, how long are you talking about?

PSAKI: I'm not going to get ahead of any contingency plans that are drawn up by the State Department.

[15:50:00]

The Defense Department, as you all know, the president has been meeting and attended and participated in briefings with his national security team once a day sometimes twice a day. Is in constant and regular contact and I suspect we'll get some updates in short order.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when do you need to start pulling troops out of the Kabul airport to meet the August 31 target?

PSAKI: It's a great question, Steve. I just don't want to get into operational details that are under the purview of Department of Defense. Go ahead.

But you are correct, I will note that there would have to be time in advance of the 31st or time in advance of whatever the date is in order to do that. But they can give you the operational details. Go ahead.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So, does that mean that the evacuations will stop before the actual 31st so then there is time to get the troops and their machinery and weaponry out of there?

PSAKI: That would be correct, yes, that there would need to be time to wind down the present.

I will note though that the purpose of this statement is to provide additional context of what the president conveyed to the G-7, which includes a number of very key components as he assesses day by day.

And that includes the threat of ISIS, which is of great concern, understandably to the president, given the threat it poses to our military who are on the ground serving proudly and bravely on the ground.

It also includes the essential aspect of having the Taliban's coordination continue over the coming days so we can facilitate as many people as we've been getting out.

COLLINS: And so, what I read from this statement is he has not ruled out extending the deadline. Is that right?

PSAKI: Well, he asked for contingency plans but believes we continue to be on track to accomplish our mission.

COLLINS: And one more question, I'm sorry, I know it's very -- does this mean if he does stand by this August 31st deadline that every single U.S. troop will be out of Afghanistan by August 31st?

PSAKI: Again, I will leave it to the Department of Defense to get into operational details. As you know and as I've noted, he is meeting with his national security team every single day often more than once a day to continue to discuss, and as I noted also in this statement, he's asked for contingency plans. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please Jen, just to follow up on all those question, so are you saying that despite this threat by the Taliban to stop Afghans from boarding planes, that you're not seeing any slowdown in Afghans being able to get to the airport if they need to?

PSAKI: I'm conveying that what we have articulated is that Afghans, not every -- there are millions of Afghans, as we know, who want to leave the country, or a large number of Afghans who want to leave the country. I think that's safe to say. What I am talking about is the individuals we have prioritized, those who have fought alongside us who are eligible for Special Immigrant Visas, who otherwise we are facilitating their departure. And that our expectation is that they will be able to reach the airport. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, I'm just trying to figure out if the Taliban

has made good on this threat yet. It sounds like you're saying they haven't.

PSAKI: I don't have an update on that. I'm just conveying to you what our expectation is and what we are continuing to communicate directly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then is the CIA Director now the chief negotiator for the U.S. in Kabul, and how long does he plan to stay there?

PSAKI: I certainly understand your question. I refer you to the CIA on any specific questions about his location or specific role.

Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For a little bit of clarity because minutes and hours matter here.

PSAKI: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we talk about August 31st, is the understanding between the U.S. and the Taliban that that ends at midnight at the end of August 31st Afghan time, American time? Is it the end of the 31st, when exactly is the deadline as it currently exists?

PSAKI: It's really a great question and I want to give you a very clear and articulate answer from the team on the ground so I'll just have to get back to you on that to make sure we give you the accurate information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the last -- I know that you're continuing to do this actively --

PSAKI: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- as you indicated to one of my colleagues a moment ago. Obviously, there is going to be time needed to be able to get out the American troops and others who are helping facilitate this process. What is the last call for Americans on the ground there to come to the airport at Kabul?

PSAKI: We are in touch with Americans directly, and we have contact with and I can give you an overall assessment of where we stand with that if that's helpful as well, but I'm not going to give you more of an articulation of that from here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are there any active threats. You talked about in that statement the threat that's posed by ISIS-K. But are there any active threats right now to Kabul to HKIA right now?

PSAKI: I'm not going to give you an intelligence assessment form here either, but I can convey to you that we have increasing concerns about the threats and that is certainly a part of the president's assessment and decision making. Go ahead. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Jen, is there any concern that maybe

trying to reach this deadline and get everybody out, mistakes are being made now that there is a report that at least one of the Afghans evacuated to Qatar has suspected ISIS ties.

PSAKI: Well, first I would say we have a stringent vetting process which includes background checks before any individual comes to the United States. So, I can't speak to one individual, but I can tell you and confirm for you that we take the vetting of any individual who comes to the United States and comes out incredibly seriously. And it's an extensive process.

I would say that this is now on track, Peter, to be the largest airlift in U.S. history.

[15:55:00]

So, and that is bringing American citizens out. It is bringing our Afghan partners out. It is bringing allies out. So, no, I would not say that is anything but a success.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK and I know that you said yesterday it's irresponsible to say that Americans are stranded in Afghanistan right now.

What do you say to the American citizens in Kabul that Fox spoke to this morning, her name is -- she's going by Fatima, she says we are stranded at home for four days, three days, we didn't hear anything from anywhere and they're saying to go to the airport but we're not being given clear guidance, our emails are getting ignored.

PSAKI: Well, why don't I convey to you exactly what we are doing. And I think what's important to note that I also said yesterday in the full context of my answer, which I put out today, was that we are committed to bringing Americans home who want to leave, and that is the president's commitment. So let me explain to you how our process works, and there have some very good questions including from you and others about this.

One, as we've said this is a dynamic number. We're working hour by hour to refine and make it precise. Understand your desire and interest in having exact number of American citizens on the ground and the State Department I expect will have an exact update on that tomorrow.

Just to remind you, the U.S. government does not track our citizens when they travel around the world. We rely on self-reporting. Not just in Afghanistan, anywhere in the world. People have to decide to register or not. It's up to them. Individuals whether they decide to register or not. Wherever they may be. And if you register when you're in a country like Afghanistan, you aren't required to deregister.

The State Department also issues alerts. They have publicized phone number and email to contact if you're in Afghanistan and want assistance to leave. And for months the department has been telling Americans to leave

Afghanistan for their own safety. It is our responsibility and our role to work with and help American citizens who want to leave.

Let me finish, I'm almost done and then you can ask a follow-up question.

In recent days, they have reached out to every American citizen registered in Afghanistan directly multiple times. This is a 24/7 operation. Embassies all over the world are supporting phone banking, text banking, and email efforts.

If we are not in touch with this individual, give me their contact information and we will get in touch with them. If any of you are hearing from American citizens who can't reach us, give me their contact information and we will get in contact with them.

Our estimate of the overall number of American citizens who are there can increase because folks are just now responding to our outreach who may not have registered. It can also decrease because people leave, they don't tell us they leave, or individuals who may reach out and convey they have the documentation needed don't.

So, there are a range of factors here, and it's our responsibility to give you accurate information. That's what our focus is on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you say no Americans are stranded. This is someone in Kabul who says I am stranded. So, is there a better word for somebody who can't leave the house to get to the airport because Jake Sullivan says ISIS is outside the airport?

What if --

PSAKI: I would welcome you providing their phone number and we will reach out to them today. And I can assure of that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The final question. If the Taliban said that staying past the 31st was going to provoke a reaction, and then President Biden decides, OK, we won't stay, do they have the same kind of influence over military planning as the commander in chief?

PSAKI: Well, first of all, Peter, the Taliban's deadline was May 1st, struck in a deal with the prior administration.

The president's timeline was August 31st. That's the timeline he set. And a period of time he needed in order to operationalize our departure from Afghanistan.

I'd also note that as I said as we conveyed in the statement that our objective and our focus and the focus of the commander in chief is always going to be on the safety and security of the men and women who are serving our country in the military. And that has to be a factor here and that certainly is a factor for him as he thinks about the timeline. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can President Biden assure that Afghan allies that helped the military will be able to get out? And will he extend a deadline to help those people get out?

PSAKI: Well, I will say that we will certainly have additional folks eligible to come to the United States after August 31st that we will help relocate.

But I would also note that we have now evacuated 58,700 people in the last nine days. And we are continuing to be in direct contact with eligible special immigrant visa applicants, of course with American citizens and with individuals who we are working to facilitate the departure. So, our focus is on getting the job done by August 31st. and that's what we're doing day to day at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And secondly on the --

BLACKWELL: You have been listening to Jen Psaki there, the White House Press Secretary explaining that the administration is committed to getting Americans out.

We just learned from a senior State Department official that 4,000 American passport holders and their families have been evacuated from the country. But it's hard to put that number in context.

CAMEROTA: One of the biggest headlines I thinks she just said is that it is our expectation that those who have fought alongside the U.S. are still able to get to the airport. We shall see.

BLACKWELL: We'll have more with THE LEAD with Jake Tapper right now.