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COVID Cases Surging in U.S.; Afghanistan Withdrawal. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired August 25, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:09]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: And I'm Victor Blackwell.

Any minute now, we're expecting to hear from Secretary of State Antony Blinken on the evacuation mission in Afghanistan.

Now, a source tells CNN there are 4, 100 Americans, U.S. citizens still actively trying to get out. A U.S. defense official says security concerns around the Kabul Airport are heightened, though, with fears of a planned attack against the crowds there.

Now, this is based on, we're told, very specific threat stream from ISIS-K, a self-proclaimed branch of the terror group that first emerged in Syria and Iraq.

Now, the president acknowledged the threat in his national address yesterday, and the Pentagon reiterated that the mission is to get out as many people as possible as soon as possible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. HANK TAYLOR, VICE DIRECTOR FOR LOGISTICS, THE JOINT STAFF: Every 39 minutes yesterday, a plane departed Kabul Airport. These numbers are a testament to the hardworking and brave service members carrying out this mission.

In the past 24 hours, five flights landed at Dulles International Airport with approximately 1, 200 passengers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, this is a split-screen moment, on the left side of your screen, the success, almost 88,000 people evacuated since July, according to the White House, 19,000 in the past 24 hours alone. It is considered one of the biggest airlift missions in U.S. history.

But on the right side of your screen, or fully on your screen now, the tragedy. A senior administration official tells CNN that a lot of deserving Afghans will be left behind, tens of thousands. Many who helped the U.S. in this 20-year war may now become targets of the Taliban. And that same official says it is inevitable.

So we have a team of reporters and analysts to help us understand where we are in this crucial mission.

BLACKWELL: Let's begin with CNN's chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins.

All right, six days to go until that deadline, what does the administration say about the next steps?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that the actual evacuations, Victor, won't even go that long.

They are expected to ends days before that deadline actually happens, because, remember, those thousands of U.S. troops on the ground still need time to actually pack up their gear and be able to leave as well. And that is something that is also raising security concerns inside the White House, knowing that, as that troop presence gets smaller, the risk to those troops on the ground could get higher as the situation grows more desperate since this window for evacuations is closing.

And, of course, right now, top of mind for the White House is getting all of the Americans who want to leave Afghanistan out of Afghanistan. And that is why President Biden has asked the secretary of state, Antony Blinken, to give us a detailed update in the coming moments on how many Americans they have gotten out so far and how many they believe are still there in Afghanistan wanting to leave.

And, according to Jake Tapper, the State Department has told lawmakers they believe there are about 4, 100 Americans still in Afghanistan who are actively seeking to leave Afghanistan and either return to the U.S. or somewhere else.

Of course, that is with those six days left to actually hit that deadline to have all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan. We did hear from the Pentagon this morning. They said about 4, 400 Americans have been evacuated from Afghanistan so far. That's an increase of about 400 people from when the Pentagon last updated us on that number yesterday.

So this is a big question, because President Biden has said every single American who wants to leave Afghanistan will be able to leave by the 31st. He has said he will keep U.S. forces there until all of those Americans who want to leave are home.

And so that is going to be a big question for the White House of what that number looks like, because Jake Tapper's reporting is that these 4, 100 who are in Afghanistan are not necessarily all in Kabul, right where that airport is and where those thousands of U.S. troops are.

So that's going to be a big question of how confident they are they can get those remaining 4, 100 who want to leave back home.

CAMEROTA: Yes, that's a higher number than I think we had believed even yesterday, the 4, 100 that Jake is reporting. So we will find out what the plan is for them.

Kaitlan, thank you.

The Pentagon says the Kabul Airport was swamped today with at least 10,000 people. This is new video that we have showing the crowds swarming the building in an effort to escape.

So, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Qatar, where thousands of Afghans are being flown.

Nick, what is the situation in Qatar right now?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Well, certainly, at the airport in Kabul, we are seeing extraordinary levels of people at the gates, remarkable video as they try to use that last few hours' window to get onto the airport.

Now, I understand from a source familiar with the situation they had about 1,000 people in the airport this morning. That has swollen to 10,000, according to the Pentagon, which seems to make some sense to the source I was speaking to, because there's been minimal air traffic. We have seen extraordinary levels over the past few days, but apparently it lulled a bit this morning.

[14:05:07]

The question really is, how can they get the people they know they need onto the airport onto the airport? I understand it's becoming incredibly hard to pick specifically SIV applicants out of the morass of people of the crowds at the gates because of the intensity of people there.

Chaos was how one source described it. There are, of course, other avenues in that we've been hearing about through who you know essentially you may be able to get an escort with the Taliban to the Southern gate, then cross over into the U.S. side, if that's coordinated. And there are people simply getting on through who they know and their own ingenuity.

The Taliban say they will stop some, but it doesn't appear to have universally blocked traffic. And, certainly, that number from 1,000 to 10,000 shows people are getting on.

Jake's reporting suggesting there are 4, 100 still out there for the U.S. to potentially collect, you have to wonder, what have they been doing over the last two weeks if they genuinely want to depart the country? We have heard of U.S. troops at times going out in very secretive missions the details of which we don't know too much of to retrieve American citizens.

I understand, as of last night, I think it was, there were a few hundred that were brought in over that period of time. So they have slowed in their number. But given the Biden administration's priority to take American citizens out, that could prolong this operation, potentially. But I have to be honest with you. All we're hearing at this point is

the window narrowing, the evacuation task getting harder, the people they want to get on being hard to find at times, the Taliban intensifying their positions around and away from the airport.

And also today, I heard from a source familiar with the situation that the Australians, Canadians and Italians have begun their wholesale departure from the airport, so NATO allies packing up too.

This is all moving very fast. And it's moving out of the airport, rather than necessarily about expanding their presence there. They're capable, it seems, of extraordinary airlifts on a 24-hour basis we have seen over the past few days.

The question is, how do they fulfill the numbers of people for those planes? And how do they choose the right ones?

BLACKWELL: Yes, and how long evacuations go, as they have to now take out their personnel and their resources.

Nick, let me stay with you.

The Afghan -- the Taliban has been promising to Afghan women, to the international community a new day for women in Afghanistan, but there is this new warning from the Taliban for women. Explain that.

WALSH: Yes, it's confusing, but also troubling.

Essentially, the Taliban have said, look, better if you women stay home from work if you work in the government until we have worked out how to train our security personnel, essentially Taliban militants, to treat you properly.

Now, there are some Taliban advocates who are saying this is just them trying to ensure safety, a temporary measure, but there are Taliban critics who are saying this is the thin end of the wedge and then, in the weeks ahead, the training never happens, and, essentially, they're basically warning women to stay away from the workplace.

They wouldn't really if they came, I would imagine, be equals to men in those situations. But there are many who have long said that the Taliban's methodology is to arrive, to be pleasant, to impose the remarkable calm and order they have done on Kabul, where many people say it's frankly being more disciplined than it has for some time, but then you slowly hear stories of people being robbed, or instance against journalists or anecdotes begin to build.

And the fear is that, as the months go by, we see the repressive society of the '90s returning to Kabul. The jury is still simply out on all of this. And there are U.S. officials who have for months suggested that this is a reformed Taliban that need international recognition, that need the U.N., that need aid.

But then there are some who've lived amongst them who say these are the same people who are going to do the same thing, and that that other opinion is simply naive. BLACKWELL: Now, we have also been told that the first few hundred

troops have left Kabul International Airport, of course, signals the upcoming shift from Afghan evacuation to U.S. troop withdrawal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: If you're an evacuee that we can get out, we're going to continue to get you out...

QUESTION: On the 31st?

KIRBY: Right up until the end.

But in those last couple of days, we're going to try to preserve as much capability as we can on the -- at the airport, as you might imagine. So, in those last couple of days, we will begin to prioritize military capabilities and military resources to move out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon for us.

Oren, it sounds like the stakes are getting even higher now.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Of course.

And that's simply the crunch time of the last six days at this point until the end of the month, President Joe Biden signaling that there may be some attempt and contingency plans in case they want to shift that deadline, but all indications right now are that they're aiming for August 31.

And it looks like it'll take pretty much until the very last minute to finish not only the evacuation efforts, but also the withdrawal of U.S. forces.

The first few hundred troops have begun to come out. Crucially, a defense official says this does not affect the evacuation mission. These are essentially people who are no longer required as part of that effort, headquarters staff, maintenance, the troops that could come out as the effort continued at full pace to get out as many people as possible.

[14:10:10]

And we see those numbers continuing, right up around 20,000 for a second day in a row. And that's where the focus remains. But with only six days left, that has to begin to shift.

And it won't be sort of a line of chalk or a line in the sand where on one side is evacuation and on the other side is withdrawal. It will be a transition. As the ability shrinks to pull out more and more Afghans, it has to grow to get out the remaining 5, 800 or so U.S. troops that remain in the country.

And it's not only a question of troops. It is also a question of equipment. The priority right until the very end is security. That'll be the focus of those last troops. You would have to imagine there'll be air support up above as those last troops are coming out, because it becomes more and more difficult to secure those troops as it gets closer and closer to August 31.

BLACKWELL: Oren, we have learned that these two congressmen, Seth Moulton, Peter Meijer, who traveled to Afghanistan, the secret visit. The Pentagon says they had no idea about this.

Do we know if it -- their presence affected the evacuation mission?

LIEBERMANN: Certainly, any time you have to U.S. lawmakers on the ground in Kabul, it'll require its own security effort, its own logistics effort once they're on the ground and, frankly, once the Pentagon knows that they're incoming.

So that pulls away from the core mission here, which is not only the evacuation of Afghans, but the security around the airport, to make sure the evacuation can continue.

But did it do so in a large way? I think you can look at the numbers and say, although it pulled from the effort and it was a distraction, it didn't pull too much away from the evacuation effort, the numbers not quite what I think was the 21, 600 numbers from yesterday, but not very far off those at all.

CAMEROTA: OK, Oren Liebermann, Nick Paton Walsh, Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much for all of the reporting.

Now let's get analysis on where we are.

CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier is a columnist for "TIME" magazine. CNN military analyst Colonel Cedric Leighton is an Air Force veteran. And CNN counterterrorism analyst Phil Mudd is a former CIA official.

Great to see all of you.

Colonel, I want to start with you, because, as we just heard, the stakes are getting higher. I don't know if we knew that there were 4, 100 U.S. citizens that still need to get out of Afghanistan at this late date. We have six days left.

And at the same time, we're hearing from our U.S. officials a very specific threat stream from ISIS-K planning to attack the crowds outside of the airport.

As a longtime intelligence officer, as you were, what do you do with that information once about a specific threat?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Alisyn, what you end up doing is, you make sure that you're constantly following that intelligence target that is giving you that information. And you're also seeking new intelligence sources to try to find out exactly what they're saying, how they're saying it. You hope that the national agencies are providing all the data that they have that pertain to your particular operation. So, if you are the intelligence officer on the ground in Kabul right now, you're getting streams of information from not only your tactical capabilities, but also from national overwatch capabilities.

And that's the kind of thing that you then use to brief the commander on scene to make sure that he or she knows exactly what's going on as best as you can. And that is, quite frankly, one of the most intense missions that a military intelligence officer can have felt.

BLACKWELL: Phil, let me come to you.

Now we know these 4, 100 are still in the country, not all in Kabul, not in or around the city. If we know that there is this threat from ISIS-K, and you have got Americans who are trying to get to the airport, are there likely more missions than the Pentagon obviously is going to tell us to try to get to those Americans, instead of asking them to come through that threat to get on to the airfield?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Boy, there's a couple things going on.

First of all, to answer your question, I sure hope there are. Look, you don't want to tell the people on the ground, including ISIS-K -- that is Khorasan, the ISIS people in Afghanistan -- the nature of the operations, the pace of the operations, what time of day they're happening, where they're happening.

Those people have car bombs. They have backpack bombs. They potentially have things like rocket-propelled grenades that could cause tremendous havoc in these evacuation operations. So, I sure hope they're not telling us 90 percent of what they're doing.

There is another closing piece of this, Victor, that I think is really interesting. We are not going to get all these people out, not. It ain't happening by August 31. We're not talking enough about the visit of the CIA director to Kabul a few days ago.

I have got to believe that part of that conversation was not only about the August 31 deadline. It is about what happens if you find American citizens who are on the ground after August 31. And is there some ability for the CIA director to communicate with the Taliban to say, we need to get those people out?

[14:15:00]

September is important, not just August 31.

CAMEROTA: Kim, do we have any answers to that?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: At this point, I'm in touch with the network of veterans who are working with the people on the ground to try to get both Americans and people who were their translators, people who were top Afghan special operators out. And they are fighting against time, and now they're fighting against disinformation. I was just trying to tweet out that there is a rumor going around Kabul listing one of the women who's been working on getting people out, Evanna Hu, as a contact, and that they should all gather at the Serena Hotel.

So she's trying to message people, this is not her, this is a trap to gather people together, for goodness knows what purpose.

So it's a time of desperation. The other thing I'm hearing from active-duty military folks is, they are worried about the nightmarish blowback of moral injury on their troops. They all -- they're in a triage situation right now. They're trying to get out as many as they can. They know they won't get them all out.

And they fear they're going to start seeing, after August 31, when the Taliban is fully in charge, that they will start putting executions of people who used to work for what they say in their death letters that they're sending to people already the invading crusaders.

And those images are going to be horrible for the people who served there to watch.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of the last few days, Colonel, let me start here with this question. And then I have got to follow-up.

Are the U.S. troops the last ones out? I mean, we know that the coalition forces have a few 100 each, potentially, but the U.S. troops, they're the last ones out of the airfield?

LEIGHTON: Yes, Victor, that's absolutely right.

Yes, traditionally, that's what happens in operations like this. And we have already heard the news reports that other countries, like Italy and a few others, are already packing up and starting the process of redeploying their forces.

So, what our forces would do in this case is get the Afghan Special Forces that are so loyal to us away from the perimeter, and we would then secure that perimeter as the last planes leave, and then board those planes with overwatch from tactical air assets.

And then those would be the last troops there. That's absolutely right.

BLACKWELL: So, then, but who is securing the gates of the airport then? If the U.S. is the last ones out, who is securing that pretend preventing a flood of people onto that airfield?

LEIGHTON: It would have to be the Taliban. They would be the ones -- they would be the only ones that would be capable of doing that. And they would have to be the ones to prevent that flood from occurring.

So this is a very dicey operation, especially those last few moments. And what, of course, the Taliban would want to do, we would hope, is to prevent a flood of people on to the airport in those last moments. But that would be their mission. And, of course, that would require coordination with the U.S. commander that's on scene there right now.

CAMEROTA: And then, Phil...

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Oh, go ahead.

DOZIER: Sorry.

They also have some Turkish special forces on the ground, among others. There are some people that could supplement and communicate with the Taliban to keep it from total chaos. But those are small numbers of people.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Phil, back here, like clockwork, former President Trump, his fearmongering is kicking into overdrive. And he is sending out statements saying that the people leaving the airport, thousands of them are terrorists, and they're getting on the planes.

First of all, let's -- I'm not going to read his -- it's so filled with disinformation that I can't even read it on the air. But, basically, let's just remember, this is his surrender agreement, OK, that he worked out with the Taliban.

And it was scant on details of how they were going to get everybody out. In fact, there weren't any. So let's remember that to begin with.

But in terms of the vetting, what can you tell us about how, when these planes are full of people when they land in Doha or wherever, are they being vetted?

MUDD: Of course they are.

I mean, some of these people are coming out as Special Immigrant Visas. That is, they have already been vetted by the U.S. government. Remember, we have some experience with this. There are allegations about terrorists being embedded with Iraqis that we were extracting years ago after the Iraq War.

So the American government has some experience with this. Also, remember, there's a lot of diagnostics you can do in these cases. Did you fingerprint these people? Do they have I.D. that we can certify? You're not just taking John Doe off the street and saying you can get a flight into Dulles Airport and go settle into Vienna, Virginia.

I'd say one other thing. And this is the thing I worry about, not as much as the Taliban, but as an American who's watched the past five years. I worry about the lack of bipartisanship.

[14:20:02]

President Trump told us to get out. President Biden got us out. And it's going to be partisans in Congress who say, this is how America failed; 80,000-plus people have gone out in an experience of American heroism that should live for decades.

And the members of Congress will screw us by being unable to say maybe we can take victory from the jaws of defeat, and how to figure out how to be proud Americans. They have a role. And their role is to say, let's be victorious and heroic. Please do it.

BLACKWELL: Phil, staying with members of Congress, Democrat Seth Moulton and Peter Meijer just traveled to Afghanistan, they say, to conduct oversight, and they said they did this in secret because they were there to gather information, not to grandstand.

Your thoughts?

MUDD: Absolute, utter, complete nonsense.

If you're flying into country and you want to fly in what we call black or dark, that is, flying in without any signature, who's going to fly you in? Who is going to secure you? Who has to baby-sit you when you go on a tourist vacation into Kabul Airport because you want some Instagram photos?

That's the U.S. military. You don't notify the U.S. military that you're going in, so that you surprise them and force them to provide the security footprint for you, and you tell us that that's because you were afraid of your security? Excuse me.

They should have gone to Disney World. They decided instead that they want to prove to constituents that they're bad-asses who want to show that they could go into a war zone. I wish we had another moment of bipartisanship. That is Kevin McCarthy and the Democrat leader, Nancy Pelosi, looking at both of them and saying, none of you ever get to sit on a committee again.

This is a national embarrassment. It is a national embarrassment. They should never have gone.

CAMEROTA: Colonel, we're curious about your thoughts on that. How much did they complicate this mission for the military?

LEIGHTON: Well, as a former congressional liaison, I can tell you that they certainly complicated things. In peacetime situations, when a congressman goes to a particular location, it's enough of a circus when they come through.

And that's partly because we want to make sure that they get the right information, and, in some cases, they want to -- we want to impress them. But, on the other hand, when you go into a combat zone, like what -- like this area really is, that's really uncalled for.

And I have to agree with Phil. This is something that they should not have done. It should not have happened at this point in time. They had plenty of time to go to Afghanistan before. Now it's too late. Now we have got a real job to do.

CAMEROTA: Kim, any thoughts? DOZIER: You know, the military aircraft have been flying in there

empty or charters have been bringing -- have been asked to bring in things like water and supplies. So flying in, no problem.

I think, once they have landed, they would have been walking around with busy military folks who were already doing a job. And I don't think they would have needed that much security or taken that much time.

And just like some of the reporters flying in, what we have learned and been able to tell the world, even tell people like the Pentagon and the White House, this is what you say, is happening, but this is what we see happening. I think they went on an important fact-finding mission, but that's just the reporter in me that wants to be there on the ground to say, no, I saw this and this needs to be fixed and this is wrong.

BLACKWELL: All right, Kim Dozier, Phil Mudd, Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you all.

CAMEROTA: Thank you all.

MUDD: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, now to coronavirus.

A second COVID vaccine maker is inching closer to full FDA approval, as the U.S. reports more cases in a week than any other country in the world.

BLACKWELL: Plus, the surge in infections in Hawaii is so severe right now, the governor is begging tourists to stay away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:17]

BLACKWELL: Right now, there are more than 100,000 people across this country who are in hospitals with COVID. That's according to new information from the Department of Health and Human Services.

And the U.S. accounts for more new cases over the past week than any other place in the world.

CAMEROTA: Moderna is said to be one step closer to full FDA approval. The COVID vaccine maker finished its submission to the FDA this morning.

CNN national correspondent Nick Watt is following the latest.

What do we know, Nick?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as Victor just mentioned, more than 100,000 people are now in the hospital in this country fighting this virus. And we have not seen a number over 100,000 since late January. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (voice-over): More than a million new confirmed COVID cases in the U.S. this past week, the most of any country on Earth, and more than 1,000 people are dying every day.

The problem is people that are not vaccinated. We have our hospitals full of people who have not been vaccinated who are in the ICU or on ventilators. And this is really -- this is the tragedy, right?

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AR): I was informed that our ICU beds for COVID patients are full in Arkansas right now.

WATT: In Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Oregon, the National Guard now being deployed. Schools across the country, potential hotbeds for spread, are opening.

More than 180,000 cases reported in one week in kids, a huge spike.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Good news here is, a year in, we actually know how to get kids back to school safely.

WATT: Take Los Angeles, masks all around and more, first week of school, fewer than 2,000 confirmed cases among more than half-a- million students and staff.

BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: Here's the thing I care about the most and the thing we need the most. We need an accelerated, focused effort at the federal level to get the