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Pentagon Says, Explosion Outside Hamid Karzai International Airport; Officials Say, Explosion Outside Kabul Airport Appears to be Suicide Attack. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 26, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:04]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: We should note, the background on this, as you look at a live picture from the Kabul airport that in recent days and yesterday, we reported the U.S. has been very concerned about a credible threat stream about potential terror attacks targeting the gates to the airport and the crowds around those gates. The U.S. believing that terror groups had both the capability and the planning to carry out such attacks. There is still no attribution for these attacks or, as we said, any confirmation about casualties.

We have our reporters covering the story from a number of angles. Let's begin with Nick Paton Walsh. He is in Doha.

Nick, and you and I have been talking about the terror threat to the airport. We see now a confirmed attack. What are you learning?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes. Look, this is obviously the worst news for not only the families of those U.S. servicemen concerned about who may have been on or off the airport at this time but also for the many Afghans waiting outside of it. We simply don't know the reason behind this at this stage. We certainly know it is an explosion. We have yet to clarify precisely. There are many things moving in that area. It can be crowded areas too, so other reasons why there could have been a blast. But it will certainly play directly into fears of a possible attack.

Let me just tell you a little bit about where we think this might have occurred, which is in the outskirts of Hamid Karzai Airport itself, no precise location. But in the areas around there, there are many Afghans waiting at key gates. There is one called Abby Gate, northeast gate and northern gates as well. People crowd to them. They're often huge metal doors essentially. I've heard people banging on them. It is an extraordinary noise of desperation. And this is where we've seen the standoff between often Afghan security personnel, U.S. Marines and the crowds down below.

The traffic is often blocked around there and I've seen video, heard reports that often too the Taliban have been involved in using their presence as a sort of crowd filtration, vetting who is allowed to approach the gates. And they're even more involved further away from the airport, further down the airport road. So, it is unclear where this blast has occurred. It is certainly, I think, the worst news for anybody observing this situation closely. But it is sadly will most likely have fed into an area that is quite heavily populated. We've seen images of thousands, it seems, of Afghans despite the news that the gates, as it stands, are fully closed, that there is, at this point, no way on unless you are essentially escorted or your entry on to the airport is arranged by prior coordination with the Taliban and the United States. And even people who have half of that still, it seems, circulating around the base in buses this morning.

People have still gone to these gates in large numbers. They've stood, I've seen videos of them standing in sewage water, in the ducts along there below razor wire, very dangerous by itself in the crush, holding up pieces of paper, demanding to be allowed in, making their case as to why the NATO allies inside the base should bring them on to the base.

Now, obviously, for those who have a distaste for the U.S. presence, they prove a target, but also to coming out of the base, there have been U.S. service members in the past. Unclear what has occurred here but it is a sensitive and delicate target, so densely populated.

SCIUTTO: No question, Nick Paton Walsh. So let's remember what we have learned at this point. Explosion outside of Kabul airport at one of the gates there, where there have been a number of crowds trying, clamoring to get in on to get on one of those evacuation flights out. Our latest information, it appears to be a suicide attack. That would be consistent with the kind of attacks that U.S. officials have been concerned about in the hours and days leading up to this.

As we reported yesterday, a credible threat stream, intelligence stream that the U.S. had about plots, planning and capability to carry out an attack targeting exactly a gate like this and exactly a crowd like this that has been gathering at these gates.

I want to go now to Sam Kiley. He was on the ground at that airport until just yesterday morning among the journalists that were taken out of the country in part because of safety concerns.

Sam, this was the concern. And the sad fact is the Pentagon now confirming such an attack.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The situation on Kabul International Airport for several days until I left yesterday evening, in fact, Jim, was extremely tense, because they did have this very active, ongoing intelligence with some precision. They were anticipating a spectacular attack. They were anticipating an attack almost certainly against the crowds gathering outside of the gate. And they anticipated that it would be so-called ISIS-K, ISIS Khorasan group, behind it.

Now, we don't know yet officially in any great detail the providence of this bomb but all of the fingers of blame are going to be pointing towards ISIS-K.

[10:05:00]

And they're really the only organization, Jim, in the world really that has an interest in committing this kind of an atrocity, because it does three things. It intimidates the Afghan population, which is very much an ISIS tactic or even strategy. It embarrasses and humiliates the Taliban, who had got a security deal, they were effectively running security in their own way, and filtering out Afghans, counter to American policy, but they were working with the United States. And then you have got the United States running security for that multinational coalition effort to get as many people out before they have to start withdrawing themselves. This is coming at a very vulnerable time indeed.

Now, the locations, as Nick was saying, he's laid it out very accurately, there are these bottlenecks that present themselves as fantastic targets for those cynical and violent terrorist organization probably the world has ever seen. They want the publicity. They want the attention. They want to humiliate both the Taliban and the United States. And that is what they're trying to achieve with the sort of atrocity of this nature. And on top of that, of course, they're going to make it even harder for the last refugees to get out.

SCIUTTO: Sam Kiley, as Sam was speaking there, you can see that. And, again, I want to remind you, this is a live picture from the Kabul airport. What we saw crossing the screen was a U.S. military Chinook double-rotor helicopter. That is those clouds of smoke you're seeing rising that the rotors brought up. Hard to read in to what that is, and we won't, but that is some activity there at the airport. And we're going to bring you details more, as we hear more about casualties, if they were casualties, who among those casualties.

Again, the limited amount, we know now, is the Pentagon confirmed an attack outside the gates of the airport there or at the gates. And it is our latest information that this appears to be a suicide attack. That would be consistent with the tactics used by a number of terror groups who should be clear in Afghanistan, though I should note that the particular concern leading up to this moment, this specific intelligence stream that we reported yesterday, focused on the group ISIS-K or Islamic State Khorasan, one of, sadly, many terror groups now making a base home in Afghanistan.

Let's go back to Kylie Atwood. Kylie, I know you've been working your sources on this. Are you learning any more details about the exact location of this attack or the possibility of casualties?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. What we are learning is that this attack happened at one of those entry gates that you guys have been discussing. These entry gates have been swarmed by Afghans over the last few days, over the last ten days, frankly, trying to get into the airport. That would explain why we are hearing there are Afghan casualties as a result of this explosion.

Now, we are told that this explosion looks like a suicide attack, that it was something that one person potentially going in, but we're looking to learn more about that. But, significantly, these gates have been closed largely for the last few days, as the United States has prioritized getting in Americans. But the Afghans have still been in large crowds outside these gates. That has made the situation at the airport, as the U.S. government has been tracking this ISIS-K threat, incredibly dangerous.

And we heard just this morning from the top U.S. diplomat on the ground in Afghanistan who wouldn't talk about the specific threat streams that the United States was picking up. But he used the word, imminent, to describe the threats that they are seeing that are possible. Of course, what we're seeing now is something that they were likely tracking, generally speaking.

So this is going to be an incredibly quick evolving situation. We're looking to learn more. Were there any casualties? Was anyone hurt on the U.S. side? As of now, there are no U.S. casualties that we are told. But we will also watch to see how this impacts the evacuation effort. The United States is still flying Americans out of the country. They warned those Americans to stay away from these gates just yesterday because of the threat stream that they were seeing.

But right now, what we're learning is that this was at one of those entry gates into the airport and it is suspected to be a suicide attack.

SCIUTTO: Kylie Atwood at the State Department. And if you could put the map up on the screen again, as well, this is a live picture at the airport looking toward the flight line, the runway there. The main entrances to the airport for civilians are on the south side, the civilian side for entry to the airport. And that appears to be at one of the entry points where this attack took place. As I mentioned, it is our latest information. It appears to be a suicide attack, that consistent with the tactics of a number of terror groups operating in Afghanistan.

[10:10:00]

It is also consistent with a warning, an intelligence threat stream that we reported on yesterday about plots and planning and capabilities for such an attack in and around the airport that the U.S. became aware of. That particular warning focused on one group, Islamic State Khorasan or ISIS-K. That said, we should always note, there are a lot of bad groups, a lot of bad guys running around that country right now with capabilities to do something like this.

John Harwood is at the White House, where we learned just a short time ago that the president has been briefed on the attack.

Beyond that, does the White House have a reaction to this and do they have any plans to respond?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the question is going to be how serious the impact of this event has been. Important to recognize that we still don't know the gravity of this attack, assuming it was a suicide attack. That is to say what the impact was and how many casualties there were on the Afghan side, on the American side, if there were any. And the scale of that impact would likely dictate whether or not the United States feels compelled to respond. But this is the nightmare scenario. This is the kind of nightmare scenario that the administration have been worried about as they get to the end of this evacuation process, that vulnerability would be heightened, as you had desperate people trying to get to the airport crowding around those gates and that is one reason why they've tried to encourage people to leave the airport unless specifically authorized to come in.

But this is precisely what President Biden had worried about. Of course, over the last couple of weeks, we have had up to this moment no reported U.S. casualties. And we've had no mass casualty events involving Afghans at the airport.

Has this changed that situation? That is a question that we simply can't answer now. The president may know the answer because he's been briefed and has got access to information we don't. But we're in a wait-and-see mode and it is possible that the Pentagon at that 10:30 briefing will be able to lay out much more detail about the scale of the attack and we'll see whether the White House has information to add as well.

SCIUTTO: Perhaps notable, as John was speaking there, I did see one of those C-17s taxiing on the runway. We'll continue to monitor and see if that is an indication that flights continue despite this threat. What we could see a couple of moments ago was a Chinook helicopter, a double-rotor helicopter flying across the screen there.

Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon. Barbara, I know you've been working your sources. Is there any new information about what happened here, specifically about casualties?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what John said is the operative word at the moment. Somebody may well know. But here at the Pentagon, they are not yet publicly saying anything about the possibility of casualties. And I think it is very important to sort of take a deep breath here and remember that there are U.S. military families who know their loved ones are serving at airport right now who are watching every minute of this and they want to get word about what has happened and if any of their loved ones are in jeopardy. Just like the Afghans who are at the airport, they're families are going to want to know if their loved ones have been hurt, wounded or even killed in this attack.

A lot of people, the world's eyes focused on this airport and a lot of family members on all sides wanting to know what has happened to their loved ones. It is going to be important to remember that the Pentagon has very strict notification procedures when any kind of potential, and we don't know yet, mass casualty incident happened. So we want to be very cautious about all of this. We simply have not yet had word from the Pentagon.

If, if there are injuries to U.S. personnel, there is medical treatment capability on the airfield. The U.S. military doesn't go anywhere without its medics. But it is always a question of whether they will have to airlift people out of there if, and it is a big if, if there are serious injuries. So this is something that we will be watching very closely.

We're getting some initial indications the 10:30 news conference that had been scheduled here at the Pentagon obviously may float -- may be delayed until later in the morning, as they continue to try to gather information. What we know is from Kabul to Tampa, Florida, the military headquarters for Middle East operations, to here in the Pentagon, meetings are continuous, phone calls are continuous as they try and gather information about what happened.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, in situations like this, the military has priorities. One, make the situation safe, two, treat any injured there maybe, but also do notifications as well. These are things we'll likely have to wait for to get more details.

But let's tell you the details we know now, explosion outside of Kabul airport. It appears at one of the gates for entry to that airport. The gates you've been seeing pictures of in recent days with throngs of people trying desperately to leave the country.

[10:15:00]

Sadly, the concern had been leading up to this that terror groups, including ISIS-K, Islamic State Khorasan, would target such gates, such crowds with the exact attention -- intention of creating fear and causing casualties. That had been the intelligence, credible intelligence leading up to this moment. Our latest information here at CNN is that it appears to be a suicide attack as well. We'll bring you more information as we get new details.

I want to go now to Sam Kiley, who only 24 hours ago was, along with other journalists, evacuated from the country in part because of concerns about risks just like this one.

Sam, as you're watching this unfold here, tell us what your reaction is.

KILEY: I think, Jim, it is got a sense of tragic inevitability because of the lay down there. The security lay down means that, yes, the Taliban are patrolling, there are lots of people walking around with weapons, as the British and American military withdrawal, there were fewer and fewer people to be on security. Of course, they won't have reduced security on the airport perimeter but there are less and less people around to monitor this situation.

And in any case, very little they could do about it. If somebody walks in with a backpack and manages to sneak through and detonate a suicide bomb, that was frankly something that was top of anybody's mind a week ago. When you get large crowds like this, ISIS-K would see that as a target of opportunity that is almost irresistible given their agenda. And, clearly, there was very active and accurate intelligence leading up to this moment. Sadly, no capability to actually stop the attack if indeed it was ISIS-K, and I think it's almost raising certainty that it is.

And now the issue is really the scale. They love scale, ISIS. They love to be able to cause carnage on the most graphic level in order to humiliate and embarrass the two key enemies that they have in that region, which are the Taliban and the United States. The Taliban have actually been fighting ISIS and killing them in large quantities whenever they seem rise up because they want to be able to dominate the Islamic space there, but also because, historically, they've learned their lesson of having given safe haven to Al Qaeda and they have been working very hard, perhaps not so much on emasculating Al Qaeda. They have some relationship there. But they have been working very hard to stamp out the sort of internationalist, ultraviolent brand of Islamism that ISIS started in Syria and has spread, of course, across Africa and trying to get a foothold in Afghanistan.

So, this is big publicity stunt, apart from anything else, if it is ISIS-K. But it is also a very easy area to do a large amount of damage. The existence of blast walls, for example, mean that if you're close to it, you can almost magnify, you can almost channel if you have got blast walls on either side of routes, which, for example, exist on the way to the Abby Gate. That is a canal and a road that have -- the road has blast walls either side of it. So you can actually direct the blast up and down the road. There is nothing going out to the side. You get ricochet effect and so on. So, very deliberate targeting here, very what clearly understood that something like this was imminent and now it seems to have happened, Jim.

SCIUTTO: The sad facts on the ground. Sam Kiley, thanks very much.

Our Kylie Atwood is at the State Department as we continue to monitor news from Kabul that continues to be a live picture there, an explosion at one of the gates to Kabul airport where crowds have been gathering to get on, hopefully try one of the evacuation flights. Our latest information is this appears to be a suicide attack consistent with intelligence about a threat in recent days, a threat to the airport. We do not have any confirmation of casualties and who would be among the casualties.

Kylie Atwood at the State Department, what is latest you're hearing there? The State Department just yesterday warned Americans away from the Kabul airport specifically because of terror threats to the airport.

ATWOOD: Yes, that is right. Just this morning, the top State Department official in Afghanistan warned of an imminent threat, right? We know that yesterday, they told Americans to stay away, to leave the gates at the airport if they were there trying to get into the airport, of course, to get on to these evacuation flights. It is good news that the United States put out that alert for Americans, frankly, because it means, hopefully, that a lot of those Americans who were there left.

But the reality on the ground is that we have seen a tremendous number of Afghans surrounding these gates, where we are reporting that this explosion happened. So what that means is that even with a suicide attack like this is suspected to be, you can have a large number of casualties.

Now we don't know how many Afghans have died in this explosion yet.

[10:20:00]

That is something that we're still trying to learn. And I think it is fair to say that all of the government officials here at the State Department, at the Pentagon, at the White House are all trying to gather that information because this is such a fast-moving case scenario. This happened just recently.

But the bottom line also is what does this do for the evacuation efforts for the Biden administration? We have heard the president say he wanted to speed up the evacuation efforts by August 31st to get out because of the ISIS-K threat streams that they were picking up on the ground. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Kylie Atwood at the State Department. Notably, as Kylie was speaking there, and, again, this is a live picture of the flight line at Kabul airport, you could see a flight taking off. It appears be one of those C-17s that had been the work horses of U.S. the evacuation operation, that potentially a hopeful sign that they're able to continue those flights despite this attack. Remember, these situations, they start with securing the situation, taking care of the injured, getting word out and then moving on to the mission at hand.

Joining me now is someone to discuss this with a great amount ever experience in this area, Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster. He's former National Security Adviser to President Trump, of course, a long history of commanding forces deployed as well. H.R., good to have you on this morning, thanks very much.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.), FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Hey, Jim. It's good to be with you even under these terrible circumstances.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. Tell us, in your view, the significance of this. This had been the fear. We knew, based on intelligence, that the airport was a target. Now, it appears that terror groups or group have been able to carry out an attack. What, in your view, is the effect of this, potential effect of this on the evacuation operation?

MCMASTER: Well, I hope it has the opposite effect of what is intended. What the intended effect, I think, is to accelerate our departure and to humiliate us further on the way out after our surrender to a terrorist organization. I hope that the opposite fact it has is really an end of our self-delusion, right? We keep hearing about, well, maybe this is a more benign form of the Taliban. Maybe there really is this bold line between the Taliban and Al Qaeda, the Haqqani Network and ISIS-K.

I mean, Siraj Haqqani, Jim, is in charge of security in Kabul. He's the number one hostage taker of Americans and the number one mass murderer of Afghan civilians. Those are the two principal tactics that they brought to the jihadist terrorist ecosystem and they are the bridge between Al Qaeda and Taliban, which are completely intertwined organizations.

So maybe we end our self-delusion and start being serious again, right? I mean, I think that what we have done is we have exuded extraordinary weakness and weakness invites these kinds of attacks. SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. The troops have already begun to leave. The deadline has been set. The president has said he is sticking to the deadline. The fact is that that deadline is really when the last light is turned off in Kabul by the U.S. forces, that the evacuations have to end before that because, well you have got to get all of the troops off the ground.

Is there any wiggle room, flexibility for the president here to extend that deadline, to get more people out, both Americans and people who served with Americans?

MCMASTER: I think the question we ask is what is the mission? Is the mission just following through on the surrender and withdrawing or is the mission to get out all Americans and to get out the Afghans who are at grave risk because they've helped us and they've tried to help build a better future for their country. If the mission is the latter, then, hey, the military can do that. This is our capability. But can we muster the will to do that?

What is the mission? If the mission is withdrawal, then what we're going to see is a humiliating end of this withdrawal. And what we're going to see is a fast forward from the humiliation that evoked images of Saigon in 1975 to images of 1979 and a hostage crisis. That is what you're going to see if the mission is just to get the hell out.

SCIUTTO: As you know, it was President Trump who negotiated with Taliban, frankly, but also agreed to a withdrawal day, May 1st this year. Were Biden's hands tied by that agreement or could he simply have reversed it?

MCMASTER: No. I'm telling you, that was not the original sin. That was one of the many sins was the capitulation agreement of February of 2020 negotiated by Zal Khalilzad, who was still representing the United States after all of these humiliations. How is that the case, Jim, right? I mean, the Biden administration reversed a lot of Trump policies. They could have reversed this. I don't believe that the president's hands were tied and they're not tied now. Why not withdrawal, Zal Khalilzad, immediately? Why not make it clear to the Taliban that if there is another attack like this or if you interrupt our evacuation efforts, that there will be severe costs maybe be willing to impose those costs?

[10:25:05]

I mean, it is a question of will, Jim, really.

And, of course, as we go further down this path, your options get fewer and fewer, and especially if the mission is just to get out. What do you really expect our military and our diplomats on the ground to do, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes, fair question. And for the many people, and I've spoken to some, and I'm sure you have as well, Afghans who serve the Americans want to leave, have tried to leave and were blocked from leaving. Final question, if I can, because, of course, part of this story is the quick capitulation of Afghan security forces as well as the government. Ashraf Ghani fled on a plane immediately as this was falling apart. Does the U.S. military share responsibility going back several years for misleading the American people as to what the U.S. had built there in terms of a credible Afghan security force and a credible Afghan government?

MCMASTER: Well, I'll tell you, Jim, in my experience, we were very candid about shortcomings within the Afghan National Security Forces and part of the design was a sustained commitment by the United States. Helping them with their asymmetrical abilities, right, the surveillance capabilities, the airpower capabilities that were different from the Taliban's asymmetrical capabilities, which is unscrupulousness, right, and brutality. And so we pulled the carpet out from under them by removing all of their asymmetric advantages.

And what's most important, Jim, is we delivered a series of psychological blows to them. Hey, we told them you're not party to this negotiation with the Taliban. We entered into a capitulation agreement. We told them we're leaving. You're going to lose all of your support. We forced them to release 5,000 of some of the most heinous people on Earth who went immediately back to terrorizing the Afghan people. And so it was the psychological blows, I think, that fell much harder on Afghans than even the physical blows that the Taliban could have delivered.

You know what the Taliban did with the February 2020 capitulation agreement and with President Biden's confirmation of that, they went around to district chiefs. They went around to provincial leaders and to Afghan army and said, hey, here are your options, accommodate with us or we kill your family. What do you think about that? And so that is why you saw this rapid collapse. I think it was completely predictable.

SCIUTTO: Please stand by. I just want to update our viewers who may just be joining what we know about the situation in Kabul. An explosion confirmed by the Pentagon outside Kabul airport. It appears, based on CNN's reporting, to be a suicide attack and one targeting one of the gates of entry to the Kabul airport where many Afghan civilians but also notably American citizens and green card holders have had to use to access those evacuation flights. And by the way, to get that access has been very difficult. The Taliban has been denying many people from coming through but also concerns about an attack just like this led the U.S. embassy in Kabul just yesterday to warn Americans away from going to entrances and gates to the airport because of the threat of a terror attack just like this one. The Pentagon has not confirmed casualties yet. It is a question we continue to ask them.

Looking at that map there, just so you know, it is on the south side of the flight line of that airport where we believe this attack took place. And a few minutes ago, we did see at least one U.S. military jet take off, the possibility at least that these evacuation flights are continuing. We should also note that in the moments and days leading up to this, that the U.S. had a warned it had intelligence, credible, specific intelligence about a threat to the airport. H.R. McMaster, that particular warning was about ISIS-K, Islamic State Khorasan, as being the one targeting the airport. But the fact is there are many terror groups operating inside Afghanistan today, the Taliban among them, Al Qaeda and many thousands of fighters according, to the U.N., now flocking to Afghanistan to join these groups, to train with these groups, to make it what it was before 9/11, a terror haven. What does that mean for the security of the United States to have a terror haven like that in Afghanistan and does it put us at risk again of what we saw 20 years ago, a group like Al Qaeda plotting attack on the U.S. homeland?

MCMASTER: Absolutely. And it puts us at risk of what we saw just six years ago when ISIS took over large swaths of Syria and Iraq and then became the most destructive terrorist organization in history, conducting nearly 200 attacks internationally, many of them in Europe, shooting down a Russian airliner. So this is what we're facing. And this is what happened when you surrendered to jihadist terrorists.

[10:30:00]

And I think what's important about this, you may hear this is ISIS-K or whatever, but these terrorist organizations exist in an ecosystem along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.