Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
ISIS-K Poses Threat to U.S. Evacuation Efforts; Israel Prime Minister Naftali Bennett to Meet with President Joe Bide at the White House; U.S. Racing Evacuations for 1,500 Americans Left in Afghanistan; Future Unclear for Women and Girls in Afghanistan. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired August 26, 2021 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church.
Just ahead on CNN Newsroom, concerns over terror threats have further complicated evacuations in Afghanistan, with U.S. deadline to withdraw fast approaching.
Afghan women remaining under Taliban rule are already seeing changes with working women told to stay home. We will talk with one of Afghanistan's first female mayors who recently fled because she feared for her safety.
And a case study for heard immunity. Iceland hasn't recorded a single death from COVID-19 since May.
Thanks for joining us.
Well, new security threats have the U.S., U.K., and Australia warning their citizens to stay away from the Kabul airport in Afghanistan. The U.K. foreign office says there's a high threat of terrorist attack. And a U.S. defense official told CNN the group known as ISIS-K wants to create mayhem at the airport where huge crowds of people are hoping for a flight out of the country.
The U.S. military is set to leave Afghanistan in less than a week, and tens of thousands of Afghans who assisted U.S. forces could be left behind, their fate in the hands of the Taliban.
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken reports more than 82,000 people have been flown out of Kabul as part of a massive airlift, 19,000 in just the past day. Blinken would not commit to a U.S. diplomatic presence in Afghanistan after the military withdrawal. But he did make this promise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Let me be crystal clear about this. There is no deadline on our work to help any remaining American citizens who decide they want to do so, along with many Afghans who have stood by us over these years and want to leave and have been unable to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH (on camera): But for so many hoping to flee Afghanistan and the Taliban time is running out. And the desperation and the danger grow with each passing day.
CNN's Sam Kiley is there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the closing moments of America's longest war, a desperate legacy. A day after the Taliban announced that they would stop Afghans getting into Kabul airport, these are the scenes at its walls. They wade through sewage in breathtaking heat, waving their documents, desperate for escape beyond these barriers, plane after plane carrying thousands to freedom.
But here, there is fast fading hope that they will get to safety before America and its allies leave in a few days' time. The process, taking an added urgency with what U.S. intelligence have described as a very specific threat against crowds gathering outside the airport.
KILEY (on camera): We've had a number of reports of Afghans stuck in pockets around the town, desperately sending out signals to Americans to try to get them out, particularly people who've been working with the United States. We've heard from one group whose identity we are keeping secret. They really fear they will not survive the coming days if they can't get to this airport.
KILEY (voice over): 19,000 people have been evacuated in the last 24 hours. But with the Taliban blocking refugees from getting to the airport, the numbers here are down. There will be a day, maybe two, before the military effort will have to focus on its own withdrawal. Amid detailed threats from ISIS-K, who, sources tell CNN, have the capacity and plans to commit atrocities against desperate Afghan crowds.
Such fears are now behind. Those who are boarding on the plane, relief. Mohammed Yusufzai is a U.S. citizen, so with his family of six he was able to make it through the Taliban blocks.
MOHAMMED YUSUFZAI, U.S. CITIZEN: Nobody wants to leave their home easily, but there are a lot of, a lot of challenges around.
KILEY: Landing in Doha, a muted joy. Now they are safe, but on a long journey into the unknown.
Sam Kiley, CNN, Kabul International Airport.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH (on camera): And CNN's Anna Coren has covered Afghanistan for years and has recently returned from Kabul, she joins us now live. Good to see you, Anna.
So, what more are you learning about this terror threat that prompted the U.S. and other nations to tell their citizens to leave the airport. And what is the scene there now?
[03:05:02]
ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rosemary, this threat is very real, that is what I'm learning from experts who are tapped in to Al-Qaeda, to ISIS, to the Taliban. They are surprised, in fact, that they haven't been attacks already, which is very foreboding, considering there are still days before August 31st.
They say there are a number of ISIS-K cells within Kabul, and that when Kabul fell on the 15th of August, that about 2,000 ISIS-K prisoners were released from prison. They say the Taliban has killed about 100 of them, but that means there is 1,900 of them, you know, roaming the streets, planning attacks in these cells within Kabul.
This is obviously front and center for the U.S. administration for President Biden which is why he is sticking to that 31st of August deadline. And we know, Rosemary, that there are 1,500 U.S. citizens who are yet to get to the airport, yet to be airlifted out of Hamid Karzai International Airport. Obviously, they are now the priority.
But then it will shift to a drawdown, they need to get out more than 5,000 U.S. troops, coalition troops, as well as the Afghan forces, the Afghan commandoes who didn't surrender to the Taliban. So that is the way that this operation is going to shift very soon, which means that for the tens of thousands of Afghan allies, the people who worked for the Americans, who worked for foreign companies, they will be left stranded.
CHURCH: And Anna, you are in touch with Afghans now trapped in Kabul. What are they telling you?
COREN: You know, Rosemary, it's harrowing. Because these people are sending messages, constantly pleading for help, is there any window, is there any way that I can get through one of the gates? Do you know anybody inside? Can you take my baby? I mean, there are really is a sense of hopelessness.
Because all we can do is tell their stories to the world. One woman in particular, who I am in touch with, sent this message, you know, a short time ago. And I want to read part of it to you and our viewers. She said since the regime changed, all my world is three rooms of my home. Sometimes I become so tired, I feel I can't breathe easily. I feel there is not enough oxygen in the house. I feel oxygen has left us and left Afghanistan. Now these three rooms are my shopping markets, my ice cream shop, my office that I used to go to before. Now I just go from room to room to help my heavy heart.
I mean, she describes this as a living nightmare that just won't end. And there really is that deep sense of abandonment right now and of betrayal, Rosemary. You know, her business told -- her company, I should say, which is based in the United States, in Washington, D.C., told her and her fellow employees that they would be evacuated on the 7th of August. Clearly, that is not going to happen now, and they will be stranded to fend for themselves.
CHURCH: Yes. It is just so harrowing, isn't it? Anna Coren bringing us the very latest on that. Many thanks.
Well Cuba's health care system is pushed to the limit as COVID cases reached record highs. And now the government faces a rare pushback from its doctors. That's coming up.
Plus, doctors in Iceland are also taking a stand against vaccine skeptics. Why they say Iceland's COVID cases defy the usual way of counting. Back with that in just a moment.
[03:10:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHURCH (on camera): Women not able to leave Afghanistan are also facing the unknown. And they have valid fears that life as they know it is over. The Taliban insist their new regime will be more moderate. But also have refused to guarantee women's rights will not be stripped away.
Earlier this week, a Taliban spokesman advised women not to return to work because they are not safe from the militant group's soldiers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZABIHULLAH MUJAHID, TALIBAN SPOKESMAN (through translator): They want to make sure women are not treated in a disrespectful way, or God forbid, hurt. So we would like them to stay at home until security is in place for them in the offices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: Well one of Afghanistan's first female mayors fled when the Taliban took over and is now living in exile. Zarifa Ghafari joins us now via Skype from Germany. Thank you so much for talking with us.
ZARIFA GHAFARI, FORMER MAYOR, MAYDAN WARDAK PROVINCE, AFGHANISTAN: Thank you so much.
CHURCH: So, what are your thoughts when you hear that the Taliban are now saying working women should stay home for their own safety because the Taliban leadership can't trust that their own man won't harm those women?
GHAFARI: Actually, I think, from the start we ever tried to trust (Inaudible) that it was leaving the words by Taliban. It was just a mess. For us, one pupil especially one woman which we know all (Inaudible) and all clear about the Taliban and their thought about their ideals and about their rules.
So, it was nothing so amazing by their presence. It was clear that they will start abandoning women one by one and day by day. So, it's just starting of that and we are more worried about later than 31st August. So, I'm sure that will be more horrific than this.
CHURCH: So, what do you think will happen now to the many Afghan allies who helped the U.S. and other coalition partners but will now likely be left behind?
GHAFARI: Unfortunately, thousands and thousands of allies have been left behind. And more important, Taliban are like about to kill them one by one. They are getting beaten, they are getting killed. But with the decision of 31st August and it's just four days left I think it can be more horrific and we can be witnessing more human rights abuses inside our country, especially for those who have been working for allies and country inside.
CHURCH: And you have criticized the U.S. for leaving Afghanistan. But President Biden has said that after 20 years, it's time to go. And the Afghan government and its 300,000 strong army should have been able to protect the country. Instead, of course, the Afghan president fled and the army evaporated. What do you say to that?
GHAFARI: Actually, for Afghanistan, I blame everyone, President Ghani, Abdullah, Dr. Abdullah, Karzai, all politicians inside the country, politician of international community, international leaders, the U.S., Germany, whoever it is on the ground because no one really do think that they really needed to do it, especially they, you know, kind of we have been sold to our enemies.
They say that there is 300,000 soldiers but I think they forget that every day we are losing more. We were losing more than 200 soldiers every day. And it takes more than six months to have another soldier just one another soldier on the ground.
[03:15:01]
So, yes, this situation with that was not so normal and was not so good. But I think it's now -- the Taliban is the reality on the ground. They are reality, they are the fact on the ground and I think the more we need is just to talk to them and like work on them type of future how they could govern this country, and how they could stay there.
More importantly, it's about women's rights. We need to discuss and we need to negotiate with them to the type of their rules for the women. If they want to like keep women always inside the houses and want to abandon women, it's not possible, because the women of today's race and today's women is not women of 2001 or 2000, or maybe 1999. They are women of courage, of determination. They will not just stand by --
CHURCH: All right we've lost our connection there, but many thanks to Zarifa Ghafari for talking with us.
We've been fighting COVID-19 since December of 2019. For many countries, the first lockdowns were a year and a half ago, yet despite vaccines, boosters, and all sorts of restrictions, we are still seeing surges in places like the United States, parts of Africa, Asia and Australia. South Korea has reported its highest daily death toll from the virus
since January as the country battles a fourth COVID wave. And New South Wales, Australia saw more than 1,000 cases in just 24 hours, that's the most in a single day for any Australian state or territory since the pandemic began.
So, let's bring in CNN's Will Ripley, he joins us from Hong Kong. Good to see you, Will.
So, despite Australia's very strict zero COVID policy, the multiple lockdowns don't appeal to be working for the country anymore. What is the latest on these increasing cases and the situation across the region?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Two words, Rosemary, Delta variant. It changed the game. It changed the game in Australia, it changed the game in New Zealand, it is changing the game everywhere because it is highly contagious. And even people who are vaccinated can catch it.
But the key difference is that people who are vaccinated, who catch COVID, whether it'd be Delta or otherwise, overwhelmingly have far less severe cases, often no symptoms at all. In New South Wales, the state you were just talking about in Australia, 98 percent of those who are in the hospital right now, in the intensive care unit, are unvaccinated.
The vaccinated folks often don't even need to go to the hospital. They might not even know that they have it. And so that is why in New South Wales, where yes, they are hitting a new threshold, as you said, you know, 1,029 local COVID cases in 24 hours, the next highest number was Victoria state which had 80.
So, the case numbers are certainly alarming, but even in New South Wales the officials are now starting to look at vaccination as the way out of this. And they are hoping that by mid-October they will reach their goals of around 70 percent of the public vaccinated.
Lockdowns suffering during a COVID outbreak, that is certainly a motivator to get people to get those jabs in their arms. But they're also trying to offer other incentives as they slowly begin to plan the reopening of New South Wales. So, if people are doubly vaccinated, they will eventually have more freedom, like being able to gather outside, in groups of up to five if everybody in the group has both shots.
In areas that are of higher concern, people in the same household like families could be able to have picnics for up to an hour outside if the adults are double vaccinated. This is -- this is a real push in New South Wales. They just hit a milestone, six million jabs in their state, and they want to trying to get many more shots in arms because they know that is the way out.
Health officials have been saying it, politicians have been saying it, they're even saying it in mainland China which like Australia also has embraced this kind of zero COVID strategy that seems to still be holding more or less in China considering that they have three local cases for a country of one and a half billion people, and whenever they have any local cases they take pretty stringent measures.
Even in China, where they have around 60 percent of the population vaccinated so far, they're having to provide incentives to get people to go in, particularly in rural areas of China, a home to some 400 million people. So, they're offering, for example, mobile vaccination sites, or even free pick-ups and rides to people who might need transportation to get a vaccine.
[03:19:52]
China has administered almost two billion doses of their vaccines so far. China made vaccines, there are still questions about efficacy and whether they are going to have heard immunity, but a lot -- some of the Chinese vaccines have actually scientifically shown to be effective, maybe not as effective, numbers wise as Pfizer.
But still, whatever vaccine is available, and whenever a vaccine is approved, the overwhelming message, Rosemary, go get it. It's your civic duty and it's going to help everybody in your community get back to some sense of a normal life that we all so desperately need.
CHURCH: Yes. Get vaccinated. It's the only thing that is going to change all of this right across the globe.
Will Ripley, many thanks, joining us from Hong Kong. I appreciate it.
Well, Iceland now appears to have vaccinated enough people to have herd immunity, or at least close to it. So, the few cases it's seeing have become thought of vaccine skeptics who say it proves they are right. But as Gary Tuchman reports from Reykjavik, in Iceland, doctors say they are missing the point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN REPORTER: Come to Iceland for the splendor and for the vivid proof of the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines.
How many people have died in this country during this wave from COVID?
THOROLFUR GUDNASON, CHIEF EPIDEMIOLOGIST OF ICELAND: None.
TUCHMAN: Zero?
GUDNASON: Zero.
TUCHMAN: Dr. Thorolfur Gunason is Iceland's chief epidemiologist.
GUDNASON: I think the widespread vaccination in Iceland has for sure prevented serious consequences of the infection.
PALL MATTHIASSON, CEO, LANDSPITALI UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: I feel grateful and I think it is a testimony to this population.
TUCHMAN: Dr. Pall Matthiasson is the CEO of the largest hospital in Iceland, Landspitali national University Hospital. He says the nightmare scenario during this fourth and worst wave of COVID has been averted because of his fellow Icelanders.
MATTHIASSON: If it hadn't been for the vaccinations in our population, I think it would've been catastrophic.
TUCHMAN: Health officials say nobody has died from the small country since May, 30 died before that, almost all before the vaccine was available, and just how vaccinated is this nation now?
MAR KRISTJANSSON, CHIEF, INFECTIOUS DISEASE DEPARTMENT, LANDSPITALI HOSPITAL: If you look at the age brackets 16 years and older it's above, just above 90 percent. If you take from 12 and over that's 84 percent.
TUCHMAN: Superlative percentages. Finding people in the U.S. who haven't gotten the vaccine is easy. Here, not so easy.
Have you gotten vaccines?
UNKNOWN: Yes, of course.
TUCHMAN: Of course? Why do you say of course?
UNKNOWN: Just because it's our civic duty to get vaccinated.
TUCHMAN: Civic duty?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
TUCHMAN: Do you have friends who haven't gotten vaccinated?
UNKNOWN: No.
TUCHMAN: We go into the hospital Gjorgaesludeild, the Icelandic word for intensive care unit because the high number of vaccinations also means fewer patients despite the surge of infections.
Last year before the COVID vaccinations were available to the Icelandic public there were typically between 65 and 75 COVID patients in this hospital with. On this day, there are 18 COVID patients. Some are very ill, three of them are in the section of the ICU behind this black and yellow tape. But patient numbers do continue to drop.
KRISTINN SIGVALDASON, INTENSIVE CARE PHYSICIAN: It was absolutely crazy last year. But it is more calm at the moment, there are fewer patients and they get well sooner than they did in the first wave.
TUCHMAN: Notably, the U.S. State Department issued its most serious COVID advisory this earlier month stating, do not travel to Iceland. Iceland's COVID surge is for real but so is the sense of optimism.
KRISTJANSSON: I think we have proof of this principle that the vaccination is working wonders.
TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Reykjavik, Iceland.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CHURCH (on camera): Well, the world has endured well over a year of
this deadly pandemic, and we still don't know definitively how it all began. A three-month U.S. investigation into the origins of the virus is now complete, but sources say the report has done little to sway the intelligence community's confidence on either of the origin theories, whether the virus was leaked from a lab or emerged naturally.
CNN's Natasha Bertrand has the latest now from Washington.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: We're learning that President Biden has been briefed on the classified report about the origins of coronavirus, stemming from an investigation that he ordered about 90 days ago into the origins of the pandemic that has killed so many people around the world.
And what we're learning is that the intelligence community still does not have an answer. They still don't know for sure how this virus actually originated, whether it was in a laboratory, in leaked through a lab accident, or whether it emerged in the wild naturally from animal to human contact.
The intelligence community we're told by sources still has low confidence in both of those theories, meaning that they really have not been able to make a determination one way or another with the limited information that they have, especially given the Chinese government's limited cooperation with the U.S. government about a definitive answer when it comes to how this pandemic actually started.
[03:24:56]
Now what they do know and what they do know in this report, we're told by sources, is that the Chinese government's limitations on sharing information with the rest of the world in the early days of the pandemic has significantly hamstrung U.S. investigation global investigators for that matter, investigations into the origins of the pandemic.
That basically, the Chinese government silenced and unwillingness to be forthcoming in those very early days has hamstrung the U.S. intelligence community's ability to get to the bottom of would actually cause this pandemic.
So, it's unclear whether the Biden administration is now going to order another 90-day review, that is a possibility, that U.S. officials have told us maybe on the table just to further examine and go through more data and more intelligence about what actually caused this.
But ultimately, they may see that as futile because without the Chinese government's cooperation in all of this, without actually getting on the ground and being able to examine the lab, for example, it's going to be nearly impossible for the U.S. to get a definitive answer on how the outbreak began.
Natasha Bertrand, CNN, Washington. CHURCH: Coming up, how a Taliban rival could pose a serious threat to
the evacuations in Afghanistan. What do you need to know about ISIS-K.
Then, life under the Taliban is threatening democracy and progress in Afghanistan? We will hear from a professor who lives in Kabul and is refusing to leave. Why he is putting on a brave face and sticking it out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHURCH (on camera): Fears of a potential terror attack at the airport in Kabul, Afghanistan have the U.S., U.K., and Australia warning their citizens to stay away. A U.S. defense official tells CNN the concerns are based on a very specific threat stream from an ISIS offshoot known as ISIS-K.
And the British armed forces minister says intelligence about an imminent attack at the airport has now become much firmer. And he says the threat is severe.
Thousands of Afghans are crowded around the base's perimeter, hoping for a flight out of the country before the U.S. military mission ends next week.
Well, joining me now live from Kabul is Los Angeles Times Middle East bureau chief, Nabih Bulos. Thank you so much for talking with us.
NABIH BULOS, MIDDLE EAST BUREAU CHIEF, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Thank you for having me.
CHURCH: So, what more are you learning about this terror threat that prompted the U.S. and other allies to warn their citizens to leave the airport or at least stay away, and do you know what's happening at this time?
[03:30:00]
NABIH BULOS, MIDLE EAST BUREAU CHIEF, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Right now, we actually don't have much more detail on that. I mean, the fact of the matter is over the last few days we have seen these threats come up time and again. We had heard of four ISIS militants being arrested a few days ago near the airport.
We also heard of course, of that attack that happened where there was an unknown hostile actor that shot at Afghan forces -- (inaudible) there (inaudible) got time. But the real point is that, you know, this area is very, very full of people. It's just very crowded right now.
I mean, there are masses of people trying to get through these gates. And it would be very easy actually to slip in, you know, with a suicide belt or with a gun really and just cause mayhem. And it's worth noting that ISIS-K is an enemy of the Taliban.
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN HOST: And we know that the U.S. State Department estimates about 1,500 Americans remain in Afghanistan, still to be airlifted out. How likely is it that they will be able to get all those Americans out before the August 31st deadline? And what happens to all the Afghan allies who most likely, at this point, appear to be left behind?
BULOS: Well, that's a great question. It's still very unclear. I mean, in fact as yesterday, I was able to go to the airport's (inaudible) and actually go to the area where some of these Afghan (inaudible) are being processed.
Let me tell you, it's a lot of people. I mean, it's a huge amount of people and it's a huge effort. And I would be surprised if they could finish everything in time, but they really are trying, to be fair as well. The problem is really getting into the airport's area, right. That's, I'd (inaudible) the main issue right now. I mean, the gate that was in, which is called abby (ph) gate, you had a Taliban Red Unit.
The Taliban Special Forces actually preventing people from going in. And so, I mean, the reason there were (inaudible), of course, but there was lots of shooting, right. And all this is to say is that even if there is an ISIS threat, the fact is that you also have the threat of the Taliban themselves, I mean, with beatings and shootings, et cetera.
It's simply not a very stable situation and it's unclear to me how they can process all those people especially because it's worth noting that the U.S. Army actually has to start also withdrawing itself and that will take a few days.
CHURCH: And on Twitter, you mentioned that it looked post-apocalyptic outside the airport. Describe that to us. What did you see that made you tweet that comment?
BULOS: Well, for example, I mean, one of the gates -- I was at the east gates, you just have this under rush of clothes (ph), that all these (inaudible) clothes that are on the ground. And these are all from people's luggage that have been opened or discarded.
And then you see this concertina wire and everything is between these concrete barriers that people are just sort of squeezing into the space and looking and come pleading with the soldiers. And it just all looks very, very grim. And of course there is heat, there is dust. It's simply a very grim situation and it just -- and it looks like a bad movie, frankly.
CHURCH: Yes, absolutely. Nabih Bulos, thank you so much for talking with us and of course, do stay safe reporting there. Appreciate it.
BULOS: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
CHURCH: Well, a U.S. defense official says security concerns around the Kabul airport are based on a very specific threat stream from the terror group ISIS-K. We did mention that. CNN's Brian Todd takes a closer look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The chaos, the threats to Americans and their allies at the Kabul airport are pinned squarely on a terror group with a familiar name that has only burst into the mainstream in recent days.
COLIN CLARKE, AUTHOR, AFTER THE CALIPHATE: THE ISLAMIC STATE: My main concern is ISIS-K would look to deploy a massive bomb or a team of bombers to strike simultaneously.
TODD (voice-over): ISIS-K, the K for Khorasan, an area around the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. ISIS-K claims to be a branch of the main ISIS terror group which gained power in Syria and Iraq seven years ago.
Experts say ISIS-K comprised of some veteran jihadists from Syria and elsewhere has lost ground and manpower since 2018, but still has a presence in eastern Afghanistan and has formed cells in Kabul. In total, according to a U.N. report, they are believed to have between 1,500 and 2,200 fighters in Afghanistan.
PETER BERGEN, AUTHOR, THE RISE AND FALL OF OSAMA BIN LADEN: A lot of these are former Taliban who slapped on the ISIS patch in order to sort of make themselves the biggest, baddest guys on the block.
TODD (voice-over): But ISIS-K is now a sworn enemy of the Taliban.
BERGEN: The Taliban are fighting them, really, you know, it's more local rivalries.
TODD (voice-over): Why more broadly have the two notorious terror groups turned on each other?
CLARKE: For a number of reasons. Those range from ideological to political, to military. Frankly, ISIS doesn't believe in a political agenda. ISIS believes that only God can rule. And even though the Taliban is attempting to establish an Islamic emirate, that's not enough for ISIS. ISIS is a bit more hard-core.
TODD (voice-over): So hard-core, according to analyst Colin Clarke, that ISIS-K is thought to be even more draconian than the Taliban. In areas they control, he says, they impose harsh sharia law, execute civilians and others who they suspect are spies.
[03:35:03]
CLARKE: They want to attract and recruit the most ardent sociopaths in the country and their calling card is this, you know, rapacious and wanton violence against anyone that stands in their way. That actually helps them bring in other fighters into the organization that have a similar mindset.
TODD (voice-over): Some of those fighters have been sprung from Afghan prisons. ISIS-K has carried out several devastating suicide bombing attacks in Afghanistan in recent years, including an attack on a school for girls this spring, which according to a Pentagon assessment, killed at least 68 people, most of them girls. Another threat from ISIS-K that analysts are watching for --
CLARKE: They could wreak havoc around the airport by taking a shot at some of the aircraft that are taking off from and landing at Hamid Karzai International Airport. That's a great concern right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (on camera): Is ISIS-K a threat to wage a broader war against or even overthrow the Taliban? That terrorism experts we spoke to don't think so. The Taliban have far greater numbers of fighters, they say. ISIS-K could be a violent nuisance to the Taliban doing hit and runs, conducting IED attacks, according to experts. But they say ISIS-K is not going away without a fight. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
CHURCH: Obaidullah Baheer is a lecturer at the American University of Afghanistan who is refusing to leave the country. He recently wrote, "If we do not take a stand for what we want Afghanistan to be, our children would spit on our graves." Obaidullah Baheer joins me now from Kabul. Thank you so much for talking with us.
OBAIDULLAH BAHEER, LECTURER, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY OF AFGHANISTAN: Thank you for having me, Rosemary.
CHURCH: You are taking an incredibly brave stand here. How difficult was it for you to come to this decision even though you did have an opportunity to leave?
BAHEER: I guess the counterfactual was uglier. It's just that I cannot imagine leaving my home. I lay claim to this land as much as any Talibod. And if all of the educated people in the country whom I understand the reasons for leaving leave, they will just create an echo chamber. And then society will never have hope of being sustainable.
CHURCH: Are there many others like you who made the same decision?
BAHEER: Well, right now it's mayhem, its chaos. We can't really connect. So everyone is trying to do as much as they can. For example, there are so many vulnerable people that are falling through the cracks of this evacuation system. I have a student who was pregnant. There are other people who have the elderly or young children.
And just the scenes outside the airport make it impossible for them to get in. So, just intervening at times when we can make a difference for now is the short term, but important goal to achieve.
CHURCH: And you wrote in an article that the city had fallen before the Taliban had even entered it. And that it all happened so fast. What did you mean by that and how did it play out for you?
BAHEER: Well, that meant that I went into a meeting and by the time I was out, the world had changed. That meant people were running around, armored vehicles were trying to rush to the airport. And just the news that the Taliban had approached the city was enough for the armed forces to lay down their arms and leave their duty. That meant that for a good almost 10 hours, Kabul was completely
lawless and a lot of properties got looted. A lot of people were harmed. And then the Taliban, eventually, at night decided that they need to move into the city to protect the citizens of the city.
So, yes, it came as a shock, I reckon, even to the Taliban. They probably expected to lay siege to the city and negotiate to transition of power, but before they knew it, the president had left as well.
CHURCH: So, what is life starting to look like now under Taliban rule, nearly two weeks after that tumultuous day?
BAHEER: The banks are shuttered. They slowly started opening up yesterday, very few locations within the city. People are out of cash. The day to day commodities people consume are rising in prices. The price of the dollar has shot up. And the prices of properties are nose-diving. People cannot sell the properties that they need to in order to get out. So, and they're ghost towns.
There are ghost suburbs in Kabul right now where a lot of the rich elite left their houses filled with their furniture and it just went abroad. And what's problematic here is, again, I come back to the vulnerable people. There are people still locked up in American detention centers as well.
I fear that when the world's attention turns away from Afghanistan, their low value detainees there that have spent 15, 16 years in Camp Gitmo, there has to be a conversation about them before the United States and everyone leaves because they'll just be forgotten.
03:40:06]
And if the United States could negotiate the release of thousands of Taliban prisoners, then why not release the people that they have held in captivity that they haven't managed to file a case against for 15 years? And I think these people are really important.
And an engagement with the Taliban right now is very important because if this chain breaks, right, if the Afghan state is isolated and becomes a pariah again, do you know who pays the price? It's the common Afghan person. They will not have food to eat. They will not have a life to live. They will not have an education.
So, there has to be sense from both sides. The United States and its allies, as well as the Taliban, if we are to move forward with a sustainable or even close to a sustainable Afghanistan.
CHURCH: So, who do you blame for this turmoil in Afghanistan? Or do you see it as a very much shared by many parties and di you think it matters now? It sounds like you want to move forward and figure out what the future of Afghanistan is.
BAHEER: The problem with blaming the problem with justice is that it sometimes contradicting the idea of peace as well because imagine this. If the Taliban say that, okay, we'll give people justice. Those who were responsible need to pay the price. It will just be victor's justice. It will just come off as a crude way of consolidating power.
So, obviously, Afghan people, sentimentally, can blame. They blame the people they voted for who just left them without a political establishment, without any military apparatus left in the country. The one thing that they could have done through a transition of power was to save the armed forces from disintegrating, something that had been invested in for so long.
And then on the other -- and it's the U.S. administration as well. We didn't want foreign troops in the country, the educated people didn't want them either, but there could have been a better withdrawal. Biden says that he had -- even if he had more time, the evacuation could have gone better. That is a lie. It could have gone much better if it was done and started under the republic.
If they knew, if intelligence assessments were saying that in 90 days Kabul would fall, why didn't the evacuation start then? We wouldn't be running around aimlessly right now trying to put out a fire that was started intentionally, knowing that the fire was going to start. So, there is a lot of blame to go around and just -- we're trying to keep our chins up and trying to play with the cards that we've been dealt.
CHURCH: Obaidullah Baheer, thank you so much for talking with us. We appreciate it.
BAHEER: Thank you for having me.
CHURCH: And coming up, trying to press the reset button between Israel and the U.S., as Israel's new leader visits the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[03:45:00]
CHURCH: In just a matter of hours, the Israeli prime minister and U.S. president will meet at the White House and an Israeli officials says that while Naftali Bennett is seeking a stable relationship with the Palestinians that is not his focus right now. He is in Washington to talk about Iran. CNN's Hadas Gold has the story.
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett on Wednesday met with the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, as well as the National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan. But the main event will be the meeting on Thursday with U.S. President Joe Biden at the White House.
Now, Israeli officials told reporters there are two main objectives to this trip. The first is simply the meeting, starting that relationship between the Israeli prime minister and the American president as the two leaders have actually never met in person before, although they have spoken by phone.
For the Israeli prime minister, it is very important to show that he will have a good and strong relationship with the American president especially after 12 years of the former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, especially after those last four years of the sort of political bromance that Netanyahu had with former President Donald Trump.
The second and likely the most important objective of this meeting will be about Iran. Naftali Bennett plans to press Joe Biden on the issue of Iran. The Israelis have long opposed a return to any sort of 2015 nuclear deal and they are concerned that the Americans and European allies don't have any sort of plan beyond how to counter Iran if this nuclear deal fails to come about.
Now, Naftali Bennett will present to Biden what they are calling a holistic strategy on Iran that they say will address not only the Iranian nuclear ambitions, but also what they call the regional aggression, their activities in places like Syria and Lebanon as well as recent incidents at sea, for example, the Mercer Street cargo ship attack that both the Israelis and the Americans have attributed to Iran.
Prime Minister Naftali Bennett essentially wants a sort of regional NATO, a regional coalition of partners who will work together to counter Iranian aggression. Of course, it will be a big question, how will President Biden respond to these suggestions, and also, what will their relationship be like?
Will there be a warm relationship? What will their body language be like? All of that will be determined in that meeting on Thursday morning at the White House. But for the Israelis, top of mind will be Iran as they believe that just time is continuing to run out. Hadas Gold, CNN, Washington.
CHURCH: A new report shows Europe and the Arctic experienced record heat in 2020. The American Meteorological Society says last year was the hottest on record. Average temperatures in Europe were 1.9 degrees celsius higher than usual. And the increase was even worse in the Arctic, more than 2 degrees above normal.
The concentration of global warming greenhouse gases in the atmosphere reached a new high last year, and that happened even though carbon dioxide emissions declined because of the economic slowdown caused by the pandemic.
Well, just ahead, we will explain what happens after the evacuees leave Afghanistan. Plus, a conversation with a human rights activists who recently left Kabul. What's she has to say about the Taliban and the situation there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[03:50:00]
CHURCH: The Pentagon says it's evacuated several thousand Americans out of Afghanistan. And now only hundred remain, but the exact number has been hard to pin down. CNN's national security correspondent Kylie Atwood reports from Washington.
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Secretary of State Tony Blinken said there may be up to 1,500 Americans who are still in Afghanistan and need U.S. assistance getting out of the country. Now, the reason that the State Department can't give a definitive number for the Americans still in the country is because when they traveled to Afghanistan they don't have to register with the State Department.
So, of the 1,500, there are about 1,000 people on the list who may not actually be Americans, maybe Americans who want to stay in the country, or maybe Americans who have already left Afghanistan. But what is assured is that the United States is in touch with 500 Americans in the last 24 hours providing them with assistance in order to get to the airport safely.
So, ballpark figure, we're looking at between 500 and 1,500 Americans that still need to get out of Afghanistan. Now, with regard to the Taliban, the Secretary of State said that they are, like it or not, in control of Afghanistan right now.
That is the reason, of course, getting out those Americans that the United States has had to engage with the Taliban on a daily, if not, hourly basis for the last few weeks. On the future of the U.S.-Taliban relationship, he says that will be determined by what is in the best interest of the United States and that will be a factor of how the Taliban act, what their leadership looks like in Afghanistan going forth. Kylie Atwood, CNN, Washington.
CHURCH: U.S. troops are also racing to evacuate America's Afghan allies. On Wednesday, the U.S. State Department said more than 82,000 people, including Americans have been evacuated so far -- 19,000 of them were airlifted on Tuesday alone. But with the clock ticking down, it's becoming increasingly likely that many thousands will still be left behind. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports from Doha, Qatar.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice-over): It was the day that felt like the beginning of the end. U.S. troops and Australian, Italians, Canadians, and Turkish had started leaving. In the morning, 1,000 evacuees on the base. But by afternoon, 10, said the Pentagon. The pace of departures apparently a little slow in the morning.
But a stunning 19,000 taken off in the last 24 hour period, capping a remarkable three days. A source said SIV applicants were struggling to get in, and at the walls, this appalling scene show the impossible task of picking one from the crowd. Outside the airport, Taliban blocked some.
(VIDEO PLAYING)
Beating this man. So, it is a horrific gauntlet, through the Taliban, then on to the gates and walls, and then on to an airfield where the task is soon to rapidly turn from evacuation to withdrawal. Some of the last troops to leave America's longest war, in circumstances, the president said were "inevitable." Yet, must surely have been a little at least avoidable. Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Doha.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHURCH: Joining me now from Washington D.C. via Skype is Afghan human rights activists Zubaida Akbar. Thank you so much for talking with us.
ZUBAIDA AKBAR, AFGHAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Thank you for having me.
CHURCH: Now, you last live in Afghanistan back in 2018, but you did return in late July to visit your family there. Now, as you watch the takeover of your country by the Taliban and the evacuation process from afar, what are your biggest concerns, particularly for women who are now being told, by the Taliban, to stay home for their own safety?
AKBAR: Well, I am extremely concerned for the safety of women across Afghanistan. We have been hearing from the news from different provinces of Afghanistan that the Taliban are still practicing their old laws. They are suppressing women especially women who were active in the society, who were taking part in political life, female journalists.
People -- women who were not at the society level, but then also they are -- it seems that they have the same views about girl's education, and women's presence in public spaces in general.
[03:55:06]
So, we are scared, we are angry about everything that we have lost. Women had made a lot of gains in the past 20 years and they had hopes and dreams for the future. It seems that what we had gained we have lost, and then our hopes and dreams for the future have been shattered.
CHURCH: Some critics suggest that the reason Afghanistan fell to the Taliban was because Afghans were not ready or able to govern. What do you say to those critics?
AKBAR: There are no questions about the problems that the Afghan government had, the corruption that was in the system and the problems that our military had. But I think when the world decided to leave Afghanistan, and NATO decided to start its gradual withdrawal, it put the Afghan military in a weaker spot in terms of fighting the war against the Taliban. They lost their resources.
As the NATO started its gradual withdrawal, the contractors left and Afghan military did not have the same support in fighting the Taliban as they did before. This, obviously, impacted the result of the war.
CHURCH: Zubaida Akbar, thank you so much for joining us. We do appreciate it.
AKBAR: Thank you.
CHURCH: Well, it was a glimmer of hope amid the crisis in Afghanistan. A baby girl born in the cargo bay of a U.S. military plane just moments after it landed. And now we have learned her parents have named their daughter Reach after the call sign of the plane that carried them safely from Qatar to Germany. Officials say she is one of three babies born during the evacuations from Afghanistan so far. And that is it for this hour of "CNN Newsroom." Thank you so much for
your company. I'm Rosemary Church. More news now with Kim Brunhuber after a short break. You have a great day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
