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Senior Official Says, Threat is Still Out There as Evacuations Push Ahead; Biden Vows to Hunt Down Those Who Killed 13 U.S. Service Members; Biden Defends U.S. Coordination with Taliban to Secure Airport Perimeter. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 27, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A good Friday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

The terror threat is still out there as the United States pushes forward with evacuations ahead of Tuesday's withdrawal deadline as set by the president. Pentagon officials say another attack could come at any moment, this after 13 U.S. service members and more than 90 Afghan civilians were killed in twin attacks outside of Kabul's Hamid Karzai International Airport.

The White House and U.S. Capitol are flying the flag at half-staff in honor of those fallen service members. President Biden plans to contact their families soon and is vowing retribution against those responsible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: We will hunt you down and make you pay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Right now, things are remarkably calm, empty around the Kabul airport. Many people appears too scared to crowd at those entrances, as the focus turns to getting people, for the U.S. at least, with special last-minute access request to the airport.

A source told CNN there were about 4,500 people at the airport awaiting departure, that is inside the gates as of this morning. About 12,500 people were evacuated in the last 24-hour period. In total now, the U.S. has evacuated more than 100,000 people, this since August 14th.

We have a team of reporters, as we do every morning, covering this story for all angles. We're going to begin with CNN's Nick Paton Walsh in Doha.

Tell us the status of the evacuation. I mean, it should be noted that even in minutes following this attack, flights were still taking off and they've continued. How are they managing that and with what sort of pace? NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes. I mean, it is quite clear, it seems, that the security, situation is playing on how fast the evacuation can go. But it also appears it is sort of still sticking to the same timetable, if that makes any sense.

A source I spoke to directly familiar with the situation at the airport said it that looked like the noncombat evacuation operation was winding down today. I should point out, the Department of Defense and White House have been clear they will continue to evacuate people to the end of the operation. But, practically, as the troops withdraw, you will presumably have less processing power, less aircraft power to evacuate people.

4,500 at one point this morning on the airport. That's is not a reflection of the day's ambition because that number has been roughly similar, because, as people come on, they also leave in aircraft too.

Who is coming on? Well, the issue today appears to be that there are a number of these sort of last minute high-priority requests trying to get on to the base. That is difficult to achieve at the moment. The source I spoke saying they're unsure how many they can get in with so much Taliban coordination required, essentially because the gates are closed, Abbey Gates, where the blast was yesterday, remains closed.

There is not an official open route to bring people in. So, they're essentially having to use escorts, convoys in coordination with the Taliban to bring people through the southern entrance where the Taliban are on to the U.S. and NATO-controlled side. That requires coordination, timeslots, and I understand we've seen pictures of them yesterday that there are buses going around the airport trying to find a way in.

One piece of good news, I understand that, today, the locally employed Afghan staff who worked for the U.S. embassy, all of them are expected to be on the base, the airport and taken away to safety. That is a no small feat given they possibly numbered in their 4,000, including immediate family members there as well, so, some good news there.

Unclear how many American citizens are still being looked for. The U.S. State Department said about a thousand yesterday but their statement was a little confusing. It talked about two-thirds having already made plans to leave. The source I spoke to said, frankly, if you haven't as an American citizen made your way to the airport or being brought to the airport by now, it is pretty unclear if you actually do want to leave, indeed.

But it is a situation where we've seen the U.K. now described their departure window from the base entirely is in the next matter of hours. The Spanish have left, and so there is a dwindling presence here, certainly. And you're going to have to think in the hours ahead quite exactly how much more evacuation could be done. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Well even as you've been speaking, we saw yet another jet taxiing along the runway there. It does appear that those flights are still underway. Nick Paton Walsh, thanks very much. Right now, the White House is making plans for the president to contact the families, each one of them, of those 13 fallen service members, Marines, as well as a Navy service member.

CNN's John Harwood joins me now from the White House. John, this is personal for this president, for any commander-in-chief. You saw it in President Biden's face yesterday and, of course, his son was in the military. He lost his son not during military service, to cancer, but he knows loss.

[10:05:03]

So what is his message expected to be to those families?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jim, once the military finishes its next of kin notification procedure, the president will reach out to those families and his message will be a more intimate version of the one he gave to the nation yesterday, which is sharing in the grief of those families over the loss of life, hailing their selfless sacrifice, that is putting themselves, putting their own lives in danger to try to save the lives of others and also to indicate that the message -- the mission that took their lives is going to continue for the next five days, at least. And that is trying to get as many of those Americans and vulnerable Afghan allies out.

But the president acknowledged few hundred Americans left, thousands more Afghan allies left to be evacuated. He acknowledged yesterday in his remarks that not all of them are going to make their way to the airport and on those flights out of Kabul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: What do you say to the Afghans who helped troops who may not be able to get out by August 31st?

BIDEN: I say --

REPORTER: What do you say to them?

BIDEN: -- we're going to try to get you out. It matters.

Getting every single person out is -- can't be guaranteed by anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: Now, of course, the president has said that efforts to extract people who deserve to get out by virtue of having helped American military activities and NATO military activities will continue past August 31st. obviously, that will be much, much more difficult without the U.S. military. It will depend on cooperation from the Taliban.

But, so far, with five days left to go, those evacuations continue. As you indicated, 12,500 yesterday, over 100,000 evacuees since August 14th, Jim. SCIUTTO: It is a remarkable number. And, John, by the way, as you were speaking there, and that is a live camera, a live view of the Kabul airport. We saw yet one more of those military jets, I believe a C-17, take off, hopefully bringing people to safety. John Harwood, thank you.

The U.S. said the threat from ISIS-K is still imminent. The Pentagon is prepared to take action. The president says he will grant additional forces if needed.

CNN's Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon with more. And, Barbara, that was news from the president's press conference yesterday saying that he has reached out to the military for target options against ISIS-K in response to this attack. Do we have any more details?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: We do not. The military, always likes to say, it has options. But, look, they are really focused right now on getting to August 31st and maintaining security at the airport. I think, fair to say, they are looking at what they can potentially do from the air with Special Forces. But getting the intelligence, the precise intelligence to target ISIS may be very difficult in the coming days. So they're focused on getting to the August 31st deadline and pressing the Taliban to improve security even in these final days.

The top U.S. military commander talked about what they want the Taliban to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. KENNETH MCKENZIE, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We've reached out with Taliban. We've told them, you need to continue to push out the security perimeter. We've identified some roads that we would like for them to close. They've identified that they will be willing to close the roads because we assess the threats of a suicide-borne vehicle threat is high right now. So we want to reduce the possibility of one of those vehicles getting close. So we're actually moving very aggressively to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: So, barring the unforeseen, as you and I have chatted, Jim, when that final last U.S. military plane rolls down the runway at the airport, the Taliban will be in charge of the airport. They will be in charge of air traffic control, they will man the gates, they will take care of all security because that will be the last troops out of America's longest war. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Still so amazing to listen to a uniformed U.S. officer describe cooperation agreements with the Taliban, who the U.S. has fought there for 20 some odd years. It is remarkable.

Tell us, Barbara, what you can about the 13 service members killed in the attacks in Kabul. The president is going to be speaking to their families today. These are people with families, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children. STARR: Well, let's start from point number one, which is the rest of us will not know the identities of these fallen until the final family notification is fully made. The military is stringent about that. They do want families to hear about it from the news media. They want to tell the families themselves.

Commanders-in-chief very often reach out to the families. There will be quiet efforts behind the scenes to make sure the families, the next of kin are up to it, that they are able to take a phone call from the president, that they wish to talk to the president.

[10:10:03]

Many families do. There may have been families in the past that do not or are just not up to it at the moment. So these are very typical things.

We know there were ten Marine Corps families and now this morning the Navy confirming that one of the fallen is indeed a Navy sailor. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Sad news. Barbara Starr, thanks very much.

More than 110,000 people now have been evacuated by the U.S. and its allies from Afghanistan since late July. But President Biden says there are more Americans trying to get out before his Tuesday withdrawal deadline.

CNN's Kylie Atwood, she is at the State Department with more. And, Kylie, the math is difficult to follow here. And we should note, it is not like the U.S. has a list of the number of Americans in really any country at any one time but they've been trying to reach out to Americans there. Do they have a handle on how many remain and who wants to leave?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, we don't have an exact figure right now of the Americans that are still in Afghanistan but we have some rough estimates to work with. It looks like fewer than a thousand Americans still there, probably somewhere in the hundreds that are still looking to get out of the country.

And the reason that we've landed on those numbers is because the State Department says that they have been in contact with about a thousand Americans that they believe are still in the country. And about two- thirds of those, so somewhere around 700, are taking steps to leave the country. Some of those are nearly left the country or already on their way out. That was as of yesterday.

And we know, Jim, that, overnight, there were about 12,000 people that left the airport -- that left the airport in Kabul in the last 24-hour period, so, presumably, some of those were Americans. So, you continue to cut down on that number. We'll wait for an update from the State Department as to where that number stands today.

But I think it is also important to note that some Americans, probably not many, but some, may choose to stay in Afghanistan. They may have people that they are close with and they don't want to leave. So that is another complicating factor here.

The other part of all of this is the Afghans who are trying to get out of the country, thousands of them who have tried to get out. As you guys were discussing earlier, President Biden said, we will continue to try to get them out. But just to how successful the Biden administration will be after August 31st is still really an open question. Jim?

SCIUTTO: No question. Well, we hope they find safety. Kylie Atwood at the State Department, thanks very much.

Still to come this hour, how will the U.S. hunt down the terrorists behind the attack in Kabul as the president has vowed to do and withdraw U.S. forces by Tuesday's deadline? I'm going to speak with former top military commanders on potential strategy, capability, next.

Plus, a bloody and ruthless track record of terror. We're going to take a closer look at ISIS-K or the Islamic State in Khorasan. Who are they, what challenges they pose even for the Taliban?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: Just hours after the deadly attack outside of the airport in Kabul that killed 13 U.S. service members, President Biden said that he is standing behind his decision to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by his deadline next week and he defended the U.S. strategy of coordinating with the Taliban to secure at least the perimeter of the airport. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: No one trusts them. We just are counting on their self- interest to continue to generate their activities.

There is no evidence thus far that I've been given as a consequence by any of our commanders in the field that there has been collusion between the Taliban and ISIS in carrying out what happened today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now, retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. He is the former assistant secretary of state for Political Military Affairs under President George W. Bush and retired Lieutenant Colonel Jodi Vittori, she served in Afghanistan and Iraq, now is a professor and co-chair of Global Politics and Security at Georgetown University. Thanks so much to both of you for joining us this morning.

Mark, General Kimmitt, if I could begin with you. You've been sounding the alarm about the risk of the U.S. relying on the Taliban for security and safe passage for some time. Did we see that bare out yesterday?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET.), FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL-MILITARY AFFAIRS: Well, I think the issue is we're really not coordinating with the Taliban. This is hostage negotiations. The fact remains that we are held hostage by the Taliban for the release of American citizens. So, I wouldn't trust the Taliban. There is no reason to trust the Taliban. And whether they allowed that suicide bomber to come through their ranks intentionally or because they didn't have the capability to check, they bear the responsibility for what happened yesterday.

SCIUTTO: Do you suspect it could have been intentional? General McMaster was on our air yesterday as this was playing out and he raised that very possibility.

KIMMITT: I really can't answer that. But what I can tell you is that anybody that believes that the Taliban are a monolithic block, they aren't. Individual field commanders make their own choices. So this could have been a couple of Taliban that were taking orders from a different group than say the negotiators who we've worked with in Doha or the head of the Haqqani Network.

[10:20:05]

SCIUTTO: Well, either way, they failed.

Lieutenant Colonel Vittori, you've been trying to get colleagues, friends of those with SIVs, special immigrant visas, out of Afghanistan. These are Afghans and I've been doing my best as well as many are who served with the U.S. and, therefore, are under threat from the Taliban and others. Do you believe that that door is slammed shut for them now?

LT. COL. JODI VITTORI, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.)/SERVED IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ: In some ways, the door is quite literally slammed shut. There are reports that the gate has literally been welded shut to prevent people from coming in and understandable force protection measure. But, literally, the door is slammed shut. Right now, they seem to be clearing just the airfield of those who are already there and it does look like very few of those were Afghan SIV members or other vulnerable Afghans.

And there is another issue that is not being discussed here, which is what happens after the military air bridge ends on October 31st. Even if the Taliban can get the airfield running again, commercial air operations cannot resume in Afghanistan any time soon because that airport will not meet ICAO standards. So, even if the Taliban get the airfield running, take Ariana Aircraft and start flying them again, they can fly them domestically all they want. They can take them off out of the country but they can't land in any other country because they don't meet standards and other countries aren't going to let them land.

SCIUTTO: I mean, I imagine relying on the Taliban to secure international flights. So, what happens then to SIVs, as they're known, that are left behind? Do they have any way out? I read that the Pakistan is blocking access across the land border.

VITTORI: It's -- as I watched the text messages coming in from colleagues and friends on the ground, that is the decision that families are making now. They're all running short of cash because the banking system is collapsing and there are sanctions and the Federal Reserve is holding that Afghan money right now. They're running short of phone credits because they don't have cash. And do they make a run for the border and pray they can get across? Can they get across such a large territory even to get toward the border and what do they do when they get there?

These are the terrible decisions that families are making as we speak, families with infants and small children and grandmothers and stuff. It is awful, awful to see the texts coming through on my phone.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It is a five-hour drive to the Pakistan border from Kabul, and that road controlled oftentimes by bandits.

General Kimmitt, President Biden, as you know, has now vowed to hold these people to account, right, to hunt down those responsible for the attacks yesterday. But the U.S. is pulling its boots. It's already pulled a lot of intel capabilities. Can it still credibly carry out counter-terror attacks like that without a physical presence on ground?

KIMMITT: Look, we know that over-the-horizon operations are extraordinarily difficult. We saw that with the raid to go get bin Laden in a friendly country, Pakistan. So one can only imagine how difficult it will be and how risky it will be for U.S. forces to get in there and get on the ground, get these people out.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Colonel Vittori, Lieutenant Colonel, the U.S. may have to talk to the Taliban after August 31st, right? I mean, this will be a country, in effect, run by the Taliban. The U.S. speaks to adversaries who-- hostile adversaries who run other countries and the president has raised the possibility of saying, hey, listen, our efforts to get people out will not end on August 31st. So what do those efforts look like? Is there any potential for negotiating with the Taliban and saying, we're going to get these people out this way or is that a fool's errand?

VITTORI: Well, they're going to have no but to negotiate with the Taliban. But, as everyone has pointed out, the ball is really in the Taliban's court as to whether they want to play ball or not. There is only a certain areas of leverage that the United States has and those sources of leverage aren't that strong.

One is the goal of international aid that the Taliban would like to have because 80 percent of the Afghan budget was foreign aid-based and they would like to get some of the aid back.

Second is international recognition and the trade ties and the travel abilities that come with it, that would also include presumably being able to reopen the international airports.

And then finally is leverage the United States has because the Taliban, many of its senior leaders are organized crime mafia bosses. They have with their money laundering networks have put a lot of their money overseas. If we know where that money is, we might be able to hold some of that money or threaten that money for asset freezes and so forth if they don't comply or if they're outside of certain red lines. But there is not a whole lot of leverage out there.

[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: No, there is not.

General Kimmitt, before we go, the president will have another withdrawal decision on Iraq at the end of the year. We have a small footprint of forces there. But they're not there forever. What happens there? Hard to predict how the president decides, but if the U.S. were to say, okay, we're done with that endless war as well, what does Iraq look like?

KIMMITT: Well, first of all, we have got a contingent inside of Iraq that is focused exclusively on containing and defeating ISIS. So, we are pretty much the backbone of the Iraqi security forces the way we should have been the backbone for the Afghan security forces. They're pretty much on their own right now. They're capable of running their own operations themselves. The real question is will they be responding to Baghdad or will the forces respond to Tehran after we leave.

SCIUTTO: Big questions. General Kimmitt, Lieutenant Colonel Vittori, thanks so much to both of you and to the work you're doing. I know you're trying to save lives over there.

Well, the danger level is high in the final days of the evacuations and withdrawal from Afghanistan. U.S. officials now reportedly telling their contacts on the ground to go dark. What does that mean? What our analysts are hearing from sources on the ground who were in danger, next.

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