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U.S. to Hunt Terrorists in Afghanistan; British Troops Pulling out of Kabul; Afghanis Are Now Under the Evil and the Worse; Terrorists Take Advantage of Chaos in Kabul; Kabul Airport Attack; Pentagon Warns Another Attack Could Be Imminent; President Biden's Political Future; Thousands Pass Through U.S. Air Base In Germany. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired August 27, 2021 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Hello, and welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. I appreciate your company.

Coming up this hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We will hunt you down and make you pay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES (on camera): The U.S. president vow to avenge American military deaths, but with the U.S. exit just days away, going after a terror group presents a challenge. The attack could complicate the already chaotic evacuations but the Pentagon says, that mission is still on track.

And there's already political outcry from Republicans, some even calling for President Biden's resignation.

It is now 11.30 in the morning in Kabul, Afghanistan where schools of people are still hoping to leave the country still gathering at that airport despite a pair of deadly suicide bombings. More than 90 Afghans and 13 U.S. servicemembers were killed on Thursday. The commander of the U.S. Central Command warning this might be just the beginning and more attack -- attacks are suspected.

The Jihadist group as ISIS-K is claiming responsibility for the bombings, one near the airport's main entrance for evacuees, the other at the nearby Baron hotel which British troops had been using to process evacuees.

U.S. President Joe Biden asking the military for options to avenge the attack. CNN's Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann with that, and a warning his report contains graphic images.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The chaos outside of Kabul airport became a catastrophe Thursday afternoon when two bombings tore through the crowds, killing 13 U.S. servicemembers and dozens of Afghan civilians.

President Joe Biden promising that they will strike ISIS-K and the others who attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We will not forgive. We will not forget. We will hunt you down, and make you pay. I will defend our interest and our people with every measure at our command.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: This graphic video, laying bare the horror of the attacks, the victims thrown across the street. This man able to sit up after the attack, unlike so many others. Afghans so desperate to flee the country now racing to get the wounded medical help, even pushing some of the injured in makeshift wheelbarrows.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH MCKENZIE, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: The threat from ISIS is real. We believe it's their desire to continue those attacks and we expect those attacks to continue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: On Wednesday, the U.S. warned of threats to the airport, telling Americans to stay away from three different gates. Abbey, east, and north gates and only to approach the field when instructed. A suicide bomber passed through a Taliban-controlled security checkpoint, somehow, and approach the Abbey gate where U.S. forces doing another of screening. It's a moment of vulnerability, U.S. servicemember face to face with an unscreened outsider.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENZIE: These gates where people actually come on the airfield, there is no substitute for a young -- for a young man or woman, a young United States man or woman standing up, they're conducting a search of that person before they let him on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: These are the first U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan since February of last year shortly before the signing of the agreement that began this withdrawal. The news of troops killed coming just five days about 100 hours before the August 31st deadline to withdraw from Afghanistan. Still, the evacuation operations continue including for the few

hundred U.S. citizens the State Department believes are still in Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We will continue after our troops are withdrawn to find the means by which we define any American, who wishes to get out of Afghanistan. We will find them, and we will get them out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: The Taliban say they will seek justice for the attack as coordination between U.S. forces and the Taliban continues. U.S. commanders on the ground have asked the Taliban to push out the security corridor around the airfield and shared some information to prevent attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENZIE: We believe it's possible that others have been thwarted. We should cut down the information we give the Taliban, they don't get the full range of information we have, but we give them enough to act in time and space to try to prevent these attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN (on camera): Biden vow that the U.S. military would attack ISIS-K in the wake of these twin terrorist bombings, but it's a more difficult challenge. First, the assets are certainly there, whether it's attacking from overhead with fighter jets or gunships or carrying out a drone attack. The difficult problem is in terms of intelligence. W

Without U.S. troops on the ground to gather intelligence about ISIS-K, it becomes increasingly difficult to know where and whom to target as the U.S. is looking for how to carry out a retaliatory strike for these twin bombings. It's also a question of what's the risk involve here? Do you want to carry out the strikes while there are still carried out while U.S. troops and U.S. personnel on the ground? Or, do you wait until the withdrawal is complete, and then carry out what the Pentagon has called over the horizon strikes from outside of Afghanistan?

[03:05:05]

Oren Liebermann, CNN, at the Pentagon.

HOLMES: CNN international security editor Nick Paton Walsh recently spent time in Afghanistan at that very airport. He's live for us now in Doha at Qatar. Good to see you, Nick. What more are you learning about what happened there, and importantly, what might be yet to come?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes. I mean, obviously, the threat has been made utterly clear by U.S. officials continues. And you can see today on some of the images posted on social media, there appear to be a lot of people outside Abbey gate again despite the explosion yesterday. That shows you really the desperation of those going to be evacuated.

Trying to work out exactly how this happened, of course, is vital for U.S. marines trying to secure those gates, and possibly see if they can think about getting anybody else in. Although I have to say that in itself would seem like an exceptionally fraught task given the size of those crowds and what happened yesterday.

There appear to be two explosions, the first the suicide bomber who ISIS have said it was from the Logar province of Afghanistan. He seems to have got close to marines who were doing the vetting of people than then allow into Abbey gate. That's one of the main gates that the very few numbers of SIV applicants have been managed to get into the airport through.

It's near the Baron hotel where the British have stayed. They've actually just said that they're out of there now and on their way of the country in a matter of hours. That particular search place is normally where people who've been selected get patted down.

General McKenzie, the CENCOM commander talks about how the marines doing the searching would have felt the breath of the person on them searching. That is unlikely to have happened unless the person in question have been select from the crowd. They don't just search everybody on their way in.

So, questions will of course be asked is to how that person came to end up being searched. The bomb has went off in that area, there are quite a few marines close together that may explain the horrifying number of dead from this. And then also, too, the number of Afghans who were also killed as well now over 90.

There's a sewage docked along there with razor wire intensely packed crowds all bustled in, showing their paperwork, essentially their cases where they should be allowed on to the airport. We then understand that there was another explosion near the Baron hotel, not far away. It could have been designed to follow up exactly there. We don't exactly know its precise location, but then CENCOM are clear in saying there was gunfire that targeted civilians.

So, it looks like we are dealing with two certainly, possibly three attackers, or possibly four. I mean, the fact that the CENCOM referred to gunmen and they are being two separate explosions. So there of course be questions as to how that size of an attack got through the Taliban checkpoint, particularly if there are individuals there who were in fact armed.

So, many questions to be answered here certainly, but the biggest one I think for today for the urgent evacuation operation that the U.S. is insisting is continuing, is how do you get people through those gates at all with this sort of security risk? Michael?

HOLMES: Yes. Absolutely. Nick Paton Walsh, I appreciate the analysis there. Thanks for that. Let's turn now to CNN's Arlette Saenz who has reaction from the White

House. Our Natasha Bertrand is covering the U.S. State Department. Let's start with you, Arlette.

Obviously, this was the worst-case scenario for President Biden. He is saying he will hunt down and make pay, those who did this. Is there any indication how?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's exactly what President Biden is trying to work through at this moment as he is vowing retaliation for this terror attack at the Kabul airport. Now the president when he was delivering remarks at the White House yesterday, said that he has asked his military commanders to draw up options for how to respond to this, including possible strikes against ISIS-K, assets and leadership.

The president has said that they have an idea of who might have been responsible for this attack, but they are still working on that full ascertainment. This comes at a time when the president and top military officials have warned that another attack from that Islamic state offshoot could be possible -- possibly, imminent as that August 31st deadline for a drawdown approaches.

Right now, you have this administration really operating on dual tracks. Trying to identify and find and hold responsible the people who perpetrated this attack at the Kabul airport. And also, safely evacuate Americans and as many Afghan allies as possible over the course of the next four days.

Now the president has been undeterred from that August 31st drawdown deadline. In fact, he pointed to that terror attack as further evidence for why the U.S. needs to complete this mission in Afghanistan. The U.S. has tried to establish contact with the majority of Americans remaining in the country.

[03:10:02]

The president did note that there are some Americans who do not want to leave. It might be for various reasons including potentially having large families who would not be able to travel with them. But the president and his team are keenly aware that the clock is ticking on getting these Americans out of Afghanistan safely.

And for the time being, they are sticking to that August 31st deadline. Though the president has said that if people, if Afghan allies remain in the country past that deadline, that there will be other ways to extract them and evacuate them from the country. But of course, there will be questions about how that will play out without a large military presence in Afghanistan as that deadline is quickly approaching on Tuesday.

HOLMES: All right. Arlette Saenz, thanks so much. I appreciate it. Let's turn now to you, Natasha Bertrand. I'm curious what are you hearing about these continued threats, but also how they might impact the evacuations and how they are going to proceed? NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, yes, as if the

evacuations weren't facing enough hurdles. Now, obviously this massive terrorist threat as we saw today is going to likely create even more of a bottleneck. The U.S. has asked the Taliban to push the perimeter out further to prevent potential terrorists from getting close to the airport. But the U.S. still remains a big target obviously.

What we're hearing from General McKenzie today is that the threat of vehicle borne improvised explosive device attacks remains high. The threat of potential suicide bombers, of rocket attacks, ISIS attackers even going as far as shoot at the aircraft as it departs from the airport.

All of these things are factoring into the U.S.'s decision to leave by Tuesday, but also try to ensure too, you know, the extent possible that troops on the ground there remain safe. That is their number one priority at this point. And so, it remains to be seen how this is going to impact the process and getting people into the airport which is already been pretty fraught.

U.S. citizens obviously are still the priority there. And there are about 1,000 U.S. citizens still trying to get out of the country. You know, Biden acknowledged today that there are going to be people left behind.

This is what U.S. officials have been telling us and our team here repeatedly over the last couple of days or so. Is that, inevitably there are going to be people here that are left behind that is just the nature of this operation that the Biden administration is very determine to end this by August 31, obviously, preserving those counterterrorism capabilities over the horizon if those become necessary.

But for now, you know, the intelligence continues to flow in about the imminence of these ISIS attacks. And those are the kinds of attacks that the president obviously wants to avoid at all cost.

HOLMES: All right. Natasha Bertrand, good to see you. Thanks for that update.

And actually, just in the last few minutes, too, I want to tell you we've learned that British officials say the U.K. has now entered its final stages of evacuations. The minister of defense saying that the processing facilities inside Kabul's Baron hotel have closed. And efforts will be focused on evacuating remaining British nationals and others awaiting to park at the airport.

He says that the decision reflects the latest understanding of the situation on the ground. The U.K. has evacuated more than 13,000 people over the last 14 days.

We are going to take a break on the program. When we come back, we'll take a closer look at the bloody and ruthless track record of the terror group claiming responsibility for the Kabul attack. We will be right back.

[03:15:00]

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HOLMES (on camera): U.S. President Joe Biden vows to hunt down and punish those responsible for the deadly Kabul attack. The Islamic state affiliate ISIS-K claiming that it is behind the suicide blast which killed more than 13 U.S. servicemembers and dozens of Afghans. President Biden said the U.S. will move forward with evacuations but made it clear that the nation will neither forgive, nor forget.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We will not be deterred by terrorists. We will not let them stop our mission. We will continue the evacuation. I've also ordered my commanders to develop operational plans to strike ISIS-K assets, leadership and facilities. We will respond with force and precision and at out at the place we choose and a moment of our choosing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES (on camera): All right. Let's take a closer look for a closer look at ISIS-K. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh joins me now from Istanbul. She's extensively covered the rise and fall of ISIS in Iraq.

So, Jo, the ISIS-K carried out some brutal devastating attacks in the past. We're talking about schoolgirls, maternity hospitals, and so on. What do we know about their capabilities in Afghanistan at the moment?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Michael, they have been a threat, a major threat according to U.S. officials in the country. They have been the target of military operations, counterterrorism operations in the country, and as you mentioned, we've seen those devastating attacks since 2016.

And also, in recent months, they have shown the ability to choose their targets, carry out the attacks wherever and whatever they want, Michael. They have remained a serious threat in the country.

[03:19:56]

Now when it comes to their numbers there's all sorts of estimates something around 1,000 to 1,500. But what has really concerned officials, and we've heard this from U.S. military officials also in recent, as well as President Biden.

These prison breaks that you saw in Afghanistan as the Taliban swept across the country, hundreds of ISIS prisoners who were released from these prisons and who are believed to have joined the ranks of these groups. Really raising concerns about their ability to carry out more of these devastating attacks.

I think what is very interesting, Michael, here is of course, that, you know, if you look at Thursday's attacks this was, again, what would be describe as a complex coordinated attack but also a target of opportunity. You have these large crowds. You and I have covered this sort of bombings in the past, different

groups whether it's ISIS or others have carried out very similar attacks, it doesn't take much to inflict maximum damage, maximum casualties, the horror that we saw unfold on Thursday by infiltrating these large crowds.

I think one thing to keep an eye on what U.S. officials might say in the coming hours, coming days about their bomb making abilities, what sort of forensics is going to come of this investigation in terms of the explosive uses, the device that was used, very important to keep an eye on.

Something that is also very concerning, Michael, they found in that claim of responsibility by that group, ISIS-K, they say that not only were they targeting U.S. military servicemembers, they were also targeting what they described as the collaborators, the spies, the translators who work for the Americans. Really again underscoring the kind of risk America's allies and partners are facing right now with the fears that they are going to be left behind, Michael.

HOLMES: Yes, many most certainly will. Jomana Karadsheh, I appreciate it. Thanks so much.

So if ISIS-K is behind the airport attack as it claims, what was the group hoping to accomplish?

To discuss all of this, Sajjan Gohel joins me now from London. He is the international security director for the Asia-Pacific Foundation and an expert on terrorism.

Good to have you with us.

We've heard the U.S. president and others say that, you know, ISIS-K is a sworn enemy of the Taliban. But you're right about how the relationship is more murkier than that, that in many ways they're intertwined?

SAJJAN GOHEL, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, ASIA PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Indeed, Michael. There are many shades of gray between ISIS-K and the Taliban. They will fight and kill each other on one day and they will potentially then cooperate the next day for strategic reasons, mutual interest, convergence such as, for example, trying to force the western troops out of Afghanistan.

And you also have to remember that ISIS-K are made up of Pashtuns from both Pakistan and Afghanistan. They are ethnic tribal clan lineages with the Taliban. Some ISIS fighters are married to Taliban fighters or families and vice versa. So, it is a much more murkier nexus then perhaps looking it from a black and white perspective.

HOLMES: Yes. That's fascinating. I guess when it comes to this attack, tactically it achieves exactly what ISIS likes to do, American casualties primarily, but also chaos on the ground. What else might ISIS-K be looking to do, and what does this attack suggest about its reach and capability in Afghanistan? GOHEL: Well, if we look at some of the attacks that they have carried

out over the last year, you mentioned the attack on the maternity ward. They murdered women who are in the process of giving birth. They targeted a girl's school. And dozens of young children were murdered, and of course, now this very awful and horrific attack at the airport.

It's about power. It's about control and intimidation. They want to show the Afghans that they are there, that they have a stake in Afghanistan's very dystopian future now that the west is leaving, and that they are going to compete with the Taliban for control of the country. And unfortunately, the Afghan people are sandwich now between the Taliban on one side and ISIS-K on the other side.

HOLMES: Yes. Well, pick a choice between who is more brutal. I want to ask you this, too. Because, you know, the U.S. pounded ISIS-K, you know, relentlessly for a while and they sort of went quiet. How much of an impact did the Taliban's release of ISIS prisoners during their sweep across the country have on ISIS-K's operating strength?

[03:24:54]

GOHEL: Well, certainly, ISIS-K's ability to operate has been enhanced and increase after the Taliban freed dozens of their prisoners, if not hundreds from various jails across Afghanistan as the Taliban were sweeping across Afghanistan.

There are also ISIS-K fighters that have now emerge from the woodwork that were based in Pakistan. And therein lies another problem is the fact that it wasn't just the Taliban that were lying low in Pakistan but ISIS-K fighters too. And then questions still remain about Pakistan's role in all of this. Because they haven't just aided and abetted the Taliban in the past, but possibly ISIS-K for their own strategic reasons because they would have this aspect of strategic depth for Afghanistan.

And again, the concern is that what role will Pakistan play in Afghanistan's future, especially vis-a-vis all these groups when you've got Imran Khan's government wanting to try and get international recognition and legitimization for the Taliban. But how can one do that when they retain these older ties with all these different terrorist groups who are murdering civilians and also, we are looking at the death of 13 U.S. marines who are trying to save lives in Afghanistan.

HOLMES: Yes. Yes. It's a complex neighborhood, that's for sure. I wish we had more time. Sajjan Gohel, I really appreciate the analysis as always. Thanks so much.

GOHEL: Pleasure.

HOLMES: All right. Coming up here on CNN Newsroom, U.S. President Joe Biden wants military options to strike back at ISIS-K. We speak to a retired U.S. Air Force colonel and CNN military analyst about what that might look like. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [03:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAEL HOLMES CNN ANCHOR (on camera): We will hunt you down and make you pay. That vow from the U.S. president after an ISIS affiliate said it is behind the deadly attack Thursday in Afghanistan. Well, right now it's about noon in Kabul and all eyes are on the airport where so much heartbreak and so much emotion is being unfold -- unfolding all week especially after those suicide blasts.

A warning, we are about to air graphic images that might be difficult to watch. But it is important to show them because they expose the inhumanity that is happening right now in Afghanistan. The death toll has risen to more than 90 Afghans and 13 U.S. troops. And the Pentagon warns that there are valid fears, another attack could happen.

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KENNETH MCKENZIE, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Let's talk a little bit about the threats strains. So, very, very real threats strains, very, very -- what we would call tactical that means, imminent, could occur any moment. We assess the threat as a suicide board vehicle threat is high right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now he went on to say that despite the risk of further attacks the U.S. will push ahead with evacuations. But the British armed forces just announced that they have entered the final stages of their evacuation from the airport. Now that means it will continue to evacuate those already at the airport. But will stop calling anyone outside to come there. Now Britain's defense secretary says its operation will end in a matter of hours.

Let's talk more about all of this with CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force Colonel, Cedric Leighton. Good to see you Colonel there in Washington. President Biden promised a swift response to any attack on U.S. forces. He now says, he's going to hunt the perpetrators down. How much pressure is there on him to follow through? And how does he respond if it is ISIS-K? How to reach them in a Taliban controlled environment?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, that's going to be the toughest thing, Michael. You know, one of the things that he has to do, of course, is convince his domestic political constituency that he's on the right path and Americans tend to want a strong military action after some -- something like this happens. And in this case he has got some difficulties because he is getting into an area where we have very little intelligence, we don't know as much about ISIS-K as we would perhaps have known about the Taliban if they had done this.

So he's going to have to deal with the intelligence challenges and then of course with the operational challenges, the terrain that ISIS- K inhabits is very forbidding terrain kind of like what Osama bin Laden inhabited many years during his time between Afghanistan and Pakistan. And that is a real big deal.

HOLMES: Exactly. What does it suggest about security going forward in the context of what is left of this evacuation process? How much difficult will it be and of course, you know, most certainly force protection will be ramp up? It could be tough to get people out.

LEIGHTON: It sure could be, because force protection is actually job one for all deployed commanders in the United States military. And that normally means protection your own force and allied forces. This is a little bit more difficult because you also have a civilian population that you also want to protect.

And that is, I think one of the big issues here. Because force protection obviously there are measures in place but they didn't work as they wanted them to as they were intended to. And that makes for a big difference. I think we have a situation where when a disaster like this occurs, you have to change a lot of practices and you have to change them on the fly. And that becomes a challenge for the deployed commander.

[03:35:09]

HOLMES: Yeah. The Taliban is no friend of ISIS but they will work together if there is a common enemy. We've seen it before. What are the risks of an ISIS foothold in the country and inability to operate in Afghanistan?

LEIGHTON: I think the risks are considerable. And like you point out, Michael, they would have a very good relationship when they want to have a good relationship. They will fight terribly against each other under normal circumstances, but if there is a common enemy and sometimes that common enemy has been the United States. That will be a significant challenge for us.

But it can also be a significant challenge for any other country that tries to get into Afghanistan. And that becomes a huge issue I think going forward. When you look at the way ISIS and the Taliban relate to each other especially ISIS-K for the most part they are enemies, but they can be some situations where they would work together. Right now, that's not the case, but I think in the future there's certainly a possibility of that happen.

HOLMES: You and I have talked about this a lot. I know you and I both share a grave concern for wartime allies who will not get out almost certainly. I mean, with the evacuation efforts, the facts is, this did not have to be so chaotic. The U.S. (inaudible) was leaving, could have started the evacuations literally months ago, how big of a blunder was that? It will cost lives.

LEIGHTON: It will cost lives and that makes it a huge blunder. I think one of the most important things, you know, when you build a coalition especially a military coalition, is to make sure that you can take care of each other and that goes for the junior partner as well as the senior.

And in these cases, where the United States is almost assuredly leaving people behind that really portends a grave issue for us going forward. It's a grave mistake, because other countries, other groups are going to look at what we do in Afghanistan and they are going to look at it, I think with a very jaundiced eye.

They are going to look (inaudible) of this and they are going to say, you know, if the United States abandoned its Afghan allies, what are they going to do with us? And this is something that we have to be very careful of going forward.

HOLMES: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks so much, as always.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Michael. Anytime.

HOLMES: There's more to come on the deadly terror attack in Kabul. How President Biden's political future might be affected by all of this. We'll talk to one of the best political minds around, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:40:00]

HOLMES: Flags had been lowered to half-staff at the White House and U.S. Capitol in honor of those killed in the Kabul terror attack. They will remain at half-staff until Monday, the eve of the U.S. deadline to formally withdraw from Afghanistan.

Now the carnage, the fierce of further violence and nagging questions about what could have been done differently if all made for what Joe Biden's age called the worst day of his presidency. Now, of course Washington being what it is these days, some Republicans are demanding his resignation saying he has blood on his hands. Herse what the White House press secretary have to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's not a day for politics and we would expect that any American whether they are elected or not would stand with us, in our commitment to going after and fighting and killing those terrorist wherever they live, and to honoring their memory of service members and that's what the states is for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Ron Brownstein, joins me now, he's a CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic." Just before we came here we heard Jen Psaki say that it's not a day for politics but sadly, these days it's all about politics. What is the likely political fallout, the political cost if any for Joe Biden as a result of what's happened?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AND SENIOR EDITOR OF THE ATLANTIC (on camera): First of all, good to be with you, Michael. Unfortunately, it is such a tragic day for America and these young service members and their families. I don't think this by itself will be a significant long-term political issue for Biden. I think it will obviously have a short term impact on his political standing, I mean his approval rating was already sinking. And I think this will push it further.

But, you know, in 1983, 20 times as many Americans were killed in the marine barracks bombing in Lebanon and the next year Ronald Reagan won 49 states. I think this becomes a lasting political problem for Biden only if it can become part of a broader narrative that Republicans will try to put together that events are overwhelming him, and that is what to do with COVID, inflation, crime, the border, other issues. If all of those things are still going in the wrong direction for next year, I think it is a political problem, if not I think you can sum out this.

HOLMES: Well, I was going to ask you, because given the view of Americans in terms of their support for the broader withdrawal, do you see any likely impact on the 22 election campaign for him?

[03:45:00]

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I do -- look. I think Biden is at this moment in a kind of split screen presidency. On one screen, he is moving, steadily if, you know, bumpily toward a historic legislative achievement. I mean, this Congress, just in that single reconciliation bill that they are moving forward is poised to pass the most significant Democratic legislative agenda since (inaudible) Johnson in 1965 and 1966. A massive array of programs that virtually every American will feel in their daily life. From Universal (inaudible) to expand our child tax credits.

On the other hand, on the other screen in the here and now, there are a whole series of trends in daily life that all show Americans are uneasy about, the trends in COVID, inflation, as I mentioned, crime for Republicans with what's happening at the border and certainly the way the Afghanistan withdrawal has been handled. And I think if all of those things are still seen to be going in the wrong directions next year. Yes, it will be a significant drag on Democrats. But if he gets control of the broader circumstances, particularly COVID and the economy, I think this particular, you know, reversal and tragedy will not be a lasting blow.

HOLMES: And meanwhile how do you think Republicans are going to handle what happened politically? When we are already seeing their behaving like there is blood in the water.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, look, I mean, I think it is indicative of where we are that you have had Republican senators calling for Biden's resignation because of this. I mean, I don't remember whether there were Democrats who called for George W. Bush's resignation after 9/11, or even during the darkest days of Iraq, much less Democrats to call for Ronald Reagan's resignation after the marine bombing.

So it is just a few reflections of where we are politically and I think also, a reminder I think, if Republicans gain control of the Congress in 2022, it is highly likely that they will find a reason to impeach Joe Biden. I mean, sentence versus verdict afterwards. I think they will find a cause to do it and I think the reaction to this is just a reminder that that is one of the likely outcomes if Republicans gain the House in the 2022 election.

HOLMES: Just pay back.

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah. Look, or just because the demand from the base is so overwhelming. I mean, as we have seen. You know, 75 percent of Republicans believe the big lie, that the election was stolen. They view Biden as fundamentally illegitimate. And we see Kevin McCarthy showing no effort to discipline the most extreme voices of his caucus and I think it will be very hard for them to avoid finding some reason to -- even Lindsey Graham, who, you know, is theoretically, you know, someone not at the far militant end of the party was talking about impeaching Biden over this.

So, I think that's just a reflection of where we are politically. He does have to get this under control. I mean, you know, in some ways they seem to be heading for that, with the enormous amount of people they had move out in the past few days. But this is a reminder of just how much exposure and vulnerability both literally for our service members and politically for the president we have each day that we have their presence at the airport in Kabul.

HOLMES: Ron Brownstein, always a pleasure. Thanks so much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you, Michael.

HOLMES: When we come back here on the program, a U.S. airbase in Germany has become a major transit point for those who managed to safely flee Afghanistan. So far thousands of evacuees have pass- through. We will take you there when we come back.

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[03:50:00]

HOLMES: For those who have made it safely out of Afghanistan, what comes next? Thousands of evacuees already have passed through the U.S. Air Base in Ramstein, Germany. Many heading to America to start a new life. Atika Shubert, joins me now from Ramstein. Good to see you, Atika. What are you hearing about the continued threats, and also, how, and where, these evacuees are going. The stories they must have told both positive and sad, I imagine.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes. I think it is a really mixed emotions for many of the evacuees, they're getting on those departing flights. The other day, we were able to go to hangar five, and that's really this giant military airplane hangar, which normally has this huge planes. But in this case, has been transformed into a kind of international airport terminal. With security check in, and waiting area, weigh their luggage, before they board their flights.

I mean, we were able to speak to few evacuees. Many were happy, they are very excited, they talked about plans to visit families in Virginia, Los Angeles. But, there was mix feelings with many families who had to leave family members behind. One man we spoke to had four sisters, he was only able to bring one. So, his three sisters and mother were still in Kabul.

We heard a lot of stories like that, but having said that, these are the lucky ones that are finally able to get on a departing flight. There is still thousands more that are at Ramstein Air Base, in this huge tent city that had sprouted up literally on the tarmac of the airbase. And so, they are still being processed, waiting to get on these departing flights, and it is going to get more crowded in the next 24 hours. Another 10,000 evacuees are expected to arrive here at the base. Michael?

[03:55:02]

HOLMES: Alright. Atika Shubert there, at Ramstein Air Base, thanks so much. I'm Michael Holmes, our coverage continues in just a moment. This is CNN.

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HOLMES: Hello and welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. I appreciate your company. U.S. military leaders warning that the deadly -