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Ida Expected To Make Landfall In Louisiana As Category 4 Hurricane; Mandatory Evacuation Orders Issued As Hurricane Ida Strengthens; U.S. Embassy Issues Security Alert At Kabul Airport Due To A "Specific, Credible Threat" At Multiples Areas; U.S. Strikes Back For Kabul Attack; Withdrawal Deadlines Day's Away. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired August 28, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: The state's governor is warning that time to prepare is running out and that Ida could be one of the strongest hurricanes to hit the state in more than a century, all flights tomorrow at New Orleans International Airport have been cancelled. More on that in a moment.

We're also following the devastating news out of Afghanistan. The U.S. Embassy in Kabul tonight Just issuing a security alert at the Kabul airport telling all U.S. citizens to leave that area immediately due to a specific, incredible threat and that warning from the embassy comes just hours after President Biden said that another terrorist attack of the Kabul airport is highly likely in the next 24 to 36 hours. More from Afghanistan in just a minute.

Let's go back to Hurricane Ida. Our Meteorologist Tom Sater is in the CNN Weather Centre tracking the past. So, we're supposed to get an update any minute here from the National Weather Service. Do we have it?

TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We do, we do.

HARLOW: OK.

SATER: In fact, just moments ago, the 11 p.m. advisory from the National Hurricane is giving us some interesting information. First and foremost, there is no change in the sustained winds that have been holding it 105, it's quite interesting. Because this has been over very warm waters, what we call the Gulf of Mexico loop. It's a stream of very warm waters, and it hasn't changed its intensity. However, it's moving in toward much warmer waters. So that's fuel and it's really going to create some intensification.

The pressure, however, is dropping slightly, but it's two millibars an hour. It takes a while for the winds to react to the dropping pressure. So, it is strengthening, still a category two, the new track has come out and it jumps right from a category three to a category four by morning.

There is your intensification still looks to have landfall around midday, roughly a 1 p.m. hour Central Daylight Time, local time. And after it makes landfall as a category four right at that 130 sustain wind. That's right, just barely a cat four you. You're not going to know the difference if it's cat three, strong cat three or barely a cat four. But it does lose a little strength when it makes its landfall, and it interacts with land.

But again, still a category two and you keep it as a tropical storm in the northern part of the state here. So again, it's that forward momentum and that surge of energy that continues to pound this region for hours. Notice how the icons really spread out when you get into the Tennessee in Ohio Valley. That means it's picking up speed.

That also means this moving at a turtle's pace throughout the day tomorrow and toward tomorrow night. We are now able to pick this up on radar and you can see the well-defined eye, we're seeing thunderstorm development surrounding the eyewall which means yes intensification is going on.

You also look for lightning strikes, not only around the center which we're seeing, but now these bands, Poppy, are starting to really produce some feeder bands that'll be moving in toward the parishes Louisiana in a matter of hours. You don't have to be near the center to feel the effects of this.

Early this morning, we had a wind gust of 67 miles per hour and Key West quite some distance away. So, I suspect this this gets closer. We will have some tornado watches typically with tornadoes or small spinners, but they can create some damage.

Now as we're going to see landfall again at midday conditions are going to go downhill, Tropical Storm winds will move in around four or five in the morning and continue their track to the north. This is of course what we still have is our storm surge warning. Earlier today, they extended it all the way to the Florida border.

So again, mobile, don't let your guard down with this. Still concerned about a couple of things, not just the winds in that corridor really creating a bad approach here on an angle moving to the northwest and 16 but from New Orleans northward to Baton Rouge and not only the winds, Poppy, but of course that storm surge. They're not going to be Katrina levels. We're not going to see 2024 feet but again enough inundation well inland and miles.

Not to mention the pumping system can only handle so much in New Orleans, one inch an hour, a half an inch after that they could see 10 to 15 inches in some cases. It's going to be a long day.

HARLOW: For sure. Tom Sater, thank you for that important update.

Now let's get straight to my colleague Jason Carroll. He's in Houma, Louisiana that is close to or exactly where Ida may make landfall tomorrow as a cap four storm. What's the latest Jason?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you look behind me, Poppy, you can see that there are some boarded up buildings here, sandbags in front of buildings as well. I mean, basically Houma is a ghost town at this hour. A number of folks here have heeded the warnings and have left town and, that's exactly what emergency officials want to see and want to hear. Basically, when you think of Houma, think of this. I mean, again, as I've said it could be ground zero for this hurricane. It's also under a mandatory evacuation. I spoke to the sheriff out here who says that he predicts anywhere between 60 to 80% of the residents here in Houma and in the surrounding parish have basically left town.

[23:05:01]

We've also heard from the state's governor who says look if you're planning to leave time has all but run out but, and even after hearing all of that there are still, Poppy, a number of folks, mostly longtime residents who say, look, they feel as though, their best course of action is to stay where they are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: So, you're not going to -- you're not going to evacuate, do you have any concerns about staying?

JESSICA DUPRE, HOUMA, LOUISIANA RESIDENT: Tornadoes and the wind damage. I'm more worried about what we're going to come home to wanting to go down that way. Because we probably -- if they have any bad damage here, we have nothing.

CARROLL: Is there anything that anyone can say to convince you to evacuate?

DUPRE: Are you driving me now? Because I get no interstate. I'm scared.

DUPRE You're more scared of --

DUPRE: I'm scared interstate than staying in a house right here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: And she's not alone, Poppy, two of the folks who live here in the street, the man who lives in a house just next to this building. And across the street there, Jason and his wife, they all say they plan to stay here right here on this street. And wait out the storm, Poppy.

HARLOW: Jason, I mean, on top of hearing all of that, the Louisiana flood protection authority says they've closed nearly all the floodgates ahead of the storm, part of the protection system built after Katrina, right? And so that infrastructure, hopefully will protect people a whole lot more.

CARROLL: And a little bit more about that, Poppy, about 30 minutes or so from where we are right now in a place called Shogun. There is a massive floodgate there built after Katrina, it stands about 15 feet high. They are really banking on that doing its job to keep the water at bay. Just to give you a little comparison, the surrounding levees in and around the parish stand at about 12 feet.

But when you look at some of the dire predictions of what some of the meteorologists are saying, the storm surge could be anywhere between 10 and 15 feet. So, you do the math there, you can see why there's so much concern. But again, emergency officials say that even for those 12-foot levees, there are backup levees that are now in place that weren't in place before that they are hoping will do the job.

HARLOW: We hope so. Jason Carroll, thank you very much to you and your team on the ground for all of this reporting.

CARROLL: You bet.

HARLOW: We'll get back to you soon. Earlier tonight, President Biden approved an emergency declaration for the state of Mississippi. Officials across the state bracing for the impact of Hurricane Ida once the powerful storm moves inland tomorrow.

Joining me now is the mayor of Jackson, Mississippi, Chokwe Antar Lumumba. Thank you very much for being here, especially on a night like this with everything consuming your time and your energy. If you could just update us on your outlook now after issuing that state of emergency earlier today.

MAYOR CHOKWE ANTAR LUMUMBA, JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI: Well, thank you, Poppy. I know that our residents depend on all news outlets in order to provide them information. As it stands today, we're sending not only our public works crews, our police department and fire department, making sure that they're in place to provide assistance in preparation for the storm.

We're advising residents that are in flood prone areas to seek higher ground and shelter. We're providing sandbags to residents in preparation. We are closely adhering to the advice provided to us by our emergency management operations with the county and waiting for direction from the states, from MEMA, from the state. As it stands today, I believe that our greatest threat is high winds and the effects of those high winds and the associated storms that come with the hurricane.

HARLOW: Our latest modelling, CNN Storm Track room, Mayor is showing Jackson said to get hit the hardest around 2 o'clock on Monday, is that what you're expecting at this point?

LUMUMBA: That seems to be consistent with the information that has been provided to me most recently. And so, we're trying to do everything that we can to gear up. Of course, some of the threats that we're always concerned with is how it will impact our infrastructure that residents rely on, how it will impact our water distribution, how it will impact electricity and so we're trying to do our best to prepare residents, communicate early and often and make certain that we bunker down.

HARLOW: What about your hospitals? They are already being hit so hard constantly from the COVID crisis, the Delta Variant surge and now this and now the potential for prolonged power outages. Are they -- I mean, how concerned are you about the hospital system there?

[23:09:59] LUMUMBA: Extremely, I'm extremely concerned. I think that you hit on a very important point. They're already stretched beyond capacity. This storm could not come at a worse time, not only for Jackson residents, but you know, people across this nation. And so, we will be looking for direction from the state, we'll be looking from the direction from our medical personnel to see how we can best support the residents. And so, it's just another challenge for our residents to endure.

HARLOW: Of course, it is the fact that this is hitting, you know, to the day, 16 years after Hurricane Katrina is just, you know, I mean, it's very sad irony. The situation, though, as we just heard Jason reporting and our experts in the previous hours is there's a whole lot more investment, a whole lot of new infrastructure that wasn't there in the wake of Katrina.

I wonder how much more confident that makes you given, I mean, when you look at in and around New Orleans, very different there, but what is different for you guys?

LUMUMBA: We try our best to be as prepared as possible, and hopefully we can be over prepared and the effects, you know, prayerfully won't be as bad as we anticipate. But, you know, we'll be making certain that we give our very best to the last moment, you know, you never know how the infrastructure will hold up. And so, I don't just simply rely on all of that. We try to put the appropriate personnel in place and rely on all of the information and support that we can get from the state of Mississippi.

HARLOW: Right. Is there a concern that you have that, I know there's not a mandatory evacuation order, but you know, that people there will come a point where people who have not taken the necessary precautions will not be able to get the emergency aid because it gets so bad?

LUMUMBA: Well, because we live in areas just being a coastal state, not so much as Jackson is more inland than some other cities, sometimes take the advisement or the precautions as soundly as we should. And so, it is important that we reiterate the message of just how severe this storm is that we reiterate the message of turn around, don't drown.

If you see standing water, don't walk in it, don't swim in it. Don't ride in it. And those are things that we have to continue to speak to our residents about. We're concerned about downed power lines. We're concerned about all of the associated effects of a storm of this magnitude.

And so, it is important that we speak early and often to our residents as much as possible. Once we get notification if that becomes necessary, of the need for evacuation, then we want to speak to that, to date at this point, that has not been the advice that we have received.

HARLOW: OK. Mayor Lumumba, thank you very much for your time and good luck to you over the next, you know, 48, 72 hours.

LUMUMBA: Thank you, Poppy. HARLOW: Of course. Well, breaking tonight out of Afghanistan and new security alert from the U.S. Embassy in Kabul, warning all U.S. citizens to leave the Kabul airport immediately due to a "specific incredible threat." We're live from the Pentagon with more, and just days before the breakaway terror group ISIS-K claimed responsibility for an attack on American service members and hundreds of Afghan civilians. Our Clarissa Ward sat down for an exclusive interview with a commander of ISIS-K, you'll see that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:17:21]

HARLOW: Breaking tonight, a new security alert from the U.S. Embassy in Kabul warning all U.S. citizens in the vicinity of the Kabul airport to leave immediately due to what the embassy is calling a specific incredible threat. The State Department says there are just about 350 Americans who want to be evacuated from Afghanistan, still in the country. Biden administration official says approximately 2000 people were evacuated from Kabul just over 12 hours earlier today.

Our Pentagon Correspondent Oren Liebermann joins me now. Oren, good evening. Thank you for staying up late, obviously, in these extraordinary times for us there. What more can you tell us about? I mean, is there a commitment to all 350 of these Americans who want to get out of Afghanistan that they're going to be on planes in the next 72 hours?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we heard that from President Joe Biden multiple times that he would get every U.S. citizen who wants to leave out. It is worth noting that the administration has said there are several American citizens, several 100 who have decided to stay at this time.

And until that last second, if they change their mind, the administration will do what it can to get them out. But obviously, the situation has become far more dangerous with not only the terror attack that we saw that left 13 U.S. servicemembers dead.

But now a new specific and credible threat, specific enough that the warning from the U.S. Embassy in Kabul mentions three specific gates, the South Gate, the Ministry of the Interior Gate and the gate near the Panjshir Petrol station. So that's the kind of intelligence, that kind of information that's leading to this new warning.

We've seen over the course of the past two weeks that the U.S. is used helicopter missions to bring Americans into the airport. Those were of short distance and of short duration, but perhaps it will be something like that, or some sort of covert operation to bring in Americans, instead of simply bringing them through the gates.

There is some time left in this evacuation, but a very little bit. There is essentially Sunday. It's early Sunday morning already in Afghanistan, Monday and at least part of Tuesday. But as is obvious from the declining numbers we're seeing in the people getting on these flights. This is no longer fully an evacuation. It is the withdrawal of forces as well.

HARLOW: Yeah. All at the same time, incredibly complicated and dangerous. Oren, thank you for the reporting at the Pentagon.

I'm happy to bring in now New York Times White House and National Security Correspondent David Sanger, wishing it was under better circumstances. But David, you know this stuff inside now. Thank you for staying up late with us tonight. How do we do this, David? How does the U.S. get those Americans out, get our Afghan allies out? Keep these troops safe in the face of these new specific credible threats?

DAVID SANGER, WHITE HOUSE AND NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Poppy, it's going to be really hard and I think these next 72 hours before the deadline of August 31 are going to be particularly fraught.

[23:20:06]

You have sort of three separate problems. First is this very specific threat that the White House and the Defense Department talked about tonight, that is very reminiscent of just a few days ago, the night before the suicide bomb that killed those 13 American Marines. And so, it feels like we've got a moment of deja vu here. As a result, they're not going to let Marines, I'm sure be out at the outside of these gates, trying to sort through people.

The second problem are the 350 Americans who say they want to get out, from the people that we've been talking to it sounds like some of them were already inside the base are on the way. I think the question is, what about the Americans we don't know about or those who might change their mind, and how you get them out once the U.S. no longer has a presence. That's an issue.

And then the third issue, of course, are the Afghans of which there are tens, maybe hundreds and thousands, the President has promised to get them out to those who helped the United States. But when the British left today, Poppy, their commander said it's a tragedy, but we weren't able to get all of them. And I'd be surprised if the American experience is any different.

HARLOW: What do we learn from this, David? And all you've reported on and all of your years, as you look at this, and I know we're still in the middle of it, but what is the lesson here?

SANGER: There are so many, Poppy, and they come in different parts of the war. During the Bush administration, we basically learned that the initial mission to get al Qaeda, then bled into a number of other missions, democratization, sending girls to school, reforming the economy. That was a mistake, naming this whole war on terror as if that was something that would ever be have a defined beginning and end. I think that was a mistake.

During the Obama administration, doing the surge, and then counting on the Afghans to fill in for the retrieving Americans and discovering like, couldn't, should have been a warning to us. During the Trump administration, making a deal with the Taliban, that basically called for us to leave whether the Taliban complied or not. That was a mistake. And during the Biden administration, not moving faster to get people out after the President's announcement in April, thinking we have the luxury of time.

HARLOW: Can we talk about that last point, David, because that's, you know, that -- I mean, you've spoken to the President, you've interviewed him in the past and he was and the administration was warned by so many, especially in their own party, so many members of Congress saying we need to plan, we need to make this commitment to get our allies out, those interpreters, their families, for so long. And I guess I wonder specifically, what the lesson is, in that, given that many it appears, may not make it out?

SANGER: Well, that's absolutely right. We needed to be pulling those people out with the same kind of urgency starting in May, that we've shown in the last two weeks. The administration has done a remarkable job in two weeks, we've got 109,000 people out of the country, and another few 1000 today, we heard. That's way above what the Pentagon thought they could do. But in the months before, we only got 2000 of those Afghans out. And that's really something we've got to go look at.

Some of the fall belongs to Congress, which did change the law just a few weeks ago, to make it a little bit faster and a little bit easier to process them. But we've learned from this, we could have gotten them out much faster. We could have done this airlift months ago.

The problem is none of us really believed the Afghan government would collapse. The government didn't believe it, the intelligence community didn't believe it. The military didn't believe it. And, Poppy, frankly, none of us really did, too. I mean, I didn't think it would collapse that fast. And I don't know many of our journalistic colleagues who did.

HARLOW: You're right, it was weeks ago on the air and in the papers could Kabul really fall. Could that really happen?

SANGER: That's right.

HARLOW: Right, weeks ago.

SANGER: In fact, I asked the President about this in early July, July 2, and he described the plan for American backup of the of the Afghan forces in Kabul and, you know, none of that happened.

HARLOW: Yeah. Well, David Sanger, thank you. Your reporting throughout has been extraordinary. I'm glad you're with us tonight. Thanks very much.

SANGER: Thank you, Poppy, great to be with you.

[23:25:00]

HARLOW: Of course. Minutes ago, we did get an update on the other breaking news story we're covering tonight that of course is Hurricane Ida and the path of the storm, we'll give you that update, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Right now, the National Hurricane Centre is warning of the potential for life threatening storm surge along the coasts of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama. Hurricane Ida expected to intensify over the next few hours as it barrels toward the Gulf Coast.

A live look now at New Orleans. This is Bourbon Street in the French Quarter. You know what that normally looks like, so you can tell how prepared people are for this storm, people trying to get inside, and this is a Saturday night, I should note.

Tyler Mauldin joins me now from the CNN Weather Centre. So, Tyler we just got this update at 11:00. Still a cat two right, but expected to be a cat four by the morning?

TYLER MAULDIN, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hey, Poppy. Yeah, this system Hurricane Ida is poised so rapidly intensify in the coming hours and it will go from a category two with 105 mile per hour winds which it has right now to a healthy category four as it narrows in on the coastline of Louisiana. It will become 130 mile per hour category four hurricane. So, barely a category four but those gusts will be way stronger than 130 miles per hour.

At the moment, landfall looks to be somewhere around Grand Isle to Houma, Louisiana.

[23:30:00]

The impacts are going to be felt far and wide, though, way out from the center and way out from the cone.

We're already seeing bands of showers and thunderstorms move through the north of the Gulf into portions of Alabama, Mississippi, and also Louisiana too, that's despite Hurricane Ida being about 230 miles to the south and east of Houma, Louisiana.

You see these bands right here. All of that is just a foreshadow of things that come. We're going to see the conditions go downhill very quickly in the coming hours. All this rain is going to spread to the north, it's going to spread across southeastern Louisiana, it's also going to spread across Mississippi and Alabama.

This area right here is not in the cone and you're going to be impacted really, really hard. Where we see the center come ashore, that's where we could see up to 10, maybe 15 inches of rain, some areas isolated up to 20 inches of rain and then we see a wide swath of six to 10 inches all the way up through Mississippi and on into the Tennessee Valley.

On the right side of the system, we're going to see tornadoes, those tornadoes are going to come ashore here in New Orleans going into Biloxi and possibly even Mobile too. Of course, you're going to see the category four hurricane force winds come ashore as well. But one of the worst hazards, I believe, with Ida is going to be the flooding and the storm surge. We have a storm surge warning up for the areas in pink that goes from Morgan City all the way to Mobile. Get this around the mouth of the Mississippi River, Grand Isle, you could see a maximum storm surge of 15 feet. This is going to cause structures to become uninhabitable near the coastline.

And when you factor in, the flooding, the storm surge, and the wind, Poppy, we're looking at widespread power outages near the coastline. That's why we have power crews come in from 22 different states and D.C. to help restore power.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Wow, our thanks to them for helping but it looks like a long road ahead for those communities. Tyler, thank you for the reporting tonight.

Joining me now on the phone is Dr. Jennifer Avegno. She's the director of the New Orleans Health Department.

Doctor, good evening. Can you hear me?

JENNIFER AVEGNO, DIRECTOR, NEW ORLEANS HEALTH DEPARTMENT: Yes. Good evening, Poppy.

HARLOW: Thank you very much for staying up late, especially with all you have on your hands right now. The key issue here on top of this storm, hurricane that is headed straight for you guys is the situation your hospitals are already in full of COVID patients. So, what does this mean for them?

AVEGNO: Right. Well, you know, we're no stranger to having two disasters at once, last year, also during COVID, we lived through, I think eight storm activations. And though our hospitals weren't quite as full. You know, we were trying to prepare as best we can.

Our hospitals are doing their absolute best to make sure they have staffing in place to care for everyone who's there, to discharge anyone who can be safely discharged. And we're really telling residents, you know, if now is not the time to go to the hospital unless you have a true-life threatening emergency.

HARLOW: I hope people listen to that, because you need every single resource you can on the folks that need it most. Today, the governor said hospitals in the state are maxed out. Are you getting any extra support for the hospitals from other states? I mean, is there any, you know, call you would like to make to people that could be of help in the wake of the storm?

AVEGNO: Well, I know that our state and our governor have asked for federal resources. And, you know, as always, we're sure that we will get some. But, you know, quite frankly, there are very few resources anywhere in our region. And as the Delta surge grows across the country, more and more medical facilities are just as strained as we are. So, you know, we understand the limitations. We are going to do the best we can with the resources. We know that we've asked for help and whatever help is available has been provided. You know, earlier this week, the federal government did provide some help to one of our children's hospitals in the region due to the increase in pediatric cases they were seeing and we're very appreciative for that. So, we know that help will be coming but we're quite realistic about what to expect.

HARLOW: One thing that is obvious, but I don't think a lot of us think about it now for talk about enough is it even when, you know, towns and communities are told to evacuate, that doesn't really mean you guys, right?

AVEGNO: Right.

HARLOW: The hospital stay, you've stayed, the doctors, the nurses, the support staff, you guys stay, and I wonder what that is like, in a moment like this?

AVEGNO: Well, that's part of the calling of being a health care worker in an area that that has its share of disasters and that's anywhere in a coastal area really, or a place that's really beset by wildfires. You know, we're here because we want to serve our community.

We want to care for patients and that absolutely means being here for them in the worst of times, but often at great sacrifice to our own personal lives and our families. And to everybody goes into that knowing it, I'm really proud to have so many colleagues who want to do this work.

And really even today as I was in the hospital, and certainly with our team at the health department at the city, everybody was united, and the mission was energized. You know, we know what's coming. We know what the worst could be. But we're working really well together to make it as safe as possible for our residents. And that really carries us through, I think.

[23:35:40]

HARLOW: We're also grateful for the work you do and especially in times like this, Jennifer. Dr. Jennifer Avegno, thank you to you and your team.

AVEGNO: Thank you so much.

HARLOW: Well, up next, back to Afghanistan and an extraordinary interview you need to hear, and you'll only hear on CNN, our own Clarissa Ward sits down for an interview with an ISIS-K commander, the terror group that carried out that attack on U.S. service members on Thursday. The interview came just days before that attack. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Now, to our CNN Exclusive, our Clarissa Ward spoke with an ISIS-K commander, that terror group just before days before the attack in Kabul, that commander explained why he turned against the Taliban and what his group is hoping to do once other nations pull their forces out of Afghanistan. Watch this.

[23:40:13]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two weeks before the attack, just days before Kabul fell to the Taliban, we were in touch with a senior ISIS-K commander who said the group was lying low and waiting for its moment to strike. Words that turned out to be eerily prophetic.

(On camera): So, this commander said he will do an interview with us here at a hotel in Kabul. He said it is no problem for him to get through check points and come right into the capital.

(Voice-over): To prove his point, he let us film his arrival into the city. Abdul Munir, as he asked to be called, is an ISIS-K commander from Kunar, the heart of the terrorist groups operations. He agreed to talk on the condition that we disguise his identity.

In a Kabul hotel, he told us he's had up to 600 men under his command. Among them Indians, Pakistan and central Asians. Like many of his foot soldiers, we used to fight with the Taliban but says they have fallen under the influence of foreign powers.

ABDUL MUNIR, ISIS-K COMMANDER (through translation): We were operating in Taliban's ranks, however, these people were not aligned with us in terms of belief. So, we went to ISIS.

WARD (on camera): Do you think they're not strict enough with their implementation of Sharia?

MUNIR: You see, they can't present one example where they have enforced fixed Islamic law punishments, where they have caught off a thieves' hand, have stoned to death and adulterer, have stoned to death a murderer. They cannot enforce fixed Islamic law punishments, because they are under other people's control, and they implement their plans.

So, we do not want to implement someone else's plans and we only want to enforce Sharia. If anyone gets along with us on this. He is our brother. Otherwise, we declare war with him, whether he's Talib or anyone else.

WARD: So, have you carried out public executions, suicide bombings, things of this nature?

MUNIR: Yes, I have too many memories where I was present myself at the scenes. One memory is that the Pakistani-Taliban had come to the nausea district. And during the fighting, we captured five people. Our fighters became overexcited, and we struck them with access.

WARD (voice-over): It's that chilling brutality that made ISIS-K a primary target for U.S. forces. In recent years, airstrikes and Special Forces operations have ruthlessly targeted the group in Kunar and Nangarhar. (On camera): Has your group engaged in any fighting with U.S. special forces?

MUNIR: Yes, we have faced them on many occasions. We had close combat with them too, they used to land in ancient. In Kunar, they carried out airstrikes. We have faced them a lot in firefights.

WARD (on camera): Are you interested ultimately in carrying out international attacks?

MUNIR: This point is higher than my level. I can only give you information about Afghanistan.

WARD: With U.S. forces out of the country and the Taliban potentially in control. Do you think that will make it easier for you to expand?

MUNIR: Yes, this exists in our plan. Instead of currently operating we have turned to recruiting only, to utilize the opportunity and to do our recruitment. But when the foreigners and people the world leave Afghanistan, we can restart our operations.

WARD (voice-over): That moment has now come as the world saw all too clearly on Thursday, a brutal attack on an already battered country and the threat that is not going away as U.S. forces complete their withdrawal.

(On camera): Abdul Munir would not comment on whether the group was interested in pursuing transnational attacks. But he did say that he hopes with the withdrawal of U.S. forces that potentially they might be able to try to establish a caliphate like the one Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi established in Syria and Iraq.

Now most terrorism analysts say that ISIS-K is at least five years away from potentially being able to launch international attacks. But this bloody attack on the airport certainly raises very real questions about the Taliban's ability to control groups like ISIS-K, and whether Afghanistan could once again become a safe haven for terrorists. Clarissa Ward, CNN, Doha.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Joining me now is Mike Baker, former CIA Covert Operations Officer. Mike, thank you very much for being here. I want to get your take on what we just saw from Clarissa. First of all, an extraordinary interview, remarkable access, and remember, that was just days before the attack that killed 13 U.S. service members, 170 plus others that ISIS-K claimed responsibility for. I think a lot of people right now are watching and saying what is ISIS-K? So, what is it?

[23:45:03]

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVERT OPERATIONS OFFICER: Right. It's essentially, I mean, most people understand what the Islamic State was because we went through a great deal of exposure to ISIS during the 2014, '15, '16 period of time. But ISIS-K is essentially, it's an offshoot, it's a disaffected group, that is comprised of individuals coming out of Pakistan.

And individuals coming from the Taliban themselves, who felt that the Taliban, as bizarre as this sounds, isn't extremist enough. And so, they -- you know, if you're looking in terms of the relationships that exist out there, think of the Taliban, think of the Haqqani Network, think about al Qaeda as all basically joined at the hip. And then on the other side of the spectrum is ISIS-K, which considers the Taliban a sworn enemy as they considered the U.S. as well.

HARLOW: I was most struck, I think, in the interview, Mike, by one of Clarissa's last questions, which is, will it be easier for you to operate in Afghanistan now that the U.S. is gone and everyone else is pulling out, right, and he said, unequivocally, yes. And, by the way, we're so focused on recruitment, you know, the U.S. went in to Afghanistan to take down al Qaeda, right, and in the war on terror, and now, you, you've got what seems to be burgeoning, newer, terror threat in the country.

BAKER: Right. It's frustrating to a lot of people who don't spend a lot of time watching the area, it's absolutely no surprise to those who have spent any time or dealing with counterterrorism out there. But in a sense, anytime there's chaos, there's an opportunity, whether it's al Qaeda, whether it's ISIS, whether it's ISIS-K, Haqqani Network, to expand their reach, to expand their operations, chaos provides that opportunity.

Now, in a sense, and this is going to sound very odd, but if you think about the United States and say, what's in our best national security interests? Well, our national security interest right now for Afghanistan, is not to allow the country to be used as a training and testing facility for extremist groups to carry out attacks against the U.S. and our allies.

If that's the case, then with Taliban now in charge, we have to look at this in a different way than we have over the past 20 years, we have to be very pragmatic in understanding what's in our best national security interests. So right now, we should be looking at this and saying, well, we better hope that the Taliban can gain control of Afghanistan.

And actually, from a security point of view, minimize the opportunity for groups like ISIS-K and frankly, al Qaeda, which, again, unfortunately, is hand in hand with the Taliban, to expand their reach and so once again start targeting, whether it's the U.S. or our allies. And so, it's counterintuitive. But we have to pivot at a certain point. And say, again, based on our national security interests, what do we hope for that region? And we have to look at the Taliban now, in very realistic terms as the best way to control what's going on inside of Afghanistan.

HARLOW: And so, Mike, I mean, I hear your point completely, and it's striking for people to hear.

BAKER: Yeah.

HARLOW: But to what extent can the U.S. operate with the Taliban, in a protracted fight against ISIS-K? I mean, how do you even work with an entity you can't trust?

BAKER: Right. And that is a problem. And look, it's not as if we haven't done that in the past with other nations.

HARLOW: Sure.

BAKER: We have to be very realistic here. You don't trust them, right, the bottom line is we don't you have to be realistic about who you're dealing with. But you also have to be realistic about where we are. We're withdrawing. Look, the previous administration put the idea of withdrawal on the table and open this up. And then then President Biden said I'm perfectly on board, I agree, we should be getting out, that now sets the table for going forward.

And so, we have very limited options, right? One of the things that we have to be able to do as the Pentagon is talked about is have this over the horizon ability, which is very difficult now because we don't have the access on the ground for Intel collection. But we have to be able to reach in whenever there's a problem and take action, as we did over the past couple of days against the ISIS-K target.

That's a heavy lift because we don't have that Intel access that we used to have. But we have to be able to do that. But we also have to understand in a very difficult to assimilate, but very pragmatic way that the environment has changed, the operating area has changed, Taliban's and control and again, assuming we have to think for, what's in the best interest of the United States? We have to make some pivots here. And that's a very difficult thing to do because we've been engaged in war now for 20 years against the Taliban.

[23:50:13]

HARLOW: Mike Baker, thank you for your analysis, your expertise tonight. I appreciate it.

BAKER: Thank you.

HARLOW: All right, we're also on top of the other breaking news story this evening. And that is Hurricane Ida likely to hit Louisiana as a category four storm. Tomorrow, the 16th anniversary of when Hurricane Katrina hit the state, an update next.

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HARLOW: Right now, Hurricane Ida is heading toward the Gulf Coast, expected to become a category four storm and just hours before it slams into Louisiana, sometime tomorrow. Last hour I spoke with the President of Jefferson Parish Louisiana with this urgent warning ahead of the storm, listen.

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HARLOW: You have towns in Jefferson Parish that are outside of the levee protection system or under mandatory evacuation orders and you've called on everyone who can leave warning that you're expecting a storm surge that is on survivable. That's a quote. What is your message to any of those who are listening tonight?

[23:55:06]

CYNTHIA LEE SHENG, PRESIDENT OF JEFFERSON PARISH, LOUISIANA: Well, you know, that's where my concern is. In Jefferson Parish, we're a very unique parish, and that we have dense living in urban areas. But a couple hours away from us is also part of our parish is our most vulnerable communities in Grand Isle. That road has been closed.

The people that are there are stuck there until after the storm, and that is certainly our concern. We were begging them to get out. But I know we have a couple dozen people down there. So that is truly our concern right now. Because that storm surge is going to be so strong for such a long period of time, that it will be unsurvivable. That's what we believe.

HARLOW: I mean, you are warning them, I hope they are heating these warnings before it gets too late. You have experts saying that customers in the direct path of the storm as intense and as powerful as what Hurricane Ida is looking to be, should expect to face power outages for three weeks and that customers in the hardest hit areas should plan for the possibility of extended power outages even past that. I mean, does there come a point especially in the immediate aftermath of the storm, that you're unable to go in and help those people?

SHENG: Well, that is certainly a concern. Look, our community is very vulnerable right now. We are very vulnerable with COVID. We are dealing with our fourth surge. So, we were coming in at kind of full hospital capacity already. And that's why it's just so heartbreaking on this anniversary of Katrina that we are dealing with this now.

But we are prepared. We pre-positioned a lot of assets ahead of time. The state has assets here. We have the Louisiana National Guard here to help with our firefighters, our police. We are ready to do search and rescue after this. But, of course, it is hot in August down here in Louisiana. And being without air condition for our vulnerable people is going to be very, very difficult. So, I think even after the storm, you're going to see people wanting to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We're wishing all of them safety overnight as this storm makes landfall. Thank you all for joining us for our special coverage tonight. I'm Poppy Harlow, I'll see you soon. My colleague, Michael Holmes picks up our coverage after the break.

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