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DHS Warns of Violence Before Tomorrow's Rally; Gonzalez Announces He's Not Running in 2022; Charles Ramsey is Interviewed about Capitol Security; Milley Comments on Call to China; Georgia Probe into Election Continues; Dr. Ali Khan is Interviewed about Booster Shots. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 17, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Admiring some vista, at a cafe in an exotic corner of the world and you meet an impossibly handsome and overwhelmingly kind man, please say hi to Bruce for us and tell him we miss him so much.

You're the best, Bruce.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: You are the best.

BERMAN: CNN's coverage continues right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good Friday morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

This morning, the U.S. Capitol is on alert. A new warning of potential violence as early as today. This ahead of tomorrow's right-wing rally in support of those charged criminally with storming the Capitol on January 6th, attacking police officers as well. Now, a Department of Homeland Security brief warns that people involved in the rally and those opposed to it could pose a threat tomorrow.

HILL: And now adding fuel to the fire, perhaps not surprisingly, former President Trump, who is expressing support for the insurrectionists, echoing organizers in saying the hundreds arrested in connection with the riot are being persecuted unfairly.

This comes, too, as a House Republican who voted to impeach the president, former president, over his role in the attack on the Capitol says he's done with politics. Ohio Representative Anthony Gonzalez revealing he will not run for re-election, largely due to the toxic state of the GOP.

CNN's Whitney Wild is just outside the Capitol fence perimeter this morning.

So, Whitney, law enforcement, as we know, saying they're prepared for whatever today or tomorrow brings. What is the anticipation of what that may be?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now what they're expecting is, you know, possibly hundreds of people coming into Washington, at least on Saturday, in support of this rally for people who were charged in the insurrection. This Justice for January 6th rally. They are also preparing for the possibility of counter protesters.

In addition to all the people they expect to flood into Washington over the weekend, they are also thinking that it's possible that people may seek to cause harm the day before. DHS warning local law enforcement that there is an uptick in online chatter surrounding violence in furtherance of this big election lie.

One of the key points of the intelligence assessment that was sent out to local law enforcement suggests that violence could possibly be influenced by these key influencers, that these far-right people are listening to very, very closely. So if one of these key influencers even suggests that violence should occur, it's possible, DHS says, that these people coming to Washington might seek to follow that. So that's the warning here.

They are taking no chances. This fence has been up since Wednesday. Law enforcement is also working very closely together in the national capital region here. So that's what -- Metropolitan Police Department, the Capitol Police Department, which is responsible for the Capitol grounds, not just The Gill itself, but also the Supreme Court and other Capitol complex buildings, and the surrounding suburbs.

So, what they're expecting is people to come to Washington. They are expecting the possibility of violence. And they are planning to have a significant police presence here. Erica and Jim, they are not going to let another January 6th incident take them by surprise.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it appears they're just not taking any chances, right, I mean with all these measures.

WILD: Right.

SCIUTTO: Whitney Wild, thanks very much.

Well, one of the 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach former President Trump for his role in the January 6th insurrection has just announced he will not run for re-election next year. Ohio Congressman Anthony Gonzalez cited the, quote, toxic dynamics inside the Republican Party as a factor in his decision.

HILL: In an interview with "The New York Times," the former NFL star also called Trump a cancer for the country.

CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill this morning.

So, Lauren, that, obviously, sends quite a message for Republicans in terms of where the party stands. LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Erica

and Jim. I mean, look, this is a very revealing and honest interview about why he is not running for re-election. He said that at the heart of his decision is really the fact that going back and forth between his district in Washington, D.C., is really tough on his family.

But he said it's also worth noting that the sacrifice you have to make in not getting to spend time with your family isn't worth it when you're coming back to a Washington that's so grossly divided and also a Republican Party that he said he just doesn't really recognize at this point. He said, while my desire to build a fuller family life is at the heart of my decision, it is also true that the current state of our politics, especially many of the toxic dynamics inside our own party, is a significant factor in my decision.

And he tells this story about returning back to the airport in Ohio with his family and being raided by two police officers who have to escort him through the airport because of security concerns after the way that he voted to impeach former President Donald Trump after that January 6th insurrection.

[09:05:04]

And, look, it's really not just Congressman Gonzalez who has faced these kinds of concerns. He also has deep concerns about the fact that, you know, there is a Republican Party that is still following Trump, and there are multiple Republican members who voted to impeach the former president who are also facing primary challenges back home.

Look at Liz Cheney and what happened to her. She was removed from the Republican Party's leadership post in the House of Representatives. You also have other Republicans who are facing Trump-endorsed primary challengers, like Adam Kinzinger, like Jamie Herrera-Beutler in the state of Washington, as well as Fred Upton in Michigan. So there are a large collection of Republicans who are facing the ire of Trump after voting their conscience on that impeachment vote after January 6th.

Jim and Erica.

SCIUTTO: Lauren Fox, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss, particularly events this weekend, is Charles Ramsey, he's the former head of the Metropolitan Police Department here in Washington, as well as former Philadelphia Police commissioner.

Commissioner Ramsey, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER AND FORMER DC POLICE CHIEF: It's all right (ph).

SCIUTTO: So you've seen a lot of the measures adopted in advance of tomorrow's protest. You've got a new fence put up, information sharing alert, that was a big issue in responding to January 6th. Also ramped up airport security, looking at people who may be flying in to take part.

Are these changes sufficient, in your view, to prevent a repeat of what we saw on January 6th?

RAMSEY: I think so. I think they've done just about all they can do at this point in time. I think the fencing was a smart move. Certainly they have additional resources, surrounding jurisdictions, as well as National Guard on standby.

But remember one thing, now that the fencing's up, a lot of what's going to take place will occur in an area patrolled by the Metropolitan Police Department, not the Capitol Police, because it's been pushed out so far.

MPD will be ready. I don't think there's a department in the country that really handles these things better than MPD. Their on full activation. All their civil disturbance units and so forth.

I would assume that there's some beefed up security around the White House as well. That would be under U.S. Secret Service, uniform division, as well as U.S. Park Police.

So I think when you look at Washington itself, you're going to have an overwhelming presence.

SCIUTTO: One of the key lessons of January 6th is identified in a post-January 6th security review, what was communication and mobilization of the National Guard just didn't happen quickly enough, fast enough. They were there hours later and long after Capitol Police needed their help.

We're told that the D.C. National Guard is on standby to provide assistance. From your vantage point, has that issue with the National Guard been resolved?

RAMSEY: I think so. I mean they know they need them on standby, on reserve just in case. I doubt if you'll actually see them because they're going to have sufficient resources. But if needed, they'll be able to respond very, very quickly. And that was missing on January 6th.

There's no question they underestimated January 6th and were not prepared. This time around, it's different.

SCIUTTO: OK.

Trump, in a statement on Thursday, the former president said, the jailed January 6th rioters are, quote, being persecuted unfairly, which we might note is exactly the message in the driving force behind the rally tomorrow, claiming that these many hundreds of people who were criminally charged for assaulting the Capitol, damaging it, and, by the way, assaulting police officers, somehow being persecuted unfairly.

By doing so, is the president fanning the flames of violence? RAMSEY: Sure he is. That's why January 6th occurred to begin with. It

was Trump and his cronies that really caused January 6th to happen. There's no question about that. And I think Representative Gonzalez is absolutely right, only I would go a step further, Trump is a stage four cancer on our democracy and is not going to go away any time soon. And so he's going to continue to sow the divisions within our country. It's going to continue.

This isn't going to be over September 18th. And he's not the kind of guy that's going to get into retirement and just go away quietly. He's going to continue this and, unfortunately, keep things all stirred up. And it's going to get worse, not better. And it's going to go beyond Washington, D.C.

SCIUTTO: You, of course, commanded police officers here in Washington. One thing we saw in the wake of January 6th was just the enormous weight on members of the force. You had many describing PTSD, including on CNN's air. You sadly had a number of suicides in the wake of this. And you also had many officers just straight-up leaving the force.

Where is morale today for the Capitol Police and the D.C. police? Do they believe they got the backup that they need in the face of this sort of thing?

RAMSEY: I think morale has improved with the Capitol Police because they got a good leader now. They've got Tom Manger there. I know Tom very well. We've worked together over 20 years. I think that went a long way. And certainly this time they're prepared and they're sharing information.

[09:10:03]

They're actually visiting roll calls. The officers know what's going on and they know what the department is doing.

As far as the Metropolitan Police Department, they, too, have an excellent chief in Bob Contee, who I've known for the last 20 something years.

So I think, you know, people are concerned. Morale is an issue. The trauma that the officers went through on January 6th, coupled with the day to day trauma they go through just as police officers, is something to be concerned about.

HILL: OK.

SCIUTTO: And I know personally, too, folks who have signed up for the Capitol Police in the wake of this, inspired by what they saw there and the need for it.

RAMSEY: Good. Good.

SCIUTTO: And, of course, we hope that's repeated.

Charles Ramsey, thanks so much for joining us this morning. RAMSEY: Thank you.

HILL: Right now the FDA's vaccines advisers are meeting at this hour to determine whether Americans need a booster dose of the COVID vaccine. Why one of the doctors on that panel thinks the decision is being rushed.

Plus, we're hearing straight from General Mark Milley for the first time about his calls to China in the waning days of the Trump presidency. How he is now defending his actions.

SCIUTTO: And we will be live in Del Rio, Texas, where nearly 10,000 migrants are now huddled under a bridge. Details on what led to this surge, that crowd there, and what's being done to address it now.

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[09:15:49]

HILL: This just in.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff defending conversations he had with China in the final months of the Trump presidency. General Mark Milley telling "The Associated Press," the calls, which were intended to assure China the United States was not planning an attack were, quote, perfectly within the duties and responsibilities of his job.

SCIUTTO: CNN's senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt joins us now on this.

And, Alex, I've been speaking to the Pentagon on this as well. They make the point that there were regular conversation between U.S. military officials and their Chinese counterparts expressly for de- confliction, right, de-escalation. But there was particular concern at this time.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: And not just with the Chinese. They've been making the point that these are not just routine calls with the Chinese, but that he does this with a number of different countries. But this is the first time we have heard from General Milley directly since this firestorm erupted.

Of course, much of the focus -- or what we've heard from this new book from Robert -- from Bob Woodward and Robert Costa has centered around Milley and some rather explosive comments that Milley thought that Trump was in serious mental decline and he had these calls with his Chinese counterpart in which he said there would be no kinetic action, no attack against China, and that if there were to be an attack, that he would give them a heads up.

What we're hearing from Milley now is what you mentioned, that he believed these calls with General Li were perfectly in line, within the duties and responsibilities of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. He went on to say and tell "The Associated Press" that these calls are routine, that they are done to reassure both allies and adversaries, in this case in order to ensure strategic stability.

That is what we have also heard from his own office earlier this week. They said that he was trying to convey reassurance in order to maintain that strategic stability. The Pentagon itself, the press secretary, John Kirby, has not commented, nor has the secretary of defense, on these specific parts of the book, but they have tried to cast these types of communication as standard practice.

We have done some of our own reporting. We know from a senior former defense official that it was not just Milley who was having these conversations. The former secretary of defense, Mark Esper, had also reached out to the Chinese through back channels to reassure them.

And we have been told from a defense official that the calls that Milley had weren't just him one on one with General Li. He wasn't taking his cell phone into the corner and making these phone calls. These are calls that are done with other people around him. Fifteen people on these calls, we're told. And that the notes were shared with other agencies and departments.

Milley wouldn't go too much farther in this interview. He said that he was going to save his conversations on the record for when he speaks with lawmakers. That, Erica and Jim, is going to happen on September 28th in front of a Senate Armed Services Committee.

SCIUTTO: Alex Marquardt, at the Pentagon, thanks very much.

Also new this morning, the Georgia criminal investigation into former President Trump's attempts to overturn that state's 2020 election result is quietly moving forward. Don't forget about this.

HILL: Yes, CNN political correspondent Sara Murray joining us now with her new reporting.

So, Sara, what more do we know about where the probe itself stand at this moment?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, you may not have heard much about it since it kind of started with a splash earlier this year, but Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has been quietly working behind the scenes. She's been collecting documents from the Georgia secretary of state's office. Remember, it was the secretary of state that Trump called there and asked him to find, you know, some 11,000 votes so that Trump could win the state of Georgia.

They've also talked to a handful of staffers in that office. You know, a few names you probably wouldn't recognize and also one you would, Gabe Sterling, who is someone who was out front and center during the election, defending the state's election results.

We're also hearing that she is working to build a line of communication with the congressional committees investigating the January 6 insurrection. That's really important if she's able to pull it off. They could get a lot of documents related to White House communications with Georgia officials, communications between Trump and some of his aides like Mark Meadows and Rudy Giuliani. That's what sources are telling us is happening.

We were also, though, able to catch up later this week, our ace producer Jason Morris (ph), earlier this week with Fani Willis.

[09:20:03]

Here's how she describes the state of her investigation right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: What I can tell you is that the Trump investigation is ongoing. As a district attorney, I do not have the right to look the other way on any crime that may have happened in my jurisdiction. And so we have a team of lawyers that is dedicate to that.

QUESTION: Do you think it's possible that you could strike a formal information sharing agreement with the January 6th congressional committees?

WILLIS: Oh, I hope so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: You can see that smile on her face there. Our source tells us that there's already some staff level contact between her office and the congressional committee. But another source says, you know, there's no active participation right yet.

Again, that could be a big deal. I mean it could save her a lot of time to be able to get that kind of information, those kind of documents through a congressional committee rather than having to, you know, fight this out in court.

SCIUTTO: Sara, timing here, right? I mean here we are, many months after the election. You're coming up on a year, right? Do -- you know, when do we expect some sort of resolution to this?

MURRAY: You know --

SCIUTTO: Because the politics are moving forward.

MURRAY: Right. She has basically said, you know, she doesn't feel any rush to do this. And she's laid out a really wide scope of her investigation, saying she not just going to look into what the former president was up to. She wants to know what Rudy Giuliani was up to.

This could take well into next year. She's already, you know, facing some pressure to move a little bit quicker. And when you talk to other law enforcement officials, other former U.S. attorneys in Georgia they say, you know, maybe she should just narrow this and kind of get something done because the longer you go on, the more this gets dragged into politics, people's memories get worse about what may have happened.

SCIUTTO: Yes. MURRAY: So that's the risk to an investigation like this.

SCIUTTO: By the way, you'll be in the midst of the next election, probably, at least the midterms.

MURRAY: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Sara Murray, thanks very much.

HILL: Decision day. The FDI set to -- the FDI -- the FDA, pardon me, set to weigh in on the battle over booster shots. They are meeting right now. One member of the FDA advisory committee, meantime, telling CNN this morning that the decision on boosters is being rushed by the White House. More on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:26:23]

SCIUTTO: Happening right now, the FDA's vaccine adviser committee trying to resolve a question. They're meeting to decide if Americans need booster shots yet to fight the coronavirus. We might have an answer, at least on the recommendation, this afternoon.

But one of the advisers on the panel, Dr. Paul Offit, who we've spoken to many times, he's criticizing the Biden administration's handling so far.

HILL: Yes, he says the decision about boosters is being rushed because the administration wants to hit a September 20th target date to offer a third shot to the general public.

Joining us now to talk about all of this, Dr. Ali Khan. He's dean of the University of Nebraska's Medical Center's College of Public Health.

Dr. Khan, good to see you, as always, this morning.

You know, is Dr. Offit right?

DR. ALI KHAN, DEAN, COLLEGE OF PUBLIC HEALTH AT UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA MEDICAL CENTER: Good morning.

You know, I think we need to agree that this was a self-inflicted distraction by the White House when they announced a date certain, an outcome certain before the full FDA and CDC process. And it's easy to understand, right? We have 100 -- we have 1,000 -- you know, 2,000 people dying a day currently, still about 100,000 people hospitalized. So the focus should be on the 67 million people who have not been vaccinated. They are the ones driving this pandemic, not those who have already been fully vaccinated.

SCIUTTO: That's my question, because is the issue here -- let's set aside the policy question of if and when you order this. Is the issue here a dispute over the data, or is it a dispute over finite resources, right? And that other words, you've got to -- you know, you've got to focus your attention on getting that quarter or so of the population that is truly vaccine resistant before you start adding extra immunity to those who have already been vaccinated. I mean is that the key question here?

KHAN: So, I don't think they're mutually exclusive. We have sufficient vaccine in the United States thanks to the great work by many people.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

KHAN: But the -- it's the issue of what are you focusing on? And we need laser-like focus on 67 million people. That's what's driving this pandemic. You look at the deaths, you look at the hospitalizations. These are the unvaccinated. And, yes, there are a handful of breakthrough infections, but it's the unvaccinated that are driving this pandemic. And we need to think about what are different incentives to get these unvaccinated vaccinated.

HILL: Well, to your -- you know, to your point there, right, if we're looking at about a quarter of the population, there is a chunk of those people, right, who may never get the vaccine. And so to your point on messaging almost, Dr. Khan, you know, does it seem like there's this focus and this push on the booster and, oh, my goodness, we could -- you know, the White House saying, you know, everybody can get it on September 20th because that's a positive that they can focus on, versus these millions of people who have decided they're never going to get the shot.

We've seen every incentive under the book now some disincentives, and there are a lot of people who just aren't going to get it. That's the reality and that headline isn't as pretty.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

KHAN: Right. But I don't think we've sort of maxed out the incentives and disincentives that can be put in place to get people vaccinated. For example, we can do a tax credit for people who are unvaccinated that decreases every month until December. I mean there's -- we know -- and the economists are really good at this. We know incentives work and we know there's other disincentives that do work. For example, mandatory vaccine policy.

So we -- if we want this outbreak to get better and our lives to go back to some resemblance of normal, yes, it will be nice for those who are elderly to get -- and have high risk conditions to get their additional dose. But what we really need is that first dose in that quarter of the population who has not gotten a dose. That's what we need to get these numbers down.

[09:30:02]

SCIUTTO: OK. So, one big chunk of the population that has not been vaccinated are children under 12, right, because it has not gotten that Emergency Use Authorization.