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Mayor: 12,500-Plus Migrants Living Under Texas Bridge; Former DHS Secretary, Jeh Johnson, Discusses Crisis at Southern Border, Infighting Developing in Biden's DHS; CNN: Documents Show Capitol Police Suspected Colleagues Aided Rioters; Enrage France Scales Back U.S. Celebrations Over New Alliance. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 17, 2021 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:34:52]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Today, the crisis at the southern border is escalating. Right now, according to the mayor, more than 12,000 migrants are living under this bridge in Del Rio, Texas, waiting to be processed.

[13:35:04]

The conditions stomach turning as agents struggle to handle this surge.

CNN producer, Michael Roa, is joining us live from the U.S./Mexico border where more migrants are crossing into Del Rio, Texas, right now. Most of them are coming from Haiti.

Michael, what is happening right now?

MICHAEL ROA, CNN PRODUCER: Ana, as you see behind me, this is the Rio Grande where thousands of migrants have been crossing in the last few hours. People is crossing with food, with bags, with ice.

This is the Mexican side of the border. This is Mexico. In the back is the United States, the Del Rio, Texas. And on the right, is the international beach.

Behind that is where more than 13,000 people are sheltering, waiting to be processed by the immigration authorities.

We have seen kids, mothers, pregnant women crossing the border through this part of the river, which is not good. They can walk through to the back, going back and forth.

You know, they come here to buy some food because they are complaining, Ana, that they are not receiving enough food from the United States authorities. We've walked through the streets of this town, and we saw people

purchasing food, purchasing water, purchasing chicken. And as you see in the pockets, they're carrying things back behind the bridge.

They're waiting or the processed. They got a ticket, a number in line from the United States authorities to be processed. But that process, they are telling us here, could take up to three days.

In the meantime, they are coming back and forth for food. Women with little kids, it's been very complicated, very complex. Also today, the weather today, the temperature is up to the 103 degrees -- Ana?

CABRERA: Wow. Thank you so much for giving us a sense of what is happening there.

Michael Roa, appreciate it. We'll let you get to reporting.

And that just shows you that this surge has not stopped.

Joining us now is Jeh Johnson. He served as Homeland Security secretary under President Obama.

Secretary Johnson, it's always a pressure to have you and your insight and expertise on these matters.

The congressman who represents this district is calling this a humanitarian crisis on steroids. What do you call this?

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Ana, this was -- I owned this issue for three years as secretary of Homeland Security. This was by far the most intractable, difficult issue I ever worked on in public life.

If you go to any border congressional district, Lorado, Texas, for example, which is 85 percent Mexican-American, 80 percent or so Democratic, they'll tell you that we should be fair and humane to migrants.

We should support DACA. We should support the DACA population. We should give people an opportunity for a path to citizenship if they've been in this country for years.

But they also want us to control our borders. We have to get control of our borders.

And 200,000 a month is a lot of people. DHS just released the numbers for August. It's 200,000. August is typically a month where it's very low.

And those kinds of numbers and the images you just showed your audience saps the ability. It overwhelms the ability of DHS, the Border Patrol, ICE to cope with the incoming.

It saps the communities on the border. It saps Catholic Charities that are there doing their best to clothe and feed the migrants. And so -- and the recent decision of the U.S. district court in

Washington that DHS and HHS can no longer invoke the public health exception to send people back to Mexico only complicates matters. We have to do something to enhance enforcement.

Longer term, we've got to deal with the situation in Central America. As you and I have discussed previously.

CABRERA: Let's break it down. Obviously, there's an issue at hand that has to be dealt with. Right?

We're seeing the surge continues. We're seeing people continue to cross as we speak into this sort of holding area under that bridge in Del Rio, Texas.

The last check we had, the numbers were 12,500, according to the mayor. And we see more people going as we speak.

So this crisis continues to worsen. And it's continued to worsen since President Biden took office.

You pointed out 200,000 encounters just last month alone. Typically, border crossings go down in the summer months. Not the case this year.

[13:40:03]

What immediate action needs to happen right now? What action could President Biden's secretary, Mayorkas, take?

JOHNSON: Well, first of all, the numbers like that are not necessarily Republican or Democratic numbers. They're not necessarily partisan numbers.

In President Trump's third year of office, there were I think almost a million apprehensions on our southern border. Far larger than anything we saw in the Obama administration.

The people there now ultimately will be processed and released into the interior of the United States simply because DHS, ICE, does not have the capability to hold all those people.

But at some point along the way, we do need to send a strong message to the places where they're coming from that there's a right way and a wrong way to come to the United States.

This is the wrong way. And if you come here, you will be turned back. There are a number of people who are being sent back.

When I was in office, I used to literally go to Central America, greet the incoming airplanes that were bringing people back, bring the cameras so that people in those areas could see that we were actually sending people back.

And messages like that can make a difference.

CABRERA: Both the vice president and DHS secretary have said publicly, do not come. That's had little effect.

Has this administration done enough to deter people from coming?

JOHNSON: I learned in Washington sometimes you have to say things 18 times before anybody listens. And it's a message that has to continue to be repeated. Consistent with our values.

We are a nation of immigrants. We should treat people fairly once they are here.

We should give them an opportunity to make a claim for asylum. We should give people who have been here for years an opportunity to get on a path to citizenship.

But there's a right way and a wrong way to come here. What I said about border districts, I believe, is consistent with the views of the American people at large.

They want us to be fair to these people who are desperate. But they want control of our borders as well.

And we simply have to grapple with this situation. I know it's difficult. But it can be done.

CABRERA: Vice President Harris was supposed to be taking point on this issue from the White House. What's your assessment of how these handled this?

I know you worked hand in hand with the-Vice President Biden, now president. At the time, he was vice president. He was on point. He assigned that to his vice president.

How should she handle this?

JOHNSON: As I understand it, the vice president has been tasked with the diplomatic aspect of this, dealing with Central America, and that requires a sustained engagement by whoever is responsible for this.

You're correct. Vice president -- then-Vice President Biden took a great interest in Central America. I personally traveled with him to Central America.

I personally met with the presidents in that region alongside Vice President Biden. It takes a sustained engagement over and over and over again.

And so that would be my candid advice to anyone in the administration who's trying to grapple with this very, very difficult problem.

CABRERA: Just this week, two senior DHS officials announced their resignations. And one administration official tells CNN there's this sense of tiredness.

And that when it comes to the decision-making process, quote, "They are paralyzed by the bureaucracy."

I know these are complex issues. But has leadership failed here?

JOHNSON: Well, first of all, the turnover is nothing like what we saw in the Trump administration, with acting secretary after acting secretary after acting secretary.

The constant churn in the Trump administration did not help matters.

There's always going to be a certain amount of turnover at the senior- most levels of a department like DHS, Ana, but it's important that there be stability at the very top.

Mayorkas, the current secretary is very experienced. He was deputy secretary when I was secretary. And I know that he is determined to address this issue in a fair, humane, and consistent way.

CABRERA: Would you be doing anything differently if you were secretary right now?

JOHNSON: I have no idea. I'm not secretary now. It's easy for me to sit here and try to analyze this problem. I'm not in the thick of it anymore.

And I just know how extremely difficult this issue is. No matter what you do, you're going to make somebody very angry.

[13:45:00]

And it's an intractable problem as long as the push factors in Central America continue to exist.

The lesson I learned is we can do certain things to enhance enforcement that will cause a sharp and short-term effect on the numbers and drive the numbers of migrants crossing the border down.

But as long as the push factors in Central America, the poverty, violence, corruption, exists, the numbers are always going to revert back to the longer-term trend lines.

That's why it's so important that, through multiple administrations, we stay engaged on trying to address the push factors.

We've done it before in Mexico 20 years ago. It can be done here, too.

CABRERA: Secretary Johnson, thank you so much for your time.

We'll be right back.

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[13:50:36]

CABRERA: We have breaking news out of Washington. CNN has obtained documents that reveal Capitol Police had concerns about fellow officers and their conduct on January 6th.

CNN's Jessica Schneider has been working her sources and joins us live.

What can you tell us, Jessica?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Ana, I reviewed more than a dozen documents involving many cases. And what I found was there are a number of allegations concerning Capitol Police officers that poured into the professional responsibility email tip line in the days after January 6th.

And one I saw was from a concerned lieutenant, that a high-ranking officer who was a vocal Trump supporter, had told his squad not to wear riot gear.

And that the same supervising officer, in this lieutenant's words, seemed to hang back, leaning against a wall of the capitol while that angry mob charged the capitol.

That was according to the complaint that I saw.

Here's a little bit more info from that complaint that was sent in via email.

It said, "I have serious concerns that one of the officers assigned to the Capitol Division may have assisted the insurrection attempts through passive inaction."

They went on to say what they observed, The fact that riot gear wasn't recommended for the officers' squad, also the fact that this officer had sort of leaned against the wall and passively looking at some of the rioters.

It's unclear, though, what investigators concluded in that case or if this supervising officer was disciplined.

Additional documents that I reviewed, it finally gave some details about the disciplinary actions that were recommended by Capitol Police.

Remember, we got word last weekend that six cases had been referred. Well, now we know that includes an officer who allegedly revealed this secret location lawmakers were taken to on January 6th.

He apparently revealed that to a long-time friend in the days following January 6th. And that friend actually called the FBI tip line because he was so concerned, Ana.

So, a lot of these documents, or all of them, I should say, they've been kept under wraps by Capitol Police so far.

But I got a glimpse of these. And it gives us a better clue as to the fact that some of these officers were concerned about their fellow officers in the wake of January 6th for being pro-Trump or Trump sympathizers.

And then other documents that detail some of the disciplinary recommendations that we heard from Capitol Police a few days ago. Now we know it also includes an officer who was taking selfies with some of those pro-Trump rioters.

So a lot coming out that's not being publicly revealed, but I have taken a look at it -- Ana?

CABRERA: I know you're also putting together something for CNN.com where people can read more details.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

CABRERA: Jessica Schneider, thank you for that reporting.

[13:53:15]

France, fired up. And now it's toning down celebrations with the U.S. because of it. What's going on here?

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[13:58:17]

CABRERA: France is now scaling back or canceling two big U.S. celebrations set for this weekend over a secret deal the White House made with Australia and the U.K. involving submarines.

CNN's Kylie Atwood joins us from the State Department.

What's going on here, Kylie?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've got opposition from China to this new coordination, cooperation between the U.S., U.K. and Australia that was expected, right? They obviously feel threatened by this.

These nuclear-powered submarines that Australia is going to get are essentially going to be in China's backyard, allowing the United States and their allies to keep tabs on Chinese aggressions.

But the more surprising thing here is just how robust and aggressive the frustration, the anger has been, particularly coming from U.S. ally France on this.

The foreign minister of France saying that this was a stab in the back, that this was a unilateral move. Even comparing this to something that would have happened during the Trump administration.

Certainly, a blow there being taken at the Biden administration.

Now, we heard Secretary of State Tony Blinken yesterday calling France a vital partner, that they will work with in the Indo-Pacific.

But it's clear here that this is not just about, you know, who's working with who, but this is about U.S. and China and who's on which side. France has repeatedly said they want to work with both.

United States here clearly partnering with Australia and the U.K. to bolster their competition to China -- Ana? CABRERA: Kylie Atwood, thank you so much for that update.

That does it for me on this Friday. Hope you have a wonderful weekend. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. You can find me over the weekend on Twitter, @AnaCabrera.

[13:59:53]

And Victor Blackwell and Alisyn Camerota take over from here.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Welcome to NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good to be with you.

We are just now a few hours away from a crucial FDA decision.