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Defense Department Says Strike Killing Three Adults and Seven Children a Tragic Mistake; U.S. Targeted Wrong Vehicle in Kabul Strike; FDA Vaccine Advisers Reject First Vote on Pfizer Booster. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired September 17, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

GENERAL KENNETH F. MCKENZIE, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: And that's just a hard, harsh fact. And you have to balance those two, force protection of our forces which is supported by Taliban external presence, against the fact that it may prevent some people that you would like to bring out from being able to get to you unmolested. And that's a difficult balance.

I frankly came down that I wanted to protect our forces. And I need that outer boundary. And to that degree, we were able to work together. I have no particular affection for the Taliban. And I don't know that they're doing anything at all for us right now. But those questions are probably better to go to the Department of State along with questions about basing and where we might be able to get closer basing than where we are now. I know all of those things are actively being worked by our diplomats as we speak.

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Thank you, general. Appreciate your time this afternoon. I'll turn it over to you for any last closing comments you might want to make, sir.

MCKENZIE: No, John. I appreciate the opportunity to come on. I appreciate the opportunity to take responsibility for this because I do feel responsible for it. And I appreciate the questions from the media. Thanks, John.

KIRBY: General, thank you very much. OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey John, before you even want to refer to a picture which didn't come up, are their individual pictures of these little blocks in here?

KIRBY: I'll have to check with Central Command, David, I'm sure if they were able to make the graphic, there must be imagery of it. But what resolution they are in and all that, we'll check.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know if it was sent out to the networks or anybody? KIRBY: I don't believe it was. It was designed for this briefing. And we wanted to make sure you had hard copies of it. But we can check with Central Command. That's fair.

So, the Secretary was briefed by General McKenzie this morning at 8:00 on the results of his investigation. And on behalf of the men and women of the Department of Defense, he offers his deepest condolences to surviving family members of those who were killed including Mr. Ahmadi, and to the staff of Nutrition and Education International. Mr. Ahmadi's employer.

And you should have in your inboxes now, a statement that I'm basically paraphrasing from. As the Secretary says in this statement, we apologize and we will endeavor to learn from this horrible mistake. And to that end he has directed a thorough review of the investigation just completed by U.S. Central Command.

And he has asked for this review to consider the degree to which the investigation considered all available context and information. The degree to which accountability measures need to be taken and at what level and the degree to which strike authorities, procedures and processes need to be altered going forward.

And he reiterates that of course no military works harder than we do to avoid civilian casualties. When we reason to believe that we have taken innocent life, we investigate it and if it's true, we acknowledge it. Just like we did today.

But he also notes that we have to work just as hard to prevent recurrence no matter the circumstance, no matter the intelligence stream and certainly no matter the operational pressures under which we labor.

On another matter altogether, today the Secretary approved a request from the Capitol Hill Police Board to provide 100 members of the Washington, D.C. National Guard who will be stationed at the D.C. Armory as a physical security task force this weekend to augment law enforcement over the weekend covering the September 18th demonstration on Capitol Hill.

The D.C. National Guard will join a number of local law enforcement agencies in supporting the Capitol Police. Should the Capitol Police require assistance, they will first utilize local, state and federal law enforcement capabilities before requesting the deployment of the physical security task force.

The task force will only be deployed upon request of the Capitol Police to help protect the U.S. Capitol building and Congressional office buildings by manning building entry points and screening individuals that are seeking access to the building. They will be unarmed.

And with that, I can take some questions. Yes, Travis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had a question about that the Guard and troops going to the Hill. I would say back in January, it became kind of a big issue that there were veterans and I think in a couple cases active-duty troops that were involved in January 6th incident.

KIRBY: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I'm just wondering if there's been any effort to say something to troops ahead of this about if they're thinking about going, what they should consider first and if that's too many levels below to speak from the podium, can you talk at all about what the Secretary might say to the troops who are thinking about going to a rally like this on Saturday?

KIRBY: I don't know of any official communication that's come out from the department at any level specifically to troops who might consider being a part of a protest.

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There are already limits specifically to troops who might consider being a part of protest. There are already limits to what they can do in uniform and clearly political protest is one of those things they're not allowed to do.

But I don't know of any specific, you know, guidance that's been issued. They are American citizens. And in their off-duty hours they are allowed to participate in social events like that. Social- political events like that. But they can't do it in uniform. And obviously should things turn violent then they will be held accountable for any violence that they participate in.

Of course, Travis, nobody wants to see it to get to that point here. And the Secretary has confidence that the men and women of the Department understand the limits and the constraints on their behavior in these kinds of circumstances.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the Secretary satisfied with the level of accountability so far following from this investigation or is he concerned there hasn't been enough accountability following this strike?

KIRBY: I'm not going to characterize it one way or the other right now, Phil. As I said a few minutes ago, he's asked for review of this investigation. And one of the things that he wants the review to do is take a look at accountability and the degree to which accountability measures need to be considered, and if so, at what level. So, I'm not going to get ahead of his decision making on that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has he ruled out firing anybody?

KIRBY: I'm not going to get ahead of the Secretary's decision making. That's why he's asked for a review, so he can get a look. Yes.

MIKE BREST, DEFENSE REPORTER, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Mike Brest for the Washington Examiner. Will there be a review of the first strike at all?

KIRBY: The one in Nangahar?

BREST: Yes.

KIRBY: No, no. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, it's from (INAUDIBLE). Today the joint operations comment announced an agreement, security agreement with U.S. to reduce the combat troops at Ayn al Assad Air Base and airfield by the end of September. The OIR statement didn't mention any reduction of the troop level. Can you

please --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: -- playing to a remarkable press conference here, this was a Defense Department briefing on that deadly drone strike in Kabul, Afghanistan. And the U.S. military now admits that the vehicle that they hit in that drone strike late last month was the wrong vehicle, and that the strike killed as many as ten Afghan civilians, including seven children.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: CNN correspondent Anna Coren is in Hong Kong. Anna's done extensive reporting on the strike, was in a briefing on this earlier today. Anna, soon after this strike on the 29th, there were the reports of potential civilian casualties and then the CNN investigation, others as well. Your reaction to what you're hearing and reporting of potentially how this could be received and how it will resonate in Afghanistan?

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor and Alisyn, at the end of the day, you know, this was the wrong target, the wrong car, you know, wrong intelligence and as a result, ten innocent civilians are killed.

You know, the military was following this car based on intelligence from an ISIS safe house that they had been listening to for 36 hours remembering that there had been that attack on the airport just days before. And they believed that there was going to be an imminent threat posed to the airport. They honed in on this vehicle. This vehicle driven by a 43-year-old aid worker, father of seven, Zamarai Ahmadi, who had gone to this compounds to pick up a laptop.

And from there they followed him for the next eight hours as he picked up colleagues, as he stopped at a busy cafe to pick up some breakfast. As they went to the office, they checked in.

And we've analyzed this CCTV footage, we've spoken to all the colleagues who spend time with him that day. We've spoken to his boss, this U.S. based NGO in California.

Everybody said that Zamarai Ahmadi is a humanitarian. He saves lives. He doesn't kill people. So, they were adamant that they wanted to clear his name.

But for the U.S. military they were watching his car, they had 60 different forms of intelligence, these threat streams coming through to them. And when they saw this car, they followed it.

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Then for the next eight hours until 4:53 when they decided to fire this hellfire missile on a family compound believing that it was just two men. Him and what it turned out to be his son who'd come up to the car. But later, Victor and Alisyn, you know, we learned from U.S. officials with knowledge of this attack that they had seen three children after they had fired that missile.

Well, listening to General McKenzie, the Commander of CENTCOM today, he said that among -- after further analysis, they saw other obscure forms. And as it turned out that they were other children.

So, you have three men, seven children, three of whom were toddlers were the age of two. And you know, we spoke to their families, spoke to their parents after this drone strike, they were going through the wreckage, picking up pieces of ear, a foot, and a nose because their children were in pieces. I mean it was distressing to look at the footage. You can only imagine being on the scene.

These parents just going about their normal lives and suddenly their world has been turned upside down. It is a tragic, you know, set of events that took place, we know why the U.S. military was on such heightened alert but you would have thought that considering they had only been monitoring this car for eight hours before they fired that missile, they would have done it on better intelligence.

CAMEROTA: And Anna, also, one more thing. You know the -- you've done this investigation. CNN has done this investigation. The results of the investigation having spoken to the witnesses and the people all around these families, ours was out three days ago, "The New York Times" came out probably a week ago, "The Washington Post." Do you think that -- I guess I'm just wondering, why did it take the Pentagon so much longer than some of the journalistic outfits to reach this same conclusion?

COREN: Alisyn, I think it's the plain fact they just do not have people on the ground anymore. Talk about this over the horizon warfare, this now going to be the new type of warfare that America conducts in Afghanistan because of what has unfolded in that country.

The intelligence that they were using. Yes, they said they were using some human intelligence but know that they were using, you know, obviously overhead air surveillance, drones, monitoring the situation. We understand there was something like six Reaper drones that were listening in to this ISIS safe house.

So based on that that they thought they had the right target and hence they followed this car for the day. Part of their case when they presented it to us was these heavy packages that were loaded into the car.

When we got access to the CCTV footage, it was clear that Zamarai Ahmadi had been filling up water containers because his family had no access to drinking water. So, he would bring these containers to work. Fill them up with hose, load them into his car and then take them home. This was something that he had been doing for weeks, if not months.

So that was something that the United States based their decision on. They thought they were loading explosives into the car. And then after the attack the military spoke about this significant secondary explosion and that that was proof of explosives whether it be a suicide vest or whether it be, you know, some sort of bomb in the car.

Well, during our investigation, we spoke to two experts who categorically stated that there was no significant secondary explosion from the footage that we had obtained and other media outlets had obtained from the scene.

And from the U.S. official who spoke to us before this press conference with General McKenzie, he now says that what they saw on their infrared cameras surveying this drone strike was in actual fact a blast from this propane gas tank or potentially from vapors from the gas tank in the vehicle exploding.

Once again, it is just tragic what's unfolded. But at the end of the day, ten innocent lives have been taken. You know, this was a family, Victor and Alisyn, who just days before had applied for a P-2 visa to the United States through their U.S. based employer. They wanted to get out of Afghanistan. They wanted to start a new life elsewhere.

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As I say, ten innocent lives tragically lost on the 29th of August in the dying days, the final days of America's war in Afghanistan.

BLACKWELL: Tragic, indeed. Let's broaden the conversation. Anna, stay with us.

And now let's bring in CNN's Nic Robertson live from Kabul. Alex Marquardt at the Pentagon, Jeff Zeleny at the White House, CNN military analyst Colonel Cedric Leighton and CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Colonel, I'm going to come to you. And Anna just outlined how at every step of this operation the U.S. was just wrong from the white Toyota Corolla all the through to that there were no civilian deaths. Your reaction to what you heard General McKenzie admit this afternoon.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Victor, it's obviously the greatest tragedy that could have befallen an operation like this and certainly the family, the Ahmadi family, has paid a very heavy price for this huge mistake.

The real issue I think from an operational standpoint is, you know, how complicated the intelligence picture really is in place like Kabul. There are thousands of white Toyota Corollas. It's very difficult to follow these specific targets in a way that makes sense and can actually lead one to a real ISIS-K suspect for example.

And so, this is I think one of the big issues here, is that we need to understand that this is truly a needle in the haystack kind of operation. Often, we get it right. But there are times like this one where it goes tragically wrong. And that's where, you know, the procedures, the policies, the collection, the intelligence collection that was conducted really need to be looked at in an effort to make sure that this kind of stuff doesn't happen again.

CAMEROTA: Alex Marquardt, isn't this tragic exhibit A, tragic exhibit A, of how the complications going forward I mean without people on the ground. I mean General McKenzie got a question about the over the horizon capabilities. They are obviously fallible. And unless you have intelligence on the ground and people on the ground telling you and pointing out exactly which white Toyota Corolla is the right one, how can they know that this won't happen again.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, General McKenzie was asked about that. And he took issue with that saying that, you know, going forward the, you know, the types of operations that will be carried out like the one that had happened two days prior against ISIS-K targets in Nangahar.

That that was a better example of the kind of over the horizon strike that will take place saying that that's, you know, an offensive operation. The one that took place in Kabul was more of a defensive operation. And so, he tried to split the difference there. But it is obviously, you know, incredibly tragic.

But what was really interesting right out of the gate he was asked about whether this was -- whether he considered this to be an utter and abject failure. And he said that he would not qualify the entire operation in those terms. So, while they were apologizing and saying that major mistakes were made, it was, you know, an intelligence failure, he did not agree that this was an utter failure.

He said that, you know, that there could be -- that the entire thing was not a failure in those terms. You know, another thing that's interesting -- and Anna just hit on it -- is right after the operation, right after the strike, the drone picked up images that led them to believe that there could have been other civilian casualties. And right away CENTCOM said there was a possibility of civilian casualties.

But day later you still had the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs saying that this was a righteous strike. So, for days they did believe, that, you know, despite the fact that there could have been civilian casualties they did take out the target that they intended to.

Obviously that confidence eroded over time over the course of this investigation. Not only did they not get the target intended with some collateral civilian casualties, they didn't get the target at all and ended up with ten civilian casualties all from a single family and none of them at all related to ISIS.

BLACKWELL: Alex, we have that sound from General Milley, we're going to play that in a moment. But I want to go to Jeff Zeleny at the White House first. Should we expect to hear something from the President on this if we haven't already?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Victor, we are learning that President Biden was briefed about this investigation into this tragic civilian death in Afghanistan. He was briefed earlier today we are told. We are still standing by for any type of a statement from the President or the White House.

He in fact is not here. He left earlier this afternoon and is spending the weekend at one of his homes in Delaware. But we know that the President hailed this as an example in the hours after the strike, late last month -- hailed this strike as an example of the over the horizon capability of the U.S. as it pulls out of Afghanistan.

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Well, clearly, that was not the case. The White House has been under increasing pressure in recent days here, you know, to explain more about this strike. They have been saying they are waiting for this Pentagon investigation.

But now that of course it is concluded, this is the President's responsibility. Earlier this week White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki told me in a briefing that, yes, the president takes responsibility for the entire operations.

So, this clearly will be something that I would expect we would be hearing something from the White House. But, more important than that in a broader sense, of course, certainly a tragedy. But what does this mean to the Biden administration's policy on drones going forward?

In fact, he has been a critique of some drone strikes during the previous administration during the Obama administration where there is a long history of simply hitting the wrong target on these drone strikes. This is something he's very well familiar with. But of course, in those, you know, very chaotic days in Afghanistan, this was something that he pointed to as a success of the U.S.'s ability to perform in that situation.

That simply did not happen. So, we will update you when we do hear from the President or the White House. But certainly, we do know he was briefed on this earlier today.

CAMEROTA: Nic Robertson, just to recap for everyone who is just joining us, that was General McKenzie that we just listened to and he came out and said that basically he took responsibility for this tragedy as he called it. And he said he wanted to offer his sincere and profound condolences. Quote, it was a mistake and I offer my sincere apology. Any reaction from allies internationally?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Not hearing from any so far. We've also here in Kabul although it's the middle of the night in looking to see if there's been any response from the Taliban. No response from them.

But I think to give it context, this statement, to give the General's statement context here in Kabul at the moment, it was Friday today, the main Friday prayers, the message in the big mosque behind me that we could hear being broadcast within the mosque and the streets around, was an anti-American message. And it said the problems of this country are as a result of the United States.

We're not hearing Taliban officials go on camera very much at the moment. But I think, in that context, we could expect them to try to use this honest mistake and this acceptance of that mistake for propaganda value. To say, look, we told you so, this was the Americans, don't help them, don't associate with them.

Because the Taliban here still really do not trust the United States and are very afraid of any people here and they know there are a lot of people here still that supported the United States, that worked for them here, and they're very afraid that people like that could work against them in the future.

So, I think the Taliban will try to use this for their own propaganda purposes to paint the United States in an even darker picture than they do already.

BLACKWELL: Gloria, there was this moment during the Senate hearing that Secretary Blinken was questioned by Senator Paul. And he asked him straight out. He asked him, was he an aid worker or an ISIS-K operative? And Secretary Blinken said, I don't know. And then there was this back and forth there. What is the political damage here? Of course, the primary loss here is those ten lives. But the political damage for this administration after the chaotic withdrawal that just ended two weeks ago.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think, first of all, this is just emblematic of the chaotic situation they were in. I mean, the General was talking about, he said there were over 60 high- caliber reports of imminent threats, 60. And they honed in on this one, and they were doing this very quickly, chaos on the ground, over the horizon. And you mentioned that before, Alisyn.

I think there is going to be a complete relook, if you will, at the over-the-horizon operations when you have no one on the ground. There was no one on the ground to say to them, oops, wrong Toyota Corolla. You know, there is another white car somewhere else.

And so, they acted, given what they thought their best intelligence was without anyone to say, no, and I think that is going to have to be looked at. I'm sure members of Congress are going to want to look at it.

But then the question what's your choice, what's your other choice, if you have nobody there? And what is the impact of this?

And so, you know, I think there's going to be a lot of unraveling here that's got to be done. And the American military has taken responsibility. He was very careful not to say the intelligence was terrible or the intelligence was bad.

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I think his point was it was in the moment, and we were in this difficult situation, and it is the best we had. And, you know, all intelligence isn't perfect, but questions will be asked about that as well. And so, you know, I think this is going to be pulled apart in every which way on Capitol Hill, and over at the Pentagon and at the White House. BLACKWELL: All right, Gloria, everyone, thank you, stay with us. We've

got to get to other breaking news now.

CAMEROTA: Yes, just moments ago, the FDA Advisory Committee that we told you about voted against approval of the booster shot for those who received the Pfizer vaccine. Sanjay Gupta has just parachuted in to talk to us. Sanjay, this is not I think what we were expecting.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, it wasn't. I mean some were expecting it, I think that for some time people have been saying, look, the data is not there even though we heard this from the White House and we heard that boosters would be recommended for everyone starting September 20th.

Many people have been saying since that announcement, is the data there specifically? Let me show you quickly what the specific question was that they were voting on. Basically, saying, you know, is there enough data around safety and efficacy to recommend a third shot, a booster shot for people over the age of 16, six months after they've received their first shot?

So, that's the way they sort of posed it. As you know, there's a vote. The vote was no. And now they're basically discussing again.

So, the conversation continues. And I think what they're going to say is, look, OK, so maybe not 16 years and older. Is there a more appropriate age here? I think that's really what it's going to be.

If you looked at the data, maybe you got some evidence that there was benefit in people who were over 60 years old, for example. But they're not recommending this for the general population. That's the bottom line.

BLACKWELL: You make a good point here, Sanjay, is that that was one specific question. It wasn't, are boosters good or bad? It was for a specific question. That question could be amended to a specific group. Could that happen today?

GUPTA: Yes, I think that can happen today. In fact, the conversation's happening now. They may say, OK, we're going to change the question and essentially have a second vote on this.

But, you know, it is contentious. You know, I mean even some of the data that's being presented itself is being questioned. Pfizer presented data saying the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes down in the 90 percent range, mid-90 percent range down to 58 percent. And one of the people on the committee said we've examined

the data, and the way that we read it, it shows that it's pretty stable effectiveness at 93 percent.

So why is there such different numbers here? So, they're really getting at some of the crux of actually looking at the data. So, yes, I think ultimately a different age may happen, but just how the whole data is being presented is also being questioned at this meeting.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, it's fascinating to just watch this debate in realtime. I mean I think that for people who thought that this was going to be some sort of rubber stamp, that's not what's happening as you're telling us with this breaking news. But wasn't it even Dr. Fauci who seemed to telegraph that, yes, boosters would be approved?

GUPTA: Yes, he did. I mean I think you know and we'll still see what happens with this next vote. Ultimately, they may be approved again for a certain age group. But I think the impression a lot of people were left with after the White House task force announced that boosters were coming and starting September 20th, even putting a date on it eight months after you get your first shots, you should get a booster. The impression I think people were left with is that means everybody, right. Older, vulnerable, or even younger and healthy.

And I think what the FDA is now saying is that for younger and healthy people, you haven't really made the case for boosters. They may say that across the board, although we'll see what the second vote shows. But it's confusing for people. And I can understand why because this seemed pre-ordained a few weeks ago and now we're hearing a different message from the FDA.

BLACKWELL: So, Sanjay, I'm just getting from my producer who just told me that the next vote is for those 65 and older. So just as you suggested that that would be -- give it to me again? 60 or 65 and older. So, some clarity on the specific age and older. But there will be seniors who will be part of the next group.

As you said not a rubber stamp. This is supposed to roll out on the 20th. So, in just a couple of days the White House said that this Pfizer booster campaign was going to roll out. So, we'll see what that final vote is. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much, Sanjay. Thanks for explaining all of this. We've had a lot of breaking news on every front here today.

BLACKWELL: Yes, that tragic news that ten innocent civilians killed in Afghanistan.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.

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